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[Sabriana]

True, true. I'm no spring chicken (shaddap Wynne) and I've seen casual sex make a mess of people's lives plenty of times. Half the time it came from the male side in f/m relationships.

None of my PCs will engage Isabel or Cammen (shudder) if they are in any serious relationship. That's not the way they tick, so you are right. Poor Cammen. I could never do that to him at any time. He's but a child, more or less. I wish I could talk him into seeing Geyna's refusal as a good thing, and that waiting is sometimes the better option.

I just view it as being plain wrong to make Zevran be okay with casual sex vs. sex with Alistair. Once sex is connected to deeper emotions, it's connected, period. To connect/disconnect at will has the feeling of the Multiple Personality Disorder. That's another reason I don't ever make it possible for those options to come up.

I draw from my experiences and learings in that way, and that's the way it'll play out in my games, I guess. Once a relationship hits the love strata, everything changes, including feelings about sex. It doesn't have to include possessiveness, but wishing to share myself exclusively and whole with another one in all aspects, and expecting the same in return.

Maybe it could be argued that role-playing is all about slipping into another skin altogether, but playing what I don't believe in/can't accept just makes it feel flat and forced to me, and devoid of fun. Heck, I even feel bad for Alistair when my PC dumps him for Zevran. I mean me, personally, feeling bad for a pixel person. Go figure.

To me, there is no doubt that Zevran is certainly capable of developing a friendship, even more than that, a deep emotional attachement to someone without bed-hopping. He certainly does it for my PC. He tells her that he will "By her side he'll storm the Black City itself". How many casual friends would be willing to do that? Not many, not if there is no strong, emotional attachment involved.

That Zevran bedded many, many women/men in his life-time, of there is no doubt. But he always made sure that there was a distinct disconnection from any emotions/feeling for the sex-mate, and he just went for the physical sensations.

Don't you just love RPGing?

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

I just view it as being plain wrong to make Zevran be okay with casual sex vs. sex with Alistair. Once sex is connected to deeper emotions, it's connected, period. To connect/disconnect at will has the feeling of the Multiple Personality Disorder. That's another reason I don't ever make it possible for those options to come up.

This.  I agree with.  Which is why I think that it's not until Zevran falls in love that he connects sex with deeper feelings.  He also doesn't act confused or conflicted about sex at all until then.  Up until that point, sex doesn't have the deeper meaning.  Caring for someone, that has deeper meaning.  But after he falls in love, it's a whole different story.  Even sex has changed for him; it's why he suddenly cannot have a casual, no-strings-attached relationship with the PC and will break up with her if she asks for that.

I like that the PC asks him what has changed rather than why he no longer will sleep with her -- because his falling in love did make everything change.  Sex was one part, but it could not have been the only part.

[Sabriana]

I agree with you as well. But a person disconnected from his/her emotions, and trying to deny them at later stages makes no sense. While I could see that Zevran is still ok with the PC having sex with others at 70 to 90, it should make a difference once he hits the 90+. By then he should be in utter turmoil, and not just shrug things off.

Not allowing the PC to continue on with Alistair/Leliana, and even breaking up with her if she wants to continue the free sex-around makes a little more sense in the 71+ area, as does his attitude about the PC's stranger-sex.

However, later on (90+), he should already be conflicted enough to not feel at ease with that blase or worse, approving behavior, if she has gratuitous sex with strangers.

It feels like: "Snap! One minute to the next, it's not ok anymore!" It's too suddenly, and too sharp a turn. I don't like it, in my mind (and game) Zevran's emotions and feelings start slowly and rise up ever higher, overpowering all his resistances and pre-conceived notions. When reaching the 90+ stage, he should definitely not be fine with the PC bagging Cammen and sharing herself between him and Isabel.

You know, I truly like the way we all can discuss different opinions here, it is done in such a calm and agreeable manner. I hate it when someone takes my opinions about a subject as a personal attack when it isn't meant as such.

I have my opinions, everyone else has theirs, and we can all agree to disagree. Or see things with another 'eye' so to speak. I've learned much about the Zevran romance here, and I thoroughly enjoy finding out about others' points of view.

