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[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...
Also, once the affection level hits adore, everyone ACTS like you're having sex anyway. 

This cracked me up when I saw it in-game... Wynne gave me the old, "half of us can't sleep at night" comment, and I really, really wish there had been a choice of response for "But we aren't doing anything!" 

Ah well, Zevran corrected that the next time they went back to camp, anyway.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

ejoslin wrote...



And he will force you to make a choice whether you two are going to the tent or not. 

<snip<

Oh? Really? I was wondering about that, because it hasn't happened yet. Alistair is at 60ish and interested, I have no clue where Leliana stands, but I would bet my best boots that she's at 'interested' too. I can't seem to keep her at friendly, maybe it's time for me to write all responses down and try and figure out which ones are the culprit.

I have a question though. You wrote that a still 'in-love' Alistair will kiss the PC before he sacrifices himself. And you have a marvelous picture to prove it. How on earth do you keep Alistair at 'in-love' and still have Zevran as your one and only? Is there a way to turn Alistair's romance back on, even though Zevran calls my girl on the carpet and basically tells her "it's either him or me."?

They all have to be above 70 for there to be a forced confrontation.

Alistair in that screen shot is "still in love," not "in love."  If you ever get him to 100 love, he will stay in love, even if you two break up, as long as you are at 100 friendly.  It's why when he dumps the PC at the landsmeet he will sacrifice himself for her -- but it also works when you dump him.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:26 .

[Sabriana]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Also, once the affection level hits adore, everyone ACTS like you're having sex anyway. 

This cracked me up when I saw it in-game... Wynne gave me the old, "half of us can't sleep at night" comment, and I really, really wish there had been a choice of response for "But we aren't doing anything!" 

Ah well, Zevran corrected that the next time they went back to camp, anyway.

Rofl, that cracked me up!

*Sabriana thanks Jenovan. Hot tea really does clear the nasal passages in an admirable way*

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Also, once the affection level hits adore, everyone ACTS like you're having sex anyway. 

This cracked me up when I saw it in-game... Wynne gave me the old, "half of us can't sleep at night" comment, and I really, really wish there had been a choice of response for "But we aren't doing anything!" 

Ah well, Zevran corrected that the next time they went back to camp, anyway.

Yeh, that was kind of my thought.  We both wanted it, everyone thought we were doing it, so why not just give in to it!  Except this play through.  ROFL!  Poor Zev had lots of cold nights in his tent alone this play through.  It really was depressing!

[Addai]

jenovan wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Also, once the affection level hits adore, everyone ACTS like you're having sex anyway. 

This cracked me up when I saw it in-game... Wynne gave me the old, "half of us can't sleep at night" comment, and I really, really wish there had been a choice of response for "But we aren't doing anything!" 

Ah well, Zevran corrected that the next time they went back to camp, anyway.

LOL Yes, methinks someone else in camp was getting it on and you two get blamed for it!  Sten and Leliana, maybe?

[AnniLau]

Addai67 wrote...

LOL Yes, methinks someone else in camp was getting it on and you two get blamed for it!  Sten and Leliana, maybe?

Hmmm, I do find her standing by him in camp from time to time...

[Sabriana]

Thanks once again, Ejoslin. Drats anyways, my PC has Zevran at 100 adore and Alistair at 60-something interested. It would break the RP if she suddenly also snuggles up to Alistair and ignores Zevran completely.

Well, I guess I have to dust off my mage and run through again, this time getting Alistair to 100 love and then turning to Zevran. Any excuse is a good excuse, right?

I simply must remember not to speak to Wynne then. That would break RP as well. My poor HN has to wait until Orzammar and the werewolves are done, poor thing. I bet she hates me

I tried the Zevran 'adore to love' switch before Taliesen, but it didn't work. I'm guessing Zevran never refused to talk about Rinna because I seem to remember that he launched right into the tale when asked the first time around. He was already to high in approval. Damn that elf! It's so hard to keep his approval low, dagnabit.

Oh well, so now they still haven't been in the tent, and I'm determined to make both suffer, because I want to see the DT 'after' convos.

Selfish? Who? Me? Surely you jest!

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

LOL Yes, methinks someone else in camp was getting it on and you two get blamed for it!  Sten and Leliana, maybe?

Dayum. I hate you all, and I'm leaving now to play the game.

P.S. I'm starting to hate hot tea as well. While it does do an admirable job on the nasal passages, it is really painful if it goes down the wrong pipe.

[Eudaemonium]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh? Really? I was wondering about that, because it hasn't happened yet. Alistair is at 60ish and interested, I have no clue where Leliana stands, but I would bet my best boots that she's at 'interested' too. I can't seem to keep her at friendly, maybe it's time for me to write all responses down and try and figure out which ones are the culprit.

