35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Charsen wrote...

can you add it to the DMZ or port forward or something? i bet if you posted in the PC tech support they would know what to do
would be awesome to see Xander's oh so sullenly sexy face on the thread =P

sadly we tried...we need to get rid of the bloody thing *glares*

as for Xander sullenly sexy face?

yeah, probably time for a new one. of all computer and tech stuff, networking is what i loathe. if my router doesn't work, well. i have snapped one in half before out of sheer frustration/desperation, and let me tell you, that is quite satisfying. ......but it does require purchasing a new one. 
<_<

which is easier said than done dew to the economy

[Addai]

double post

Modifié par Addai67, 21 mars 2010 - 07:02 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Zevran actually talks about being a slave more than once, and he sounds pretty bitter.  He did take great pride in being a Crow and the life it gave him, but elves in general have a really horrible lot in life -- being a slave to the crows is better than anything else that he had been offered.  The moment he's offered the chance to do something else, anything else, he takes it.

Yeah, try telling him he's just a servant and see how well that goes over. 

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Zevran actually talks about being a slave more than once, and he sounds pretty bitter.  He did take great pride in being a Crow and the life it gave him, but elves in general have a really horrible lot in life -- being a slave to the crows is better than anything else that he had been offered.  The moment he's offered the chance to do something else, anything else, he takes it.

Yeah, try telling him he's just a servant and see how well that goes over. 

Heh, yeh, that's HUGE disapproval.

[Cuddlezarro]

iv never had the heart to pick the "your a servant" comment what does he say? (and how big is the disapproval loss)

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

Zevran actually talks about being a slave more than once, and he sounds pretty bitter.  He did take great pride in being a Crow and the life it gave him, but elves in general have a really horrible lot in life -- being a slave to the crows is better than anything else that he had been offered.  The moment he's offered the chance to do something else, anything else, he takes it.

Why he spit on Rinna?  It's interesting, I never really thought too much beyond what he said.  This has been something that has been tormenting him for whatever time and he's just getting it off his chest.  I think it was for betraying the crows.  He made a choice right there, and chose them.  Then learned they didn't care at ALL.  And had it happened to him, they wouldn't care either.

Now, with Taliesen, it also depends on whether you think that he and Zevran were equals, or if Taliesen was Zevran's superior.  I go back and forth on this -- I'm really not sure.  Some things Ignacio says really does make it sound like Taliesen was over Zevran, but some things Zevran says makes it sound like they were equals.  I get the feeling that Taliesen was at the very least Zevran's mentor, and Taliesen being a human and Zevran being an elf would make for an imbalance there no matter what.  It could just be that when Zevran failed, Taliesen volunteered to pick up the contract.  I'm not sure.

Taliesen had offered to help Zevran the first time around, so he probably didn't see it as a suicide bid, though I find it interesting that he did a face-to-face confrontation rather than an ambush. Silly plot devices!

I've never seen Zevran and Taliesan as equals. I'm sure they were close, and that they would have treated each other as "equals" (in terms of how they talked to each other, etc.), but I can't see Taliesan as anything but Zevran's mentor or master. I feel like, as much as Taliesan may have cared for Zevran, part of it was also perhaps pride in having 'sculpted' and 'shaped' Zevran. He seems truly aghast at the life Zevran chose for himself with the Warden, and I think part of that may be because he assumed that he had made Zevran what he was and knew everything about him. Zevran telling Taliesan that he knows nothing about him sounds like his way of saying that Taliesan no longer holds the power over him that he used to.

[ejoslin]

It's huge. I've only done it once. I have the toolset open so here you go!



Warden: I will always need a servant, trust me.

Zevran: I see. Then I shall have to brush up on my shoe-shining skills, won't I? (amused -- but this hides the fact that he REALLY disliked that answer)

[ejoslin]

Nonvita wrote...

I've never seen Zevran and Taliesan as equals. I'm sure they were close, and that they would have treated each other as "equals" (in terms of how they talked to each other, etc.), but I can't see Taliesan as anything but Zevran's mentor or master. I feel like, as much as Taliesan may have cared for Zevran, part of it was also perhaps pride in having 'sculpted' and 'shaped' Zevran. He seems truly aghast at the life Zevran chose for himself with the Warden, and I think part of that may be because he assumed that he had made Zevran what he was and knew everything about him. Zevran telling Taliesan that he knows nothing about him sounds like his way of saying that Taliesan no longer holds the power over him that he used to.

Gah, ok, I buy this 100%.  That makes so much more sense than anything I've been able to come up with about their relationship.  Hah, between you and Sabriana, I am completely convinced.

