35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Sresla]

Creature 1 wrote...
I should attach this to my signature!  

I got to use it in this thread the other day. Page 2 is full of lulz.

[Charsen]

ejoslin wrote...
Hmmmmmm.  About the proposal -- I believe Zevran was proposing.  Here's why (if you're strong, you can do this, if not, you'll have to trust me). After asking him if it's a proposal, if he says, "Not unless you wish it," tell him, "No, that's too much." His reaction, at least for me, erased ANY doubt that Zevran meant what he said as a proposal.  I will give you a hint, it starts with something like, "Then what you and I feel for each other is not enough?"  Then it gets even worse. 
Edit: I've only done this twice, and it's been awhile, and I'm not sure I can do it again to get exact wording. 

Zevran: Then what we feel is not enough, is it?
VOcomment: disappointed

Zevran: I knew I was being foolish and now I am proven correct. This is really for the best, I think.
VOcomment: crestfallen -- but trying to make it sound like he doesn't care

Player: We don't need to end this, Zevran.
Zevran: I do.
VOComment: there should be some hesitancy when he says this -- the player might not need to end this, but he does. And he can't just blurt it out. This is an awkward thing to have to tell someone.

Zevran: Come. Let us return to matters at hand. There is much for you to do... Grey Warden.
VOComment: grim

*was there doing some dialog tree checks anyway*

edit: seriously annoyed by the lost return lines when copy/pasting, sorry for the text block

Modifié par Charsen, 15 mars 2010 - 05:12 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: I've only done this twice, and it's been awhile, and I'm not sure I can do it again to get exact wording. 

I don't remember exact wording, either, but it's definitely bad.  He ends on a bitter, business-like note where he says something like "let us get back to your task, Warden."  Gah!

Now with our toolset knowledge (thank you, oh denizens of the toolset), we also know that he is saying "not unless you wish it to be" with the subtext "hopeful."

[ejoslin]

Charsen, could you possibly look up the VO comments of the after tent scene? I have my own thoughts about some of those, but I'm probably wrong (I'm so good at being wrong).  *grin* please please pretty please?  *sigh* Kicking my computer again

Edit: Yes, it's his reaction that convinced me before even knowing the "hopeful" in the VO section that it was a proposal.  Had he just been deeply committed, he would have been fine with it not quite going to THAT point.  And thank you so much for putting that up.  The actually voice and face there -- ugh.  Just ugh.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 05:13 .

[Swifty]

jenovan wrote...

Swifty wrote...

I personally find there are cultural differences in how one percieves certain characters in the game.

I don't know if the writer's intended this or realized this and some of that has caused writing oversights such as very few NPC's talk about the Orlesians in negative terms and they ruled brutally less than 30 years before. Those kind of colonialist scars don't heal in 30 years. Or how that impacts on Arl Eamon's marriage and ithe general perception of Orlesians or the general treatment of elves as a brutalized minority. I was just waiting for some NPC all game to say, "And whaddya YOU want ya pointy-eared piece of crap?" or some such--yet it never happened even with drunks in the taverns.

Not once do the elves talk about genocide, either and considering the Great March or whatever it was called where they were crusaded against and nearly wiped out--you'd think it would be a topic of bitterness, mistrust and conversation far beyond a few campfire tales.

Hmm, I wonder if some of that is just a technical decision... there's only so much incidental gossip/conversation to be put in a game, and they've established that history pretty well... maybe the developers didn't feel like they needed to put the resources in to dwell on it heavily.

(As for anti-Orlesian feelings, as well as political intrigue in general, you might want to check out the Awakenings Penny Arcade comic if you haven't.  XD)

Hmm... there are plenty of unpleasant things said to at least a male city elf in passing.  Goldanna is a great example.. what she said to my elf actually made ME angry! XD  There's the ferryman at the tower -- he says some really racist stuff without even thinking about it, a sign of a problem ingrained in society... there are a few bits here and there.  Probably not as many as there would realistically be, sure, but yeah, again, that would get down to recording different dialogue for so many NPCs... XD

(LOL, also, I'd probably be wary of insulting an elf openly carrying weapons, personally. )

Well yeah on the weapons, but I suspect since the elves are subjegated it would be a matter of "oh yeah, just another squishy elf" which is Sten's POV. I don't think the humans and particularly any armed forces [templars, guards etc] would take them seriously.

In reality at a landsmeet situation it would just be a great deal of eyerolling and "what does this idiot want?" sort of attitude towards elves.

And you may be right about the technological resources as well in reference to the Orlesians. Hopefully that's the reason why the Orlesian and elf problems aren't as prevelent as they should be. Cuz coming from a tri-cultured background I can assure you 30 years in *nothing* is erased in the memories of cuture of people who have lived through it.

