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[Addai]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

I seem to recall Alistair saying that "zevs a lucky guy" during his "him or me" conversation

As I recall, it's "Zevran's a lucky bastard, and that's all I'm going to say."  My memory is bad though.

[willikat]

ejoslin wrote...

 Hmmm, I am completely buying one of these.  Which, while I'm in good shape, will look pretty strange on my middle-aged body I'm sure!  Just because, well, because!  Maybe I'll just wear it when I sleep.

Squueeeeee! The minute work is done, this is MINE.  Thanks SO MUCH for the link, ejoslin! (*sends you a chocolate-covered Zevran*)

[ejoslin]

OOOOH! Cleanup time! Zevran AND chocolate. All that I need is a silk blindfold and it's Christmas!

[willikat]

Sannox wrote...

Oh, that's funny, I was listening to exactly the same song and thinking much the same thing.  'Bad romance' reminded me of his corny romance lines. 

When my mage was rushing through so he could get to the Landsmeet and the Taliesin encounter (did anything else happen at the Landsmeet?), I was playing that song and Lady Gaga wailing near the end 'I don't want to be friends!  I don't want to be friends!' made me laugh - so true. 

Heee! Good, I'm not the only one.  Yes. And yes. And yes again to the "I don't want to be friends!" wailing.  Very true, also.  I was so focused on the leather (*drools*) that I didn't think about that part.  Awesome-ness

[willikat]

Eislyn wrote...

I love it!  :happy:   *goes off to think about leather-studded kisses*

Enjoy, Eislyn!  I had much fun with that image last night while my mage was getting his "tent time"

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Funny thing is +12 is exactly the approval I get when my warden asks him to the tent first. I know you can get up to +23, but I always have to ask about love!

Zevran hates me.  I think the most I've gotten for a tenting is +16, and as mentioned, Sula got -2 for asking him to the tent and then asking him about love.

I can really only blame myself, however.  I was thinking about it and realize that I always inflict elf women on Zevran who are either virginal and shy or hung up on other men, and on Alistair I inflict horny noblewomen who can't wait to get him out of his pretty armor so they can start corrupting him.  The guys would no doubt be happier if it were the other way around.  LOL

[ejoslin]

It's more to do with how you initiate the encounter. If you're too forward (I bet you're good at a lot of things) you don't gain nearly as many points as you do being playful back to him. Telling him to get into the damned tent is always good too!

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...

Sannox . . . *grin* You and I are SO much alike in this. I feel stupid some times that I know the answers to all of these questions, down to facial expressions in the tent.

Leliana also gets jealous, though. I don't think it's an Alstair/Zevran exclusive thing. And from what you say, it happens with Morrigan too.

And no, it's ANY kiss in public with the romance turned on that will make Zevran/Leliana jealous. It's not tied to approval -- it's tied to being romanced. And don't let Zevran fool you -- he's jealous. He tries hard to make it sound casual, but it's confirmed by the toolset, he's trying but not quite succeeding at making things sound like they're no big deal.

With Alistair, I don't think it's real animosity between them so much as testosterone poisoning.

Edit: It's a tricky thing about Zevran's romance.  What he is saying, and what his reactions are, are often quite different.  The most obvious hint that he's jealous is of course the kissing in public and the big approval drop that goes with it.  But also, there are answers you can take when he's forcing you to choose that show it pretty clearly as well -- and how relieved and happy he is if the warden picks him though he's fully expecting to be dumped.

But he'll tell you that he'll happily step aside, then you're hit with a HUGE approval drop.  Yeh, that's happy all right.

Edit: because obviously I can't remember the difference between a toolbox, a toolkit, and a toolset!  Took me three tries to get it right. 

But I think his reaction when you're choosing is not about sexual jealousy but about wanting you.    He wants you to choose him and is delighted when you do, and upset when you don't.   I think his loss of approval is about losing you (not about you having sex with someone else)  He doesn't feel he has any claim on you though, so it's difficult to imagine him getting indignant about a kiss. 

I agree that it definitely doesn't seem casual, but going from what he says later, I think he is still at the 'confused' stage - he doesn't know why it upsets him so much.  

