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What's the (Romantic) Appeal of Zevran?


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#10651
Nonvita

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Holy mother of mercy there's no way to catch up on this thread after a break!

*skips over the past 50 pages*
*quietly sneaks past the past lovers discussion*
*as usual has nothing to add to the Taliesan discussion*
*is appreciative of the efforts made to avoid Awakening spoilers*
*applauds Charsen as always*

Meh, all I can throw in are some Zevran pics from my HN (who I finally finished last night). Some bumps in the road along the way- Landsmeet voted me down 4-2 after Anora betrayed me, found out Zevran wasn't nearly as good against Loghain as my HN (and I so wanted him to be my champion :(), and forgot to stock up on spirit resist gear before the AD. But all turned out well in the end!

Um, Zevran, wth are you doing?
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And apparently it's not enough staring at people *inside* the computer anymore...
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Modifié par Nonvita, 21 mars 2010 - 06:00 .


#10652
Cuddlezarro

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Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

yay slobber!


your avatar and your happy comment dont go together since he looks like hes so serious... *tries to remedy that by being a (delightfully) evil distraction again*


rofl.. yeah, definitely a distraction :devil: 
especially since i was working on the Alistair convo at the time. I'm going to look into making a slap alistair mod one day, i swear.

But, I am now finished fleshing out the core dialogue components of the Shianni conversation with Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana, and halfway done with Zev. I have added a bunch of conditionals for different party members, plot elements, etc too. Zevran will be next, and then I have to tie in a few more random comments from party members and I'm looking at a release later this week (longer than expected due to non-DA things)

*edit* changed the avatar... it goes with mood :D


but it was Alistair so it wasnt *that* important and you most certanly enjoyed it(expecially that last distraction I sent you I hope :3) also why a slap Alistair mod? there needs a slap Zevran (on the ass) mod before that! :devil:

and yay more mods~:wub: *wishes I could change my avatar...stupid useless internet router grrrrr*

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 21 mars 2010 - 06:03 .


#10653
Addai

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Nonvita wrote...
found out Zevran wasn't nearly as good against Loghain as my HN (and I so wanted him to be my champion :(),

Really?  He's made Loghain mincemeat any time I've had him do it.

#10654
ejoslin

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Charsen wrote...
rofl.. yeah, definitely a distraction :devil: 
especially since i was working on the Alistair convo at the time. I'm going to look into making a slap alistair mod one day, i swear.

But, I am now finished fleshing out the core dialogue components of the Shianni conversation with Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana, and halfway done with Zev. I have added a bunch of conditionals for different party members, plot elements, etc too. Zevran will be next, and then I have to tie in a few more random comments from party members and I'm looking at a release later this week (longer than expected due to non-DA things)

*edit* changed the avatar... it goes with mood :D


I like the change with your avatar!  And I'm really looking forward to seeing the changes you make there.  Though I have to admit I'm glad I snagged your first effort!  

I have to agree with CZ, a slap Zevran on the ass mod would be great!  Especially if he smacked back.

#10655
Cuddlezarro

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I have to agree with CZ, a slap Zevran on the ass mod would be great! Especially if he smacked back.




bonus points if he does that sexy laugh he does when you click on him some times

#10656
ejoslin

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Addai67 wrote...

Nonvita wrote...
found out Zevran wasn't nearly as good against Loghain as my HN (and I so wanted him to be my champion :(),

Really?  He's made Loghain mincemeat any time I've had him do it.


Me too.  I hit Mark of Death, run up with dirty fighting and a stunning poison, the paralyze rune procs usually before dirty fighting wears off, and Loghain is dead!  Though if I forget to switch off momentum before entering the landsmeet, then it goes a little slower waiting for it to refresh (SO stupid that it cancels itself).

#10657
TripLight

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Nonvita wrote...

And apparently it's not enough staring at people *inside* the computer anymore...
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I lol'ed hard when I saw this. Great Shot NonVita!

#10658
Sannox

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Does Zevran betray Taliesin? Kind of, I think, even though he doesn't have much choice.



