35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Carliw]

jenovan wrote...

Hmm, I definitely wasn't trying to discourage him, although it's possible I selected some sort of neutral answer that prevented him from mentioning a kiss.   Might have to go back and check.

He asks for a kiss if  the PC is male too - just checked. I don't know how obvious you have to make it that you're interested, though.

[jenovan]

Carliw wrote...
He asks for a kiss if  the PC is male too - just checked. I don't know how obvious you have to make it that you're interested, though.

Ahh, maybe that conversation just has to take place after a higher approval rating, then.   Good to know (even if you can't kiss him... ).

(The context sensitivity of the dialogue in this game is mind-boggling! )

[Carliw]

ejoslin wrote...
And if you tell him (if you leave him at the gates), no matter what happens, I love you, he says, Cruel to the end.

It's a pretty strong reaction, and shows how deeply the PC's actions/words affect him.
To be honest, I always expected Zevran to be careful about his confessions. I would find it OOC othewise, at least based on what I learned about him until now. I mean, it's clear that he's crossing the boundaries and stepping way out of his comfort zone, when he falls in love and has to decide what to do next.
In the case before the final batle, where you leave him in front of the gates, I can undertsand why he says so - if my lover forced me to leave, when I would give anything to be by his side, and then he'd toss in an "I love you" at the same time, I would find it cruel too.
On top on that, Zevran is always half-expecting the PC to change his/her mind and end the relationship, or simply send him away without many explanations, so leaving him out there must have an even deeper impact on him.

For example, the scene where you tell him he can go away (after you've defeated Taliesen) is touching; he's so confused, waiting for the PC to decide for him and probably hoping in secret the PC will ask him to stay. (That is, if your approval with Zevran is high enough.)

ejoslin wrote...
Now I love discussing and dissecting it, but I'm glad I had all those surprises the first time.

Hm, I know what you mean, but usually I start feeling attached to something only after I've disseceted it to the bones. It means I also have to grumble about all kind of plot holes and similar, but that's how it is. :S

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: The ONLY time you'll get the "royal scandal" talk is if you're marrying Alistair or Anora.  There are actually two talks I've seen but I don't think they have different triggers.  He offers to go away, and you can tell him you don't see why it has to end.  He tells you he loves a royal scandal, but chances are one of you will still die (he's already offered that if you followed some of the dialog trees) so problem solved.

Ah, thank you! I didn't know that was part of the 'royal scandal' talk. The files are separated.

[Carliw]

jenovan wrote...
I think this is part of what really draws me to the character.  I think watching someone trying to navigate through feelings this way is so captivating.  (It has an even stronger draw for me as a writer because I have an old D&D assassin character who was in a similar situation, so seeing it played out by a professional writing team is quite interesting.)

I agree with this, and now I'm curious about that character.

jenovan wrote...
Speaking of which, I love how there seem to be different conversation options because of that.  Zevran seems  quite careful not to (seriously) push his affections where they are not wanted in this case (and as Carliw said, it's great that he takes a "no" with grace).  His little checks on the PC's preferences are charming -- it plays well into the fact that I'm trying to play the PC as, how shall I say it, bi-curious.

Yes, he may make many sex jokes in general, but when he's approaching the PC, he's very wary, always testing the waters first ("Would you be offended if I said..." "Does it bother you that..." "If you're not of a mind however, it's no tragedy..."  "But if you would rather I desisted, I shall do so. I've no wish to make you... uncomfortable." ). It's funny when you compare this to all the players who feel threated by his advances. And then hilarius when you compare that to the reactions of those who ended in bed Zevran without realizing it. I have to say - there forums a source of great amusement sometimes.

Haerja wrote...
i think that happens when you tell him to go while he's in love and you already had that above mentioned conversation.
did that once out of curiousity, not cool. other choices there were great too.

After the 'quest' with Taliesen? Or just when sometimes if you tell him to go while in camp?

Modifié par Carliw, 01 janvier 2010 - 06:31 .

