35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Addai]

Rhinna wrote...

How do you get Zev to offer you a kiss? I haven't been able to figure that out - he is stingy with those (unless you have the mod LOL)

The only time you can ever kiss him in public turns the romance off.  Unfair!

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

jenovan wrote...
*laughs* the male PC offers a punch in the mouth. ;D  I never tried that answer, though..

And re: mods, so very true!  Although I think the very best reason for me is, you're only limited to 30 save slots on PS3.

I have got to try to romance him on a male PC.  I'd love to see how that conversation goes. It's like this for the female:

PC: If you don't want to talk, that's fine
Zev: Old men love to talk. Do I get a kiss afterwards?
PC: How about a slap in the face instead
Zev: Oooh, hot! Do I still have to tell the story?
PC: You're a cad, do you know that?
Zev: Is that Ferelden for virile and sexy? If so, I like it!

I'm sure I got that a bit wrong, but it's funny nonetheless.

Ahh, it's the same for the male PC  (except for the punch, of course ;D)  But that nets 5 points less than saying "if you're lucky" about the kiss, hehe.  

[Darthnemesis2]

I love the Zev romance, I'm not really going to go into it, because I'm sure the last 36 pages have done an excellent job of saying exactly how awesome Zev is.

But I will say that while Zev may come off as a sleezeball at first (and second...) it really seems more like a defense mechanism than anything else. He says it himself as you go further along the romance track with him, he takes his pleasures where he can because they can be few and far between. When the PC shows him that there is another side to romance than sex, Zev becomes a different person, more able to acknowledge his feelings. It brings out another side that I love.

[Coldcall01]

I find Zevran a completely repellent, sleazy creep and can't see how any guy or girl could fancy someone like that. In my next playthrough im killing him first time, i dont even want him in my camp.

[ejoslin]

Coldcall01 wrote...

I find Zevran a completely repellent, sleazy creep and can't see how any guy or girl could fancy someone like that. In my next playthrough im killing him first time, i dont even want him in my camp.

Hahaha, just about every page, someone does this exact trolling bit.  Sometimes twice in a page. Play the game as you enjoy it; that's what's most important.

[ejoslin]

Darthnemesis2 wrote...

I love the Zev romance, I'm not really going to go into it, because I'm sure the last 36 pages have done an excellent job of saying exactly how awesome Zev is.
But I will say that while Zev may come off as a sleezeball at first (and second...) it really seems more like a defense mechanism than anything else. He says it himself as you go further along the romance track with him, he takes his pleasures where he can because they can be few and far between. When the PC shows him that there is another side to romance than sex, Zev becomes a different person, more able to acknowledge his feelings. It brings out another side that I love.

Not only does he become a different person (Alistair and Leliana do as well, possibly), but with no prompting from the PC.  It's all from Zevran, which is nice.  It also, of all the romances, strikes me as two equals, which is interesting as Zevran is technically the PC's indenture.  But he's not afraid to voice his opinion, even if it's different from the PC's and not afraid to speak for the group, which Alistair actually is.  So yes, I agree with you here, but you may want to read some of the thread, because you'll find a lot in here you agree with, and maybe find interesting!

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

jenovan wrote...
*laughs* the male PC offers a punch in the mouth. ;D  I never tried that answer, though..

And re: mods, so very true!  Although I think the very best reason for me is, you're only limited to 30 save slots on PS3.

I have got to try to romance him on a male PC.  I'd love to see how that conversation goes. It's like this for the female:

PC: If you don't want to talk, that's fine
Zev: Old men love to talk. Do I get a kiss afterwards?
PC: How about a slap in the face instead
Zev: Oooh, hot! Do I still have to tell the story?
PC: You're a cad, do you know that?
Zev: Is that Ferelden for virile and sexy? If so, I like it!

I'm sure I got that a bit wrong, but it's funny nonetheless.

Ahh, it's the same for the male PC  (except for the punch, of course ;D)  But that nets 5 points less than saying "if you're lucky" about the kiss, hehe.  

Yes, but but but . . . hahahahaha.  I don't always go for max approval.  It is far too easy to get it too quickly with Zevran since I travel with him in my party.  But yeh, I bet he likes that better 

[AndreaDraco]

ejoslin wrote...
Not only does he become a different person (Alistair and Leliana do as well, possibly), but with no prompting from the PC.  It's all from Zevran, which is nice.  It also, of all the romances, strikes me as two equals, which is interesting as Zevran is technically the PC's indenture.  But he's not afraid to voice his opinion, even if it's different from the PC's and not afraid to speak for the group, which Alistair actually is.  So yes, I agree with you here, but you may want to read some of the thread, because you'll find a lot in here you agree with, and maybe find interesting!