I have a question though. You wrote that a still 'in-love' Alistair will kiss the PC before he sacrifices himself. And you have a marvelous picture to prove it. How on earth do you keep Alistair at 'in-love' and still have Zevran as your one and only? Is there a way to turn Alistair's romance back on, even though Zevran calls my girl on the carpet and basically tells her "it's either him or me."?

From what I have gathered through playing, if Alistair splits up with you following the Landsmeet then it doesn't count as a break-up in the usual way. You can still romance Zevran/Leliana without being confronted about your feelings for Alistair, but he's still technically 'in-love', he just can't be with you. This means he'll give his life for you regardless of your status vis-a-vis the other romance options.

[Addai]

AnniLau wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

LOL Yes, methinks someone else in camp was getting it on and you two get blamed for it!  Sten and Leliana, maybe?

Hmmm, I do find her standing by him in camp from time to time...

LOL  She does think he's a "softie."  How would she know if she wasn't spending a lot of time looking at him?  Huh?  Huh?  Conspiracy theory confirmed!

BTW, someone explain to me why in the after-tent dialogue with Zevran, Alistair and a couple others are shown practically in your faces?  It's not like that in the Alistair scene.  You see a person or two, but they're at a distance.  I take it that, in combination with the fact that the tent flaps are practically non-existent in the Zevran scene, this is supposed to convey more openness or brazen-ness about it all.  In keeping with Zevran readily admitting he digs the PC, versus Alistair's shyness.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Thanks once again, Ejoslin. Drats anyways, my PC has Zevran at 100 adore and Alistair at 60-something interested. It would break the RP if she suddenly also snuggles up to Alistair and ignores Zevran completely.

Well, I guess I have to dust off my mage and run through again, this time getting Alistair to 100 love and then turning to Zevran. Any excuse is a good excuse, right?

I simply must remember not to speak to Wynne then. That would break RP as well. My poor HN has to wait until Orzammar and the werewolves are done, poor thing. I bet she hates me

I tried the Zevran 'adore to love' switch before Taliesen, but it didn't work. I'm guessing Zevran never refused to talk about Rinna because I seem to remember that he launched right into the tale when asked the first time around. He was already to high in approval. Damn that elf! It's so hard to keep his approval low, dagnabit.

Oh well, so now they still haven't been in the tent, and I'm determined to make both suffer, because I want to see the DT 'after' convos.

Selfish? Who? Me? Surely you jest!

The Adore to Love has got to be a glitch, and different things seem to trigger it.  It's fun, but it seems to be different for all the races, and even different for the city elf vs the dalish.  It is fun, but not worth really spending tons of time on.  I generally don't talk to Wynne until after Ali is dumped as well.  I just like the "now approve of Zevran" talk she gives too much to waste it on a "now approve of Alistair" talk.

Since I wasn't romancing Zevran, but had him interested, I couldn't give him gifts last game.  On the plus side, I found out what in Orzammar gives approval and how much (just siding with Branka, and only +4).  Anyway, at the Taliesen encounter I had him at 69 (care) and there was only one answer I could give that would not make him walk out on the fight, and it wasn't the one I expected (and it didn't have the "Zevran belongs with me now" option, which makes sense).  I'm not sure what would have happened if they had been going to the tent.  I'll have to check this, but I think that he goes to adore at a lower level if they're sharing a tent -- which also would explain how you can glitch it into going into "love" when he's still at adore.  If I'm wrong about that, I'm sure someone will correct me!

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:47 .

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

AnniLau wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

LOL Yes, methinks someone else in camp was getting it on and you two get blamed for it!  Sten and Leliana, maybe?

Hmmm, I do find her standing by him in camp from time to time...

LOL  She does think he's a "softie."  How would she know if she wasn't spending a lot of time looking at him?  Huh?  Huh?  Conspiracy theory confirmed!

BTW, someone explain to me why in the after-tent dialogue with Zevran, Alistair and a couple others are shown practically in your faces?  It's not like that in the Alistair scene.  You see a person or two, but they're at a distance.  I take it that, in combination with the fact that the tent flaps are practically non-existent in the Zevran scene, this is supposed to convey more openness or brazen-ness about it all.  In keeping with Zevran readily admitting he digs the PC, versus Alistair's shyness.

They do it on purpose.  Zevran's position is moved to make sure you can get a clear shot of both Alistair and Sten.  I think it's really funny, actually.  Especially if you're romancing Alistair and getting those sad eyes -- it's a guilt trip.  I think (not sure) if you've never romanced Alistair, you get the back of his head (I normally get the back of his head now), but if he has feelings, you get his face staring at you.