Edit: to prove I really do know English.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mars 2010 - 07:12 .

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

It's huge. I've only done it once. I have the toolset open so here you go!

Warden: I will always need a servant, trust me.
Zevran: I see. Then I shall have to brush up on my shoe-shining skills, won't I? (amused -- but this hides the fact that he REALLY disliked that answer)

ejoslin with the toolset is a powerful force indeed!

And that option is terrible! How Zevran can still manage to joke to cover up his feelings is beyond me. Blah, I need Charsen's Zev spanking mod to cheer me up now.

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

It's huge. I've only done it once. I have the toolset open so here you go!

Warden: I will always need a servant, trust me.
Zevran: I see. Then I shall have to brush up on my shoe-shining skills, won't I? (amused -- but this hides the fact that he REALLY disliked that answer)

[Creature 1]

Sannox wrote...
Taliesin volunteers for the contract at great personal risk (he may have to confront a grey warden). It may be that he does so, because he knows that anybody else will kill Zevran and he wants to bring him back. It may be that nobody else volunteers (quite likely). Either way, he will put his life on the line to find Zevran, to bring him back or to avenge his death. Thinking about it, I believe he was likely in love with Zevran. He comes to the encounter to save him. And this is somebody who I presume had the same 'training' as Zevran, and who tries to be 'cold'.

Nobody needed to die, if Zevran had gone with Taliesin and the warden let him. It's his choice that leads to Taliesin's death. His reasons are sound, but Taliesin ends up the victim - I think it is a kind of betrayal, given what Taliesin risked to have him back.

I'm sure Taliesin saw it as a betrayal, and I'm sure he had essentially good motives in trying to bring Zevran back.  But they way he went about it, waylaying them with a small army, sealed his fate.  Once he did that he couldn't say, "Well alrighty then" and let Zevran go, either Zevran had to go back with him or Zevran had to die.  Maybe if he'd sneaked into town on his own and managed to get Zevran a note saying, "All is forgiven, come home" he would have had the option to give up and pretend he never found Zevran when he said he didn't want to come back.  But with that many witnesses if Taliesin didn't try to kill Zevran the Crows would have killed him.  Taliesin was apparently all Crow, throwing his lot in with Zevran was unthinkable, and IMO it didn't matter that he loved Zevran, once he betrayed the Crows Taliesin had to kill him. 

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...

Zevran actually talks about being a slave more than once, and he sounds pretty bitter.  He did take great pride in being a Crow and the life it gave him, but elves in general have a really horrible lot in life -- being a slave to the crows is better than anything else that he had been offered.  The moment he's offered the chance to do something else, anything else, he takes it.

Why he spit on Rinna?  It's interesting, I never really thought too much beyond what he said.  This has been something that has been tormenting him for whatever time and he's just getting it off his chest.  I think it was for betraying the crows.  He made a choice right there, and chose them.  Then learned they didn't care at ALL.  And had it happened to him, they wouldn't care either.

Now, with Taliesen, it also depends on whether you think that he and Zevran were equals, or if Taliesen was Zevran's superior.  I go back and forth on this -- I'm really not sure.  Some things Ignacio says really does make it sound like Taliesen was over Zevran, but some things Zevran says makes it sound like they were equals.  I get the feeling that Taliesen was at the very least Zevran's mentor, and Taliesen being a human and Zevran being an elf would make for an imbalance there no matter what.  It could just be that when Zevran failed, Taliesen volunteered to pick up the contract.  I'm not sure.

Taliesen had offered to help Zevran the first time around, so he probably didn't see it as a suicide bid, though I find it interesting that he did a face-to-face confrontation rather than an ambush. Silly plot devices!

From Taliesin's point of view though, Zevran may be just as much a slave with the warden as he was with the Crows.   Although we know that the warden isn't forcing it on him, he still doesn't have any more choice than he did with the Crows - stay or die.   Taliesin can't know that he might want to stay for other reasons. 

I suppoose it makes sense for Taliesin to be a superior or equal, either way.   He doesn't order him to come back, but I think he's speaking to him as a friend or lover at that point anyway.  
I think they must have had a lot in common.   Zevran has managed to move on after the warden spared his life, but Taliesin hasn't had the chance to.    I would love it if it was possible to persuade Taliesin to leave the Crows and join the party, but I don't think he'd be able to make that decision right at that point.  He has only just been hit by the news that he's risking his life for nothing (Zevran doesn'st want to come back).   It might just be possible to convince him though- you'd be offering your protection, and at least he'd have Zevran as a friend.   I think it would be so fitting to be able to save both Zevran and Taliesin.  