I find the scene after the Taliesin encounter so touching, and I know we talked about which tent invitation he meant that got him confused - I do think it's the first ime - that he starts falling in love right at the begining.   So I see the 'choosing' dialogues (in retrospect) as the words of somebody who is falling in love but doesn't know it.   (And I like to think that's the case even if you never see the romance through to the end.   I just want to think of it that way).    I think he geuninely is not jealous (I've thought about it a lot though, so it's ambiguous), but if he is, he's jealous of the love/adoration rather than the sex/friendship.  If the kiss isn't love/adoration, then he wouldn't be jealous. 

ETA: I think it's great that you know all the facial expressions!   I feel like I can't know enough.   The more I find out the more interested I get.   I'm trying to play Awakenings but keep going back to Origins to replay Zevran scenes and see if notice anything new.  

Modifié par Sannox, 19 mars 2010 - 08:25 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

It's more to do with how you initiate the encounter. If you're too forward (I bet you're good at a lot of things) you don't gain nearly as many points as you do being playful back to him. Telling him to get into the damned tent is always good too!

I don't remember how my city elf initiated, but Sula was definitely not forward.  She tried to back out ("forget I said anything").  That's probably why, as aforementioned, my approval stays low...  my city elf was hung up on Nelaros and Sula was intimidated and shy.  Hence why I also don't have the problem that others do, of having Zevran hit 100 very early.  It's all good.  I like seeing the things at end-game that he gives approval bumps for.

[Sresla]

ejoslin wrote...

Sresla, is it possible that you turned off the romance at the very end? It's possible to do it at the gates AND at the ceremony. Stupid too

No, 100% not possible. Before I imported, I picked the save that didn't have me talking to Zevran at the ceremony, went up, talked to him (just remembered that he mentioned returning to the Warden fold, so that was my boon), told him that I'd only go if he went with me, he gave me the, "Caught me, now you're stuck with me line", double checked, 100 love, and we went back to camp and went to the tent before I saved and imported (that's how they say goodbye in Antiva, I SWEAR).

So either:

a) It's because THAT save was also a political marriage to Anora (which I
thought I'd deleted, I didn't even check to see who was on the throne,
didn't know until it was Anora who came to the Keep to greet me)
It's because the card is tied to the proposal and not the earring
c) It's because I'm a guy
d) It's a bug

This new save that I'll be using, I wiped all the way back to Taliesin, as I said, I won't marry Anora this time (it was a mistake to go that route anyway, not like I'd screw that frigid ****, wish I could have told her that at Vigil's Keep, other than the "Yes, I know you wish I was dead" line which wasn't bad but not really extreme enough). It'll probably take me all weekend to get back through DA:O & A, but if I don't get it again (even if I hate the card), I'll be perturbed.

[Sannox]

Addai67 wrote...
I think they eventually come to detente, but in the way I imagine it with my HNF, there will always be something going on under the surface.  I don't imagine Alistair being thrilled that she kept Zevran at court and relies on him so much.

Yes, on my first playthrough Alistair got romanced then dumped fairly early on and spent most ot the time as 'the ex', almost all of it teamed up with Zevran.  I imagined a bit of an atmosphere.

[Cuddlezarro]

wait you get to tell Anora ""Yes, I know you wish I was dead""



such a loving marriage she and Xander are going to have XDXDXD

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...
But I think his reaction when you're choosing is not about sexual jealousy but about wanting you.    He wants you to choose him and is delighted when you do, and upset when you don't.   I think his loss of approval is about losing you (not about you having sex with someone else)  He doesn't feel he has any claim on you though, so it's difficult to imagine him getting indignant about a kiss. 

I agree that it definitely doesn't seem casual, but going from what he says later, I think he is still at the 'confused' stage - he doesn't know why it upsets him so much.  

