35177 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

That's a good way to put it, Jenovan. It is hidden away, and had my silly mage not been so gun-shy after being publicly dumped, I would've never found out about the second offering unless I read about it. (Or played through again, making different choices)

It is hidden, and in many ways, completely unnecessary.  He does ask for a promise of the future no matter what.  It's a beautiful dialog, though.  I also think, perhaps, if I had been romancing Zevran the entire game I may have missed it, my first game.  I can give RP reasons all I want in my subsequent games, but knowing how it ends is most likely my driving force.  And perhaps had I not chosen, "Oh, does this mean we're married in Antiva," that I would have accepted it as well.  Truthfully, his answer to that stung.

I do like, how the first time he offers it, he's unwilling to say it's a token of affection, but the second time, he's just given up, and he's not only willing to admit it, but is willing to attach even deeper significance on it. 

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
Eeeep!  I did not mean to imply that at ALL!  I don't think the way I force issues is a good thing; it's one of my character flaws, really. Sorry if it seemed I was saying ANY of those things about you.  That never even crossed my mind.

Nuuu! I just stated how I really am, those are my weapons - sometimes good thing, sometimes bad thing. I also don't think that your "character flaw" is really a flaw, it could be actually fair way to resolve situation, why not?
This exchange helps me understand how differently people can take dialogues due to personality differences. That's fascinating, really.

ejoslin wrote...
Poor guy, no matter what!  But he ends up SO happy no matter what you do. 

And that is the most important thing! <3<3<3

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: What Sabriana said.  You'd think with English being my native tongue, I'd be better at communicating in it!

Mine is not, so I excuse in advance that I might misunderstand and misinterpret and misexpress. 

[ejoslin]

Another non-native speaker who fooled me. Really, your written English is better than mine.

[Ramante]

Interesting, an entire discussion about the earring/proposal...

I'll share my thoughts when I get back from the hospital. Assuming they let me go after an hour or so, I practically live there. x.x'



@Sabriana, I managed to catch my bus. Though I wish I hadn't, school was really boring today. I also found out I failed the test I had 2 weeks ago, I had a 5.05 and I needed a 5.5... A well, there were people who managed to get a 2.3, so I did pretty well. xD

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

I do like, how the first time he offers it, he's unwilling to say it's a token of affection, but the second time, he's just given up, and he's not only willing to admit it, but is willing to attach even deeper significance on it. 

I do think this kinda points that you weren't being too cruel by refusing it.  His second offer isn't like... you're dragging it out of him.  You want to talk to him about why he seems so off, and then he offers the earring again; he's thought about what you said, what you wanted, and how he really felt, and seems ready to come to terms with that.  He doesn't even brush off the idea of a proposal.  You've pushed him to open himself a little, and he throws the door wide open.

(It IS similar to Alistair's or Leliana's hardening, actually... in both of those cases, too, you have to have a second conversation to confirm what you pushed them towards.  )

[jenovan]

Ramante wrote...

Interesting, an entire discussion about the earring/proposal...
I'll share my thoughts when I get back from the hospital. Assuming they let me go after an hour or so, I practically live there. x.x'

Ack!  I hope everything goes well! 

[ejoslin]

Ramante {hugs}

[Minaleth]

Sabriana wrote...
My PC isn't so much refusing the gift as such, she wants to give him the opportunity to see that she cares deeply for him. He means something to her, and therefore won't accept the earring if it is meaningless to  him. It seems to have an impact because he realizes that he his wanted, that she does see him as more as a pleasant diversion, and the earring is offered again, this time with his committment.

There are more levels of this situation -
(1) PC really refuses a gift this can't be denied - possible problem for me, 
(2) doing so PC actually pushes Zevran into admitting his feelings - possible problem again; or PC is hinting that she wishes it means more - depends how you see it, 
(3) he eventually proposes again and that results in desired happy ending on both sides - in fact you were right all the time to refuse it.

My analysis - if PC is interested in commitment - PC either has some RP reasons to refuse (very imaginable), or PC is using not nice means for greater good - that is quite manipulative (I read there blackmail, mind games, 'I know best what is good for you' approach), but it has good result. The idea that it actually means "let him know that he is wanted" is very alien to me, but I can see that many people probably read it this way.