[jenovan]

Creature 1 wrote...

Taliesin was apparently all Crow, throwing his lot in with Zevran was unthinkable, and IMO it didn't matter that he loved Zevran, once he betrayed the Crows Taliesin had to kill him.

Yes! As Zevran says after the battle, Taliesen's fault is his priorities -- apparently it lies with the Crows over his personal feelings, which, Zevran may have learned (depending how one thinks he felt about Rinna), is something he cannot agree with.

[Nonvita]

Creature 1 wrote...

Sannox wrote...
Taliesin volunteers for the contract at great personal risk (he may have to confront a grey warden). It may be that he does so, because he knows that anybody else will kill Zevran and he wants to bring him back. It may be that nobody else volunteers (quite likely). Either way, he will put his life on the line to find Zevran, to bring him back or to avenge his death. Thinking about it, I believe he was likely in love with Zevran. He comes to the encounter to save him. And this is somebody who I presume had the same 'training' as Zevran, and who tries to be 'cold'.

Nobody needed to die, if Zevran had gone with Taliesin and the warden let him. It's his choice that leads to Taliesin's death. His reasons are sound, but Taliesin ends up the victim - I think it is a kind of betrayal, given what Taliesin risked to have him back.

I'm sure Taliesin saw it as a betrayal, and I'm sure he had essentially good motives in trying to bring Zevran back.  But they way he went about it, waylaying them with a small army, sealed his fate.  Once he did that he couldn't say, "Well alrighty then" and let Zevran go, either Zevran had to go back with him or Zevran had to die.  Maybe if he'd sneaked into town on his own and managed to get Zevran a note saying, "All is forgiven, come home" he would have had the option to give up and pretend he never found Zevran when he said he didn't want to come back.  But with that many witnesses if Taliesin didn't try to kill Zevran the Crows would have killed him.  Taliesin was apparently all Crow, throwing his lot in with Zevran was unthinkable, and IMO it didn't matter that he loved Zevran, once he betrayed the Crows Taliesin had to kill him. 

Agreed. And I'll add that I personally think Taliesan went after Zevran because he felt affronted by Zevran's betrayal. I think he took it as a personal insult. Assuming Taliesan was Zevran's master, which I believe, then I doubt his feelings for Zevran reached the 'love' status and instead were more based on pride.

So Taliesan goes into it thinking that either:
1. Zevran can choose to return, which will cement that Taliesan is the most important thing to him (being the only thing able to bring Zevran back to the Crows). In this case, it means that Taliesan still holds power over Zevran and that he can still control Zevran's fate.
or
2. Zevran will refuse to return, in which case he is defying everything Taliesan tried to make him into, in which case there's nothing to do but kill him. It's not just about Zevran giving up the Crows, it's about Zevran going against Taliesan's control over him, so there's no way Taliesan could let him go for that.

[Sannox]

Creature 1 wrote...
I'm sure Taliesin saw it as a betrayal, and I'm sure he had essentially good motives in trying to bring Zevran back.  But they way he went about it, waylaying them with a small army, sealed his fate.  Once he did that he couldn't say, "Well alrighty then" and let Zevran go, either Zevran had to go back with him or Zevran had to die.  Maybe if he'd sneaked into town on his own and managed to get Zevran a note saying, "All is forgiven, come home" he would have had the option to give up and pretend he never found Zevran when he said he didn't want to come back.  But with that many witnesses if Taliesin didn't try to kill Zevran the Crows would have killed him.  Taliesin was apparently all Crow, throwing his lot in with Zevran was unthinkable, and IMO it didn't matter that he loved Zevran, once he betrayed the Crows Taliesin had to kill him. 

Yes, I think it's clear that he's not free of the Crows, mentally.   But possibly Zevran wasn't either until Rinna and his near-death, and being spared.   Taliesin hasn't gone through that process. 

But I don't think he ever plans to kill Zevran for betraying the Crows.   He tries to kill him for not coming back with him, but Zevran is as up for the fight as he is.   The difference is that Zevran knows he's likely on the winning side (with the warden), whereas Taliesin fighting against the warden and compaions and Zevran is on a suicide mission.

I can see that a sudden ambush might not have worked, because Taliesin had to be able to talk to Zevran.   I don't know why a note wasn't used (apart from a confrontation being needed for the game ), but Taliesin may have thought that it would seem like a trap (they were discouraged from being loyal to each other, rather than the Crows).   He needed the army, because he may have had to fight a grey warden who didn't want to give up his/her 'property'.   He thought he was going to have Zevran on his side to do it.

