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[Sannox]

Minaleth wrote...
What he's doing in Antiva during Awakening could have 100 possible explanations that are plausible with Origins background given.

Yes, but what IS he doing?  I mean that my warden would want to know.  What power does he have there without grey warden protection?  And sorry, I deleted my post as I thought it was  bit too spoilery.

[Minaleth]

What would help to feel some relationship/friendship towards Jowan this early in game might be some short flashback compilation showing you two doing whatever friends do together. I would fit good right before your waking from Fade.

[ejoslin]

 Hmmmm, since I didn't see the spoiler, this MAY not be what it was about.  But it was something that bugged the hell out of me, and some of the responses made me think that I play a different version of DAO than a lot of other people!

[ejoslin]

Did you see the letter from Zevran that is in the text table but never made it into the game? I don't want to post it in the forum, but I do have a copy of the text if you want to see it.  It does explain what he's doing there, but I don't think it's consistent with Origins.  Then again, not much IS, and I suppose I understand why.

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 mars 2010 - 11:47 .

[Minaleth]

Sannox wrote...

Minaleth wrote...
What he's doing during Awakening could have 100 possible explanations that are plausible with Origins background given.

Yes, but what IS he doing?  I mean that my warden would want to know.  What power does he have there without grey warden protection?  And sorry, I deleted my post as I thought it was  bit too spoilery.

I would love to know that too, but I suspect also the authors don't know (yet) They left opened end and threw in bunch of rumors plus lost letter (*note to Warden - fix Ferelden mail service right after dealing with darkspawn*) for a reason imo
From roleplay point of view your Warden really doesn't know either and will not know until they meet again. Therefor I think this is the best 'ending' under given circumstances.

[Rhinna]

Nonvita wrote...

Nooooooo how could you all have a discussion on Taliesin's voice while I was stuck on a plane?! It's one of those things I love to rant about. The problem isn't the perkiness, or the casualness, it's the nasaliness. The dude sounds like he needs some Nyquil and fast. And *why* the Ferelden accent? Oriana I can pretend to justify by saying that she's a noblewoman who would have learned the Ferelden language when young and that's why she has no accent. But Taliesin?...

And the only reason I think he went after the GW is because he saw Zevran's betrayal not as being against the Crows but as against himself. I think Taliesin saw himself as having control over Zevran that was lost when the GW saved him, so he thinks he can get that back either by getting Zevran to return with him (in which case Zevran would obviously only be returning for Taliesan's sake- which shows Taliesin still holds the power), or by killing Zevran outright. He comes to avenge Zevran's death only in the case that Zevran never actually 'betrayed' the Crows because he was killed, but otherwise Taliesin takes it extremely personally and refuses to believe that Zevran could break free from him so easily. I definitely think Taliesin sees himself as a puppet master with Zevran as his puppet.

That's my story and I'm sticking to it!

@Nonvita - Agree completely on your Taliesin take - I feel the same way.

As far as Fergus' wife - I hear a definite Orlesian accent (french) when she speaks.  It's not strong, but it's there, especially in the tone and meter.

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...

Did you see the letter from Zevran that is in the text table but never made it into the game? I don't want to post it in the forum, but I do have a copy of the text if you want to see it.  It does explain what he's doing there, but I don't think it's consistent with Origins.  Then again, not much IS, and I suppose I understand why.

Imo it does not explain anything in detail and it's vague enough to be consistent with Origins, but maybe we read it differently

BTW both letters are here if anyone wish to read.

Modifié par Minaleth, 22 mars 2010 - 11:57 .

[Sannox]

That would be good (ETA: in response to Minaleth's idea about showing a flashback to the friendship with Jowan). What would work well for me would be him doing the warden a favour. If I owed him one, I'd feel differently.

He comes across as whiny too, which I know is an unfair judgment as he has plenty to be whiny about.

The Circle has a strange atmosphere. It's a bit like a posh boarding school or a Hogwarts, with kindly enough teachers, and a bit of political infighting. And yet, there is all that horror beneath the surface - making people tranquil, killing them after the harrowing.

Cullen added an extra something when I played a female mage - now that was something I really wanted to explore. It's a shame we couldn't have a Cullen story instead of a Jowan story.

Modifié par Sannox, 22 mars 2010 - 12:01 .

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...

 Hmmmm, since I didn't see the spoiler, this MAY not be what it was about.  But it was something that bugged the hell out of me, and some of the responses made me think that I play a different version of DAO than a lot of other people!

You refer correctly, and I think this event is huge mistake on writers account, bleh.

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...

 Hmmmm, since I didn't see the spoiler, this MAY not be what it was about.  But it was something that bugged the hell out of me, and some of the responses made me think that I play a different version of DAO than a lot of other people!

Yes, that was it!  It made no sense.  I even had a go at imagining that Zevran was lying in DA:O, but that didn't work when I reasoned it out.  I think some of those people must have missed some of the game, and they also seem to miss your main point. 