From Taliesin's point of view - he knew why Zevran took the contract. When Zevran survives, his life is forfeit - except that Zevran apparently allies with the grey wardens. (Zevran himself explains that alone he will be dead, but nobody wants to take on a grey warden, unless they're suicidal).



Taliesin must know that. We don't know what he feels about the Crows. Zevran does give an inkling about his loyalty to the Crows when he spits in Rinna's face for betraying them (although I think it's the personal betrayal which hurts the most). Zevran's opinion changes after that incident, but Taliesin is still coming at it from the angle of not knowing any other life, maybe being proud of the status, etc. He may not see bringing Zevran back as bringing him back to slavery.



And at that point Zevran doesn't have freedom, anyway. As far as Taliesin knows, he has to serve the Grey Warden for his own safety. He has no other options. (For someone who likes the finer things in life, the idea of living on a campsite in a cold, wet, dreary country might be unappealing). So I don't think Taliesin is trying to bring him back to anything worse. I imagine he thinks Zevran only doesn't come back because he would be killed.



Taliesin volunteers for the contract at great personal risk (he may have to confront a grey warden). It may be that he does so, because he knows that anybody else will kill Zevran and he wants to bring him back. It may be that nobody else volunteers (quite likely). Either way, he will put his life on the line to find Zevran, to bring him back or to avenge his death. Thinking about it, I believe he was likely in love with Zevran. He comes to the encounter to save him. And this is somebody who I presume had the same 'training' as Zevran, and who tries to be 'cold'.



Nobody needed to die, if Zevran had gone with Taliesin and the warden let him. It's his choice that leads to Taliesin's death. His reasons are sound, but Taliesin ends up the victim - I think it is a kind of betrayal, given what Taliesin risked to have him back.

#10659
Nonvita

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ejoslin wrote...

Me too.  I hit Mark of Death, run up with dirty fighting and a stunning poison, the paralyze rune procs usually before dirty fighting wears off, and Loghain is dead!  Though if I forget to switch off momentum before entering the landsmeet, then it goes a little slower waiting for it to refresh (SO stupid that it cancels itself).


Well, my problem was probably that I forgot prepare ahead of time. Hogged all the paralyze runes for myself and accidentally vendored all the poisons. So I followed that same game plan but with rather lesser results. :P And I *hate* that momentum switches off with that battle! Arrrrrrg.

I also hate how that whole scene has zero places to save in the middle, so if things go poorly once, you get to do it all over again. <_<

#10660
Charsen

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 hah Nonvita, is that Zevran in the matrix or something?...in his curling accent he says, "I know kung foo."  


Cuddlezarro wrote...
but it was Alistair so it wasnt *that* important and you most certanly enjoyed it(expecially that last distraction I sent you) also why a slap Alistair mod? there needs a slap Zevran (on the ass) mod before that! :devil:
and yay more mods~:wub: *wishes I could change my avatar...stupid useless internet router grrrrr*


slap zev on the ass AND a return slap?  ok, that should probably take precedence :devil:

Make sure your router and any firewalls you have are not blocking ports 80, 443, and 18081
don't forget windows firewall, or virus software with blocking components, or any other blockers

Modifié par Charsen, 21 mars 2010 - 06:28 .


#10661
ejoslin

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Poking my nose in the toolset (not in the mood for a Zevran breakup today at ALL), I found something a little interesting in the poetry reading. It's only a breakup if you haven't been to the tent. It's not a breakup going this way if you have been.

Zevran: I had sex with her anyway, but that goes without saying. She still had to die. The poem was amusing at the time, however, and thus I've always remembered it. (wistful memory)
Warden: So you thought to seduce me with it?
Zevran: Hmmm... now that is a thought, isn't it? Would it work? (suggestive)
Warden: Not interested. At all.
Zevran: Ahhh. Hmm. And here I thought we were building up towards something. Oh well. (disappointed)

romance unset and all.

If you HAVE been to the tent, it goes this way.