Would have been realistic to have at least a bar punch up over it though:devil:

[Charsen]

ejoslin wrote...

Charsen, could you possibly look up the VO comments of the after tent scene? I have my own thoughts about some of those, but I'm probably wrong (I'm so good at being wrong).  *grin* please please pretty please?  *sigh* Kicking my computer again

Edit: Yes, it's his reaction that convinced me before even knowing the "hopeful" in the VO section that it was a proposal.  Had he just been deeply committed, he would have been fine with it not quite going to THAT point.  And thank you so much for putting that up.  The actually voice and face there -- ugh.  Just ugh.

Any ones in particular? Here are some I grabbed:

Zevran: See? I knew this would happen eventually. I should have warned you right from the moment you refused to kill me. It was inevitable.
VOcomment: he is referring to the fact that they have just had sex, teasingly making it sound like some inevitability

Zevran: I was raised to take my pleasures where they could be found, for they do not come very often. I shall ask nothing more of you than you are willing to give.
VOcomment: speaking plainly but with affection

Zevran: I was born of a **** and bred as an assassin. All I know is of pleasure and death. What room is there in these things for love?
VOcomment: amused by the question

Player: Now we go on as before.
Zevran: Chuckles Why should anything change?
VOcomment: teasing -- this is not his opinion but rather his interpretation of what the player said

Modifié par Charsen, 15 mars 2010 - 05:18 .

[Addai]

Swifty wrote...
In reality at a landsmeet situation it would just be a great deal of eyerolling and "what does this idiot want?" sort of attitude towards elves.

The Landsmeet is definitely artificially evened out so that it runs pretty much the same no matter who your PC is.  There should not only be more race-specific stuff, there should also IMO be much more regarding the Couslands in the case of a HN character.  I get the feeling that it is flattened and simplified for the same reason that the ending dialogues and epilogues have glitches- release deadlines?

I do agree with you that more could be said about the Orlesians, especially considering that the nobles who are left standing are the ones who either fought the Orlesians or who were granted their titles in place of others who were turncoats.  The codex does say that many Fereldans still remember the occupation.  However, if you step back and look at the game from a meta perspective, the very fact that the kingdom can dissolve into civil war so easily, and that Loghain can win the support that he is able to, is a testament to that memory of the Orlesian occupation.  There is also the fact that a much greater and more immediate threat looms, at least for those who aren't in denial- the Blight.  A threat that can wipe out humanity entirely makes the Orlesians look like small potatoes.

[ejoslin]

Charsen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Charsen, could you possibly look up the VO comments of the after tent scene? I have my own thoughts about some of those, but I'm probably wrong (I'm so good at being wrong).  *grin* please please pretty please?  *sigh* Kicking my computer again

Edit: Yes, it's his reaction that convinced me before even knowing the "hopeful" in the VO section that it was a proposal.  Had he just been deeply committed, he would have been fine with it not quite going to THAT point.  And thank you so much for putting that up.  The actually voice and face there -- ugh.  Just ugh.

Any ones in particular? Here are some I grabbed:

Zevran: See? I knew this would happen eventually. I should have warned you right from the moment you refused to kill me. It was inevitable.
VOcomment: he is referring to the fact that they have just had sex, teasingly making it sound like some inevitability

Zevran: I was raised to take my pleasures where they could be found, for they do not come very often. I shall ask nothing more of you than you are willing to give.
VOcomment: speaking plainly but with affection

Zevran: I was born of a **** and bred as an assassin. All I know is of pleasure and death. What room is there in these things for love?
VOcomment: amused by the question

Player: Now we go on as before.
Zevran: Chuckles Why should anything change?
VOcomment: teasing -- this is not his opinion but rather his interpretation of what the player said

Thank you so much!  AMUSED!   Affection.  Teasing, especially the part that that's not his opinion.  Hmmmmm.  Gah, that is spot on to what I was thinking.

Do you have the ones where the warden asks him if it's all part of his plan?

OMG, thank you so much for these.  I'm so glad to know that I'm not crazy with the way I see things.  Well, not THAT crazy . . .

[Sabriana]

Charsen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Charsen, could you possibly look up the VO comments of the after tent scene? I have my own thoughts about some of those, but I'm probably wrong (I'm so good at being wrong).  *grin* please please pretty please?  *sigh* Kicking my computer again

Edit: Yes, it's his reaction that convinced me before even knowing the "hopeful" in the VO section that it was a proposal.  Had he just been deeply committed, he would have been fine with it not quite going to THAT point.  And thank you so much for putting that up.  The actually voice and face there -- ugh.  Just ugh.

