35177 réponses à ce sujet

[SurrealSadi]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

*sigh* Deep roads suck. Deep roads with Zevran and Dialog Tweaks . . . Then going back to the camp. It's possible I'm even more squee now.

there needs a  *skip straight to deadtrenches* mod like the *skip to fade* mod

Eh, if you rush as fast as you can through it, do no side quests(or maybe only a couple) you can do Orzammar in just about an hour.

Orzammar I have no problem with its the deeproads I dislike for the lack of story outside of Ruck+broodmother+crazy psycho cow

...hmmm maybe Alexander could "acidentatly" get Branka to make anora into a golem for him she does owe me

s'what I meant. I did it last night after doing stuff in Denerim, getting ready for the Sacred Ashes, and doing other side questy type stuff there. Then ran (back) to Orzammar, did what I needed there, killed Leske and Jarvia(which took 45 minutes), then headed into the Deep, ignoring everything save Ruck and looking at maps for the shortest routes possible. Deep Roads took about an hour.

[Cuddlezarro]

you already had to kill Leske? I was sad when I found out you could not save him I even killed every one but him hoping he would back down but...

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 mars 2010 - 02:59 .

[SurrealSadi]

Mhm. Wasn't too worked up over it. Basterd betrayed Amalia. He deserved death.

[Cuddlezarro]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Mhm. Wasn't too worked up over it. Basterd betrayed Amalia. He deserved death.

and a Certain Antivan elf tried to kill you and you spared his life

[SurrealSadi]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Mhm. Wasn't too worked up over it. Basterd betrayed Amalia. He deserved death.

and a Certain Antivan elf tried to kill you and you spared his life

Yes, but he didn't try to rationalize his choices in the conversation, he told Amalia all the information she wanted, and decided against her better judgement to let him live. Besides, he's useful. Leske happily and willingingly jumped into Jarvia's bed to stay alive.

[sami jo]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Hm... Point taken.

Also remember than Loghain's loyalty was to Maric and Fereldan, not Cailan. He was looking at what Cailan was doing at Ostagar as traitorous to the Fereldan he and Maric had helped free. In his eye, leaving the boy to die at the hands of the Darkspawn was his way of trying to save Fereldan once more. All he did was nearly destroy what he loved so much.

Loghain is a very sad character.  His notion that the ends justify the means rubs me wrong, particularly with the slavery.  I doubt he would harbor many regrets about his actions had he succeeded in defeating the darkspawn and becoming regent.  It would all have been justifiable to him.  His regrets center around having possibly doomed Fereldon, not having caused the death and suffering of so many.  His back story is very sad, but it made him into a man with a very skewed set of morals.  And he is clearly outright paranoid about Orlais.  I simply don't trust the perceptions of either he or his daughter, particularly regarding Cailin.

[Raiynsong]

I don't mind orzammar if I do it in 2-3 nights. I do the city quests, then go back to camp for a snuggle. maybe some Denerim side quests. Then I do all but trenches, back for another snuggle. then do the rest.

Broodmother---wow Hespith's voice gets to me EVERY time. I end up depressed as hell every time I play that part of the game. There is NO WAY I could side with Branka after that. It also makes some of my characters FREAK OUT at the possibility of having to end my wardeny life down in the dark. One game I'm going to have to play a character that goes there and is so freaked out she does the US ending..



I've played more of Awakenings now and I don't mind the game or quests--they can be fun. I find Velanna a bit annoying. I wanted to like her because she's Dalish but I just find her very very shrill. I like the others now but haven't gotten the dwarf chick yet. But I DO miss my companions from Origins.. It will be nice to finish up this game and then go back and finish up an Origins character.

[Cuddlezarro]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Mhm. Wasn't too worked up over it. Basterd betrayed Amalia. He deserved death.

and a Certain Antivan elf tried to kill you and you spared his life

Yes, but he didn't try to rationalize his choices in the conversation, he told Amalia all the information she wanted, and decided against her better judgement to let him live. Besides, he's useful. Leske happily and willingingly jumped into Jarvia's bed to stay alive.

people can do horrible things to stay alive its not like you where you get the run around and be hero he still had to live in that hellhole and Jarvia is a vengful psycho

[Raiynsong]

After reading the books I find Loghain's actions perfectly understandable. He cant stand the idea of Orlais being anywhere near Ferelden, he doesn't see the few Gray Wardens at Ostagar being that crucial to defeating what he isn't sure is a blight, and Cailan is an idiot. I really believe he thought he was "saving" the army from being wasted at Ostagar. That said, what he does is despicable, and I think he himself recognizes it because he ends up accepting his death easily enough if the Warden wins and wants to kill him. And if you let him live, he's pretty honorable there, too. Of course, this is from a human noble veiwpoint. I'm not sure an elf would feel the same way. A dwarf could---they're so used to political intrigue they might as well be from Chicago.