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Anyway, at the Taliesen encounter I had him at 69 (care) and there was only one answer I could give that would not make him walk out on the fight, and it wasn't the one I expected (and it didn't have the "Zevran belongs with me now" option, which makes sense).  

Really??  I've never had difficulty on the characters who have friended Zevran in getting him to fight for me.  I could swear you only have to have him at Warm, and I typically either say "Of course I'd have to be dead" or "Zevran doesn't need the Crows any longer."  Other than my first char who completely ignored him, I've never had him even sit out the Taliesin fight.

[ejoslin]

Eudaemonium wrote...

From what I have gathered through playing, if Alistair splits up with you following the Landsmeet then it doesn't count as a break-up in the usual way. You can still romance Zevran/Leliana without being confronted about your feelings for Alistair, but he's still technically 'in-love', he just can't be with you. This means he'll give his life for you regardless of your status vis-a-vis the other romance options.

It also works if you dumped him.  All that matters if he was at 100 love.  And he drops to friendly after you break up.  One thing, though.  Even if the dumping happens at the landsmeet -- it doesn't matter where -- and he is NOT at 100 friendly, even if he's at 99 friendly, you get the buddy ending, not the romantic ending.

What is interesting enough for me to have posted a screen shot of it, is if you're romancing Zevran, and Alistair sacrifices himself (my PC dumped Alistair for Zevran), Zevran is in the kiss scene, watching Alistair.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 06:55 .

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

They do it on purpose.  Zevran's position is moved to make sure you can get a clear shot of both Alistair and Sten.  I think it's really funny, actually.  Especially if you're romancing Alistair and getting those sad eyes -- it's a guilt trip.  I think (not sure) if you've never romanced Alistair, you get the back of his head (I normally get the back of his head now), but if he has feelings, you get his face staring at you.

I figured that!  Poor Alistair. 

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Anyway, at the Taliesen encounter I had him at 69 (care) and there was only one answer I could give that would not make him walk out on the fight, and it wasn't the one I expected (and it didn't have the "Zevran belongs with me now" option, which makes sense).  

Really??  I've never had difficulty on the characters who have friended Zevran in getting him to fight for me.  I could swear you only have to have him at Warm, and I typically either say "Of course I'd have to be dead" or "Zevran doesn't need the Crows any longer."  Other than my first char who completely ignored him, I've never had him even sit out the Taliesin fight.

Zevran doesn't need the Crows got him to fight with me, the others, nope.  69 Care, no tent!  When I choose, "I'd have to be dead first," he says, "Oh no, I'm not trying THAT again," then gives the "Taliesen, we were friends and more," blah blah blah.  Actually, his responses before walking out are pretty funny.  You also have a much easier fight without him.

Edit: It's actually kind of a nice dialog with Taliesen.  He tells him and the other crows he knows are there that they have a choice.  I suppose it was worth keeping him below 70 just to hear that.  You can tell he still cares for him.  It also gave a different angle to his talk about Rinna.  I actually wonder if that story was meant to be told after the Taliesen encounter as he uses Taliesen's name like it should be familiar to you.

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:02 .

[Addai]

Interesting. I know for a fact that both my human noble and Dalish Ali-girls got the line "...and I'm not about to let that happen." I don't recall where Zev was at at the time but I doubt it was above 69. Funny that, because of this, I had no idea what Zevran says if he sits out the fight. I recall that he said "and we shall see if the second time is a charm" or something like that, when he turned on my first character.

[jenovan]

LOL, sorry about the tea, Sabriana! XD

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...
LOL  She does think he's a "softie."  How would she know if she wasn't spending a lot of time looking at him?  Huh?  Huh?  Conspiracy theory confirmed!

BTW, someone explain to me why in the after-tent dialogue with Zevran, Alistair and a couple others are shown practically in your faces?  It's not like that in the Alistair scene.  You see a person or two, but they're at a distance.  I take it that, in combination with the fact that the tent flaps are practically non-existent in the Zevran scene, this is supposed to convey more openness or brazen-ness about it all.  In keeping with Zevran readily admitting he digs the PC, versus Alistair's shyness.

They do it on purpose.  Zevran's position is moved to make sure you can get a clear shot of both Alistair and Sten.  I think it's really funny, actually.  Especially if you're romancing Alistair and getting those sad eyes -- it's a guilt trip.  I think (not sure) if you've never romanced Alistair, you get the back of his head (I normally get the back of his head now), but if he has feelings, you get his face staring at you.

