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[UnDutchable]

I figured I'd ask in this thread, since you people seem to be Zevran experts.
A lot of people joke about how sleazy Zevran is and how he's collecting all the STDs in Thedas, which is pretty funny imo, but... is there any evidence that Zevran is promiscuous outside of his job? Sure, he flirts with almost all your companions, but I never really got the impression that he'd actually have sex with all of them. I can't check right now, since my laptop broke down, but are there any instances in the game that reveal he really used to get around as much as he claims?
I can only remember two conversations that address this: the first one is the conversation with Alistair about the prostitute who looked like the king, and who was apparently too expensive for Zevran. The second is the conversation between the PC and Zevran, in which the PC asks him about his history with women. I actually thought his answer to that question was rather revealing. I was expecting an answer about the women he'd slept with... you know, because he wanted to. But the first thing he says is about all the people he had to sleep with to assassinate them, isn't it? How does the rest of that conversation go? Does he ever mention anything about sleeping with people because he wanted to?

[MOTpoetryION]

Not at all more likely older then you . just messing around it is a game you know, right ?

Modifié par MOTpoetryION, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:04 .

[ejoslin]

UnDutchable wrote...

I figured I'd ask in this thread, since you people seem to be Zevran experts.
A lot of people joke about how sleazy Zevran is and how he's collecting all the STDs in Thedas, which is pretty funny imo, but... is there any evidence that Zevran is promiscuous outside of his job? Sure, he flirts with almost all your companions, but I never really got the impression that he'd actually have sex with all of them. I can't check right now, since my laptop broke down, but are there any instances in the game that reveal he really used to get around as much as he claims?
I can only remember two conversations that address this: the first one is the conversation with Alistair about the prostitute who looked like the king, and who was apparently too expensive for Zevran. The second is the conversation between the PC and Zevran, in which the PC asks him about his history with women. I actually thought his answer to that question was rather revealing. I was expecting an answer about the women he'd slept with... you know, because he wanted to. But the first thing he says is about all the people he had to sleep with to assassinate them, isn't it? How does the rest of that conversation go? Does he ever mention anything about sleeping with people because he wanted to?

On a couple of occasions he mentions that he took great pride in being a good lover; however, even with Isabela, sleeping with her was just business -- as soon as he killed her husband, he was gone. And that conversation can go in several different directions, but basically he has slept with a lot of people and of all the things he regrets he's done, that's the least of it.

He will have sex with Leliana if the PC requests it (the infamous foursome), and you get disapproval if you sleep with Isabela without him, but major points if you have him join.  He also approves of the PC sleeping with Cammen.  Of course, once he hits adore, cheating is out of the question, but until then, I don't think that's an issue.  Then again, even Alistair doesn't mind you sleeping with Zevran unless Zevran hits adore.  

Promiscuous may be the wrong word, though; he lives life to its fullest and enjoys whatever pleasures he can, making the best of whatever situation he finds himself in.  To paraphrase him, of course.

Edit: Cheating meaning having someone else at 70+ approval with you.  Isabela and Cammen are still ok.

Second edit: Even if most of his partners were for business purposes, he certainly enjoyed that part of the job,.  I don't think you're given enough information, though, to make that conclusion either way.  Or, you're given just enough that you can really make of it what you like and how you want to see him!

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 02:20 .

[MOTpoetryION]

basically he just uses sex as a tool to get what he wants

Edit: now why does that sound familiar

Modifié par MOTpoetryION, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:27 .

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...
Hmmm, I would imagine the cliche for a male character would be the warrior.

I'm not a reader of fanfic, but I did follow the links here and looked at a few.  The women all seem to be these tiny little mages, helpless but full of awesomeness anyway. There must be some out there with human women who carry big swords or battle axes, wear plate, and kick serious butt.  I just didn't spend much time looking.

I don't read a lot of fanfic, but from what I have seen, the romantic trend for female human warriors and rogues tends to be Alistair with some Zev on the side. :/

Given that my next PC is supposed to be a warrior fem!Cousland, I feel a challenge coming  on... XD

[ejoslin]

Ok, using Dialog Tweaks changes the dialog both before and after the tent scene if you wait until after he hits love. It's not worth waiting if you can't mod as it plays exactly the same, and in fact is a bit jarring, but it's actually sweet with DT, though I'm not sure entirely in character.