ETA: Taliesin is happy to lie to the Crows to have Zevran back.  He also says that he doesn't blame him for the 'betrayal'.   I think that shows where his feelings lie - Zevran first, and Crows second.

ETA again: I think it probably didn't occur to Taliesin that Zevran might choose staying with the warden over coming back to Antiva.   As far as Taliesin knows, the only reason Zevran doesn't come back is because he would be dead if he wasn't with the warden.

Modifié par Sannox, 21 mars 2010 - 07:45 .

[Cuddlezarro]

ok question does any one want their favorite PC turned into a "approves/disapproves" banner because im rather bored and dew to the fact im running a virus scan i cant play Dragon age (having the virus scan slows my pc down alot when I play games)

edit: also am I the only person who finds it odd that this topic has survived so long but there isnt an Alistair equivilent? when hes far and away more popular

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 21 mars 2010 - 07:37 .

[ejoslin]

If you're offering, I'd LOVE to have my avatar made into one.



And truthfully, I'm not surprised. Alistair, for good or bad, is very easy to interpret. Zevran manages to elude us all!

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

If you're offering, I'd LOVE to have my avatar made into one.

And truthfully, I'm not surprised. Alistair, for good or bad, is very easy to interpret. Zevran manages to elude us all!

can I have a screenshot of your character ingame(with as happy as you can get her or some type of disapproving face) and if you can an ending screenie that has her name on it (I dont have anything close to the right font but if you cant give me a screenshot of that just tell me her name...unless you want me to just use Ejoslin)

[ejoslin]

Hmmm, human . . . that's a sex screenshot for sure (for the smile I mean). And ejoslin is fine! Ok, sexy screenshot coming up. I'll clip out the naughty bits!

Edit: Or NOT.  Hmmmm.  Maybe there's something usable there.

Second edit: This may take me a bit.  Though the orgasm look she has at the end would probably work for an approve one.  Tell me what you think!  It's pretty dark, but she looks like she approves of something . . . 

It's hard finding one where she actually has a facial expression other that :|  

Second edit: I actually like that expression for an "approve" banner, but if it's too dark, then yeh.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 mars 2010 - 07:57 .

[Creature 1]

I don't think that Taliesin was Zevran's superior for a few reasons.  First, because I don't think there's much in-game support.  A lot of the background Zevran gives has a "there, I fixed it" vibe, like (different?) authors just wrote stuff into the dialogue as they thought it up without ever writing a coherent backstory, and never bothered to retcon.  Second, the impression I get of Crow hierarchy is that it's strictly stratified.  Growing up in the Crows I think Zevran's experience would have been that his superiors were demanding and merciless.  I doubt he would be able to trust anyone who was his superior because if that person wasn't pleased with him for some reason the consequences would be more unpleasant than just some strong words.  And finally and most importantly, because I think that scenario's boring.    I think the relationship would have been more intimate if they were equals and shared similar experiences, and intimacy + conflict = drama. 

[Nonvita]

Here you go, CZ. I think my HN can out-frown yours any day.



And if you want to try Alistair:

Modifié par Nonvita, 21 mars 2010 - 07:56 .

[Charsen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ok question does any one want their favorite PC turned into a "approves/disapproves" banner because im rather bored and dew to the fact im running a virus scan i cant play Dragon age (having the virus scan slows my pc down alot when I play games)

edit: also am I the only person who finds it odd that this topic has survived so long but there isnt an Alistair equivilent? when hes far and away more popular

there was one, but i slapped it until it stopped whining.

[Minaleth]

Cuddlezarro wrote...
edit: also am I the only person who finds it odd that this topic has survived so long but there isnt an Alistair equivilent? when hes far and away more popular

It is little bit surprising because I am convinced that Zevran is the least popular LI. On the other hand his fans (once taken to the squee side) seem to be talkative, sociable and willing to analyze any bit of squee that is possible to find (or make up). I have good time here, better than RL friends chat sometimes <3

[Cuddlezarro]

Nonvita your PC isnt married to that fridged Cow Anora I dont think its possible to outfrown him or look scarier than him when hes pissed off either



heres a Picture of him as he murders Annoyra~

[Cuddlezarro]

Charsen wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ok question does any one want their favorite PC turned into a "approves/disapproves" banner because im rather bored and dew to the fact im running a virus scan i cant play Dragon age (having the virus scan slows my pc down alot when I play games)

edit: also am I the only person who finds it odd that this topic has survived so long but there isnt an Alistair equivilent? when hes far and away more popular

there was one, but i slapped it until it stopped whining.

ohho you slapped them into submission for whining huh?

:whines: