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What's the (Romantic) Appeal of Zevran?


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#12601
highcastle

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ejoslin wrote...

Another interesting part of that conversation (which I usually miss and wasn't transcribed)

Zevran: I suspect Alistair, however, would not feel the same way. If there is to be something between you and I, to string him along would only hurt him deeply. Surely you know this is true. (uncomfortable)
Warden:I suppose you're right.
Zevran: Then only one path lies before us, no? (said with a sigh of resignation)

One path? He was completely expecting to be dumped.

As far as him calling himself a cheat -- he acknowledges both he and Alistair have feelings for the warden, and expects the warden to choose Alistair. That would make him the one on the side. But again, this is not sexual jealousy -- it's not necessary that they have had sex.

Edit: In the "only one path" dialog, the facial expression is "sad."


Zevran's dialogue is equally sad when he thinks the PC is romancing Leliana. She ninja romanced my character in one play through, even though I thought we were just being friendly. Poor Zev totally expected to be dumped, it just broke my heart to see his sorrowful expression.

#12602
Creature 1

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ejoslin wrote...
Edit: Not that I've even managed to get the kiss in yet!  I get the warden in Zevran's spot, kissing the air!  grrrrrr!

Poor Warden, so pathetic!

#12603
Cuddlezarro

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Highcastle she only ninja romanced you in ONE playthrough? she ninja romances me even if im a complete jerk to her

#12604
ejoslin

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I have spent more time just trying to figure out the toolset and how to get around in there than playing the game. I can't find the error in the flag that I think has issues, either. And since that flag works everywhere BUT the city gates, it may be something in the dialog itself. I really do hope to get the whole thing repaired correctly.

#12605
Sannox

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ejoslin wrote...
He sure doesn't.  It also casts a lot of what he says there in a different light.  His making no claims on her, his saying it's all about the other person -- someone who is expecting to be dumped is permitted to walk away with some self respect. If it really were about Alistair, he wouldn't be willing to have sex with the warden even with Alistair at 100 love (as long as he's 70 care or below). If he really made no claims on her, he wouldn't force her to make a choice.  So why would he force the choice if he expected to be dumped?  The only thing that makes sense is he can't stand seeing her in a relationship with Alistair when he also cares deeply.  Which means, well, some level of jealousy.


I'm very influenced by the fact that this conversation happened very early into the relationship on in my first playthrough, so I initially interpreted it in that context.   It sounds quite different later in the relationship.

I think the difference with having sex when the other character is in love, but he is at lower approval, is that the other character doesn't seem to mind and won't force a choice.   There does seem to be a sort of moral sexual code amongst the companions that allows for that, I'm realising.    It's 'honest', so there's no reason for Zevran to stop it.    (And he doesn't mind if the positions are revesed either).  

He doesn't have much choice over being dumped.   The characters seem to know instinctively the point when a choice will be forced.   (And if they are not the one to force a choice, they also seem to know that the choice has been made and that they weren't chosen, although I haven't tested that with all of them yet).  If Zevran didn't force a choice, Alistair (or the other companion) would.   So even if he kept quiet, or said he was happy to share, it wouldn't make any difference.  I personally imagine that he speaks out because he feels he has to say it. 

(One thing I haven't tried is getting the other person's approval up and then getting it down again before having the conversation.   I suppose that if you did that - gave a gift while out somewhere then made a game move which the character disapproved of, a choice would never be forced, because no conversation would take place until the approval was below 71 again). 

Perhaps because the conversation happened so early the first time, I didn't get the impression that he was lying (about jealousy, or about feeling he had a claim on the warden).   At that point, he clearly didn't have a claim on my warden (although much later in the relationship, I would say that he does), so there was no reason for him to believe he did.  I think he is hiding what he feels, but I think he genuinely doesn't understand what he feels at that point.  From the way he says it, I think he's genuine about not wanting to do something underhand too.   I don't think he understands his own feelings much beyond knowing that something feels wrong about the situation.  If he means what he's saying, then it elevates the relationship a little - and he is admitting to caring and that it's more than sex (if it was just sex, nobody would have to make a choice).   That came as a bit of surprise so early on for me, and made my warden respect him all the more. 

(But then my wardens all seem to be full of respect for him.   I love just about all his responses, even the less pleasant ones.  He has a strong sense of morality and fairness, I think - part of the reason I believe him about not wanting to be a cheat - and I love the way he won't take any nonsense.)

I've tried playing out that conversation much later in the relationship, and it doesn't sound right.  By then (after the earring), things have changed and it doesn't make as much sense. 

(ETA: Apologies for this very long, obsessive post.   Must stop obessively replaying Zevran scenes in game). 

Modifié par Sannox, 28 mars 2010 - 07:07 .


#12606
frostajulie

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Its okay I for one always enjoy reading the long and obsessive posts about Zev, it is nice to know others share my affection for these pixels. I visit this thread daily to unwind and I am saving all my money to get a good PC so I can play DA:O with all these squee worthy Zev mods. My current coomputer is a very Basic Toshiba laptop with the X1250 graphics card, I can't play any games on it at all. So by all means keep posting obsessively long posts about my favorite character. I won't judge you

#12607
Charsen

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Ejoslin - let me take a look at it, i'll post in a few.

edit: ok, i have figured it out, the kiss is in***!