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Hmmm, I would imagine the cliche for a male character would be the warrior.

I'm not a reader of fanfic, but I did follow the links here and looked at a few.  The women all seem to be these tiny little mages, helpless but full of awesomeness anyway. There must be some out there with human women who carry big swords or battle axes, wear plate, and kick serious butt.  I just didn't spend much time looking.

I don't read a lot of fanfic, but from what I have seen, the romantic trend for female human warriors and rogues tends to be Alistair with some Zev on the side. :/

Given that my next PC is supposed to be a warrior fem!Cousland, I feel a challenge coming  on... XD

Elissa is a warrior this time around as well.  I've been trying to duplicate a variant on the royal scandal talk that I've seen once on my earlier play throughs -- this is my last try, and then I'll concede maybe I was imagining things.  This time Elissa is marrying an unhardened Alistair and not going to the tent with Zevran until after the engagement is announced (well, only through judicious use of F9 that is).

I do get the Alistair squee.  I don't share it, but I do get it.  And the mage thing . . . Back when I played MMOs, I saw very few women who played melee characters, most were healers or wizards, with a few necromancers or mages thrown in.  I wonder why that is?

[MOTpoetryION]

on one playthrough i just gave gifts to everyone was nice to everyone didnt sleep with anyone then liliana kink of C*** blocked me at the pearl i was like what the hell

i hadnt kissed anyone one all sudden morrigan starts talking how she dont like sharing i was like omg?

[ejoslin]

MOTpoetryION wrote...

on one playthrough i just gave gifts to everyone was nice to everyone didnt sleep with anyone then liliana kink of C*** blocked me at the pearl i was like what the hell
i hadnt kissed anyone one all sudden morrigan starts talking how she dont like sharing i was like omg?

It's because you gave her the mirror.  That switches the romance on with her.  HTH.

Edit: And you didn't harden Leliana.  After her personal quest you need to tell her she's a bard, a spy, and to quit running scared from who she is.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 01:57 .

[Jayelet]

Most of my characters are rogues or warriors, magicians prefer, and most have ended Zevran. Because I find it increasingly harder Alistair, his romanticism of speech leaves me cold.

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...
I do get the Alistair squee.  I don't share it, but I do get it.  And the mage thing . . . Back when I played MMOs, I saw very few women who played melee characters, most were healers or wizards, with a few necromancers or mages thrown in.  I wonder why that is?

I have noooo idea, I love playing melee. XD  (And I hate being a group healer!  Maybe that's an MMO stigma for me -- healing is so much pressure. T_T;; )  I actually specced my current PC as an archer and it's driving me nuts that he can't wade in and fight very effectively. ~:| 

[Rhinna]

I started a thread in the community forum social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/97/index/691000 here, because I am curious as to the many different PC personas that have romanced Zevran.

I put my contribution there - got a bit wordier than I had originally planned, but you'll get a good idea of my PC's personality.

I read some of the fanfic as well, and that is what got me curious about the many PC personas that loved Zev  There seems to be a wide range - we all know what Zev is like, let's see what our PCs are like!

[ejoslin]

Yay, found the alternative to the royal scandal speech. If the romance is not complete between the PC and Zevran, you get this one. I must have seen it when romancing both of them so not talking to either (therefore not completing the Zevran romance). I feel guilty about making an unhardened Alistair king. He really REALLY does not want this, nor the marriage. Hehehehe.

Edit: The royal scandal dialog is FAR better.  This one, Zevran is still assuming when the world is saved, he and the PC will part ways, where in the royal scandal one, he is hoping they'll stay together.  Either way, he's happy when you say you don't want to end it.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 03:39 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, using Dialog Tweaks changes the dialog both before and after the tent scene if you wait until after he hits love. It's not worth waiting if you can't mod as it plays exactly the same, and in fact is a bit jarring, but it's actually sweet with DT, though I'm not sure entirely in character.

I'm a little slow and a n00b when it comes to gaming, you're saying that if you wait to sleep with Zevran until after it switches to love, the dialogue is the same in the vanilla game?  Just making sure I understood correctly.  Because my elf mage might be able to abstain til then, but I'm not putting her through those cold nights unless there's some payback.    How does it change with the mod, I'm curious?