I agree, even if, although the changing comes entirely from Zev, the PC still had an influence on this changing, showing Zev the possibility of a new life together (Zev asks many time about a "possible future"). Still, what is totally different in Zevran's case, is that the PC hasn't a single line capable of turning his personality like a sock - the change is slowly built, and comes first from the Warden's friendship, then from his/her interest in Zevran, then from his/her affection and love. It's not the Warden who opens his eyes, metaphorically, but it is Zevran that, thanks to his closeness to the Warden, opens his eyes and sees that there are, indeed, chances of better future together.

Does anyone here have read the Nightrunner series? Zev and the Warden's relationship reminded me of the slow-building romance between Alec and Seregil, a romance that, even if it is sexual and sensuous, is built first and foremost on loyalty (and Zev is undeniably the most loyal character of the party) and trust.

[ejoslin]

AndreaDraco wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Not only does he become a different person (Alistair and Leliana do as well, possibly), but with no prompting from the PC.  It's all from Zevran, which is nice.  It also, of all the romances, strikes me as two equals, which is interesting as Zevran is technically the PC's indenture.  But he's not afraid to voice his opinion, even if it's different from the PC's and not afraid to speak for the group, which Alistair actually is.  So yes, I agree with you here, but you may want to read some of the thread, because you'll find a lot in here you agree with, and maybe find interesting!

I agree, even if, although the changing comes entirely from Zev, the PC still had an influence on this changing, showing Zev the possibility of a new life together (Zev asks many time about a "possible future"). Still, what is totally different in Zevran's case, is that the PC hasn't a single line capable of turning his personality like a sock - the change is slowly built, and comes first from the Warden's friendship, then from his/her interest in Zevran, then from his/her affection and love. It's not the Warden who opens his eyes, metaphorically, but it is Zevran that, thanks to his closeness to the Warden, opens his eyes and sees that there are, indeed, chances of better future together.

Does anyone here have read the Nightrunner series? Zev and the Warden's relationship reminded me of the slow-building romance between Alec and Seregil, a romance that, even if it is sexual and sensuous, is built first and foremost on loyalty (and Zev is undeniably the most loyal character of the party) and trust.

You're right, of course, it was because of the PC that Zevran changed (or didn't change).  I was more thinking of the pivotal conversations you could have with Alistair and Leliana.  With Zevran, his personal quest was not something he asked for either, unlike the rest of the companions.  In fact, Zevran never asked the PC to do anything for him, nor did he have expectations of the PC.  At the same time, he never is shy about saying what he thinks is right, speaking for the group, or, at least on one occasion, making a decision for the group that the PC has no choice but to follow.

But the PC has a few followers who are completely loyal.  Oghren is, he doesn't even have to like you to agree to kill his wife (I never do, there's an alternative and it's too cruel to make him do it, but you don't need to make golems either).  Dog of course is your dog.  Sten, aside from his one bit of rebellion, will not leave you.  The more "good" characters, however, no matter how good you've been to them, they may leave you, or even try to kill you.  They lose sight of the fact that the blight is the important thing, and put their own values ahead of it.  But I suppose that's a different thread.

[AndreaDraco]

You're right about Dog, and even about Oghren, but I must admit that I usually do Orzammar last and, as such, I seldom have time to develop a meaningful relationship with Oghren, who, beside his undeniable humor, remais always peripheral in my party

[mousestalker]

Oghren is great! My last run through I had him at 100 and killed the archdemon myself (making a god baby for Morrigan strikes this Grey Warden as a very bad idea). His ending was very touching.

My first run through I didn't really care for Oghren, Zevran, Sten and Shale. Now they are my favourite characters.

Modifié par mousestalker, 16 janvier 2010 - 01:53 .

[ejoslin]

This is just a screenshot of the final Alistair kiss wtih a dumped Alistair and romanced Zevran.  Zev is in the screen for most of it, except when the camera changes angles, but is also blurry. I find it interesting that Zevran is watching Alistair, not the PC, during the kiss. Though I'm not sure WHY I find that interesting!

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 janvier 2010 - 04:34 .

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
I find it interesting that Zevran is watching Alistair, not the PC, during the kiss. Though I'm not sure WHY I find that interesting!

HoYay? 