[ejoslin]

Carliw wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
And if you tell him (if you leave him at the gates), no matter what happens, I love you, he says, Cruel to the end.

It's a pretty strong reaction, and shows how deeply the PC's actions/words affect him.
To be honest, I always expected Zevran to be careful about his confessions. I would find it OOC othewise, at least based on what I learned about him until now. I mean, it's clear that he's crossing the boundaries and stepping way out of his comfort zone, when he falls in love and has to decide what to do next.
In the case before the final batle, where you leave him in front of the gates, I can undertsand why he says so - if my lover forced me to leave, when I would give anything to be by his side, and then he'd toss in an "I love you" at the same time, I would find it cruel too.
On top on that, Zevran is always half-expecting the PC to change his/her mind and end the relationship, or simply send him away without many explanations, so leaving him out there must have an even deeper impact on him.

For example, the scene where you tell him he can go away (after you've defeated Taliesen) is touching; he's so confused, waiting for the PC to decide for him and probably hoping in secret the PC will ask him to stay. (That is, if your approval with Zevran is high enough.)

ejoslin wrote...
Now I love discussing and dissecting it, but I'm glad I had all those surprises the first time.

Hm, I know what you mean, but usually I start feeling attached to something only after I've disseceted it to the bones. It means I also have to grumble about all kind of plot holes and similar, but that's how it is. :S

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: The ONLY time you'll get the "royal scandal" talk is if you're marrying Alistair or Anora.  There are actually two talks I've seen but I don't think they have different triggers.  He offers to go away, and you can tell him you don't see why it has to end.  He tells you he loves a royal scandal, but chances are one of you will still die (he's already offered that if you followed some of the dialog trees) so problem solved.

Ah, thank you! I didn't know that was part of the 'royal scandal' talk. The files are separated.

*grin* I think you've examined the Zevran dialogs and much as I have.  What gets me, and I didn't find out until this board, is if you tell him you want him around to kiss, he will never fall in love with you.  It makes sense, but is so sad.

And again, I'm not saying anything about the feelings he expresses.  I think he shows his love through his words and actions more deeply than if he were to say the words.  After all, the conversation with Alistair after he tells you he loves you is, "I don't know WHERE we're going."  Words are cheap.  I was just saying that Zevran will never say the words, "I love you."  He explains why, that he grew up with people seeking the illusion of love.  To him, those words are cheap, and what he feels is real.

It's such a beautiful story arc.

[Spads926]

I have to say that romancing Zev was a lot more exciting than good ol' Al. I do like Alistair a lot, but like ejoslin said, "it's a beautiful story arc".



The only thing that bothered me at the end was when everyone addresses you before you take your party to the top of the tower, Zev was still calling me a "good friend", even after all the romancing. I don't know if it's a dialogue bug of oversight, or if it's part of Zev's hardened emotions. I mean we are going into an epic battle surrounded by everyone.

[AndreaDraco]

I agree with Carliw and Ejoslin. I tried the 'I want you around to kiss you' option too, and I was really sad when I discovered that it can't lead to more than 'adore', but it actually makes sense: at that point, Zevran is in love with you and way past the moment when he only wanted some sex relief. In fact, we are at the moment where he refuses to slip with you (after Taliesen).



It's really a beautiful story arc.

[BlastedLands]

Carliw wrote...

After the 'quest' with Taliesen? Or just when sometimes if you tell him to go while in camp?

oh, sorry, guess i'm still a little hangover-impaired. i meant to say that i only got this in the very end, when i was sort of through with any conversation regarding the relationship....

[Carliw]

ejoslin wrote...
*grin* I think you've examined the Zevran dialogs and much as I have. 

It's part of the fun, yes? 

ejoslin wrote...
What gets me, and I didn't find out until
this board, is if you tell him you want him around to kiss, he will
never fall in love with you.  It makes sense, but is so sad.

Actually, I spent some time thinking about this, and I came to the conclusion it must be a bug.