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Ok, using Dialog Tweaks changes the dialog both before and after the tent scene if you wait until after he hits love. It's not worth waiting if you can't mod as it plays exactly the same, and in fact is a bit jarring, but it's actually sweet with DT, though I'm not sure entirely in character.

I'm a little slow and a n00b when it comes to gaming, you're saying that if you wait to sleep with Zevran until after it switches to love, the dialogue is the same in the vanilla game?  Just making sure I understood correctly.  Because my elf mage might be able to abstain til then, but I'm not putting her through those cold nights unless there's some payback.    How does it change with the mod, I'm curious?

If you use the mod dialog tweaks, it changes dramatically, otherwise it's exactly the same, including the end where he asks "what now."  Even if you're already practically engaged.

With dialog tweaks, the long conversations both are gone.  Of course, neither the new before or after dialogs (before has two lines from Zevran, after has one) are perfect with timing.  Like I said, I really don't get the feeling those dialogs are in character, but  the original ones are also odd if you wait until after you're committed to him.  I don't know -- Zevran just doesn't strike me as the type who values "waiting."  But that's just my interpretation of him, I suppose.

Edit: Well, in the vanilla game (and in DT version) you do get different dialog choices when he's refusing to go into your tent, obviously.  You can tell him, i'm sorry, that was clumsy, or I thought that was something you were interested in, and his response is appropriate as well, but still.

And I wasn't meaning to make it sound like dialog tweaks made it all hearts and flowers -- the version there is definitely nicer than the original, and more appropriate given that he is in love (no sarcasm at all, no questioning the PC).  Just . . . I still get the feeling he would have preferred the sex all along!

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 04:30 .

[Jayelet]

Rhinna wrote...

I started a thread in the community forum social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/97/index/691000 here, because I am curious as to the many different PC personas that have romanced Zevran.

I put my contribution there - got a bit wordier than I had originally planned, but you'll get a good idea of my PC's personality.

I read some of the fanfic as well, and that is what got me curious about the many PC personas that loved Zev  There seems to be a wide range - we all know what Zev is like, let's see what our PCs are like!

Very handsome Rhinna the story, thanks

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...
With dialog tweaks, the long conversations both are gone.  Of course, neither the new before or after dialogs (before has two lines from Zevran, after has one) are perfect with timing.  Like I said, I really don't get the feeling those dialogs are in character, but  the original ones are also odd if you wait until after you're committed to him.  I don't know -- Zevran just doesn't strike me as the type who values "waiting."  But that's just my interpretation of him, I suppose.

Edit: Well, in the vanilla game (and in DT version) you do get different dialog choices when he's refusing to go into your tent, obviously.  You can tell him, i'm sorry, that was clumsy, or I thought that was something you were interested in, and his response is appropriate as well, but still.

And I wasn't meaning to make it sound like dialog tweaks made it all hearts and flowers -- the version there is definitely nicer than the original, and more appropriate given that he is in love (no sarcasm at all, no questioning the PC).  Just . . . I still get the feeling he would have preferred the sex all along!

I could see him being curious about it or even appreciative, if no other woman has ever treated him that way.  Someone who grew up as basically a prostitute with added skills, having to form a relationship on an entirely platonic basis.

About his refusal- you mean that you get different dialogue choices than in the vanilla game?  Because I don't remember any options to say that it was clumsy etc.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
With dialog tweaks, the long conversations both are gone.  Of course, neither the new before or after dialogs (before has two lines from Zevran, after has one) are perfect with timing.  Like I said, I really don't get the feeling those dialogs are in character, but  the original ones are also odd if you wait until after you're committed to him.  I don't know -- Zevran just doesn't strike me as the type who values "waiting."  But that's just my interpretation of him, I suppose.

Edit: Well, in the vanilla game (and in DT version) you do get different dialog choices when he's refusing to go into your tent, obviously.  You can tell him, i'm sorry, that was clumsy, or I thought that was something you were interested in, and his response is appropriate as well, but still.

And I wasn't meaning to make it sound like dialog tweaks made it all hearts and flowers -- the version there is definitely nicer than the original, and more appropriate given that he is in love (no sarcasm at all, no questioning the PC).  Just . . . I still get the feeling he would have preferred the sex all along!