Please again - there is no way I hint that anyone is bad person because of different view on this. I respect everyones points.

Modifié par Minaleth, 15 mars 2010 - 02:01 .

[Sabriana]

Yeh, that's sort of what my (silly) mage went through. All game long she caters to Alistair to be rewarded by being dumped in public. So Zevran comes in to pick up the pieces. Romance commences. Taliesen defeated.
Here comes the earring.
Mage: "Does that mean we are married in Antiva?"

Zevran: 'laughs' "I hope not."

Mage: 'cringes inwardly, feels hurt, gets very very cautious' "So it's not a token of affection?"

Zevran: "Look, just take it. It's meant a lot to me, but so have... so has what we have done."

Mage: 'cringes some more, another cop-out? More being dumped? She loves him, and now being left on the floor looms again' "I'll only take it if it means something."

Zevran: "You are a very frustrating woman. You don't want the earring you don't get it" 'angry-face'

Mage: 'is crushed'.

She's a bit unsure how it will continue, but then she steels herself and asks him to the tent. She's turned down, with more 'angry-face' at the end. Crushed again. Mopes around. Finally she gets some guts and asks him about it. She is determined not to push him, but she wants some answers. She loves him, after all.

Mage: "Are you saying you're in love with me?" 'heart is pumping, chest is constricted'

Zevran: "I grew up amongst those who sold the illusion of love. How should I know what it is? Etc...."

Mage: 'is afraid, very afraid' "Maybe it would be better for you if we stopped this."

Zevran: "Only if there is no future, etc..."

Mage: "I don't know, but I know how I feel about you." 'is happy'

Zevran: "I still have the earring. Please take it as a token of affection."

Mage: "That sounds like a proposal" 'forgets to breathe'

Zevran: "Only if you wish it"

Mage: "Squeeeee" :wub:

[Minaleth]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I do like, how the first time he offers it, he's unwilling to say it's a token of affection, but the second time, he's just given up, and he's not only willing to admit it, but is willing to attach even deeper significance on it.

I do think this kinda points that you weren't being too cruel by refusing it.  His second offer isn't like... you're dragging it out of him.  You want to talk to him about why he seems so off, and then he offers the earring again; he's thought about what you said, what you wanted, and how he really felt, and seems ready to come to terms with that.  He doesn't even brush off the idea of a proposal.  You've pushed him to open himself a little, and he throws the door wide open.

This is very sweet interpretation! You go on and I might even change my mind about that situation ;p (I already did quite a bit.)

[BlastedLands]

Sabriana wrote...



Everyone: "Squeeeee" :wub:

[ejoslin]

Hahahaha, Sabriana, we are SO much alike. That is exactly what happened in my game. Down to the dialog choices.



I think being dumped by Alistair and not knowing what's going to happen in the game puts a whole different dynamic on it. In a male playthrough, you would approach it far differently I would imagine.

[barkingM1]

Epic Archdemon battle screenies, CZ!

Edited because of trying to catch up on all the posts:   Sabriana, mages must fall into the same Alistair/Zev dynamic - that's almost exactly how it went for my Nerynn.  Except she was already starting to fall for Zev when A dumped her, so wasn't quite as heartbroken as she let on .

Modifié par barkingM1, 15 mars 2010 - 02:11 .

[Minaleth]

Hahahaha, Sabriana, we are SO much alike. That is exactly what happened in my game. Down to the dialog choices.

Sometimes I wish my first mage was not such a smart ass and gave Alistair a chance. The story is expecting you fall for this, I think it's well done and surprising aspect.

[jenovan]

Yes -- it really seems that one of the planned/expected paths is for a female warden to fall for Alistair, and very possibly be dumped because of duty... and just maybe rebound onto Zevran. Actually, it's a good way to expose Zevran to those who may have not put much thought into him, which is a good thing. XD But yeah... Alistair seems like a bit of a trap.

