35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Cuddlezarro]

ok im at the Dalish camp now and im disappointed Zevran doesnt comment on me sleeping with camens would be girlfriend



you would think he would have something to say like he does with the female version of that quest (and I gained approval with Wynn for doing it WTF!? she gets preachy to me about Zevran but I get approval for having a one night stand with a virgin elven girl whos probably no older than 15)

[Sialater]

ejoslin wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

He's by far my most favorite character in the game....and not just as a romance option.
(please let him be in expansion/DLC)

Agreed.  Though he is an extremely compelling romance option.  But if I ever play another game where he isn't one, he'll still be in my party always.  I can't help but compare him to the elves in Ostegar who are not slaves, but are so cowed.

One of my favorite things to do is to take him to the Alienage, look at that sign (All elves caught with swords will die up on them), look at him, then burst out laughing.  It's even funnier when I'm playing an elf, too.

[Jaulen]

Once I get Zev in the party, he's always there.



I find he usually does a lot less dying in combat that Alistair/Sten or Oghren (but that's probably me having issues with tacticts and how to spec a warrior class)



And I haven't done a Zev-only romance yet (that's going to be my next character).

(Done Alistair only (totally by accident first playthrough....dind't realize there was a romance option at all (PS3)...and suddenly I was like, 'What the heck is going ON?'), Zev and Alistair (didn't dump either), and now with a male PC I'm romancing Leliana)



I did try some of the dump Alistair/dump Zev lines and kept reloading....but that was more for my own interest than RPing.

[Jayelet]

Jaulen wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

He's an elf, and they all have the same body. Is he bisexual because he's an elf? Not at all -- the choice to make him an elf came from his background... in some ways he's a victim of his circumstances, which are pretty bad for all elves, and instead of whining about it he's rolled with the punches. He's amoral, but I'm not sure that assassin-with-a-heart-of-gold would somehow be better in terms of breaking stereotypes. His sexuality is part of what he is, but it doesn't define him -- should it? A lot of what he is comes from him being an assassin. If we made every decision regarding his character about his sexuality alone, wouldn't that define the very essence of a stereotype?

This and some other comments made above.....

Like how he jokes/relates to the other characters. Especially Wynne....she's such a nosy know-it-all, that how could he NOT want to tweak her nose by joking with her in a manner he knows would tick her off the most (I know I would and have IRL with people like her). Heck, every time I get the chance to, my PCs bug Wynne about the griffons......

He was sold and tortured...damaged goods...to me he's by far the character that pulls most of my sympathetic heart strings....how could you not want to just HUG him? 

Yeah, Alistair was a bastard and spent a lot of time sleeping in the stables, and was then sent to the chantry (a stray thought: wonder if this has anything to do with his background of mother being a mage?), but at least Alistair HAD people that cared about him and looked out for him, although in his spoiled childish rage he figured they didn't (so in character for Alistair to throw the amulet against the wall). I just can't feel a level of sympathy for Alistairs character I can for Zevran's.

But, Zevran really had nobody.....he was by himself, with the possiblility of a rather horrid death at every turn....even with his crow companions, he still ha dto watch his back. How would situations like that not cause someone to be somewhat of a false braggart, and a 'do whatever it takes to survive' type?

He's by far my most favorite character in the game....and not just as a romance option.
(please let him be in expansion/DLC)

100% agree with everything you said. It is also my favorite character. I am indifferent to what each one wants to think. He has my full support and not just as a romance.
Of course we must congratulate the writer capable of creating a character so complex.

[Jaulen]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ok im at the Dalish camp now and im disappointed Zevran doesnt comment on me sleeping with camens would be girlfriend

you would think he would have something to say like he does with the female version of that quest (and I gained approval with Wynn for doing it WTF!? she gets preachy to me about Zevran but I get approval for having a one night stand with a virgin elven girl whos probably no older than 15)

Yeah, there are some werid approval ups/downs.
Like kissing that girl in Redcliffe as a 'thank you' for finding her brother I got a -7 from Alistair (poor jealous virgin you!), but when my PC stabbed Genetivi in the back of the head I got a -3.

And there are times I wish the companions would comment on some of the actions you take.

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

Once I get Zev in the party, he's always there.

I find he usually does a lot less dying in combat that Alistair/Sten or Oghren (but that's probably me having issues with tacticts and how to spec a warrior class)

And I haven't done a Zev-only romance yet (that's going to be my next character).
(Done Alistair only (totally by accident first playthrough....dind't realize there was a romance option at all (PS3)...and suddenly I was like, 'What the heck is going ON?'), Zev and Alistair (didn't dump either), and now with a male PC I'm romancing Leliana)

I did try some of the dump Alistair/dump Zev lines and kept reloading....but that was more for my own interest than RPing.