I could see him being curious about it or even appreciative, if no other woman has ever treated him that way.  Someone who grew up as basically a prostitute with added skills, having to form a relationship on an entirely platonic basis.

About his refusal- you mean that you get different dialogue choices than in the vanilla game?  Because I don't remember any options to say that it was clumsy etc.

If you haven't been to his tent by the time he's refusing, you get the different dialog choices.  That is in the vanilla game.

And it's funny how people just see the characters so differently.  I think it's great!

Edit: And I can't resist another Alistair comparison here.  Both Alistair and Zevran refuse to have sex with you at some point -- Alistair because you're not special enough to him, Zevran because you're too special.  Both are scared but for very different reasons.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:16 .

[Sabriana]

Hey now! I have DT, and my HN has Zevran at 100 but hasn't gone to the tent with him yet. After reading that DT changes the talk 'after' I decided to put my HN through the ringer and have her wait (Roleplayed it that she's still very spooked seeing Dairren shot right in front of her, and not ready for another deep, and consummated relationship. Yeah, I know. Go figure.) She feels deeply for Zevran, but has no intention of hopping into bed too quickly, because she's not the 'easy come, easy go' type.

I demand to know how the 'after' dialogue changes with DT! Pretty please...., pretty, pretty please???/whine

If it's too revealing, a pm is always doable, right

If it's not worth it, I'll have Alena relent and go 'tenting' with Zevran. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for her, you know.

I do sort of agree with Addai. A woman who shows him that she cares a lot for him, even kisses him, tells him she's very happy to have him about, and wants to have him about in the future, but refuses to have sex might be a novelty to him. An intriguing novelty, even. You know, somehow teaching him that sex is only a part of a relationship, and not the only thing.

I like my HN rogue, even though I think it's a misnomer. She's an ace with the bow, and a ranger to boot. I'm now adding on the DW specs and she's awesome. She has very few rogue special talents, only the ones she was forced to have by the game, iirc. But I do agree with those who pair Zev off with mages. Give him a human rogue or a warrior for a change, have mercy on him, for crying out loud.

Heck even my mage (the poor, silly one who fell for Alistair, and was rescued by Zevran in the end) isn't a puny mage. She is an AW, and could deal out major damage with staff as well as with sword and dagger. Man, she's awesome too.

***Challenges Jenovan******

[Addai]

I was about to ask who Dairren was, but that's the guy who flirts with you in the HN origin, right? Your mom's visitor's son? I turned that guy down so I guess I missed some stuff. My Lady Cousland was cold... she did not lick lamp posts lightly. LOL I'll have to re-do that origin eventually.

My previous character was a rogue who romanced Zevran.  I thought they were cute together.  I didn't plan it this way, but they even looked similar, like cousins.

Modifié par Addai67, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:33 .

[Sabriana]

Dairren is a short but sweet romance. Of course, my HN didn't 'just' hop into bed with him, it was a long-standing relationship, but neither were ready to marry just yet (my RP, not game lore). Perhaps because both mothers pushed so hard, lol.



When Alena goes into the study and talks to Dairren about the book "the art of love", his facial expressions are hilarious.



Btw, the way I'm playing it, is that my HN initially felt drawn to Zevran because he made her laugh. She so desperately needed that, and he seemed to know it. The only companion who actually seemed to know that she felt bad, and needed cheering up. And then she started falling for him - big time.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Hey now! I have DT, and my HN has Zevran at 100 but hasn't gone to the tent with him yet. After reading that DT changes the talk 'after' I decided to put my HN through the ringer and have her wait (Roleplayed it that she's still very spooked seeing Dairren shot right in front of her, and not ready for another deep, and consummated relationship. Yeah, I know. Go figure.) She feels deeply for Zevran, but has no intention of hopping into bed too quickly, because she's not the 'easy come, easy go' type.

I demand to know how the 'after' dialogue changes with DT! Pretty please...., pretty, pretty please???/whine

If it's too revealing, a pm is always doable, right

If it's not worth it, I'll have Alena relent and go 'tenting' with Zevran. I'm starting to feel a bit sorry for her, you know.