[Sabriana]

It really seems that way, Minaleth, the story really is geared toward shock and surprise for non noble PCs romancing the future King. Alistair is very charming, the romance is sweet at the beginning. My mage did turn the Zevran romance on somehow, but it must have been late in the game because there never was a forced choice by either one. So Zevran playing cavalry and coming to the rescue was a surprise. A very pleasant one.

I call my mage silly, but it was an endearing play-through, really. But the silly girl stubbornly refused to see the writing on the wall with regards to her romance with Alistair. She (and I) was quite shocked at Alistair's outburst at the Landsmeet, she wanted to heed the older and wiser Grey Warden's advice. So she let him kill Loghain, only to be dumped almost immediately afterward. In public. It was a piece of great writing, Ejoslin, I agree. Both my PC and I were shocked.

Your mage was smarter than mine, Barking



lol @ Haerja

[jenovan]

Minaleth wrote...

jenovan wrote...

I do think this kinda points that you weren't being too cruel by refusing it.  His second offer isn't like... you're dragging it out of him.  You want to talk to him about why he seems so off, and then he offers the earring again; he's thought about what you said, what you wanted, and how he really felt, and seems ready to come to terms with that.  He doesn't even brush off the idea of a proposal.  You've pushed him to open himself a little, and he throws the door wide open.

This is very sweet interpretation! You go on and I might even change my mind about that situation ;p (I already did quite a bit.)

Hehe, that's one of the things I love about this thread -- not only do we stay friendly while presenting our differing views, we may end up with our minds happily changed. 

[Sabriana]

jenovan wrote...

Yes -- it really seems that one of the planned/expected paths is for a female warden to fall for Alistair, and very possibly be dumped because of duty... and just maybe rebound onto Zevran. Actually, it's a good way to expose Zevran to those who may have not put much thought into him, which is a good thing. XD But yeah... Alistair seems like a bit of a trap.

Yeah. We should run up and warn all the new femWardens (non-noble). "Watch out. It's a trap. It's a trap!":bandit:

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

Minaleth wrote...

jenovan wrote...

I do think this kinda points that you weren't being too cruel by refusing it.  His second offer isn't like... you're dragging it out of him.  You want to talk to him about why he seems so off, and then he offers the earring again; he's thought about what you said, what you wanted, and how he really felt, and seems ready to come to terms with that.  He doesn't even brush off the idea of a proposal.  You've pushed him to open himself a little, and he throws the door wide open.

This is very sweet interpretation! You go on and I might even change my mind about that situation ;p (I already did quite a bit.)

Hehe, that's one of the things I love about this thread -- not only do we stay friendly while presenting our differing views, we may end up with our minds happily changed. 

Hahaha, yes, there's been more than once someone has said, "But ejoslin, you said THIS earlier," and I'm like, well, but I changed my mind!  It's what is great about this thread.  I never would have explored half of this stuff or even understood half of it without the discussion here.

Edit: yes yes yes! oh yes!

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 02:37 .

[BlastedLands]

Sabriana wrote...

jenovan wrote...

Yes -- it really seems that one of the planned/expected paths is for a female warden to fall for Alistair, and very possibly be dumped because of duty... and just maybe rebound onto Zevran. Actually, it's a good way to expose Zevran to those who may have not put much thought into him, which is a good thing. XD But yeah... Alistair seems like a bit of a trap.

Yeah. We should run up and warn all the new femWardens (non-noble). "Watch out. It's a trap. It's a trap!":bandit:

har har. i never have that problem. i get a crazy witch instead:unsure:

[Sannox]

It's interesting that people are saying that they are influenced by real life.   I'm sure that I am too.   In real life, I can be direct, but I really don't think I would push a reluctant (but obviously loving) guy for a confession of love.  I'd have to be able to put my feelings on the line first.   It's not fair otherwise.  Real life lover's arguments - no, I can't bear them. I can't bear to hurt my boyfriend either, or he me.   So we never argue.   I'm sure people find us completely sickening.  And I'm sure that my relationship influences my feelings about the in-game romance .  

My instinct would be to confess something of what I felt, rather than to push the guy to say what he felt.   Something like 'Thank you.  It means a lot to me', would be kind enough.