[ejoslin]

Hmmm, it is an abrupt change, but I think with all three romances, it's an abrupt change. Well, with Alistair it's very much more a rude awakening. Leliana won't sleep with the PC at all until she's in love, after her personal quest, and then she's all roses and actually embraces her former sexuality, which she kept locked away. Alistair goes from warm infatuation to cold-sense-of-duty, and Zevran goes from keeping that part of him locked away to being overwhelmed by those feelings he's been trying to keep cold for so long. Also, there are two things he takes great pride in -- his skill as a seducer, and his skill as an assassin, and after that encounter with Taliesen, he's no longer defines himself by either.



I actually think his trusting the PC to tell her about Rinna after 71 is more touching than if he were to become possessive at that point. He finally lets himself trust again, and shares the one thing he swore he never would, letting the PC know him in a way that probably no one else would ever see, except, well, Taliesen. I really like the friendship growing into love aspect of their relationship, though. I really like that he places no demands on her, until, well, he does.



I also like that he is threatened by the PC caring for Alistair or Leliana rather than it being about sex. He can have lovers -- the sex is cheap. Zevran even is willing to accept the PC being married, as long as she doesn't love Alistair (or he doesn't love Anora). But the emotion, from him, is so much more, because that he doesn't give to just anyone.



And yes, I love hearing how other people view Zevran. There is so much open to interpretation. *grin* It makes it far more interesting than the Alistair romance which really is pretty straight forward.

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...

I build my warrior, and I think I have to respec her. I build her up as Sword and Shield, and it sucks. I'll give the DW a try. Gah, I suck at building warriors. But it is nice to be able to wear the heavy plate and throw my PC in the middle of the action.

I couldn't wait to get Jory's chainmail to and put it on her, even though it still always pains me that he has to die (*is ashamed*).

I was totally shocked to find that I had Alistair at around 93 in no time, my PC hadn't even met Zevran yet. I don't remember doing anything special, other than heavy flirting. Yeah, I admit, I wanted to see Alistair 'in love' before dumping him, but I was rather astounded that it went so fast. I didn't even check his line, and stared at the monitor in awe when Alistair gave my PC the 'let's go to bed' speech. I also finally got to hear Zevran's advice to Alistair. It never triggered the first time around, and subsequent play-throughs never had Alistair high enough by the time Zevran went into his 'me or him' speech. That was too funny, especially given the fact that Zevran was at around 65 and falling in love himself. Zevran, you sly dog. That certainly showed Alistair up as a bit immature (la la la la???).

Re. the DW warrior- throw her in the middle!  By all means!  If you've got some Con on her somehow, either in attribute points or Hale runes or the like, she can take the punishment and deal it out in spades.  Momentum is a good talent to have- makes you a total ninja.

As for Alistair, on my elf mage (I'm re-specing her to be a blood mage so had to backtrack, but before that anyway) I was planning to take him to bed before dumping him for Zevran.  I think it will make him happier than if he never gets a shot at the PC at all.  And I just felt terrible on my city elf that he had to be deflowered by Morrigan rather than by a supportive fellow Warden.  Heh.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 janvier 2010 - 03:54 .

[Wournos]

When romancing men in games it's strictly gaming to me (gay woman here) so I can't really say anything about that. Yes, he's sleezy and had it been irl he'd be getting on my nerves intensly to the point where I'd try bash his head in. But it is a game and so I look at his funny traits instead; like silly comments etc. Not that I can think of any right now.

[Sabriana]

Addai67 wrote...

Re. the DW warrior- throw her in the middle!  By all means!  If you've got some Con on her somehow, either in attribute points or Hale runes or the like, she can take the punishment and deal it out in spades.  Momentum is a good talent to have- makes you a total ninja.

As for Alistair, on my elf mage (I'm re-specing her to be a blood mage so had to backtrack, but before that anyway) I was planning to take him to bed before dumping him for Zevran.  I think it will make him happier than if he never gets a shot at the PC at all.  And I just felt terrible on my city elf that he had to be deflowered by Morrigan rather than by a supportive fellow Warden.  Heh.

Oh, thanks, good suggestion. She's in the fade right now, trying to make  her way through to the inner sanctum. It's kind of hard with a warrior, but I just have to remember to use the fade shapes. She'll pick up some CON there, good.

My PC (and I) was totally shocked when Alistair asked her to the tent. I didn't check for quite a while, and had no idea he had gone so high. But you are right, let him have a bit of fun before I let Morrigan and later on Anora at him. At least the poor boy knows that there's sex, and there's good sex.

[brgillespie]

I found it difficult to NOT summarily execute him after he led an attack upon my party...



Consequentially, he was absent from my first playthrough. In my second I shall be more forgiving. ;D

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...
Oh, thanks, good suggestion. She's in the fade right now, trying to make  her way through to the inner sanctum. It's kind of hard with a warrior, but I just have to remember to use the fade shapes. She'll pick up some CON there, good.

Yes, I don't play warriors any more, I miss the rogue's little tricks too much and I like being able to unlock chests and disarm traps myself.  The advantage of a warrior early on is that you start out with more Con and a better attack.  Riposte will give you a stun attack.  Flurry is nice for finishing an enemy off, particularly one like a mage where a few seconds can make a big difference.  I like Dual Weapon Sweep, also- it can frequently finish off an enemy who's low on health.

Until you get strong armor, the Chasind Robe is not actually a bad choice because of its +6 defense.  I paused during battle once while wearing that and happened to catch my girl in the middle of dodging a sword swipe- it looked rather impressive.

[jenovan]

brgillespie wrote...

I found it difficult to NOT summarily execute him after he led an attack upon my party...

Consequentially, he was absent from my first playthrough. In my second I shall be more forgiving. ;D

LOL, logical enough! ;D
I look at it this way: There's a reason the game stops everything to give you a choice... something interesting must be here. XD  But that's sort of metagaming...  it'd certainly be in character for some to get rid of him immediately. ;D

[jenovan]

Addai67 wrote...
Yes, I don't play warriors any more, I miss the rogue's little tricks too much and I like being able to unlock chests and disarm traps myself.  The advantage of a warrior early on is that you start out with more Con and a better attack.  Riposte will give you a stun attack.  Flurry is nice for finishing an enemy off, particularly one like a mage where a few seconds can make a big difference.  I like Dual Weapon Sweep, also- it can frequently finish off an enemy who's low on health.

Until you get strong armor, the Chasind Robe is not actually a bad choice because of its +6 defense.  I paused during battle once while wearing that and happened to catch my girl in the middle of dodging a sword swipe- it looked rather impressive.

Pausing during battle really can show some amazing things! I wish I could afford to stand back and watch combat more.  (put everyone on tactics and just observe??)

You guys are making me rethink what I want to do with my melee chick... I want to run DW for sure, but I do love being a rogue, in pretty much ANY setting.  What to do, what to do... XD

[AnniLau]

Namirsolo wrote...

Ow, that's painful. I can hardly bring myself to choose "mean" options when talking to Zevran.

I actually have no idea why he's making that face. I just happened to be clearing some auto-uploaded screenshots from my online profile at the time, saw that one and thought, "Aw, sad puppy!"

Modifié par AnniLau, 26 janvier 2010 - 05:36 .

[Sabriana]

I do miss my rogue, and my mage, but I do like my amazon. She just cut a swath through abominations with her DW, and she jumped an ogre! First time one of mine did that. Wow, I'm amazed. She beheads people to. Oh lords, what gal, I'm glad I'm not the one pi**ing her off, .lol.

I didn't even know that a warrior can also load up a few archer tricks. I start liking her better and better, and she looks beautiful and awesome in her heavy dwarven armor. So cool.

Thank goodness she has Zevran to peel her out of that heavy stuff, and tend to her sore bones and muscles

[Addai]

Sabriana wrote...