If you are only friends with Zev, when you return to camp, a cutscene with Zevran will trigger the next time you talk with him. He offers his thanks, and you have the option to tell him that he's 'more than a friend,' which starts the romance (again?).

If you are romancing him, you get instead two cutscenes. First the one where he offers you his earring, and then again the one I mentiond above.

If he kisses you in the alley, you get NOTHING. No cutscene at all, no conlusion. By logic, you should receive at least one CS where he thanks you. The game simply doesn't update.

Hell, even if if you choose the 'of course, we're friends' option in the second 'thank you' dialogue (if you've chosen a different option back in the alley, not the one where you get the kiss), his status still changes from 'adore' to 'love,' if you've been romancing him. Or at least it happened when I tested it, so I find it unlikely that nothing would happen afer the kiss option.
Sadly, I don't know how to check the flags and what happens (or should happen) with them.

ejoslin wrote...
And again, I'm not saying anything about the feelings he expresses.  I think he shows his love through his words and actions more deeply than if he were to say the words.  After all, the conversation with Alistair after he tells you he loves you is, "I don't know WHERE we're going."  Words are cheap.  I was just saying that Zevran will never say the words, "I love you."  He explains why, that he grew up with people seeking the illusion of love.  To him, those words are cheap, and what he feels is real.

It's such a beautiful story arc.

Oh, if you mean those precise words, then I agree.
Eh, poor Ali, there are so many things he's not sure about, and he usually ends up thinking he has to do the right thing (the right thing usually being the duty others expect him to perform). But yes, in cases like this it's easy to get the impression his love is cheap.

Modifié par Carliw, 01 janvier 2010 - 06:55 .

[ejoslin]

Carliw wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
*grin* I think you've examined the Zevran dialogs and much as I have. 

It's part of the fun, yes? 

ejoslin wrote...
What gets me, and I didn't find out until
this board, is if you tell him you want him around to kiss, he will
never fall in love with you.  It makes sense, but is so sad.

Actually, I spent some time thinking about this, and I came to the conclusion it must be a bug.

If you are only friends with Zev, when you return to camp, a cutscene with Zevran will trigger the next time you talk with him. He offers his thanks, and you have the option to tell him that he's 'more than a friend,' which starts the romance (again?).

If you are romancing him, you get instead two cutscenes. First the one where he offers you his earring, and then again the one I mentiond above.

If he kisses you in the alley, you get NOTHING. No cutscene at all, no conlusion. By logic, you should receive at least one CS where he thanks you. The game simply doesn't update.

Hell, even if if you choose the 'of course, we're friends' option in the second 'thank you' dialogue (if you've chosen a different option back in the alley, not the one where you get the kiss), his status still changes from 'adore' to 'love,' if you've been romancing him. Or at least it happened when I tested it, so I find it unlikely that nothing would happen afer the kiss option.
Sadly, I don't know how to check the flags and what happens (or should happen) with them.

ejoslin wrote...
And again, I'm not saying anything about the feelings he expresses.  I think he shows his love through his words and actions more deeply than if he were to say the words.  After all, the conversation with Alistair after he tells you he loves you is, "I don't know WHERE we're going."  Words are cheap.  I was just saying that Zevran will never say the words, "I love you."  He explains why, that he grew up with people seeking the illusion of love.  To him, those words are cheap, and what he feels is real.

It's such a beautiful story arc.

Oh, if you mean those precise words, then I agree.
Eh, poor Ali, there are so many things he's not sure about, and he usually ends up thinking he has to do the right thing (the right thing usually being the duty others expect him to perform). But yes, in cases like this it's easy to get the impression his love is cheap.

I don't think it's a bug.  He wants desperately for you to ask him to stay, and if you go that route, you're telling him it's only the physical you want from him.

And yes, that was all I meant.  He would never say the words.  What he feels, it's far stronger than saying the words could ever convey anyway.  He doesn't value "love" -- he was raised that it was cheap and false and something to be bartered.  When he calls the PC a true friend, he expresses more love than if he were just saying flowery words to the same effect.