I do sort of agree with Addai. A woman who shows him that she cares a lot for him, even kisses him, tells him she's very happy to have him about, and wants to have him about in the future, but refuses to have sex might be a novelty to him. An intriguing novelty, even. You know, somehow teaching him that sex is only a part of a relationship, and not the only thing.

I like my HN rogue, even though I think it's a misnomer. She's an ace with the bow, and a ranger to boot. I'm now adding on the DW specs and she's awesome. She has very few rogue special talents, only the ones she was forced to have by the game, iirc. But I do agree with those who pair Zev off with mages. Give him a human rogue or a warrior for a change, have mercy on him, for crying out loud.

Heck even my mage (the poor, silly one who fell for Alistair, and was rescued by Zevran in the end) isn't a puny mage. She is an AW, and could deal out major damage with staff as well as with sword and dagger. Man, she's awesome too.

***Challenges Jenovan******

Hmmm, Zevran to me doesn't seem to put sex and love together until he falls in love.  Refuse or not refuse, once he does fall in love they become connected.  Until then, he's really enjoying it anyway.  

Is putting DT stuff a spoiler?  I don't think so.  Ok, this is how DT changes the final sex scene.

PC: Want to join me in my tent?
Zevran: And who could resist such a request.
Zevran: And I thought it was a gray warden thing

Zevran: Gray warden, I'm with you until the end.

Really, the main problem with the DT dialog is a matter of timing, but it fits far better than the original version.

LOL, my HN always tells Fergus she has three lovers at the moment.  I think Dairren is number four maybe?  His reaction is great!

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 05:46 .

[Sabriana]

Thanks, Ejoslin. Short but sweet. I knew they couldn't possibly do the "whatever comes after is entirely up to you, etc." lines in if he's in love. Dang, I so wish I could DL the toolset, and peek at the dialogues.



Re. Sex and love, that could be seen that way as well. The way you describe it, I mean. But I do wonder what a man like Zevran, to whom sex is a past-time, a tool, and a casual enjoyment, would feel if it is denied. Even though the PC shows him, and tells him that she cares for him greatly.



How confusing for poor Zevran

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Thanks, Ejoslin. Short but sweet. I knew they couldn't possibly do the "whatever comes after is entirely up to you, etc." lines in if he's in love. Dang, I so wish I could DL the toolset, and peek at the dialogues.

Re. Sex and love, that could be seen that way as well. The way you describe it, I mean. But I do wonder what a man like Zevran, to whom sex is a past-time, a tool, and a casual enjoyment, would feel if it is denied. Even though the PC shows him, and tells him that she cares for him greatly.

How confusing for poor Zevran

That ending is ONLY with dialog tweaks.  In the vanilla game, the tent scene dialogs are exactly the same no matter when they happen.

And yes, he gets VERY confused.  And I don't think sex for him is about feelings at all, until he falls in love.  So I don't think it would hurt him if he's denied, it just doesn't become more to him until he's in love.  The PC is special to him no matter what.  He won't share her once his feelings grow deep enough, but I don't think that's about sex as it is about feelings.  Doesn't he say something like, "If there is going to be something between you and I, it will be honest."  It just seems to be about feelings, not about the physical act.  And he will force you to make a choice whether you two are going to the tent or not. 

Also, once the affection level hits adore, everyone ACTS like you're having sex anyway.  *grin*  This play through was a bit depressing; no romance at all until the end!  *sigh* Now back to my mage who is romancing Alistair.  Do I put her through a public humilation?  Or does she succumb to a certain elf's charms . . .

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:11 .

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

<snip>

And he will force you to make a choice whether you two are going to the tent or not. 

<snip<

Oh? Really? I was wondering about that, because it hasn't happened yet. Alistair is at 60ish and interested, I have no clue where Leliana stands, but I would bet my best boots that she's at 'interested' too. I can't seem to keep her at friendly, maybe it's time for me to write all responses down and try and figure out which ones are the culprit.

I have a question though. You wrote that a still 'in-love' Alistair will kiss the PC before he sacrifices himself. And you have a marvelous picture to prove it. How on earth do you keep Alistair at 'in-love' and still have Zevran as your one and only? Is there a way to turn Alistair's romance back on, even though Zevran calls my girl on the carpet and basically tells her "it's either him or me."?