I find the scene after the Taliesin encounter so touching, and I know we talked about which tent invitation he meant that got him confused - I do think it's the first ime - that he starts falling in love right at the begining.   So I see the 'choosing' dialogues (in retrospect) as the words of somebody who is falling in love but doesn't know it.   (And I like to think that's the case even if you never see the romance through to the end.   I just want to think of it that way).    I think he geuninely is not jealous (I've thought about it a lot though, so it's ambiguous), but if he is, he's jealous of the love/adoration rather than the sex/friendship.  If the kiss isn't love/adoration, then he wouldn't be jealous. 

Of course he wants you and is hurt if you choose someone else.  The point is, though, is HE forces the choice if you approach him, and only if the other person is also at 71+ adore.  I also don't think we're disagreeing with each other in most cases. I also think he was falling in love and was fighting it the entire time, and had NO clue what it was about.

Keep in mind, with Alistair, in order to kiss he has to be at 51 care, and again, with Zevran, the romance only has to be active (just double checked it -- yep, that's the only requirement).  Toolkit says his voice is mischievous, but, from what I see, his face is DEFINITELY annoyed.

None of the companions seem to mind if you're having sex with someone else as long as the approval is low.

Here is the toolkit line, though, that makes us all squee.

Warden: Why? Are you jealous?
Zevran: Jealous? <desc>Laughs</desc> Not I, no. But one does not need to be jealous to be leery of rushing headlong into... complicated situations. (amused -- but also broaching an awkward topic)
Zevran: You and I have had our fun, but if this thing between you and Alistair is leading somewhere, I'll happily step aside. Complication avoided. Everyone's the happier, yes? (makes it like it's no big thing)
Warden: It would be that easy, would it?
Zevran:  Oh, I don't know that "easy" is the right word. Perhaps "necessary" would be better. (trying to maintain his uncaring facade, not doing a very good job)
Zevran: I make no claims upon you, nor would I dream of such. You are free to pursue your fancies as you desire, and I would have it no other way. (being very reasonable)
Zevran: I suspect Alistair, however, would not feel the same way. If there is to be something between you and I, to string him along would only hurt him deeply. Surely you know this is true. (uncomfortable)
Warden: I suppose you're right.
Zevran: Then only one path lies before us, no? (said with a sigh of resignation)
Warden: I want you. No question.
Zevran: And glad I am to hear it. You will need to be the one that tells Alistair, however. (relieved)

*grin* I bolded a very important VO line, probably the one that makes me know that he is NOT being the most honest in all of this, probably most of all with himself.

[ejoslin]

Sresla wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Sresla, is it possible that you turned off the romance at the very end? It's possible to do it at the gates AND at the ceremony. Stupid too

No, 100% not possible. Before I imported, I picked the save that didn't have me talking to Zevran at the ceremony, went up, talked to him (just remembered that he mentioned returning to the Warden fold, so that was my boon), told him that I'd only go if he went with me, he gave me the, "Caught me, now you're stuck with me line", double checked, 100 love, and we went back to camp and went to the tent before I saved and imported (that's how they say goodbye in Antiva, I SWEAR).

So either:

a) It's because THAT save was also a political marriage to Anora (which I
thought I'd deleted, I didn't even check to see who was on the throne,
didn't know until it was Anora who came to the Keep to greet me)
It's because the card is tied to the proposal and not the earring
c) It's because I'm a guy
d) It's a bug

This new save that I'll be using, I wiped all the way back to Taliesin, as I said, I won't marry Anora this time (it was a mistake to go that route anyway, not like I'd screw that frigid ****, wish I could have told her that at Vigil's Keep, other than the "Yes, I know you wish I was dead" line which wasn't bad but not really extreme enough). It'll probably take me all weekend to get back through DA:O & A, but if I don't get it again (even if I hate the card), I'll be perturbed.

Bet it's the Anora marriage.  With my political marriage to Alistair, it was apparent that it became a love match in the import.  I doubt it's tied to the proposal -- that dialog ends the same as it does if you already have the earring.

You can't go chasing after Zevran if you're king, after all.  Was there any reference to that?