Zevran: Truly? You could have fooled me. (amused)

I suppose it does make sense that if you haven't been to the tent it's a breakup -- the answer really has a different meaning though it's exactly the same. Interesting how context means so much.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mars 2010 - 06:30 .


#10662
jenovan

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Charsen wrote...
rofl.. yeah, definitely a distraction :devil: 
especially since i was working on the Alistair convo at the time. I'm going to look into making a slap alistair mod one day, i swear.

But, I am now finished fleshing out the core dialogue components of the Shianni conversation with Alistair, Morrigan and Leliana, and halfway done with Zev. I have added a bunch of conditionals for different party members, plot elements, etc too. Zevran will be next, and then I have to tie in a few more random comments from party members and I'm looking at a release later this week (longer than expected due to non-DA things)

Slapping Alistair would be entertaining, but I have to admit, goosing Zevran would probably be moreso. :lol:

Can't wait for the Shianni stuff, though!  Squee!

Nonvita wrote...

And apparently it's not enough staring at people *inside* the computer anymore...
Image IPB

ROFL!  He looks so unimpressed with whatever's going on in the game. XD 

#10663
Sannox

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AndreaDraco wrote...

Just to know, am I the only hard-core Zevran's fan who's actually really, really, really enjoying Awakening despite the lack of our favorite elf? :D


I'm enjoying it, even though I keep going back to DA:O.   I've had to rethink the Zevran romance to make it work for me (I imported a character).   I was trying to explain why Zevran wasn't there, and it dawned on me that although he'd been welded to my side since I picked him up, that was because I kept bringing him with me.  The relationship would have developed anyway if I'd talked to him in camp and hadn't taken him out with me.  We wouldn't necessarily always be on a joint mission, and that was OK.  I tried to think of it as being like real life lovers who have separate, demanding jobs.   You can desparately love somebody, yet still go on necessary business trips without them. 

I also realised that it was in character that Zevran would try to sort out business in Antiva on his own, without putting you at risk or interfering with what you needed to do.   I loved the letters that people wrote here, and tried to imagine them in the game.  That all helped to make the separation 'work' for me.  

Now that that's sorted, I think what I'm enjoying most is knowing nothing about the game.  It's a new adventure.   I'm letting myself make bad choices and experiment.   It's fun going to new places, and so far I've been pleased with what I've seen.   I'm so glad that the companions conversations amongst themselves remain.  I love listening in.   I like the new companions.    I'm enjoying having new talents, althnough I'm a bit lost with them.  I can take my time and don't feel an urge to rush towards the Landsmeet.  I'm trying to ignore anything that doesn't fit.  

#10664
Cuddlezarro

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Charsen wrote...

 hah Nonvita, is that Zevran in the matrix or something?...in his curling accent he says, "I know kung foo."  


Cuddlezarro wrote...
but it was Alistair so it wasnt *that* important and you most certanly enjoyed it(expecially that last distraction I sent you) also why a slap Alistair mod? there needs a slap Zevran (on the ass) mod before that! :devil:
and yay more mods~:wub: *wishes I could change my avatar...stupid useless internet router grrrrr*


slap zev on the ass AND a return slap?  ok, that should probably take precedence :devil:

Make sure your router and any firewalls you have are not blocking ports 80, 443, and 18081
don't forget windows firewall, or virus software with blocking components, or any other blockers


its not the fire wall or ports problem they happen to be open its the actual router itself doing the blocking despite everything being opened and ****

and **** a slap zevran on the ass mod would be wonderful *tries to bribe you* :wub:

#10665
Nonvita

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jenovan wrote...

ROFL!  He looks so unimpressed with whatever's going on in the game. XD


Quick, CZ, we need a "Zevran is not impressed" banner!

Charsen wrote...
slap zev on the ass AND a return slap?  ok,
that should probably take precedence [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/devil.png[/smilie]


So hurry up and make it already! :lol:

Modifié par Nonvita, 21 mars 2010 - 06:40 .


#10666
Sannox

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Charsen wrote...
slap zev on the ass AND a return slap?  ok, that should probably take precedence :devil:


That gets my vote.   There can never be enough ass slapping. 