Edit: If you choose to tell him during his "thank you" dialog that you two are friends as opposed to more than friends, he offers to die for you (not using those exact words, of course).  Gah, I am spending too much time thinking about this.

The fakest thing he ever says, which kind of goes along the same line, is if you tell him you actually don't want to hear about his past sexual experiences.  He gives some absolute crap line which obviously is supposed to soothe your ego, and the words are nice, and they just ring so false.  SO I preferred the whole "true friend" thing.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 janvier 2010 - 07:25 .

[Eruanna Guerrein]

Zev's romantically appealing??







He's a good guy for a friend and some harmless flirting but anything more and I get creeped out - not as much about who he is, although that's it a little, but mostly his looks bother me. He's just really tiny and also the same height as me and a bunch of things I personally don't find attractive. But he's a fun character and I like having him around.

[Carliw]

ejoslin wrote...

I don't think it's a bug.  He wants desperately for you to ask him to stay, and if you go that route, you're telling him it's only the physical you want from him.

And yes, that was all I meant.  He would never say the words.  What he feels, it's far stronger than saying the words could ever convey anyway.  He doesn't value "love" -- he was raised that it was cheap and false and something to be bartered.  When he calls the PC a true friend, he expresses more love than if he were just saying flowery words to the same effect. 

I think it's a bug.
If it is an intended feature/twist, then I guess the storytelling doesn't convnce me in this case.
Some time ago, when i first found out about it, it did cross my mind that it might be as you say, that Zevran interprets it as your lusting over his body/playing with him and nothing more, but it doesn't convice me.
1. As one who uses similar words/tactics to hide behind, Zevran should be able to either see trough it or at least wait before casting final judgement.
2. In fact, that judgement normally comes later at the camp, during the conversation(s), where you can explain your reasons and Zevran can explain his.
3. If he stays with you, Zevran thanks you either way, romanced or not (I gather it's different if he runs away during the encounter and leaves you to face Taliesen alone, or if he turns on you and dies there, of course.).
The way he starts the conversation shows that he doesn't know what the PC's intentions were:
"I did not thank you. It occurs to me now that you have freed me from the Crows, and yet I did not think to thank you for it. No matter why you did it, still it was done, and I the benefactor. So... thank you."
A playful line from the PC about how it would be difficult to kiss Zev if he left IMO is not enough to make Zevran think there's no possibility of anything else between him and the PC.
IDK, I think he would want a honest conversation later, in the privacy of the camp.
And in any case, it's not enough to make him not want to thank you for freeing him from the Crows. (Er... sorry for the strange sentence.) You don't lose approval. He doesn't change his opinion of you. He would thank you.

So yeah, not convinced. But well, since none of us has proof to support either speculation, guess we'll have to disagree for now. XD


Edit to include the edit : 

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: If you choose to tell him during his "thank you" dialog that
you two are friends as opposed to more than friends, he offers to die
for you (not using those exact words, of course).  Gah, I am spending
too much time thinking about this.

Yes, and as I said, I didn't expect that at the time, it was a nice surprise. Hehe, if you are spending too much time on this, you're not the only one.

ejoslin wrote...
The fakest thing he ever
says, which kind of goes along the same line, is if you tell him you
actually don't want to hear about his past sexual experiences.  He
gives some absolute crap line which obviously is supposed to soothe
your ego, and the words are nice, and they just ring so false.  SO I
preferred the whole "true friend" thing.

You mean where he says you're the only woman he has ever slept with... in Ferelden? Or did you mean something else?

Modifié par Carliw, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:40 .

[Carliw]

Haerja wrote...
oh,
sorry, guess i'm still a little hangover-impaired. i meant to say that
i only got this in the very end, when i was sort of through with any
conversation regarding the relationship....

Ah, thanks! I hope your hangover is getting better.

Modifié par Carliw, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:03 .