Thank goodness she has Zevran to peel her out of that heavy stuff, and tend to her sore bones and muscles

HA!  My current HNF was the first time I had chosen the dialogue option "and why would I need your services?" when picking up Zevran.  I loved his reply, about bed-warming.  My HNF said "so you can stab me in the back?" and he answered something like, "these things you say... you must drive the men of Ferelden wild."  LOL!  So classic Zevran.

And my poor conflicted elf mage, who was trying to get on Alistair's good side but gave up, then awkwardly tried to seduce Zevran... when he responded to her tent invitation with "oh, does anything in your tent need assassinating" etc., she told him to just forget it.  I hadn't tried that option before.  Loved his responses, including, "I just thought it was a Grey Warden thing."  *happy sigh*  After the whole Isolde business and the Tower she so needed some non-judgmental, fun, bed-warming.  LOL  I was thinking of making her a Fiona, but she is going to be a Zev girl to the end, I think.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 janvier 2010 - 07:27 .

[Sabriana]

Oh, I never tried those, Addai, and I'm not past that point yet. Yay, my fearsome warrior has some fun times coming.

I'm trying to take it a bit more slowly, I was already bowled over by Alistair's fast rise into 'love'. Now Zevran is at 62, and I need to be careful. I swear that man shoots up in the romance department like a missile. I haven't given him any gifts yet, but my PC couldn't resist flirting a bit with him. She finds him darn attractive, even though she still feels that Alistair is her man. She's wavering though, I can tell, hehe.

I wonder though, he gets into high numbers so fast, I sometimes wonder if he doesn't approve of things without conveniently letting me know with the "Zevran (dis)approves +- whatever" message popping up. He does that on purpose, just to bamboozle my PC and me, I swear it.

I'll go back to my warrior now and see what I else I can do with her. I'm so proud of her. This is actually the first time ever that I really enjoy playing a warrior. I wish I could show her off. She's very pretty too, I DL PineappleTree's color thingies for eyes and hair, and she looks smashing. No wonder Zevran and Alistair are smitten. I'm keeping an eye on Leliana too. We got through the 'hair' thing without her falling in love, now I'm dreading the 'shoe' talk, sigh.

[Addai]

Well, there are screenshots, Sabriana. *hint hint*

[Sabriana]

Lol, Addai, yes there are. I'll see if I can get some good ones during Leliana's song, that's when the PCs are shown up close and personal.

Now I shall get back to murdering villains, as the saying goes. I have so much armor to try, so many swords to test, so many bad people to kill, and a handsome elf to seduce...., I'm simply swamped.

[_Aine_]

Sabriana wrote...

I'll go back to my warrior now and see what I else I can do with her. I'm so proud of her. This is actually the first time ever that I really enjoy playing a warrior. I wish I could show her off. She's very pretty too, I DL PineappleTree's color thingies for eyes and hair, and she looks smashing. No wonder Zevran and Alistair are smitten. I'm keeping an eye on Leliana too. We got through the 'hair' thing without her falling in love, now I'm dreading the 'shoe' talk, sigh.

hehe I could have wrote this.    I am crushing on my own warrior avatar, keep calling my husband in to see her  Wish she would upload to this site but.... 

I wish that Loghain was romance-able or a least tease-able.  My slightly wrong side of the fence vixen rogue wants a piece of him, just to be a nuisance...or so her story goes.  She would have a hard time letting go of Zevran, but all in the name of experience fun for her.  My warrior ended up despite my best intentions to be very loyal to Alistair and has been avoiding Leliana very very carefully. 

[Addai]

For those of you who have had HNF Zev girls, how did you get your PC to trust him RP-wise? My HNF has told him that she is fond of him, which just sort of slipped out (heh). But I don't know if she can trust him enough to be in a relationship. He was an agent of Howe and Loghain (she has figured out by now that these two are working together), and she is too close to having had her whole household assassinated, albeit in cruder fashion than the Antivan way.

Modifié par Addai67, 26 janvier 2010 - 08:11 .

[Sabriana]

You are really something, Addai. I'm trying to get back to my warrior, darn it

But to answer your question, my HN didn't trust him at first. However, with Zevran it was all business, he was hired to do a job, no feelings involved. No passion, no hate, just plain old "what can I get you today, madam/sir" kind of business.