#10667
Cuddlezarro

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Nonvita wrote...

jenovan wrote...

ROFL!  He looks so unimpressed with whatever's going on in the game. XD 


Quick, CZ, we need a "Zevran is not impressed" banner!


Image IPB

#10668
Nonvita

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Cuddlezarro wrote...

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Those are two entirely different things!

#10669
EccentricSage

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ejoslin wrote...

I would not want the option to recruit Taliesen. Taliesen is Zevran's old life -- the warden is Zevran's new life.

Why Taliesen just tried to kill you you already know. The crows sent him to kill Zevran. You also know that Taliesen is responsible to kill the warden. Had Taliesen let them go via a [persuade] option, then maybe you could ask questions.

Edit: You get a good picture of the dynamic without asking questions.  The details -- I just don't see as relevant unless they stop Zevran from protecting the warden.  He protects her from the start -- it's only in this one incident that he doesn't.  Why? Because he feels the same for both Taliesen and the warden. It becomes very relevant. I just don't see, after he has moved beyond Taliesen, why the details of a past relationship is something that should matter.

Second edit: Addai67, I also think it's a glitch.  It makes no sense at all that he would approve of using blood magic or killing Isolde, no matter what. 


I don't think people whom you've cared for/who have cared for you should ever become irrelivent, even if you've moved on.  Taliesen clearly haddn't moved on and seemed in a state of disbelief reguarding Zevran's behavior.  The fact that Taliesen tries to kill you out of vengance if you killed Zevran tells me his mission isn't just business.  The Crows might think they sent him to tie up loose ends, but that's clearly not Taliesen's agenda.

If I were faced with a situation where I was in love with someone, and a former lover came back into their life only to subsequently die, I'd want to talk to my lover about it as deap down it might be bothering them.  Just because you find something better doesn't mean there aren't still going to be some feelings for what you had before.  Forinstance, you might care for someone, but not be in love with them.  Circumstances cause you to part ways, and you fall in love with someone else.  And then this someone who you cared for who felt an unrequited love walks back into your life... Would you really NOT care about them at all, all of a sudden, just because of your current love?  I think that would be kind of cold.

#10670
Charsen

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Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

 hah Nonvita, is that Zevran in the matrix or something?...in his curling accent he says, "I know kung foo."  


Cuddlezarro wrote...
but it was Alistair so it wasnt *that* important and you most certanly enjoyed it(expecially that last distraction I sent you) also why a slap Alistair mod? there needs a slap Zevran (on the ass) mod before that! :devil:
and yay more mods~:wub: *wishes I could change my avatar...stupid useless internet router grrrrr*


slap zev on the ass AND a return slap?  ok, that should probably take precedence :devil:

Make sure your router and any firewalls you have are not blocking ports 80, 443, and 18081
don't forget windows firewall, or virus software with blocking components, or any other blockers


its not the fire wall or ports problem they happen to be open its the actual router itself doing the blocking despite everything being opened and ****

and **** a slap zevran on the ass mod would be wonderful *tries to bribe you* :wub:


can you add it to the DMZ or port forward or something? i bet if you posted in the PC tech support they would know what to do
would be awesome to see Xander's oh so sullenly sexy face on the thread =P

#10671
EccentricSage

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Sannox wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Ok, I will have to disagree here.  I don't know the details of my husband's past lovers, and since he was 26 when we met, he had had a few -- they're in the past, and really, none of my business (though I suppose if I asked him for details, he'd give them to me, but I wouldn't want them anyway -- and after 20 years, I doubt he remembers anyway).  You know some about Taliesen, and most people have figured they were lovers as well, but if the relationship is over, why is it something that is relevant to your relationship?  It's only really relevant if he still has feelings for Taliesen.  It was his actions about Rinna, and how the whole incident changed him and shaped him, that made her worth telling about.  If the only point of that story was that he had loved someone else, I would also say that that was irrelevant. It was the fact that he killed her and learned that he was absolutely nothing to the crows and that he was trying to die which is what made that a relevant story.  