[jenovan]

Carliw wrote...

jenovan wrote...
I think this is part of what really draws me to the character.  I think watching someone trying to navigate through feelings this way is so captivating.  (It has an even stronger draw for me as a writer because I have an old D&D assassin character who was in a similar situation, so seeing it played out by a professional writing team is quite interesting.)

I agree with this, and now I'm curious about that character.

To avoid going wildly off-topic, I'll send you a brief message about him.

Carliw wrote...
Yes, he may make many sex jokes in general, but when he's approaching the PC, he's very wary, always testing the waters first ("Would you be offended if I said..." "Does it bother you that..." "If you're not of a mind however, it's no tragedy..."  "But if you would rather I desisted, I shall do so. I've no wish to make you... uncomfortable." ). It's funny when you compare this to all the players who feel threated by his advances. And then hilarius when you compare that to the reactions of those who ended in bed Zevran without realizing it. I have to say - there forums a source of great amusement sometimes.

LOL, yes... I found the "beware Zevran's massage" thread particularly hilarious. XD  It sounds as if, while Zevran may seem to be flirting humorously, he takes the PC's replies a bit more literally.

[PuffyTail]

Well first off, what people find attractive in a fictional character and what they'd find attractive in the real world can be two very different things

I suppose I like Zevran because he's very good at being lewd and outrageous without simultaneously being creepy or demeaning towards his object, which is a delicate balance to pull off in fiction and all but impossible to pull off in the real world (where the baggage of sexism and violence towards women colors every interaction).  Also the appeal of reforming such an outspoken bad boy into the PC's devoted paramour, by sheer virtue of how full of awesome he or she is, is a strong one.

Modifié par PuffyTail, 01 janvier 2010 - 08:49 .

[ejoslin]

Carliw wrote...

You mean where he says you're the only woman he has ever slept with... in Ferelden? Or did you mean something else?

Yes, and how all others pale in comparison to her.  He knows the pretty words to use, which is why it's more special that he chooses not to use them.

Edit: And the funniest thing I found about his party dialog, is there comes a point where you invite Leliana to join in on the fun.  Anyway, if you have her and Zevran in the conversation and he offers to "knock boots" with her to help her find release, she takes him up on it and he backs down.  Of course, this has nothing to do with the foursome, but the only time that can take place is when you're sleeping with him but he's still not above 70 (adore) yet.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 janvier 2010 - 09:40 .

[keesio74]

Zevran is smooth and exotic. He also takes the initiative regarding romances... another thing most women find attractive.

Modifié par keesio74, 01 janvier 2010 - 09:40 .

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

Carliw wrote...

jenovan wrote...
I think this is part of what really draws me to the character.  I think watching someone trying to navigate through feelings this way is so captivating.  (It has an even stronger draw for me as a writer because I have an old D&D assassin character who was in a similar situation, so seeing it played out by a professional writing team is quite interesting.)

I agree with this, and now I'm curious about that character.

To avoid going wildly off-topic, I'll send you a brief message about him.

Carliw wrote...
Yes, he may make many sex jokes in general, but when he's approaching the PC, he's very wary, always testing the waters first ("Would you be offended if I said..." "Does it bother you that..." "If you're not of a mind however, it's no tragedy..."  "But if you would rather I desisted, I shall do so. I've no wish to make you... uncomfortable." ). It's funny when you compare this to all the players who feel threated by his advances. And then hilarius when you compare that to the reactions of those who ended in bed Zevran without realizing it. I have to say - there forums a source of great amusement sometimes.

LOL, yes... I found the "beware Zevran's massage" thread particularly hilarious. XD  It sounds as if, while Zevran may seem to be flirting humorously, he takes the PC's replies a bit more literally.

But . . . But . . . But . . . He even asks then before hand if it can go further!  There is no way you can "mistakenly" end up in that tent.  

[Topaz Bee]

Heh. I actually bothered registering my game so I could comment on this topic. Because somehow, although I've always hated modern Tolkien-style elves, and I don't find him physically attractive in the slightest, Zev became my favorite DAO character.

I had just owned a bunch of Darkspawn, and at the end of the fight he shouted "We are ridiculously awesome!"