I was also thinking that in addition to that, if Zevran was in Antiva he would likely have some inside knowledge (depending on what he was doing there)..

[Minaleth]

Sannox wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

 Hmmmm, since I didn't see the spoiler, this MAY not be what it was about.  But it was something that bugged the hell out of me, and some of the responses made me think that I play a different version of DAO than a lot of other people!

Yes, that was it!  It made no sense.  I even had a go at imagining that Zevran was lying in DA:O, but that didn't work when I reasoned it out.  I think some of those people must have missed some of the game, and they also seem to miss your main point. 

I was also thinking that in addition to that, if Zevran was in Antiva he would likely have some inside knowledge (depending on what he was doing there)..

Actually, there is slight possibility that those two things are related. Imagine you are crow masters and you manage to pull apart the warden and you former run away employee. You could assume that they would be less deadly apart than together. And it would be nice to fulfill the old contract (++reputation) even more if you get paid for the same person once again (the noblewoman). It's still in your best interest to kill off Zevran for many reasons (or just to demonstrate that you DO NOT leave the crown), and look he doesn't have the Warden now to secure hiss cute ass, oh he came to Antiva, how lovely. Wouldn't you try to push your luck even if that might be impolitical? 
Enough speculations, I stick with my first explanation - the awakening attempt is mistake, and we don't know what Zev is really up to. *shrugs*

Modifié par Minaleth, 22 mars 2010 - 12:15 .

[ejoslin]

The letter ties in with the epilogue if you do the ultimate sacrifice; it makes sense if you take that into account. I suppose originally it was assumed that the Grey Warden did the US and you started with an Orlesean.

Edit: No, but then there wouldn't be a letter!  *sigh* 

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 mars 2010 - 12:16 .

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...

The letter ties in with the epilogue if you do the ultimate sacrifice; it makes sense if you take that into account. I suppose originally it was assumed that the Grey Warden did the US and you started with an Orlesean.

Not necessarily.
He may want to stay with Warden forever, or never want to leave or promise not to leave, but still fate is tricky ****, isn't she? Anything could happen and me thinks that are reasons that could persuade him to make a short trip to Antiva, sort something out and everything should be better afterwards. Warden can follow only after they are done with their own business. Fine by me.

Modifié par Minaleth, 22 mars 2010 - 12:21 .

[Ramante]

I don't understand why there is no letter, I mean... it is not that much work to make it possible to read the letter everytime you talk to that 'private' outside the Keep. Well I think it is just a small thing. o.o'

Which one of you people has read the Calling, I have a question about Awakening and I think the answer may be found in the book? So I need someone to pm.

Edit: because a sentence should stop with a . and not with a ,

Modifié par Ramante, 22 mars 2010 - 12:21 .

[ejoslin]

The letter combined with the Awakenings epilogue really does make it sound like the ultimate sacrifice ending happened. Which also could have happened if you chose to do anything but rebuild the grey wardens with Zevran, actually, but there's the most detail if you did the US.



I'm almost dreading the next expansion.

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...

The letter combined with the Awakenings epilogue really does make it sound like the ultimate sacrifice ending happened. Which also could have happened if you chose to do anything but rebuild the grey wardens with Zevran, actually, but there's the most detail if you did the US.

I'm almost dreading the next expansion.

I think you see this too tragically. The US is nonsense, why would anyone write to dead Warden, not to mention that the Warden is very much alive doing stuff in Vigil's Keep.

As I said before - the Origins epilogue said that they went to rebuild wardens together. But what happened then, or on the road, or before? Who says that Zevran didn't get any mysterious letter form Antiva? Origins epilogues are opened (except the US ones). Literally anything could happen and we got zero information about it in Awakening - the letter is not in game, so we don't know if it's canon or not. The epilogue is bunch of rumors that might or might not be true. But still if both letter and epilogue are canon and true, then in my book it's still very much plausible and possible to happen with "rebuild gray wardens together" epilogue from Origins. Or any other epilogue except the US one.

[ejoslin]

Minaleth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

The letter combined with the Awakenings epilogue really does make it sound like the ultimate sacrifice ending happened. Which also could have happened if you chose to do anything but rebuild the grey wardens with Zevran, actually, but there's the most detail if you did the US.

I'm almost dreading the next expansion.

I think you see this too tragically. The US is nonsense, why would anyone write to dead Warden, not to mention that the Warden is very much alive doing stuff in Vigil's Keep.

As I said before - the Origins epilogue said that they went to rebuild wardens together. But what happened then, or on the road, or before? Who says that Zevran didn't get any mysterious letter form Antiva? Origins epilogues are opened (except the US ones). Literally anything could happen and we got zero information about it in Awakening - the letter is not in game, so we don't know if it's canon or not. The epilogue is bunch of rumors that might or might not be true. But still if both letter and epilogue are canon and true, then in my book it's still very much plausible and possible to happen with "rebuild gray wardens together" epilogue from Origins. Or any other epilogue except the US one.