The first thing my HN appreciated was that he made her laugh. Lords, some of his lines are funny upon first meeting. Second, she saw his reasoning. And to top it off, the first fight they get in, he drops everything and sprints to her aid almost immediately.

She's keeping an eye on him in the beginning, and her dog is doing the same. But Zevran is really hard to put down, and as soon as the "is there no one I should stay for?" speech comes up, she starts getting veerryy interested in the elf.



@ shantisands

I agree about the teasable part. Especially after his conversation with Morrigan when he agrees to do the ritual. Boy does he look appalled and disgusted as she waltzes toward him. Poor dude, lol.

[Marigold3]

Keep in mind with your human nobles that your sister-in-law was Antivan. I just assume my FHN has a soft spot for Antivans in memory of her brother and his family. At least that's enough of a start to get the relationship ball rolling.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

For those of you who have had HNF Zev girls, how did you get your PC to trust him RP-wise? My HNF has told him that she is fond of him, which just sort of slipped out (heh). But I don't know if she can trust him enough to be in a relationship. He was an agent of Howe and Loghain (she has figured out by now that these two are working together), and she is too close to having had her whole household assassinated, albeit in cruder fashion than the Antivan way.

Oh, my HN (all of them, I've played 5 eeep) have been party girls. She doesn't start off in a relationship; she starts off having sex.  On her, I have always questioned Zevran afterwards if seducing her was part of his plan -- his answer really does set her at ease.  Alistair is too prissy, but is good enough to marry (but only one of them ever had a relationship with him) for her own goals.

I also believe there is a strong chemistry there.  Alistair will comment on it if he's interested.  Sometimes you just can't fight that attraction.

[Cuddlezarro]

your sister in law is antivan if your a HN? she never commented on being an antivan in any of my HN playthroughs but then again all my HN's are also male so that might be why



also that picture of zevran being sad makes me want to load up my game and shower him with more gifts to try make him happy

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

Addai67 wrote...

For those of you who have had HNF Zev girls, how did you get your PC to trust him RP-wise? My HNF has told him that she is fond of him, which just sort of slipped out (heh). But I don't know if she can trust him enough to be in a relationship. He was an agent of Howe and Loghain (she has figured out by now that these two are working together), and she is too close to having had her whole household assassinated, albeit in cruder fashion than the Antivan way.

Oh, my HN (all of them, I've played 5 eeep) have been party girls. She doesn't start off in a relationship; she starts off having sex.  On her, I have always questioned Zevran afterwards if seducing her was part of his plan -- his answer really does set her at ease.  Alistair is too prissy, but is good enough to marry (but only one of them ever had a relationship with him) for her own goals.

I also believe there is a strong chemistry there.  Alistair will comment on it if he's interested.  Sometimes you just can't fight that attraction.

Yes, I can see that.  My first HNF was virginal and really loved Alistair.  This one wouldn't mind giving him a roll in the hay, and she's amused to see how shy he is being about it, but doesn't have strong feelings for him.  Meanwhile she is getting more and more intrigued by Zevran.  She just got the invitation to come talk to Master Ignacio.  I've never done that quest line before and she is mulling it over.  She has asked Zevran to teach her how to become an assassin- wants to stay one step or a dozen ahead of Howe- and right now is trying to decide if the Ignacio thing is a set-up.  She will probably take Zevran with her, to test him a little and/or have him help her try to figure out what the Crows are doing in Ferelden.  In half her mind she thinks that if it's a set-up, Zevran could be in on it.  But I think she is going to do it and just have done.  I imagine through that she could get some good insight into Zevran through this.  We'll see.

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

your sister in law is antivan if your a HN? she never commented on being an antivan in any of my HN playthroughs but then again all my HN's are also male so that might be why

also that picture of zevran being sad makes me want to load up my game and shower him with more gifts to try make him happy

Sure she does.  At least in the HNF version, when you're talking to Fergus, if you tell him about your sex life.