35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...

And true enough, the Redcliffe choices depend on the game you're in. Personally, I believe Isolde has to atone for her sins. She almost single-handedly wiped out everyone under her care as the arlessa. Simply because she couldn't bring herself to abide by chantry laws.

I'm coming around to this, too, and see it as one place where having spoiler knowledge made my game dishonest.  I think even a "good" PC who had just seen how much suffering was wrought on the common people of Redcliffe could very well decide that putting those people at further risk as too much to ask versus sacrificing Isolde.

[Sabriana]

I did that too. I raised his approval on the road after the conversation where he refuses to talk about Rinna. From Redcliffe I took a detour to the forest, just to get the gloves, and got the boots in haven. That clinched it, and took him to 100.

I wonder if it'll work for me. My game tends to bug out here and there. I'll keep my fingers crossed.

However, I thought the "what about love" lines didn't come up until after their first time together.

[Sialater]

Well, the approval thing is.... you just rejected a virgin making his first move. Quite an ego blow.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

I did that too. I raised his approval on the road after the conversation where he refuses to talk about Rinna. From Redcliffe I took a detour to the forest, just to get the gloves, and got the boots in haven. That clinched it, and took him to 100.
I wonder if it'll work for me. My game tends to bug out here and there. I'll keep my fingers crossed.
However, I thought the "what about love" lines didn't come up until after their first time together.

That's when it comes up.  It won't switch until after you two go to the tent -- it just takes certain dialog choices to get it to turn.  It's different for elves than it is for humans and dwarves.  But the approval Zevran gives seems to be different for elves as well -- elves take bigger approval hits.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

And true enough, the Redcliffe choices depend on the game you're in. Personally, I believe Isolde has to atone for her sins. She almost single-handedly wiped out everyone under her care as the arlessa. Simply because she couldn't bring herself to abide by chantry laws.

I'm coming around to this, too, and see it as one place where having spoiler knowledge made my game dishonest.  I think even a "good" PC who had just seen how much suffering was wrought on the common people of Redcliffe could very well decide that putting those people at further risk as too much to ask versus sacrificing Isolde.

What Isolde permitted Conner to do is so disturbing, and the fact that saving her and Conner is viewed as moral is awful.  Maybe the demon in the time it takes to get to the circle will round up a few more elves to chop off their ears and feed to the dogs, or maybe just torture other people instead.  How anyone could leave the village with that demon uncontrolled is beyond me!

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:20 .

[ejoslin]

Sialater wrote...

Well, the approval thing is.... you just rejected a virgin making his first move. Quite an ego blow.

Again, it's more just a contrast between Alistair and Zevran.  Alistair is actually very much a selfish person, once you look beyond the pretty words.  Just because a virgin wants to have sex with someone, especially because they're not human like him, in a camp, in the open . . .  ugh!  You may as well kill Isolde!  I think that makes him as mad!

:innocent:

Actually, you can get him to approve of killing Isolde.  He never approves of turning him down!

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:26 .

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

And true enough, the Redcliffe choices depend on the game you're in. Personally, I believe Isolde has to atone for her sins. She almost single-handedly wiped out everyone under her care as the arlessa. Simply because she couldn't bring herself to abide by chantry laws.

I'm coming around to this, too, and see it as one place where having spoiler knowledge made my game dishonest.  I think even a "good" PC who had just seen how much suffering was wrought on the common people of Redcliffe could very well decide that putting those people at further risk as too much to ask versus sacrificing Isolde.

Although it sounds like this was an easy decision, it really wasn't. It was my first play-through, and I wasn't spoilered in any way. My PC was really in a quandary, because she wasn't sure whether the demon would go and wipe out the rest of Redcliffe town and castle while she was on her way to the tower.

Coupled with what she saw and heard in Redcliffe, it was clear to her that those people were suffering and mourning. The little girl lying on the chantry floor never left her mind. Finding out that Isolde lied repeatedly to everyone, including her husband was also a consideration.

My mage felt so bad for Isolde when the arlessa told her that the mages in her family were all 'bad, terrible men'. However, my mage felt she had little choice. Especially when she told Isolde she'd have to think the sacrifice offering over. Isolde's answer "Please hurry, I don't know what the demon will do if you take too long." If thinking things over might take too long, then traveling to the tower was definitely out of the question.