[Charsen]

ejoslin wrote...
You can't go chasing after Zevran if you're king, after all.  Was there any reference to that?

not only that, but the Crows are a major faction in Antivan society. if the King of Fereldan were to go into their country to potentially assume control over a major faction in Antiva... or to destroy said faction altogether, well, that's surely the biggest declaration of war that could be made, right?

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
You can't go chasing after Zevran if you're king, after all.  Was there any reference to that?

not only that, but the Crows are a major faction in Antivan society. if the King of Fereldan were to go into their country to potentially assume control over a major faction in Antiva... or to destroy said faction altogether, well, that's surely the biggest declaration of war that could be made, right?

I would like to point out that Antiva has no standing military at all

them declairing war wouldent be much use since the crows are pretty much the antivan army so to speak

[Charsen]

true, but does it matter if they have a standing army when they have legions of assassins? at least you can see troops marching toward your borders with a standing army.

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

true, but does it matter if they have a standing army when they have legions of assassins? at least you can see troops marching toward your borders with a standing army.

and thats why you take over said legion of assassins before you invade!

[ejoslin]

My only real point was, if you're the monarch, you can't just leave and chase your lover. Despite what the DA:O epilogues say!

Edit: well, maybe I didn't say that at ALL.  I do know that the romance with Zevran seems to be over if the warden is married to Alistair.  Which is one more reason NOT to have that royal scandal!

Modifié par ejoslin, 19 mars 2010 - 08:50 .

[Charsen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

true, but does it matter if they have a standing army when they have legions of assassins? at least you can see troops marching toward your borders with a standing army.

and thats why you take over said legion of assassins before you invade!

but there are other assassin factions than the Crows, right? otherwise, the Crows would be the only faction and therefore they would just be the defacto government

[Sannox]

@ ejoslin - 'Mischievous' would make more sense, definitely. But I agree, he sounds annoyed.



I think I'm only disagreeing over the jealousy (not his feelings in general). The toolkit does say 'amused' when you suggest he might be jealous.



I like your bolded line about him trying to project an 'uncaring' attitude. I had more to say on that but have to rush, unfortunately! If the topic hasn't moved on to much I'll get back to you later .

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

true, but does it matter if they have a standing army when they have legions of assassins? at least you can see troops marching toward your borders with a standing army.

and thats why you take over said legion of assassins before you invade!

but there are other assassin factions than the Crows, right? otherwise, the Crows would be the only faction and therefore they would just be the defacto government

Considering that the crows are the reason that no one bothers invading them I would say *no* or if they do exist they arnt even close to threatening the crows standing

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

@ ejoslin - 'Mischievous' would make more sense, definitely. But I agree, he sounds annoyed.

I think I'm only disagreeing over the jealousy (not his feelings in general). The toolkit does say 'amused' when you suggest he might be jealous.

I like your bolded line about him trying to project an 'uncaring' attitude. I had more to say on that but have to rush, unfortunately! If the topic hasn't moved on to much I'll get back to you later .

Amused but awkward.  *grin* and you know the topic will have moved on.  Just move it on back! 

[Raiynsong]

I get the impression the crows are always working through the nobles and that they prefer it that way...no matter WHO wins, they are the power behind the throne.



Love your letter Rhinna





I'm becoming a bit sad because I think I'm going to be in the market for a new game soon. Anyone with good ideas, I'd appreciate a pm... Life post DA:O will be hard but maybe necessary (trying to maintain my uncaring facade...)

[jenovan]

*quick break from the gardening*

Hmm, yes, I do think the Crows are, as Zevran mentions, tied up in the Antivan monarchy, so they sort of are an element (although a covert one) of the government in that country.  Even if the merchant princes are the ones with the real ruling power, they're hiring Crows, too, I'm sure...

And CHARSEN!  I was coming back here to unthank you for ever mentioning "Bad Romance"!   Because I had to go buy the album (yesterday, coincidentally... must have been Gaga night, eh?) and now I can NOT 1) get the song out of my head, and 2) stop thinking of it in terms of Zevran and Taliesen.
(No, I suppose it isn't really a bad thing, but still!)

I will attend to Sresla's letter-challenge later.

*grabs camera and runs off to take photo of sleepy toad dug up in the garden*