[SurrealSadi]

sami jo wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Hm... Point taken.

Also remember than Loghain's loyalty was to Maric and Fereldan, not Cailan. He was looking at what Cailan was doing at Ostagar as traitorous to the Fereldan he and Maric had helped free. In his eye, leaving the boy to die at the hands of the Darkspawn was his way of trying to save Fereldan once more. All he did was nearly destroy what he loved so much.

Loghain is a very sad character.  His notion that the ends justify the means rubs me wrong, particularly with the slavery.  I doubt he would harbor many regrets about his actions had he succeeded in defeating the darkspawn and becoming regent.  It would all have been justifiable to him.  His regrets center around having possibly doomed Fereldon, not having caused the death and suffering of so many.  His back story is very sad, but it made him into a man with a very skewed set of morals.  And he is clearly outright paranoid about Orlais.  I simply don't trust the perceptions of either he or his daughter, particularly regarding Cailin.

Yes, Loghain is very, very skewed, and that has had an influence on Anora. She grew up under a paranoid, influential and powerful man. As such, she desires the same power her father has, and learns very quickly how to get it. Manipulation and marriage to a higher power than her father. As soon as Cailan became King, Anora was pretty much all set to rule things while Cailan played Hero, or at least tried to. This reasoning alone is why I won't make Alistair marry Anora again. I did that in one playthrough, and refuse to do so again. Hardened Alistair is a MUCH better ruler than Anora could ever be.

[SurrealSadi]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Mhm. Wasn't too worked up over it. Basterd betrayed Amalia. He deserved death.

and a Certain Antivan elf tried to kill you and you spared his life

Yes, but he didn't try to rationalize his choices in the conversation, he told Amalia all the information she wanted, and decided against her better judgement to let him live. Besides, he's useful. Leske happily and willingingly jumped into Jarvia's bed to stay alive.

people can do horrible things to stay alive its not like you where you get the run around and be hero he still had to live in that hellhole and Jarvia is a vengful psycho

He could have headed for the surface. The surface is a BIG place, and Jarvia would have been hard-pressed to find him there. No, instead he chose to happily join in with Queen Psycho and betray the only person he really called friend.

[Cuddlezarro]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Mhm. Wasn't too worked up over it. Basterd betrayed Amalia. He deserved death.

and a Certain Antivan elf tried to kill you and you spared his life

Yes, but he didn't try to rationalize his choices in the conversation, he told Amalia all the information she wanted, and decided against her better judgement to let him live. Besides, he's useful. Leske happily and willingingly jumped into Jarvia's bed to stay alive.

people can do horrible things to stay alive its not like you where you get the run around and be hero he still had to live in that hellhole and Jarvia is a vengful psycho

He could have headed for the surface. The surface is a BIG place, and Jarvia would have been hard-pressed to find him there. No, instead he chose to happily join in with Queen Psycho and betray the only person he really called friend.

you sound like it was easy to just pack up and move its not like you or your family even moved to the surface infact you only ended up on the surface because you join the grey wardens

even your sister in the origin is like when you ask the right questions "where would we go? the surface!?" also leske was not exactly the strongest willed person (see conversation with rica when you say you killed leske)

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 mars 2010 - 03:17 .