The clincher was delivered by Isolde. When my mage asked her "Are you sure you want to die?" Isolde answers like this "I will gladly give my life so my son can live. I need to make up for the bad things I did to the people."

@ Ejoslin

But even though the "love" question takes a disapproval hit, overall my girl shouldn't fall under the 100 mark, right? Because approval and disapproval should cancel each other out in that situation.

@ Sialater
Thanks a lot for confusing the heck out of me for a moment there, my friend

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Ejoslin

But even though the "love" question takes a disapproval hit, overall my girl shouldn't fall under the 100 mark, right? Because approval and disapproval should cancel each other out in that situation.

Keep in mind that the highest you can get from that encounter is 22, so even a huge hit will still net you positive!  Is your character an elf, though?  If she is, do not ask him if it was all part of his plan.  If she's human or dwarf, you do have to ask him that as well.  But as long as you keep it playful at the start, it should be good!

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:34 .

[nyxocity]

Not a romance question, but maybe you all can help me. I'm not romancing Zevran, so is it possible to get his approval rating to 100%? I've given him the boots, the gloves, and I think one silver bar, exhausted all conversations, and he still isn't allowing an opening for telling me about his last kill. I have an option to end things, though, even though I'm not romancing him, so I expect I will also have to choose that option sometime in the future since I'm romancing someone else. Is giving him the other three bars the only way? Even then I'm going to take a hit for having to end things, which I want to do before Ali asks me to, so the hit I take from Zev is less. But given all this, I can't see a way to hit 100% with him as a friend.

ETA: Are there decisions I can make on the road to bring him up? I've been keeping him with me constantly, but mostly he seems neutral about everything.

Modifié par thenyxie, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:40 .

[Sialater]

Sorry for confusing you, Sabriana. Not sure how, though... LOL

[AnniLau]

I had Zev at 100 Friendly on my last completion, but either the convo on his last mission didn't come up until after the Crow confrontation or I neglected to talk to him for a while before that.  My PC never slept with him and I think I gave him all of his gifts except one of the bars.

Modifié par AnniLau, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:47 .

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...
Keep in mind that the highest you can get from that encounter is 22, so even a huge hit will still net you positive!  Is your character an elf, though?  If she is, do not ask him if it was all part of his plan.  If she's human or dwarf, you do have to ask him that as well.  But as long as you keep it playful at the start, it should be good!

Now I'm curious -- is the dialogue with an elf actually different, is the approval different, or is it just that different choices lead to the switchover? 

[Addai]

thenyxie wrote...

Not a romance question, but maybe you all can help me. I'm not romancing Zevran, so is it possible to get his approval rating to 100%?

Yes, I had him at 100 Friendly on two characters.  My Dalish character who romanced Alistair and went to help the wardens was pleasantly surprised that of all her companions, only Zevran offered to come with her.  She took him up on it, too.   He did tell her about Rinna.

As for your questions, he will give you small approval boosts for a few choices.  The ones I can recall:  Refusing the demon's deal (after asking about it) in Warden's Keep; releasing Soris from Howe's prison; killing Vaughan (actually I can't recall if I got a + on that one, I do know he gives a - for taking Vaughan's deal).  I know that doesn't help much, it seems with Zevran it is all about the interaction with the PC.

Modifié par Addai67, 15 janvier 2010 - 04:49 .

[Sabriana]

@ Sialater

I was on the 'Zevran think track', and couldn't quite connect the 'virgin' with Zevran.



Although I do have a city elf game, that game is on ice at the moment. I just don't know how to go with the story, so she'll have to wait it out.



My active game is a HN (again), and I do know how to get to +22 (thanks to you-know-who). Great.



@ Thenixie

I wish I could help you, but I've never had a problem raising him up to get the conversation. You know, somehow or other it seems the points are not in a straight-forward fashion, but hinge on actions. I can't prove that, nor can I be more specific, but I do have the feeling sometimes.



Maybe trying to give him a bunch of generic gifts will help. Most just give +1, but some give up to +3 or 4.

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Keep in mind that the highest you can get from that encounter is 22, so even a huge hit will still net you positive!  Is your character an elf, though?  If she is, do not ask him if it was all part of his plan.  If she's human or dwarf, you do have to ask him that as well.  But as long as you keep it playful at the start, it should be good!

Now I'm curious -- is the dialogue with an elf actually different, is the approval different, or is it just that different choices lead to the switchover? 