[ejoslin]

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I find it interesting that Zevran is watching Alistair, not the PC, during the kiss. Though I'm not sure WHY I find that interesting!

HoYay? 

No demon baby, Alistair is archdemon food, and the PC and Zevran run off into the sunset . . . happy ending, no?

Edit: I guess I do have a bit too much time on my hands this morning!

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 janvier 2010 - 04:41 .

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...
I find it interesting that Zevran is watching Alistair, not the PC, during the kiss. Though I'm not sure WHY I find that interesting!

Maybe he's making sure Alistair doesn't try anything funny.


Hmm, interesting observation today... We know Zevran doesn't like talking about love, and how he responds to that in the after-sex talk... But I noticed that during his recitation, he's pacing around in such an agitated manner!  For all the other responses, he'll just stand and natter with you.  He could have just been cool and shrugged it off as he made his speech, like he does for other things he disapproves of, but it seems to bother him greatly.  A nice detail and bit of insight.


And because I think I'm FINALLY done fiddling for a while, my Zevran mod.   I gave my elven fellas more of what I personally expect elven features to look like, so he may not be everyone's cup of tea, but, well... XD
clicky
I find the blonde version sort of leonine and the brunette rather panther-like. Or maybe that's just me. ;D

Modifié par jenovan, 16 janvier 2010 - 10:14 .

[BlastedLands]

jenovan wrote...



And because I think I'm FINALLY done fiddling for a while, my Zevran mod.   I gave my elven fellas more of what I personally expect elven features to look like, so he may not be everyone's cup of tea, but, well... XD
clicky
I find the blonde version sort of leonine and the brunette rather panther-like. Or maybe that's just me. ;D

ooooh.... me likes!

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
I find it interesting that Zevran is watching Alistair, not the PC, during the kiss. Though I'm not sure WHY I find that interesting!

Maybe he's making sure Alistair doesn't try anything funny.


Hmm, interesting observation today... We know Zevran doesn't like talking about love, and how he responds to that in the after-sex talk... But I noticed that during his recitation, he's pacing around in such an agitated manner!  For all the other responses, he'll just stand and natter with you.  He could have just been cool and shrugged it off as he made his speech, like he does for other things he disapproves of, but it seems to bother him greatly.  A nice detail and bit of insight.


And because I think I'm FINALLY done fiddling for a while, my Zevran mod.   I gave my elven fellas more of what I personally expect elven features to look like, so he may not be everyone's cup of tea, but, well... XD
clicky
I find the blonde version sort of leonine and the brunette rather panther-like. Or maybe that's just me. ;D

Oh wowza, do you have that available anywhere?  I really like that!  

And yes, I agree with you on the love thing -- I always ask him about that as it's so obvious he's trying to convince himself, not the PC.  And it's the only way to get the romance status to read love before the Taliesen encounter (though you need to make other, maybe not-so-happy choices as well).

My own thought about Zevran being in the kiss scene, yet blurry while the PC and Alistair are in full focus . . .  Alistair is giving them both the chance for a life together; that goodbye kiss is giving as much of a gift as he is the PC.  I've said it before, but Zevran knows how it's supposed to end, and i think he knows exactly what Alistair is doing for them.  It's not a hostile look at all -- it's a grateful look.  I actually think it's a fantastic touch that it's there -- it gives the scene more meaning to someone who is romancing Zevran.

Edit: Above it should read: that goodbye kiss seems to be giving Zevran as much of a gift as he is the PC.

Modifié par ejoslin, 16 janvier 2010 - 11:13 .

[jenovan]

Thanks, Haerja! 

ejoslin wrote...

Oh wowza, do you have that available anywhere?  I really like that!  

And yes, I agree with you on the love thing -- I always ask him about that as it's so obvious he's trying to convince himself, not the PC.  And it's the only way to get the romance status to read love before the Taliesen encounter (though you need to make other, maybe not-so-happy choices as well).

My own thought about Zevran being in the kiss scene, yet blurry while the PC and Alistair are in full focus . . .  Alistair is giving them both the chance for a life together; that goodbye kiss is giving as much of a gift as he is the PC.  I've said it before, but Zevran knows how it's supposed to end, and i think he knows exactly what Alistair is doing for them.  It's not a hostile look at all -- it's a grateful look.  I actually think it's a fantastic touch that it's there -- it gives the scene more meaning to someone who is romancing Zevran.