Right then and there I decided to roll a male city elf to romance him. It was for laughs mainly, but I ended up being blown away by how loyal, sweet, and sincere he turned out to be. From a purely superficial perspective, it's rather anomalous and out-of-character it is for me to like somebody like Zevran. But I truly feel he is one of, if not the best written BioWare romances.

[Carliw]

jenovan wrote...
LOL, yes... I found the "beware Zevran's massage" thread particularly hilarious. XD  It sounds as if, while Zevran may seem to be flirting humorously, he takes the PC's replies a bit more literally.

I still half-suspect that was just a joke. I mean, how can you miss TEH SIGNZ?

ejoslin wrote...
Yes, and how all others pale in comparison to her.  He knows the pretty words to use, which is why it's more special that he chooses not to use them.

I know what you mean. His sweet/smooth talking often has the opposite effect. (Yeah, butter up the other side and fry me in a pan while you're at it, Zev.)
It seems more like something he would say to his average love conquest.
Romancing him with a male PC (luckily) means much less comments/compliments that sound insincere.

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: And the funniest thing I found about his party dialog, is there comes a point where you invite Leliana to join in on the fun.  Anyway, if you have her and Zevran in the conversation and he offers to "knock boots" with her to help her find release, she takes him up on it and he backs down.  Of course, this has nothing to do with the foursome, but the only time that can take place is when you're sleeping with him but he's still not above 70 (adore) yet.

That conversaton was hilarus, and I have to say I wasn't surprised Zevran turned down the 'offer.'
It did make me want to tease Zevran a bit, though.  (A bit self-conscious, are we? Are you afraid the rumored elven 'parts' won't live up to the fame? Suddenly shy?) But I guess Leliana already sounded smug enough for two... or enough for everyone in the group. Revenge is sweet sometimes.
I don't think he's very serious with his 'public' (bedding) proposals, however. It's just that talking about sex is a second nature to him. He seems slightly more picky when it comes to the actual act (His reactions if you ask him into your tent right after you meet him show both wit and reluctance.)
I never tried the threesome/foursome/whateversome. What precisely are his reactions when he's at adore and before? I think you mentioned he forces you to choose between him and Leli.

BTW, I liked how he helped get the Dualist specialisation unlocked. One of my characters was playing cards with Isabela and couldn't win (didn't have high enough dexterity nor cunning), and eventually Zevran intervened. He didn't suggest my PC to go to bed with Isabela, but instead he told me Isabela was cheating and then helped me win. Funny, no?

EDIT:

Topaz Bee wrote...

Heh. I actually bothered registering
my game so I could comment on this topic. Because somehow, although
I've always hated modern Tolkien-style elves, and I don't find him
physically attractive in the slightest, Zev became my favorite DAO
character.

I had just owned a bunch of Darkspawn, and at the end of the fight he shouted "We are ridiculously awesome!"

Right
then and there I decided to roll a male city elf to romance him. It was
for laughs mainly, but I ended up being blown away by how loyal, sweet,
and sincere he turned out to be. From a purely superficial perspective,
it's rather anomalous and out-of-character it is for me to like
somebody like Zevran. But I truly feel he is one of, if not the best
written BioWare romances.

Welcome! Yes, I know exactly what you mean. It was a surprise for me too; I've never expected to actually like him as much as I do, since at the beginning he seems the type to which I would sooner say, "You know what, you stay at one side of the camp, and I'll stay at the other. We can still talk and be best friends and all."

His mid-battle lines are funny, agreed.

Modifié par Carliw, 01 janvier 2010 - 11:58 .

[ejoslin]

Carliw wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: And the funniest thing I found about his party dialog, is there comes a point where you invite Leliana to join in on the fun.  Anyway, if you have her and Zevran in the conversation and he offers to "knock boots" with her to help her find release, she takes him up on it and he backs down.  Of course, this has nothing to do with the foursome, but the only time that can take place is when you're sleeping with him but he's still not above 70 (adore) yet.