Edit: Even though I was 19 when I met my husband, I was no virgin either, and he never asked me about former boyfriends.  We both have met former lovers of the other, but the specifics?  Gah, I wouldn't even want them.  Maybe we're both unusual in that neither of us are threatened by the other's past lives.  If he still had cared for a woman, especially as much as he cared for me, then THAT could be pretty important information, but only if she became a part of our lives in some way.

Of course, I have known people who want to know every last detail about their lover. Since I'm not one of them, I can easily say that I think if Zevran has moved beyond Taliesen, it's irrelevant.  Then again, I'm a very strange person!


I'm very much with you on the real life stuff.   I've just deleted some stuff which I've decided was TMI, but yes, past history isn't normally an issue or a threat, as far as I'm concerned (and both me and my boyfriend have plenty :o).

But Taliesin, like Rinna, isn't just past sexual/love history.  You've just helped Zevran kill him.  Zevran pitted himself against you so he could die.  Taliesin does the same to get Zevran back.   The warden might not know (might not have heard the conversation with Alistair) that only Zevran would risk fighting a grey warden, but Zevran knows it - so must know what strong feelings Taliesin must have to 'volunteer'.    Zevran regretted Rinna, who hadn't betrayed him.  He must feel something when he kills Taliesin, especially as he betrayed Taliesin, not the other way around.   It's because of the warden, that he kills Taliesin too - you are partially responsible, unwittingly.

So it's a lot more complicated than Taliesin being an ex, and it's closely related to the Rinna story which made Zevran want to die and which brought you together.  I think that because of his love for the warden, he can deal with it, but my wardens would definitely want to know, even if he didn't feel he needed comfort.   He does tend to deal with everything on his own, but he shouldn't have to.


This exactly, and the whole reason for it you stated above.  (sorry I'm being so sloppy.  About to leave for work)

#10672
Cuddlezarro

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Charsen wrote...

can you add it to the DMZ or port forward or something? i bet if you posted in the PC tech support they would know what to do
would be awesome to see Xander's oh so sullenly sexy face on the thread =P


sadly we tried...we need to get rid of the bloody thing *glares*

as for Xander sullenly sexy face?


Image IPB

#10673
EccentricSage

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ejoslin wrote...

As a friend, you also can't ask him about it. He'll stay no matter what. That's why I view it the way I do. And given the disapproval you get from him if you ask him about it if he leaves (either -6 or -11, depending on whether you focus on him leaving or his past relationship with Taliesen, the smaller being asking "a good friend, was he"), it's not exactly somewhere Zevran wants to go. But he does feel he owes you an explanation, which is why you're given the opportunity and he tells you.

Edit: I also don't view Zevran as betraying Taliesen.  He's trying to escape.  He's a slave, and does not want to be.  Is it possible for him to betray his master?  Did Taliesen have feelings of caring for Zevran.  Sure.  Did they love each other? I doubt that seriously.  I would say, well, the feelings in approval ratings is in "care."  Taliesen wanted to bring Zevran back to a horrible life that Zevran is doing his best to break away from.  Taliesen is hunting him down.

If you kill Zevran, yes, Taliesen will say he's avenging him because Zevran was his friend.  If Zevran has left your party earlier (not the fight, but is gone), Taliesen lets you know he will continue his hunt.  

Second edit: Zevran choosing to tell the warden about Rinna is about him trusting her enough that he is willing to share the absolute ugliest thing he's ever done.  He swore he'd never tell anyone, yet he tells the warden, and it frees him to a certain extent.  If he were as tormented by killing Taliesen as he was about killing Rinna AND the entire after effects, then yes, that may be a relevant story to tell you.  And apparently, he only is at that point if he still has feelings for Taliesen.


I agree he's technicaly not betraying Taliesen, but it has to feel awful to have to fight and kill someone who clearly cared about you.  It's a shame the dialogue for talking to Zev about it isn't of a more sympathetic tone, as it is terribly tragic.