Any ones in particular? Here are some I grabbed:

Zevran: See? I knew this would happen eventually. I should have warned you right from the moment you refused to kill me. It was inevitable.
VOcomment: he is referring to the fact that they have just had sex, teasingly making it sound like some inevitability

Zevran: I was raised to take my pleasures where they could be found, for they do not come very often. I shall ask nothing more of you than you are willing to give.
VOcomment: speaking plainly but with affection

Zevran: I was born of a **** and bred as an assassin. All I know is of pleasure and death. What room is there in these things for love?
VOcomment: amused by the question

Player: Now we go on as before.
Zevran: Chuckles Why should anything change?
VOcomment: teasing -- this is not his opinion but rather his interpretation of what the player said

I do believe that is a part where the VA improvised. I don't know, but to me he sounds forceful, and a bit angry. Perhaps even trying to reinforce his own believes.

*Waits to be educated*

[jenovan]

Ahh, have to agree about the Landsmeet -- given how politics just are, and that these are nobles, I had expected a much, much cooler reception for my elf.  Even though some of the banns support the Wardens, there are certainly plenty of other lords and ladies there who could at least make snide comments for flavor.  

But, as Addai says, maybe everyone's able to suck it up in the face of the Blight.  Maybe.

Charsen wrote...


Zevran: I was born of a **** and bred as an assassin. All I know is of pleasure and death. What room is there in these things for love?
VOcomment: amused by the question

Wow... really?  I don't know about anyone else, but I definitely don't get "amused" from his delivery there -- between his voice and his agitated pacing, he always came off as irked and a little defensive (as in, he doesn't want to talk or even think about it).

I could imagine him trying to laugh it off, too, but that's definitely not what I heard in-game.

Edit: LOL, apparently I am not alone!

Modifié par jenovan, 15 mars 2010 - 05:30 .

[Creature 1]

Yes, I got affronted out of that, not amused. Perhaps amused in the sense that he thinks it's ridiculous, but also offended because he thinks the PC is being naive and expects him to be naive as well.

[Addai]

When you get a chance, Charsen, I am interested in Zevran's thoughts in the early dialogues with the Warden, as well, where he talks about being an assassin and his various missions. Is he trying to shock you? Test you? Does he expect condemnation?

In fact, could you quit your job and just transcribe toolset data for us full-time? K thanx. LOL

Modifié par Addai67, 15 mars 2010 - 05:33 .

[Charsen]

I agree; it was definitely not "amused" to my ears.

[Creature 1]

Addai67 wrote...
In fact, could you quit your job and just transcribe toolset data for us full-time? K thanx. LOL

[ejoslin]

Nono, amused by the QUESTION, not amused at the feelings -- I bet no one had EVER asked him about love before. This is brand new to him, something that never occurred to him before.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 05:35 .

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

When you get a chance, Charsen, I am interested in Zevran's thoughts in the early dialogues with the Warden, as well, where he talks about being an assassin and his various missions. Is he trying to shock you? Test you? Does he expect condemnation?

In fact, could you quit your job and just transcribe toolset data for us full-time? K thanx. LOL

Yeah! Seconded. Who needs a diploma anyway? Masters degrees are so overrated.

[Charsen]

Addai67 wrote...

When you get a chance, Charsen, I am interested in Zevran's thoughts in the early dialogues with the Warden, as well, where he talks about being an assassin and his various missions. Is he trying to shock you? Test you? Does he expect condemnation?

In fact, could you quit your job and just transcribe toolset data for us full-time? K thanx. LOL

lol, it's no prob. usually it's a pretty quick search - can you tell me approximately what line you are talking about? Either the player's line or zevran's? do you mean before he's officially recruited?

[Addai]

No, I mean for instance the dialogue where you ask him if he enjoys being an assassin, or those dialogues about his adventures on the basis of which some conclude he's a nasty rapist fiend and never talk to him again.

[Swifty]

Addai67 wrote...

Swifty wrote...
In reality at a landsmeet situation it would just be a great deal of eyerolling and "what does this idiot want?" sort of attitude towards elves.

The Landsmeet is definitely artificially evened out so that it runs pretty much the same no matter who your PC is.  There should not only be more race-specific stuff, there should also IMO be much more regarding the Couslands in the case of a HN character.  I get the feeling that it is flattened and simplified for the same reason that the ending dialogues and epilogues have glitches- release deadlines?