That conversaton was hilarus, and I have to say I wasn't surprised Zevran turned down the 'offer.'
It did make me want to tease Zevran a bit, though.  (A bit self-conscious, are we? Are you afraid the rumored elven 'parts' won't live up to the fame? Suddenly shy?) But I guess Leliana already sounded smug enough for two... or enough for everyone in the group. Revenge is sweet sometimes.
I don't think he's very serious with his 'public' (bedding) proposals, however. It's just that talking about sex is a second nature to him. He seems slightly more picky when it comes to the actual act (His reactions if you ask him into your tent right after you meet him show both wit and reluctance.)
I never tried the threesome/foursome/whateversome. What precisely are his reactions when he's at adore and before? I think you mentioned he forces you to choose between him and Leli.

BTW, I liked how he helped get the Dualist specialisation unlocked. One of my characters was playing cards with Isabela and couldn't win (didn't have high enough dexterity nor cunning), and eventually Zevran intervened. He didn't suggest my PC to go to bed with Isabela, but instead he told me Isabela was cheating and then helped me win. Funny, no?

Ohoh, I've GOT to try that -- my current character is a dwarven warrior but her dexterity may be too high.  But Zevran will only join in the threeway if you ask or order him to, and doesn't seem nearly as enamored with Isabela and their past as she is.  And yes, I agree that Zevran is not serious when hitting on the other party members.  I mean, he hits on everyone but Alistair and Sten.  

As far as the foursome, you have to have Leliana hardened and at love and sleeping with her.  Zevran will make you choose as soon as he hits adore no matter what.  It may be possible with Zev's affection at adore IF you have Leliana hardened and you don't talk to him.  It's pretty easy to get Leliana to fall in love after hardening her (I just did so), and this play through I haven't visited Isabela so I'll try it.  Worst that will happen is it won't work.

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 janvier 2010 - 12:01 .

[Carliw]

ejoslin wrote...
 And yes, I agree that Zevran is not serious when hitting on the other party members.  I mean, he hits on everyone but Alistair and Sten.  

He does 'hit' on Alistair once, if we may call it so. It's when Alistair asks Zevran about the tattoes and then decides he wants one too. Zevran agrees to make it, but says that making a tattoo is a ritual that involves certain preparations. When Alistair learns that those preparations include a bath and a massage with scented oil from Zevran, he pretty much changes his mind.

Commentary: If Alistair knows the meaning of 'massage', so should every man in Ferelden.

ejoslin wrote...

But Zevran will only join in the threeway if you ask or order him to,
and doesn't seem nearly as enamored with Isabela and their past as she
is.  (...)

As far as the foursome, you have to have Leliana hardened and at love
and sleeping with her.  Zevran will make you choose as soon as he hits
adore no matter what.  It may be possible with Zev's affection at adore
IF you have Leliana hardened and you don't talk to him.  It's pretty
easy to get Leliana to fall in love after hardening her (I just did
so), and this play through I haven't visited Isabela so I'll try it.
 Worst that will happen is it won't work.

Aha, I see. Thank you!
I don't think I'll be trying it, but I was curious about Zevran's reactions.

Modifié par Carliw, 02 janvier 2010 - 12:16 .

[SusanStoHelit]

Zevran is physically unappealing to me (I'm female IRL). I don't care that that he's blonde or has long hair, but his fake tan is just yuk, and he's short and slender and looks like a girl. Not my type at all.



I don't care that he's bisexual. As for sleazy, he is, but his childhood and training have left their mark - and lots of sexual experience in and of itself is not a problem. And Zevran is intelligent, witty, honest, and all those things.



What is a problem is that he doesn't regret being a killer, a murderer, an assassin. Doing what you have no choice in to survive is one thing - not being remorseful or regretful is another. If your character is evil, no problem. Maybe even neutral, though still unlikely, I feel. But a 'good' character starting a relationship with someone with that attitude? No way!