***But I need to do a few tweaks to make it work correctly, fix a lost sound file and realign them... lol my first go accidentally had zevran ****** off and the PC snogging air. but it's fixable, lol. but it's, in essence, in the game now.

also, i don't have your original dlg (the exported one is a compiled version and cannot be loaded in the toolset - you have to make a B2B to do that) but i can show you how to do it when i have it done & i will send you my B2B soon.

Modifié par Charsen, 28 mars 2010 - 07:21 .


#12608
Darkannex

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Thank you! It worked. Thank goodness, no new game for me (again!)

#12609
ejoslin

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Charsen! OMG! Thank you so much! I've been wrestling with this for the past couple of days! I always end up with the warden kissing the air. I have NOT been able to get Zevran into it.

#12610
ejoslin

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Charsen, I can put a B2B up if you'd like. It didn't even occur to me to do so. I should put one up on DANexus anyway, because this mod conflicts with quite a few others.

#12611
TheComfyCat

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Sannox wrote...

*snip*

He doesn't have much choice over being dumped.   The characters seem to know instinctively the point when a choice will be forced.   (And if they are not the one to force a choice, they also seem to know that the choice has been made and that they weren't chosen, although I haven't tested that with all of them yet).  If Zevran didn't force a choice, Alistair (or the other companion) would.   So even if he kept quiet, or said he was happy to share, it wouldn't make any difference.  I personally imagine that he speaks out because he feels he has to say it. 

(One thing I haven't tried is getting the other person's approval up and then getting it down again before having the conversation.   I suppose that if you did that - gave a gift while out somewhere then made a game move which the character disapproved of, a choice would never be forced, because no conversation would take place until the approval was below 71 again). 

Perhaps because the conversation happened so early the first time, I didn't get the impression that he was lying (about jealousy, or about feeling he had a claim on the warden).   At that point, he clearly didn't have a claim on my warden (although much later in the relationship, I would say that he does), so there was no reason for him to believe he did.  I think he is hiding what he feels, but I think he genuinely doesn't understand what he feels at that point.  From the way he says it, I think he's genuine about not wanting to do something underhand too.   I don't think he understands his own feelings much beyond knowing that something feels wrong about the situation.  If he means what he's saying, then it elevates the relationship a little - and he is admitting to caring and that it's more than sex (if it was just sex, nobody would have to make a choice).   That came as a bit of surprise so early on for me, and made my warden respect him all the more. 

(But then my wardens all seem to be full of respect for him.   I love just about all his responses, even the less pleasant ones.  He has a strong sense of morality and fairness, I think - part of the reason I believe him about not wanting to be a cheat - and I love the way he won't take any nonsense.)

I've tried playing out that conversation much later in the relationship, and it doesn't sound right.  By then (after the earring), things have changed and it doesn't make as much sense. 

(ETA: Apologies for this very long, obsessive post.   Must stop obessively replaying Zevran scenes in game). 


Well, I'm guessing that the dialogue that will force a choice was meant for at least half way into the game... so it might not feel as natural if you have it earlier. I think the intention (Gaider's intention) was to have Zevran try to act like he didn't care, though, and pretend he was more worried about the other person, expect to be dumped, etc.

And I don't think someone has to be certain of their feelings, or even be in love, to feel jealousy. But I agree that he's a bit uncertain at this point as to his own intentions... though clearly he knows that he cares quite a bit for the Warden. Too much to share them, anyway :lol:

On another note, I also wonder how much he's changed since meeting the Warden. After the Taliesen encounter, when he thanks you for freeing him from the Crows, it can lead to the line "If someone had said to me just a year ago, "Zevran, my lad, you're going to fail against your most important mark and it will be the smartest thing you've ever done," I would have slit his throat." Seems pretty ruthless... I wonder how jaded he was back then.

#12612
Creature 1

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Charsen wrote...
edit: ok, i have figured it out, the kiss is in***!

***But I need to do a few tweaks to make it work correctly, fix a lost sound file and realign them... lol my first go accidentally had zevran ****** off and the PC snogging air. but it's fixable, lol. but it's, in essence, in the game now.

Fix it and you can be my god for a day! 

#12613
Charsen

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 Ok Ejoslin I have gotten a little closer -- i see exactly what is giving you grief. I'm going to see if there is a way to fix this without doing my hacked version (which involves redoing the sound file for that "I know that" line). I'm going to post in the toolset forum to get some confirmation before i proceed though.

lol, Creature -- i must protest any impending apotheosis, once Ej and i get this thing working, be SURE that we will abuse it... 
:devil::devil:

Modifié par Charsen, 28 mars 2010 - 07:45 .


#12614
ejoslin

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Charsen, I'm going to post a B2B if you care to use it. I'm sure you found the work around that I used already, but just in case!