Thanks!  I need to make "vanilla" versions (I use the Extra Tints & Tones mod, or whatever it's called) of the files, and then I'll put them up on the Nexus later this evening :3  The elfy ears clip with helmets, so I might try to make a smaller-eared version too, but that will take some testing.  Yeesh ;D

Aww, yes, I could definitely see Zevran feeling grateful to Alistair for going off to face the Archdemon.      I suppose I'd feel the same way in that situation -- who's going to begrudge the guy a last kiss when 1) he'll never get another... and 2) he's giving you the chance to have a life together, as you said.  Sigh, all the nuances. XD

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

Thanks, Haerja! 

ejoslin wrote...

Oh wowza, do you have that available anywhere?  I really like that!  

And yes, I agree with you on the love thing -- I always ask him about that as it's so obvious he's trying to convince himself, not the PC.  And it's the only way to get the romance status to read love before the Taliesen encounter (though you need to make other, maybe not-so-happy choices as well).

My own thought about Zevran being in the kiss scene, yet blurry while the PC and Alistair are in full focus . . .  Alistair is giving them both the chance for a life together; that goodbye kiss is giving as much of a gift as he is the PC.  I've said it before, but Zevran knows how it's supposed to end, and i think he knows exactly what Alistair is doing for them.  It's not a hostile look at all -- it's a grateful look.  I actually think it's a fantastic touch that it's there -- it gives the scene more meaning to someone who is romancing Zevran.

Thanks!  I need to make "vanilla" versions (I use the Extra Tints & Tones mod, or whatever it's called) of the files, and then I'll put them up on the Nexus later this evening :3  The elfy ears clip with helmets, so I might try to make a smaller-eared version too, but that will take some testing.  Yeesh ;D

Aww, yes, I could definitely see Zevran feeling grateful to Alistair for going off to face the Archdemon.      I suppose I'd feel the same way in that situation -- who's going to begrudge the guy a last kiss when 1) he'll never get another... and 2) he's giving you the chance to have a life together, as you said.  Sigh, all the nuances. XD

I'll look for that later on the nexus.  It's fantastic.  Big ears don't bother me, i use the helmet hack (the helmets are SO ugly in this game).  But I like that better than the beautification one -- I love the elven look.

[Addai]

Where do we learn that Zevran knows what happens with the archdemon? And how would he know that?

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Where do we learn that Zevran knows what happens with the archdemon? And how would he know that?

He doesn't know the details, but he knows a gray warden dies.

Edit: Cut out the dialog as it's so amazing you need to see it for yourself.  It's after Taliesen, after the first offering of the earring (if romancing him) and if you choose that you consider him a friend as well, and then tell him he doesn't have to  die either.  Zevran knows from the start how it's supposed to end.

Modifié par ejoslin, 17 janvier 2010 - 12:49 .

[Addai]

Ah, I got that, I didn't realize he was talking specifically about killing the archdemon.  Edit: But it does make sense... anyone who had "heard all the tales", as he says, would put 2 + 2.  The Grey Wardens and their secrecy is all a bit of a farce.

Modifié par Addai67, 17 janvier 2010 - 12:41 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Ah, I got that, I didn't realize he was talking specifically about killing the archdemon.

That's what the legends of the gray wardens are about -- whomever ends the blight, dies.  

Edit: That is why he is telling her he's sticking it through to the end, to do what it takes to prevent her dying, even if it means dying himself.  What is most amazing about this is he tells this to someone who is a friend as well.  It's not about not wanting to see the PC die (as is Alistair's motivation), but about his loyalty to the PC.

Modifié par ejoslin, 17 janvier 2010 - 12:48 .

[ReubenLiew]

There are legends that state that? I don't recall ever heaing or reading about that... I think everyone else just assumes that the battle is so ferocious that the Grey Warden had to give his life to strike the final blow...

[ejoslin]

ReubenLiew wrote...

There are legends that state that? I don't recall ever heaing or reading about that... I think everyone else just assumes that the battle is so ferocious that the Grey Warden had to give his life to strike the final blow...

According to the dialog with Zevran, the legends he read as a child do say that a gray warden always dies to end the blight..  I don't want to put the exact dialog in here because it is worth hearing it in the game rather than reading it on a board -- it's very powerful.

Edit: And yes, Zevran never says he knows the details, and in fact I think believes that what you say is true, and he is offering there to be the one to do so instead of the PC.  He doesn't know it HAS to be a gray warden, and he wants to be the one to prevent the gray warden actually dying, even if it means dying himself.

Modifié par ejoslin, 17 janvier 2010 - 12:54 .