Now, I acknowledge that if you romance him you find out much more about him and learn that, in fact, his lack of regret, his apparent callous attitude, and so on, are a mask he wears to fool himself as much as others. However, all of that requires metagame knowledge. If you don't know that he has those qualities before you start to romance him, why would you start a relationship? So, from a roleplaying perspective where only what your character knows matters, no 'good' character would choose to 'romance' him in the first place, because he's not a good candidate for a serious relationship. So I left Zevran strictly alone, at first.



However, my elven mage decided to have a fling with Zevran. She is 'good', but also has just escaped from the tower, the lore tells us mages are pretty casual about sex and generally don't marry and have children, and she just wanted to have good time. Besides, she can keep him under her thumb by means of sex. And he's an elf. And she's suspicious of Alistair because he's a templar. And Leliana is a religious freak and also chantry obsessed (not appealing to my mage). So - Zevran was casual fling material.



This led, by chance, and without metagaming, to the discovery of the 'other side' of Zevran, and is developing into a romance. I haven't gotten to the endgame with her yet, though. However, I don't feel that this would 'work' for all origin stories. For those who know what Zevran's attractions are all about and who are happy to metagame to get to them - fine. But I'm not. Each character makes choices based on their background, their personality and experiences, and what is known to them ingame.



So, my choice of a partner for romance is based not on what I (IRL) would choose, but on what the character would choose in those circumstances. Evil characters can romance (or use) anyone who is 'available'. Neutral or good characters are more limited, and choice will depend more on the factors I've already mentioned.

[ejoslin]

SusanStoHelit wrote...


Now, I acknowledge that if you romance him you find out much more about him and learn that, in fact, his lack of regret, his apparent callous attitude, and so on, are a mask he wears to fool himself as much as others. However, all of that requires metagame knowledge. If you don't know that he has those qualities before you start to romance him, why would you start a relationship? So, from a roleplaying perspective where only what your character knows matters, no 'good' character would choose to 'romance' him in the first place, because he's not a good candidate for a serious relationship. So I left Zevran strictly alone, at first.

(lots of snips)

I didn't metagame with my first romance with Zevran; I'm very glad I didn't.  Why someone would get involved?  Why not?  It's a video game and it's fun to play with various options.  As much as I love this game and love the characters, I guess I don't roleplay to that extent where the question of why is even an issue.

Edit: This came off as harsher than I meant.  If you want an in-game reason for romancing him, take him in your parties.  That was when I started really liking him, listening to the party dialog.  He definitely is a strong person, funny, and much smarter than anyone else you're travelling with.

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 janvier 2010 - 01:46 .

[ejoslin]

Carliw wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
 And yes, I agree that Zevran is not serious when hitting on the other party members.  I mean, he hits on everyone but Alistair and Sten.  

He does 'hit' on Alistair once, if we may call it so. It's when Alistair asks Zevran about the tattoes and then decides he wants one too. Zevran agrees to make it, but says that making a tattoo is a ritual that involves certain preparations. When Alistair learns that those preparations include a bath and a massage with scented oil from Zevran, he pretty much changes his mind.

Commentary: If Alistair knows the meaning of 'massage', so should every man in Ferelden.

ejoslin wrote...

But Zevran will only join in the threeway if you ask or order him to,
and doesn't seem nearly as enamored with Isabela and their past as she
is.  (...)

As far as the foursome, you have to have Leliana hardened and at love
and sleeping with her.  Zevran will make you choose as soon as he hits
adore no matter what.  It may be possible with Zev's affection at adore
IF you have Leliana hardened and you don't talk to him.  It's pretty
easy to get Leliana to fall in love after hardening her (I just did
so), and this play through I haven't visited Isabela so I'll try it.
 Worst that will happen is it won't work.

Aha, I see. Thank you!
I don't think I'll be trying it, but I was curious about Zevran's reactions.

Zevran enjoys it a lot more with Leliana involved, apparently.  *grin*

I missed the dialog about tattoos -- I don't take Alistair along often enough I guess.  That's really funny, though.