I do agree with you that more could be said about the Orlesians, especially considering that the nobles who are left standing are the ones who either fought the Orlesians or who were granted their titles in place of others who were turncoats.  The codex does say that many Fereldans still remember the occupation.  However, if you step back and look at the game from a meta perspective, the very fact that the kingdom can dissolve into civil war so easily, and that Loghain can win the support that he is able to, is a testament to that memory of the Orlesian occupation.  There is also the fact that a much greater and more immediate threat looms, at least for those who aren't in denial- the Blight.  A threat that can wipe out humanity entirely makes the Orlesians look like small potatoes.

Okay and Amen that someone noticed the historical imperitive that wars of liberation are inevitably followed by civil war. I didn't see this as strictly a result of Loghain's actions [in the historical sense] but in the sense that it was an inevitable power grab as a result of Maric's loss [not Cailin's] because it takes time before such ramifications are seen due to plotting and gathering allies and other political considerations and Cailin had only been king for 5 years. Kind of reminds me of the Gandhi situation. The country held together only as long as he and [can't remember the the "Loghain" figure's name, the military general] were both alive and working together.

All I could figure is that the Bannorn were just as clueless as Loghain to even start a civil war if they really thought the blight was a problem. Love him or hate him, if they saw the threat, would they not join him and not split their forces as they did to kick out the Orlesians? Loghain's abrasive and hard--he was probably hated long before Cailin's demise. So, the Arls are not innocent in this, either.

I also found it a bit weird that if you do Stan's quests--you're the local mafia lord really--the guards are chasing you but nobody at the landsmeet yells "hey ya crook!" [you'd think Loghain would notice and use that for his benefit?:P]

And yes, perhaps some of it is technical rather than writing. It's like having one's book made into a film--some things get lost because the medium can't be used in the same way.

The game I wish they'd do is the prequel. I'd love to be helping Maric and Loghain take on the Orlesians with the big battle at River Dane as the epic ending!

[ejoslin]

Just because someone is amused at a question doesn't mean their answer is humorous. *sigh* I take that as meaning more like, that possibility -- it's just totally outside of his experience.

Oh well, I'm probably confused. Off to dye my hair brown again. Sometimes it helps.

Edit: One line I'd love to see if there are comments about.  When he says, "Jealous? Not I ..."

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 05:38 .

[Sabriana]

Ser Bryant said it best. "Only a fool fights about who owns the cottage while it burns down around them."

@ Ejoslin.

And the above was in answer to Swifty's post.

And yes, the "Jealous? Not I..." what does the VO comment say. Please? Pretty please?/whine

Modifié par Sabriana, 15 mars 2010 - 05:41 .

[Swifty]

jenovan wrote...

Ahh, have to agree about the Landsmeet -- given how politics just are, and that these are nobles, I had expected a much, much cooler reception for my elf.  Even though some of the banns support the Wardens, there are certainly plenty of other lords and ladies there who could at least make snide comments for flavor.  

But, as Addai says, maybe everyone's able to suck it up in the face of the Blight.  Maybe.

Hope that quoted right jenovan.

I suspect it was time constraints/overlooked writing/technical. I doubt the "lordship" would suck up the insult of a lowly elf addressing them and demanding their attention. I was surprised that Alistair wouldn't address them first in that situation?

[Swifty]

Sabriana wrote...

Ser Bryant said it best. "Only a fool fights about who owns the cottage while it burns down around them."

Yeah but he's not a  lord with that kind of privelege. He's just a working knight with common sense;)

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

Just because someone is amused at a question doesn't mean their answer is humorous. *sigh* I take that as meaning more like, that possibility -- it's just totally outside of his experience.

Oh well, I'm probably confused. Off to dye my hair brown again. Sometimes it helps.

Edit: One line I'd love to see if there are comments about.  When he says, "Jealous? Not I ..."

Hmm, I see what you're saying, but, I take the VO notes as a direction of how the actor should verbalize the line -- and I'm not quite sure how to reconcile "amused at the question" with "irritated in the reply". Ahh, English fails me, I don't know how to explain how I'm reading it.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Ser Bryant said it best. "Only a fool fights about who owns the cottage while it burns down around them."

@ Ejoslin.

And the above was in answer to Swifty's post.

And yes, the "Jealous? Not I..." what does the VO comment say. Please? Pretty please?/whine

LOL< I see how it is!

Hah, I just meant, that after sex talk seemed a LOT more affectionate than many people take it to be.  He's teasing, he's amused, he's happy.  There are things going on that he never even contemplated.  

Edit: And being amused by the question -- incredulous may be how I'm taking that.  He doesn't sound annoyed in his answer to me, he sounds like he's trying to convince himself that that is just not possible.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 mars 2010 - 05:48 .