You see, he already has confessed quite a lot in bits and pieces.  And although he might have problems expressing what he feels verbally, he has no problems showing it OR with commitment.   He's just told you that he'll be with you forever, if you want him.   There's no illusion that he's just a f---buddy by that point, nor does he pretend it.   It's obvious that that the earring does mean something to him.  I agree with Minaleth here - both of you know that there is something deeper going on.   Neither of you are quite ready to speak about it, apparently (the dialogue options don't give you that choice). 

I would be fine with the 'only if it means something' option, if he didn't get upset.  It's one of the closest you get to actually confessing what you feel first, even though it comes out as insisting he tells you first. 

The 'married in Antiva' option, comes across as a joke, I think, and he takes it as such.  I think it's obvious that it doesn't mean you're married in Antiva, so saying it is making light of the offer a little (although I don't think it's a bad option either). 

I played again with my male elf and ... we all got killed.   So I reloaded and changed the difficulty settings (I forgot that it was actually a challenging fight) and played around.  I tried out the option of saying something like 'Fine.  I'll kill you all' to Taliesin.   I thought I was saying I'd kill all the Crows, but Zevran thinks you mean that you'll kill him as well, and says something like 'No need.  I didn't come here to betray you'.   I was curious to see if you get the earring offer after that, but yes, you do get the offer, even if you'd threatened to kill him minutes before.    It was quite a touching option, although it would need a PC who was oblivious enough to think he would betray her/him.

Modifié par Sannox, 15 mars 2010 - 02:46 .

[jenovan]

Haerja wrote...

har har. i never have that problem. i get a crazy witch instead:unsure:

Morrigan's also a bit of a trap for the male PC.   Unless she successfully scares you off -- which is probably much more likely than with Alistair! XD

(Heh, playing as a super nice guy and then immediately going back and playing as a selfish jerk is an interesting contrast.  If Morrigan falls in love, she will try to push the PC away, and my mage will probably take her up on that.  "You want it that way? Fine."  No digging for deeper feelings for him.. )

[BlastedLands]

jenovan wrote...


Morrigan's also a bit of a trap for the male PC.   Unless she successfully scares you off -- which is probably much more likely than with Alistair! XD

that's what i was thinking^_^

[ejoslin]

Sannox, there's an alternative dialog with Alistair which is basically the same, and Alistair DOES joke it off, but in a non-brutal way. Alistair is definitely playful and loving there -- Zevran, I don't think he is.

And I think we all agree that something deeper is going on. I've not once seen anyone say anything different.

Playing around with various dialogs is always interesting. There is so much there that is not seen unless you do. If you want to hear Zevran say he loves the warden? Break up with him while he's in love. It's the only time you get those words, when he calls him/her "my love." It's horrible, breakups with him, I don't care if you read the transcripts -- the voice acting is so incredible.  I warn you NOT to do it unless you want to feel horrible for hours afterwards!

I also think there are differences between the male and the female romances interact. The dialog differences are subtle, but they're enough that it would give a lot of these talks a different feeling entirely.

Edit: I did.  I almost did more too, but I'm trying to get through Orzammar!  And clean my house!

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 02:52 .

[Sabriana]

Haerja wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

jenovan wrote...

Yes -- it really seems that one of the planned/expected paths is for a female warden to fall for Alistair, and very possibly be dumped because of duty... and just maybe rebound onto Zevran. Actually, it's a good way to expose Zevran to those who may have not put much thought into him, which is a good thing. XD But yeah... Alistair seems like a bit of a trap.

Yeah. We should run up and warn all the new femWardens (non-noble). "Watch out. It's a trap. It's a trap!":bandit:

har har. i never have that problem. i get a crazy witch instead:unsure:

But...but what about Leliana?
*ducks*

I've always wondered how a PC would feel about Leliana. Zevran, well, the Warden knows he's an assassin, and s/he also knows that he was after her/his hide. But doesn't Leliana 'fess up much later on? Gah! I so wish I wouldn't get so bored playing a maleWarden. Or that Leliana wouldn't set off my "don't want" alert as a femWarden.

It might be an interesting experience to play through a Leliana romance, but my fems can't resist Zevran, and I can't play a man. It feels weird. Besides, he most likely would also end up with Zevran.