Have you completed the Zevran romance?

And yes, Zevran is very good at NOT dying.  And he does insane damage -- the only time I am doing more than he is is when I play a melee rogue as well.  Though my mages are never spec'ed for anything but control, so that may be part of the reason why.

The dumping of Zevran . . . awful before he falls in love, beyond horrible after he does.  I don't know which is the worst -- when he calls you his love just before leaving, when he calls himself a fool for daring to hope . ..  oh geez.  When it's a choice between him and Alistair, I can choose destroying someone, or making someone feel sad but relieved.

[Jaulen]

No, I haven't completed the Zevran romance. I kept him and Alisatir at 100% love through the game where I planned that my PC was going to do the sacrifice ending. So I haven't seen all the nuances and conversations that are mentioned.

I tried kicking Zev out of camp as the male PC, but then had to reload, he just looked so sad and let down. I figured my goody-two-shoes male PC couldn't handle making someone sad.

And I agree, Alistair when you dump him seems a little sad but relieved that he's not going to have to make that hard choice himself later, Zevran just seems...destroyed is such a good word for it.

***and I LOVE that the writer is on the boards, really, how totally cool is that?*****

Modifié par Jaulen, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:47 .

[Cuddlezarro]

also I finally got him to talk about his mission before coming to ferelden and the way he talks and the expression on his face if you pick the "death happens" line is just so heart breaking



why is it I have absolutely no problem with being mean to certain characters yet feel bad if I make Zevran(or the dog) sad...

[Bratt1204]

I tried the Zev romance but just cannot get past the accent, sounds too fake to me. The sleaze factor is what I wanted test drive ( polar opposite of Alistair's alter-boyish personality) but it just did nothing for me. Zev's looks are not that appealing to me either, he looks too weasel-like for me.

[ejoslin]

Jaulen wrote...

No, I haven't completed the Zevran romance. I kept him and Alisatir at 100% love through the game where I planned that my PC was going to do the sacrifice ending. So I haven't seen all the nuances and conversations that are mentioned.

I tried kicking Zev out of camp as the male PC, but then had to reload, he just looked so sad and let down. I figured my goody-two-shoes male PC couldn't handle making someone sad.

And I agree, Alistair when you dump him seems a little sad but relieved that he's not going to have to make that hard choice himself later, Zevran just seems...destroyed is such a good word for it.

Oh, if you like Zevran this much without completing the romance . . . His last few dialogs . . . it's just amazing when he finally says what he feels.

[Jaulen]

Yeah, I started a new female PC (but then accidentially deleted her when I moved files), playing her a little more hardnosed....and when the time came to recruit Zevran and Alistair complains I said the line about "recruiting misfits and you're here aren't you?" I laughed at "Oh, ow!" and the approval hit.



Suprized Morrigan didn't approve of me saying that!

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...


Oh, if you like Zevran this much without completing the romance . . . His last few dialogs . . . it's just amazing when he finally says what he feels.

indeed expecially if you turned down the earring

[ejoslin]

Bratt1204 wrote...

I tried the Zev romance but just cannot get past the accent, sounds too fake to me. The sleaze factor is what I wanted test drive ( polar opposite of Alistair's alter-boyish personality) but it just did nothing for me. Zev's looks are not that appealing to me either, he looks too weasel-like for me.

Your loss.  I love his accent, though.  And I like the way he looks (though I do mod him now and again since it's fun to have the characters look different after many play throughs). And everything about the romance with him is the polar opposite of Alistair's, really, which should say some things about the way it ends.  His loyalty, if nothing else, is heart warming.

Out of curiosity, how far did you make it into the romance?  He changes considerably.

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ejoslin wrote...


Oh, if you like Zevran this much without completing the romance . . . His last few dialogs . . . it's just amazing when he finally says what he feels.

indeed expecially if you turned down the earring

yep.  Definitely turn down gifts if they don't mean anything!  heh, I actually did do that my first play through when doing the Zevran romance as a rebound from Alistair.  No WAY was I accepting that earring when he told me it was payment though it was obvious it meant more.  I was so blown away by the way that ended up . . . And then when I tried to leave him at the gates . . . I had sworn that I would not reload that game as it was my first and I wanted to stick with all my decisions.  But I did my first and only reload at that point even though his gear was crap since I never took him anywhere.  In subsequent play throughs I took him everywhere and was surprised and very happy at how much he had to say everywhere.  It did take me by surprise because none of the other companions offer their opinions like he does.  