No, I guess I wasn't clear.  What I mean by the US ending is what happened to Zevran in it!  How he kills his way to the top and takes over the Crows.  Not that the warden is DEAD.  As opposed to the ending where he's rebuilding the grey wardens with the warden.

Edit: I really do understand that if the warden is dead, she's not appearing in Virgil's keep and not getting letters from anyone 

Modifié par ejoslin, 22 mars 2010 - 12:32 .

[Sannox]

I can't imagine my characters doing the US. Maybe it's easier to do if you're in a love match with Alistair rather than Zevran. If it's you or the person you love (rather than leaving the person you love bereaved), then maybe you would make that choice.

[Minaleth]

OK, I think I was more referring to this

I suppose originally it was assumed that the Grey Warden did the US and you started with an Orlesean. Edit: No, but then there wouldn't be a letter! *sigh*

which is imo ridiculous idea as you said in edit later. No offense, I love you



I know how everyone dislikes the US Zevran epilogue because it seem to be a really tragic twist of fate. But the card itself says that we don't know if taking over the crows was bad or good thing.

I can easily see that authors may have liked this possibility and decided to use it regardless of what was Zevran doing right after any other Origins epilogue. That's because I like this idea myself

It really doesn't contradict anything. There is minor discontinuity because we don't see Zev and Warden rebuilding anything together, but I can forgive this if it's for the greater good (playable Zevran adventure in future). Just look at it in positive way - Antiva (with crows or without) offers so many adventures :3



oO I sound like was hired by bioware, but I just happen to like their decisions.

[jenovan]

*possible spoilers, tried to keep it vague*

Hmm, didn't want to stir up the other thread ejoslin linked -- it's been quiet for 3 days -- but maybe I should. I'll stick this here for now, though. XD Perhaps the reason for the letter and the Awakenings epilogue are directly related to that "inconsistency"? Maybe Zevran got word of what was going down in the arling and went to investigate/bash some skulls/whatnot, since it was 1) the breaking of a promise, and 2) really stupid? XD I don't know... my brain tries to force it to make sense. T_T


re: the mage origin, I agree that the horror of being in the Tower isn't really well-conveyed at first... especially if you help Jowan. If you turn him in... good lord, that turned me against Irving forever. oO;; But yeah... you find out much worse things about the Tower later in the game. Kinda makes sense, in that most of the apprentices would be sheltered from that kind of thing, but ES is right -- the Templars don't seem particularly threatening, and the Harrowing was a laugh. (Well, the latter is supposedly because you're just that awesome, but still. XD)

I didn't care much for Jowan at first, either -- I was like, why should my mage risk everything to help you? I had to think more about my PC's past (read: make one up) to find a good relationship for him and Jowan. That made meeting Jowan later quite a bit more poignant (thank goodness). *lonely Jowan fan* XD

Modifié par jenovan, 22 mars 2010 - 12:54 .

[ejoslin]

Go ahead, stir it up! It will get people screaming again, but that's always fun.



And no offense taken Minaleth *grin*



Really, I'm dreading the next expansion because of the way Zevran is portrayed in the DLCs, but... his epilogue I believe is the only one where it doesn't say, "the warden disappeared," so that may be the direction it's going in. And because in the DLCs, and because of at least one stray comment in Awakenings, I'm not sure if it goes that way that it will be positive at ALL.



Ah well, we'll see. It probably won't happen for another year, and by that time my Zevran obsession should have faded quite a bit!

[Minaleth]

jenovan wrote...
Perhaps the reason for the letter and the Awakenings epilogue are directly related to that "inconsistency"? Maybe Zevran got word of what was going down in the arling and went to investigate/bash some skulls/whatnot, since it was 1) the breaking of a promise, and 2) really stupid? XD I don't know... my brain tries to force it to make sense. T_T

Not bad trail of thought. I had similar ideas. The three events (letter, epilogue and said inconsistency) could be linked together with good story imo, but I am not paid to make it up ;p Fanfic anyone?

[ejoslin]

It will be interesting to see how everything ends up tying together.



Sannox, I did the US ending once. It was horrible. I felt rotten; I actually cried, felt guilty, and was a terrible mood for HOURS. It's kinder to kill Zevran when you meet him or let him go after Taliesen than it is to take the final blow if he's in love. Just ugh!

[Jayelet]

I hate the expansion ...
They have even gotten hate Oghren
Took three days just playing and I feel lonely.
Exchange all colleagues of expansion by Zevran.
(Sorry, I was not going to the topic, but I had to say )

[jenovan]

Jayelet wrote...

I hate the expansion ...
They have even gotten hate Oghren
Took three days just playing and I feel lonely.
Exchange all colleagues of expansion by Zevran.
(Sorry, I was not going to the topic, but I had to say )

Aww.. yes, I've seen several folks say the expansion is "lonely", and several hours in, I have to agree... I feel like my companions are afraid to talk to me or something, and it's just every so often they work up the nerve to say something. :/

I like the new characters so far, but yeah... ^^; I feel a bit distant from them.  Maybe that's what being the Commander is like.