I find that startlingly creepy, especially Sten! XD  But my PC has (...obviously) never romanced Alistair, and I get his dopey mug looking over at us all the time.  Brr.    I'd be happy if he'd turn around. XD

[jenovan]

Oooh and I meant to ask about Taliesen today! How convenient. XD I hate to spoil myself, but I feel like I need the info for what I'm writing... :/ How much is revealed about Taliesen and Zevran's previous relationship? Were they just colleagues? Friends? Possibly more than friends? Equals? Not-equals?



If that seems entirely too spoilery to post here, I'd love a PM about it. ^^; Thanks in advance!

[Harelda]

I forget the exact quote, but I believe it's something along the lines of "We were friends once, and more..." Can't even remember which one said it, but I do remember thinking "Oh, so -that's- why Taliesen bumped off Zev's elf girl toy...Why can't I suggest that to Zev?!"

[Sabriana]

Well Jenovan, I have found out that it really depends on the individual point of view. When I heard it, I automatically assumed he meant 'more than friends' as in 'more like a brother'. I made sense to me, regarding the whole Zevran story.

I still can't see them as lovers, because they were far too close professionally to mess it up with sexual relations. Talking to Ignacio also reveals that Zevran was Taliesen's 'responsiblity'. It means to me that he was Zevran's master (Crow's quests).

However, the other views also have merit. Luckily the game is ambiguous enough to make sense one way or the other.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

Interesting. I know for a fact that both my human noble and Dalish Ali-girls got the line "...and I'm not about to let that happen." I don't recall where Zev was at at the time but I doubt it was above 69. Funny that, because of this, I had no idea what Zevran says if he sits out the fight. I recall that he said "and we shall see if the second time is a charm" or something like that, when he turned on my first character.

This was a human noble.  Had you gone to the tent with him ever?  That may make a difference.  He did ask to stay afterwards, and you can even get to the kiss dialog.  I've had him at 100 warm at that point (but dumped) in a different game and he asked to leave afterwards.  Since I had a bar in my inventory, giving that to him and getting him into the 70s has him stay always.

Afterwards, you can get him to admit that he and Taliesen were friends, and more, but that's all in his past now.  He looks and sounds so sad when saying this, too.

Edit: Exact words are (Zevran's at least, not sure about PC's, but it's close)

Zevran: He was a good friend whose only fault lie in his priorities. I had no wish to fight him and truly I would have preferred he not come after us at all.  But what is done is done.
PC: A good friend, was he?
Zevran: He was. And more. But there is no need to relive the past.  That is all behind me now.

He looks and sounds very sad; it seems to me that he was saying they were lovers.

He also says something about them being friends and more during the initial confrontation, but from that one it's not as clear.  The discussion afterwards, it's pretty obvious.

Second edit: I believe that Taliesen took the contract put out on Zevran for failing to kill the PC.  I don't think Taliesen was anything other than another assassin.

Note: did additional edits because I do that!

Modifié par ejoslin, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:37 .

[Addai]

Nope, neither GW had him to the tent. In both cases he stayed by telling him "I ask you to stay as a friend." Seemed quite happy about that, in fact. Dalish warden ended up having him accompany her to restore the Grey Wardens.

Edit:  It could be that he was 70+ and I'm just not remembering.  Hmm, I kept the Dalish character, I wonder if I have a game save that's near there where I could test it out... have to wait til I get home...

Modifié par Addai67, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:28 .

[jenovan]

Oooh, a treasure trove, thanks guys. XD
I have to admit "more than friends" implies "lovers" to me... probably not in a very romantic sense, but yeah. And what Harelda said also occurred to me, when Zevran seems to imply that it was Taliesen's idea that Rinna had to die. Yikes

As for the master/teacher thing vs. just another assassin... I got nothin'. But Taliesen is human, isn't he? That was what initially made me wonder if Taliesen might have been Zevran's mentor. I could see that going either way, though, it seems ambiguous....

Modifié par jenovan, 21 janvier 2010 - 07:49 .

[Creature 1]

IMO Taliesin was another run-of-the mill assassin. In the story about Rinna it sounds like they were all working as equals, or possibly with Zevran in charge, and Taliesin doesn't want to report the screwup to the higher-ups.

I'm trying to sort all of that out for my story and still don't have it figured out. In my version currently they met when Zevran was first bought by the Crows but then were sent to different locations before being reunited. But that may change.

Concur about the non-romantic extracurricular activities, but IMO Taliesin took that more seriously than Zevran.

Edit:  I have an impression that among the Crow rank and file, sex and race don't really matter.  Potentially supporting this notion is the fact that Zevran can take over the Crows in the epilogue, which would mean they don't even mind elves in leadership positions.  Probably because elves make good assassins, and the Crow's chief concern is that you're good at your job. 

Modifié par Creature 1, 21 janvier 2010 - 08:02 .