Different choices.  Dialog is exactly the same.  

[ejoslin]

Ways I know of to raise Zevran's approval, but I usually have him at 100 early, so I'm sure I miss some:



Shake down Lloyd and take his bar from him

Say you'll kill the Dalish to the werewolves but change your mind when he asks you to reconsider

Lie to the Demon in Honnleith (Shale's quest)

Say you'll make a deal with the demon in Soldier's peak, but this doesn't work if you have shale or sten in the party

I think siding with branka (you can have her kill herself so no golems are made) though I know for sure that siding with Caridin gets you disapproval

Sleep with Cammen

Sleep with him and Isabela



To get him to talk about Rinna, either as lover or not, you need him at 71 I believe. Next time I play a game without romancing him I'll check . . . I actually meant to do that this game, to keep it friends until after Taliesen, but I caved SO quickly.



Hmmmm, this may actually be another Ali revenge story . . . Keep him soft, try to marry him off to Anora while he's at 100 love just to see what happens, then watch everything fall apart. But not romancing Zevran . . . I'm not sure I'd want to play!

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

I know for sure that siding with Caridin gets you disapproval

I really don't get this.  I would think that the fact, as your PC says, that it is enslaving living souls would be an appeal Zevran would understand.  However I believe it was only a -1. 

[Sabriana]

Sleep with Cammen? He approves of that? I didn't know that, because I can't bring myself to force my PC to sleep with that child.

[AnniLau]

Sabriana wrote...

Sleep with Cammen? He approves of that? I didn't know that, because I can't bring myself to force my PC to sleep with that child.

I did it just to see. Wynne disapproves and gives you **** about it, Zev approves, and Alistair apparently doesn't care either way, even if you're romancing him.  *reload*

[jenovan]

A bit of (possibly) revealing dialogue analysis, since everyone loves that around here. ;D

I was going over some of the options in the conversation where Zevran asks about the future.  (It's still amazing to me how early that comes up! Sounds like he's smitten to me...)  There seems to be more proof that he doesn't like having to reveal his feelings -- at least, not before the PC does.


*dialogue spoilers, etc. etc.*

Zevran: My question pertains to what you intend to do with me once this business is over with.  As a point of curiosity.

My PC, who at this point in their acquaintance would never suggest ravishing ;D, selected:
PC: You could go, if you wanted.
Zevran: Could I? And what if I didn't wish to leave?

1.------
PC: I could always use a friend.
Zevran: Not more than friends?

Note that he's happy to bring this up after *you* mention friendship.  Same thing goes if you say "I'd like that"; he follows up with "So would I, I should think."  It seems like he's feeling out the PC before he admits anything. Of course, saying you'd like that nets the most approval there (+10).

2.------
(I chose this my first time through this scene, because my PC felt that surely Zevran must have other places he's rather be than cold, stodgy Ferelden!)
PC: Why wouldn't you go, if you had the chance?
Zevran: It is difficult to say.  Is there no one I might stay for?

You've just forced him to reveal that he wants to stay with the PC in some capacity, before the PC suggests any such thing, and I wonder if he resents that a bit. Even if the PC says that they'd like that, you get +6.  Not bad by any stretch, but it's an interesting difference.

Alternately, you could look at it that he really likes being thought of as a friend, I suppose!

Modifié par jenovan, 15 janvier 2010 - 05:51 .

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

A bit of (possibly) revealing dialogue analysis, since everyone loves that around here. ;D

I was going over some of the options in the conversation where Zevran asks about the future.  (It's still amazing to me how early that comes up! Sounds like he's smitten to me...)  There seems to be more proof that he doesn't like having to reveal his feelings -- at least, not before the PC does.


*dialogue spoilers, etc. etc.*

Zevran: My question pertains to what you intend to do with me once this business is over with.  As a point of curiosity.

My PC, who at this point in their acquaintance would never suggest ravishing ;D, selected:
PC: You could go, if you wanted.
Zevran: Could I? And what if I didn't wish to leave?

1.------
PC: I could always use a friend.
Zevran: Not more than friends?

Note that he's happy to bring this up after *you* mention friendship.  Same thing goes if you say "I'd like that"; he follows up with "So would I, I should think."  It seems like he's feeling out the PC before he admits anything. Of course, saying you'd like that nets the most approval there (+10).