And of course Taliesen will try to finish Zev's job if Zev is still alive but not traveling with you.  Otherwise he can't make up a storry to cover for Zev.  Once again, it shows he cared.

#10674
ejoslin

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Sannox wrote...

Does Zevran betray Taliesin? Kind of, I think, even though he doesn't have much choice.

From Taliesin's point of view - he knew why Zevran took the contract. When Zevran survives, his life is forfeit - except that Zevran apparently allies with the grey wardens. (Zevran himself explains that alone he will be dead, but nobody wants to take on a grey warden, unless they're suicidal).

Taliesin must know that. We don't know what he feels about the Crows. Zevran does give an inkling about his loyalty to the Crows when he spits in Rinna's face for betraying them (although I think it's the personal betrayal which hurts the most). Zevran's opinion changes after that incident, but Taliesin is still coming at it from the angle of not knowing any other life, maybe being proud of the status, etc. He may not see bringing Zevran back as bringing him back to slavery.

And at that point Zevran doesn't have freedom, anyway. As far as Taliesin knows, he has to serve the Grey Warden for his own safety. He has no other options. (For someone who likes the finer things in life, the idea of living on a campsite in a cold, wet, dreary country might be unappealing). So I don't think Taliesin is trying to bring him back to anything worse. I imagine he thinks Zevran only doesn't come back because he would be killed.

Taliesin volunteers for the contract at great personal risk (he may have to confront a grey warden). It may be that he does so, because he knows that anybody else will kill Zevran and he wants to bring him back. It may be that nobody else volunteers (quite likely). Either way, he will put his life on the line to find Zevran, to bring him back or to avenge his death. Thinking about it, I believe he was likely in love with Zevran. He comes to the encounter to save him. And this is somebody who I presume had the same 'training' as Zevran, and who tries to be 'cold'.

Nobody needed to die, if Zevran had gone with Taliesin and the warden let him. It's his choice that leads to Taliesin's death. His reasons are sound, but Taliesin ends up the victim - I think it is a kind of betrayal, given what Taliesin risked to have him back.


Zevran actually talks about being a slave more than once, and he sounds pretty bitter.  He did take great pride in being a Crow and the life it gave him, but elves in general have a really horrible lot in life -- being a slave to the crows is better than anything else that he had been offered.  The moment he's offered the chance to do something else, anything else, he takes it.

Why he spit on Rinna?  It's interesting, I never really thought too much beyond what he said.  This has been something that has been tormenting him for whatever time and he's just getting it off his chest.  I think it was for betraying the crows.  He made a choice right there, and chose them.  Then learned they didn't care at ALL.  And had it happened to him, they wouldn't care either.

Now, with Taliesen, it also depends on whether you think that he and Zevran were equals, or if Taliesen was Zevran's superior.  I go back and forth on this -- I'm really not sure.  Some things Ignacio says really does make it sound like Taliesen was over Zevran, but some things Zevran says makes it sound like they were equals.  I get the feeling that Taliesen was at the very least Zevran's mentor, and Taliesen being a human and Zevran being an elf would make for an imbalance there no matter what.  It could just be that when Zevran failed, Taliesen volunteered to pick up the contract.  I'm not sure.

Taliesen had offered to help Zevran the first time around, so he probably didn't see it as a suicide bid, though I find it interesting that he did a face-to-face confrontation rather than an ambush. Silly plot devices!

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mars 2010 - 07:03 .


#10675
Charsen

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Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

can you add it to the DMZ or port forward or something? i bet if you posted in the PC tech support they would know what to do
would be awesome to see Xander's oh so sullenly sexy face on the thread =P


sadly we tried...we need to get rid of the bloody thing *glares*

as for Xander sullenly sexy face?


Image IPB


:wub:

yeah, probably time for a new one. of all computer and tech stuff, networking is what i loathe. if my router doesn't work, well. i have snapped one in half before out of sheer frustration/desperation, and let me tell you, that is quite satisfying. ......but it does require purchasing a new one. 
<_<