[SurrealSadi]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Mhm. Wasn't too worked up over it. Basterd betrayed Amalia. He deserved death.

and a Certain Antivan elf tried to kill you and you spared his life

Yes, but he didn't try to rationalize his choices in the conversation, he told Amalia all the information she wanted, and decided against her better judgement to let him live. Besides, he's useful. Leske happily and willingingly jumped into Jarvia's bed to stay alive.

people can do horrible things to stay alive its not like you where you get the run around and be hero he still had to live in that hellhole and Jarvia is a vengful psycho

He could have headed for the surface. The surface is a BIG place, and Jarvia would have been hard-pressed to find him there. No, instead he chose to happily join in with Queen Psycho and betray the only person he really called friend.

you sound like it was easy to just pack up and move its not like you or your family even moved to the surface infact you only ended up on the surface because you join the grey wardens

even your sister in the origin is like when you ask the right questions "like what move to the surface!?"

To leave Dust Town? I think going to the surface would have been better than betraying a friend.

Rica had a Noble who was all set to get her into his bed and potentially produce a son. In fact, when you get back to Orzammar, you learn that you have a nephew, and you're now part of a Noble House(being nice on spoiler, just in case ). She wouldn't want to hop to the surface.

Ah well. Let's just agree to disagree. You see it one way, I see it another.

[Cuddlezarro]

Rica getting with Bhelen was a very recent development so the "not wanting to hop to the surface because she was going to be a noble" excuse doesnt exactly fly when theres still a massive amount of time before that

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 18 mars 2010 - 03:28 .

[sami jo]

Raiynsong wrote...

After reading the books I find Loghain's actions perfectly understandable. He cant stand the idea of Orlais being anywhere near Ferelden, he doesn't see the few Gray Wardens at Ostagar being that crucial to defeating what he isn't sure is a blight, and Cailan is an idiot. I really believe he thought he was "saving" the army from being wasted at Ostagar. That said, what he does is despicable, and I think he himself recognizes it because he ends up accepting his death easily enough if the Warden wins and wants to kill him. And if you let him live, he's pretty honorable there, too. Of course, this is from a human noble veiwpoint. I'm not sure an elf would feel the same way. A dwarf could---they're so used to political intrigue they might as well be from Chicago.

My elves have all had a very hard time with the slavery.  Honestly, all of my characters have had a hard time with it.  Most of the rest of what he did could be placed in some sort of context, but the notion that it was acceptable to sell people  to Tevinter, certainly as much of an enemy historically as Orlais, was disturbing.  He had greater respect for mabari than the elves.  (The Orlesians were vile beings for the way they treated his mabari, but it was perfectly acceptable to do far worse to the elves?)  And he never seemed particularly sorry about that particular decision.  He may not have intended for Cailin to die, or Eamon.  He may have thought he was saving Fereldon's armies at Ostagar.  He may have thought that the Wardens were part of a secret invasion plan from Orlais.  I may have missed it, but I never saw or heard anything from him that would suggest he saw selling the elves into slavery as anything worse than selling off a herd of cattle.  It is entirely possible I missed it.  I can understand how the man would have become who he was, and it doesn't feel right not to accept when he concedes. 

[SurrealSadi]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Rica getting with Bhelen was a very recent development so the "not wanting to hop to the surface because she was going to be a noble" excuse doesnt exactly fly

Rica mentions in the Origin that she has a potential Noble patron. I assume it had been Bhelen.

[SurrealSadi]

sami jo wrote...

Raiynsong wrote...

After reading the books I find Loghain's actions perfectly understandable. He cant stand the idea of Orlais being anywhere near Ferelden, he doesn't see the few Gray Wardens at Ostagar being that crucial to defeating what he isn't sure is a blight, and Cailan is an idiot. I really believe he thought he was "saving" the army from being wasted at Ostagar. That said, what he does is despicable, and I think he himself recognizes it because he ends up accepting his death easily enough if the Warden wins and wants to kill him. And if you let him live, he's pretty honorable there, too. Of course, this is from a human noble veiwpoint. I'm not sure an elf would feel the same way. A dwarf could---they're so used to political intrigue they might as well be from Chicago.

My elves have all had a very hard time with the slavery.  Honestly, all of my characters have had a hard time with it.  Most of the rest of what he did could be placed in some sort of context, but the notion that it was acceptable to sell people  to Tevinter, certainly as much of an enemy historically as Orlais, was disturbing.  He had greater respect for mabari than the elves.  (The Orlesians were vile beings for the way they treated his mabari, but it was perfectly acceptable to do far worse to the elves?)  And he never seemed particularly sorry about that particular decision.  He may not have intended for Cailin to die, or Eamon.  He may have thought he was saving Fereldon's armies at Ostagar.  He may have thought that the Wardens were part of a secret invasion plan from Orlais.  I may have missed it, but I never saw or heard anything from him that would suggest he saw selling the elves into slavery as anything worse than selling off a herd of cattle.  It is entirely possible I missed it.  I can understand how the man would have become who he was, and it doesn't feel right not to accept when he concedes. 