2.------
(I chose this my first time through this scene, because my PC felt that surely Zevran must have other places he's rather be than cold, stodgy Ferelden!)
PC: Why wouldn't you go, if you had the chance?
Zevran: It is difficult to say.  Is there no one I might stay for?

You've just forced him to reveal that he wants to stay with the PC in some capacity, before the PC suggests any such thing, and I wonder if he resents that a bit. Even if the PC says that they'd like that, you get +6.  Not bad by any stretch, but it's an interesting difference.

Alternately, you could look at it that he really likes being thought of as a friend, I suppose!

Hmmm, you can actually get +11 for this dialog . . . and yes, that is one of my favorite things about the romance, Zevran, before it gets anywhere near the sex part, checks to see if he has a place in the PC's future.  If you suggest when at warm in that dialog that you ravish him in celebration he says something like this, "Hmmmm, it's normally me that ravishes the comely lasses.  I like it!"  

Deleting the rest because it is a complete repeat of what you said!

But it is probably the biggest difference between the Alistair romance.  Alistair doesn't commit and doesn't even think about the future until after he and the PC have had sex and are in love.  Zevran, before it even can get physical, makes sure there is a future.

Edit: Actually, I had a bit of a different experience.  I do get +11 if I ask him why he wouldn't go and he asks if there isn't someone he'd stay for as long as the final response is, "I'd like that" and he says, "So would I, I should think."  The difference could be, though, is that mentioning ravishing him turns the romance on so there's additional points there.  

It definitely is an amazing conversation, however.  And one can set the whole course of the romance, or friendship.  I think a lot of people completely rebuff him as it's early and probably are still completely involved in Alistair not realizing how romantic and lasting are two completely different things -- and when you turn it off at that point, it stays off for good.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 06:11 .

[jenovan]

I actually got +13 by doing ravishing->friends->I'd like that, but y'know... out of character.

Hahaha, I can imagine Zevran would like the offer of being ravished by a lady, yes ;D the reply I got to that line was "Of course, the ravishing part is a given!"

Modifié par jenovan, 15 janvier 2010 - 06:22 .

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

I actually got +13 by doing ravishing->friends->I'd like that, but y'know... out of character.

Hahaha, I can imagine Zevran would like the offer of being ravished by a lady, yes ;D the reply I got to that line was "Of course, the ravishing part is a given!"

Ah, then you had the romance turned on already.  Just like when you can get him to ask for a kiss, if the romance isn't on yet, you can ask, "You want to kiss me?"  And he'll answer, "Well, you are a lovely lady.  I am a lovely man.  Sound familiar?"  It's hard keeping it at just warm to get a few of these, though.

Edit: I really wonder how awakenings is going to have anything comparable to these romances. I am really hoping that it's not disappointing, because the bar is now set SO high.

Modifié par ejoslin, 15 janvier 2010 - 06:14 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

But it is probably the biggest difference between the Alistair romance.  Alistair doesn't commit and doesn't even think about the future until after he and the PC have had sex and are in love.  Zevran, before it even can get physical, makes sure there is a future.

Hence why my PC was surprised, last night as I finished the alienage and went back to talk to him about why he was being different (proposal dialogue), that he still wasn't certain she would want to stay with him.  She thought it would have been obvious by then that she wasn't going anywhere!

P.S. Anyone else wish that that dialogue concluded with a new tent cutscene, one which shows the new dynamic of the relationship?

Modifié par Addai67, 15 janvier 2010 - 06:16 .

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

Ah, then you had the romance turned on already.  Just like when you can get him to ask for a kiss, if the romance isn't on yet, you can ask, "You want to kiss me?"  And he'll answer, "Well, you are a lovely lady.  I am a lovely man.  Sound familiar?"  It's hard keeping it at just warm to get a few of these, though.

Hmmm, I wonder if I can mess with that a bit. I'd given him one of the metal bars right before that conversation -- otherwise the conversation wasn't coming up.  Maybe I can try a small gift rather than one of the big ones to see if I can inch the approval up a bit?


Hmm, you know.. part of Zevran's concern for the future may be that he feels that he truly has nowhere else to go. (I'm not going to get in to whether or not Alistair really does... but he has more options, I think.)  The PC freed him from the Crows (and will do a more thorough job later), and has opened up a new path for him.   Even if only friends, I could see where he would want to stay with someone who made him feel like something more than a killing tool.