Edit: *grin* I'm still wrestling with the kiss as well.  It really is a bear, the way this is set up.  But you probably are FAR closer than I am to solving it. (you have a hack to fall back on, I'm too clueless to make one!)  But YAY!

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 mars 2010 - 07:52 .


#12615
highcastle

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Cuddlezarro wrote...

Highcastle she only ninja romanced you in ONE playthrough? she ninja romances me even if im a complete jerk to her


To be honest, I usually just skip doing her personal quest for this reason now. That one playthrough, I kept turning her down, but she wouldn't take no for an answer. Very, very annoying. Even now I'm leery of her. I get the feeling she's watching my character sleep, plotting Zevran's demise so she can step into his place...

#12616
Charsen

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sounds great ej!

i am hoping i can get a response from someone so i don't have to use my hacked version. i'd rather figure out why he's walking away so i don't have to hack such things every time. that forum is somewhat dead so it could take some time to get a response =/

#12617
Sannox

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@ Senorfuzzylips, I agree that people can feel jealousy with very little provocation - even without any relationship at all. I just found it endearing that he didn't seem to. (It's interesting - Morrigan admits to jealousy, but feels bad about feeling jealousy, as if she doesn't have a right to the emotion.) Because it was so early on, it was shortly after the post-tent conversation where they'd both happily agreed to just have fun, and in the context, taking Zevran at his word made sense. I was obviously pacing it wrong though. His approval just rises so fast compared to the others. But even so early on, I still get the impression that he is feeling more than he is letting on.



Yes, I think he has changed a lot. He also talks about being cocky and arrogant (and there is something else he says about the past which came into my mind and went out again, that made me think he was different before the Rinna incident). Then there's when he tells Taliesin that Taliesin doesn't know him any more. Actually, I think he says 'neither do you', implying that neither you nor Taliesin really know him. That could be just because he hasn't admitted what he feels for you. But also I think the warden doesn't really know the old Zevran. Yet another reason to go to Antiva and see him on his home turf :).

#12618
Cuddlezarro

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highcastle wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Highcastle she only ninja romanced you in ONE playthrough? she ninja romances me even if im a complete jerk to her


To be honest, I usually just skip doing her personal quest for this reason now. That one playthrough, I kept turning her down, but she wouldn't take no for an answer. Very, very annoying. Even now I'm leery of her. I get the feeling she's watching my character sleep, plotting Zevran's demise so she can step into his place...


Xander got ninja romanced by her 5 times and I even turned it off once using the toolset

I was not happy I decided to defile the sacred ashes without her in the party because dear lord that would have saved me some trouble

as for leliena plotting to kill zevran and watches you sleep...well she is princess stabbity

#12619
Sannox

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Anyway. Thighs.



Image IPB

#12620
Cuddlezarro

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hmmm thighs...



any ways I got a new mage (Baren is on hold till Charsen releases his projects for me to test with him) so ill be getting new squeeshots rather soon~

#12621
Addai

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Zevran thighs! Whoo!!! I might have to re-think my aversion to the game's Spartacus armors. :D

#12622
ejoslin

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Charsen wrote...

sounds great ej!
i am hoping i can get a response from someone so i don't have to use my hacked version. i'd rather figure out why he's walking away so i don't have to hack such things every time. that forum is somewhat dead so it could take some time to get a response =/


Gah!  I hope someone answers quickly (I had to do one last [unsuccessful] brute force kick before starting my B2B export.  I'll be posting it shortly).

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 mars 2010 - 08:04 .


#12623
Cuddlezarro

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Addai67 wrote...

Zevran thighs! Whoo!!! I might have to re-think my aversion to the game's Spartacus armors. :D


yes you should! Zev and Nathaniels bare thighs are teh sexy

#12624
Addai

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highcastle wrote...

To be honest, I usually just skip doing her personal quest for this reason now. That one playthrough, I kept turning her down, but she wouldn't take no for an answer. Very, very annoying. Even now I'm leery of her. I get the feeling she's watching my character sleep, plotting Zevran's demise so she can step into his place...

Me too- I skip Marjolaine entirely or else just never do the follow-up conversations because that seems to be where the ninja happens for me.  She does creep me out.  On my Aedan character, I decided to try to flirt with her, though, because I'm curious about the Morri-Leli rivalry.  My husband says there are some funny lines there.

Of course, our PC is toast at the moment so no experimenting for me.  And no Antivan boots, either.  :(

#12625
TripLight

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Charsen wrote...

Triplight - This might help with the avatar images if you have any errors in your diagnostics. otherwise, remove your chest piece, close inventory, open inventory and add chest piece, then make a fresh save. it only updates on a fresh save and only a few times a day. if you check your "what's new" page and see other people upload avatars, that's often a push time.

Ramante - maybe, i haven't had that encounter yet so i will have to check it out. =) it is just as easy to set it up to trigger for an origin as it is anything else though.


Thank you Charsen! Took a half an hour because I had to re-delete from the site several times, and my game kept disconnecting from the game servers, but I had 4 characters upload to the site, hopefully the rest will too.