When you bring up the slavery in the Landsmeet, he distinctly says that the Alienage is unsalvagable. That says a lot, making me believe that he feels the elves have lost whatever standing they had thanks to the riots, and decided it best to just get rid of them all.

[ejoslin]

You have to keep in mind the absolute fear that dwarves have of the surface. Plus, getting out of the ghetto -- it may never even occurred to Leske that that was an option. He would be hunted by Jarvia anyway, and she had a lot of surface connections so even leaving dust town wouldn't have protected him.

I felt bad for him, actually. In many ways, his friend betrayed him. He was left alone to face the wrath of the most powerful criminal in the city -- and he had just been one of the killers of her lover. He probably would have had a horrible death had he not joined her.

Ok, DA:O definitely leaves me feeling far more warm and fuzzy. I played a bit more awakenings, and bad things just happened, and I just had to... shrug.

Modifié par ejoslin, 18 mars 2010 - 03:40 .

[SurrealSadi]

And in comes ejoslin who takes all my points and makes them moot

[Cuddlezarro]

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Rica getting with Bhelen was a very recent development so the "not wanting to hop to the surface because she was going to be a noble" excuse doesnt exactly fly

Rica mentions in the Origin that she has a potential Noble patron. I assume it had been Bhelen.

I was talking about the origin when I said it was a recent development >_>

[ejoslin]

SurrealSadi wrote...

And in comes ejoslin who takes all my points and makes them moot

Oh, I felt so horrible after doing the casteless homecoming. Talk about two total and complete victims of circumstance. What struck me as saddest was at that point, he couldn't even turn against Jarvia to save himself.  His best friend, though, had left him to a horrible fate, so I can even understand that. 

Casteless is definitely the saddest origin.  With a mother so bad that Morrigan even offers a kindly word if she's with you when you go back.  Rica was so special though.  I was so happy that things turned out for her the way they did.  

*sigh* I think after I finish slogging through awakenings, I'll play a Casteless again.  With long hair to hide the misplacement of the kiss!  Gah, I miss Zevran in awakenings for sure.  Night all!

[SurrealSadi]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

SurrealSadi wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Rica getting with Bhelen was a very recent development so the "not wanting to hop to the surface because she was going to be a noble" excuse doesnt exactly fly

Rica mentions in the Origin that she has a potential Noble patron. I assume it had been Bhelen.

I was talking about the origin when I said it was a recent development >_>

<.< Okay, I'm reading things totally wrong... Must not have enough caffiene, or something, in my system... My apologies.

@ejoslin: Amalia felt betrayed, since it was really her fault her and Leske got on Bherat and Jarvia's bad sides. She had wanted to stay, but talking to Rica convinced her to go. Ah well. We all play our characters differently. Have a good night!

[Raiynsong]

I agree about the elves. I had a tough time with the slavery issue as well. My nobles blamed that on Rendon Howe. Howe was the evil bastard that warped Loghain, who was so afraid of and Orlesian invasion that he listened to him I did have an elf that was intending to let Loghain live and at the end of her playthrough I just couldn't do it. _Perhaps_ an elf mage could --- IF she was taken early enough that she felt no kindred spirit for the elves and thought that the priority was having more wardens. After all, Riordan seems like a very honorable man, and was very very nice to my elven characters, and yet he thought letting Loghain live was a good idea.



I need to finish my two dwarven ladies... I really liked Leske as my commoner buddy (I find him much more appealing than Oghran, who I just don't really like all that much). Too bad he's going to disappoint me..

[Cuddlezarro]

[quote]<.< Okay, I'm reading things totally wrong... Must not have enough caffiene, or something, in my system... My apologies. [quote]



you need more Zev squee in your system

[SurrealSadi]

[quote]Cuddlezarro wrote...

[quote]

you need more Zev squee in your system

[/quote]
*happy-squee* Thanks! Helps since I'm currently solo-ing the Fade