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...

The dumping of Zevran . . . awful before he falls in love, beyond horrible after he does.  I don't know which is the worst -- when he calls you his love just before leaving, when he calls himself a fool for daring to hope . ..  oh geez.  When it's a choice between him and Alistair, I can choose destroying someone, or making someone feel sad but relieved.

My HNF is going to have to do it and I'm not looking forward to it.    I am not sure how she turned the romance with Zevran on, but she did.

Last night she took him with her to Master Ignacio and on the first couple Crow missions.  That's the first time I've done these and it was very interesting and definitely moved her trust-meter.  She still has a little corner of her mind where she wonders if Zevran is setting her up and is just really, really good at it.  She is contemplating sleeping with him- her conscious excuse will be because she wants to give him the best opportunity he'll have to stick a knife in her back, so they can get it over with if that is what he is going to do.  Her unconsious reason is that she finds him terribly attractive and intriguing and guesses that he's going to blow her mind, which she wouldn't mind experiencing just once!  Her problem is that she is starting to love Alistair, too.  I don't think she'll really fall in love with him until the Landsmeet (with hardened Alistair, that's where she'll finally see him at his best), but already she feels guilty for her interest in Zevran.

Sometimes I wish I didn't like both characters so much!   Grr!!!  P.S. This thread is like group therapy.  LOL

Modifié par Addai67, 28 janvier 2010 - 06:56 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Zevrans accent to me was rather off putting I quite literally said WTF when I first heard it in game it was not what I expected the "gay flamboyant elven pretty boy" to sound like at all...



now Im just so used to it it doesnt bother me at all plus the thought of him being nothing but a "gay flamboyant elven pretty boy" went flying out the window when I digged deeper into his character when my bastard of a dwarf noble romanced him (and the only reason i bothered romancing him the first time was because I find the idea of a dwarf having gay sex with an elf of all things to be rather funny in a twisted way...but to my surprise I ended up loving Zevran)

[Sabriana]

My beloved Amazon had Alistair in 100 Love, and did him the favor of 'deflowering' him. Then along came Zevran, and she realized the difference between infatuation and true feelings.



She tried to keep Zevran down a bit, but you all know, this guy falls hard and fast, so he hit the high range before she knew it. (Lords, I still love that little 'love' thing on his line, and we've only completed the tower. What a nice little glitch.)



Anyway, Zevran calls her on the carpet, and she had to tell Alistair that it was over between them. I checked and Alistair was now at 100 friendly. No hits so far. Then she talks to him, and lo and behold, not only does he look a bit relieved, he was still at 100 friendly afterward. No approval hits at all. Zero.



Zevran being dumped/dumping the PC, on the other hand, almost makes me want to cry and makes me feel mean and dirty.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

My beloved Amazon had Alistair in 100 Love, and did him the favor of 'deflowering' him. Then along came Zevran, and she realized the difference between infatuation and true feelings.

She tried to keep Zevran down a bit, but you all know, this guy falls hard and fast, so he hit the high range before she knew it. (Lords, I still love that little 'love' thing on his line, and we've only completed the tower. What a nice little glitch.)

Anyway, Zevran calls her on the carpet, and she had to tell Alistair that it was over between them. I checked and Alistair was now at 100 friendly. No hits so far. Then she talks to him, and lo and behold, not only does he look a bit relieved, he was still at 100 friendly afterward. No approval hits at all. Zero.

Zevran being dumped/dumping the PC, on the other hand, almost makes me want to cry and makes me feel mean and dirty.

Oh, when you're forced to choose, what a difference between when you pick Zevran and when you pick Alistair.  If you pick Zevran when talking to him, he sees you're hurt, and tries to cheer you up, but you also have the option of telling him you don't feel like talking and he's still very sweet about it.  With Alistair, he kisses you but there's no acknowledgement that this may be difficult for you.  

Every time I try to romance Alistair I end up failing and choosing Zevran.  I just get the feeling that he appreciates the warden so much more.

[Addai]

My problem with this character is that she's either going to be queen or sacrifice herself with Alistair as king- I just cannot put Anora on the throne for the life of me. Either way, I do not want her to be in love with Zevran. She couldn't cheat on Alistair since she does love him, and player selfishness will not let me sacrifice her knowing what happens to Zevran if she does. Oh, the corners I paint myself into.

[errant_knight]

Jaulen wrote...

He [Zevran] was sold and tortured...damaged goods...to me he's by far the character that pulls most of my sympathetic heart strings....how could you not want to just HUG him? 

Yeah, Alistair was a bastard and spent a lot of time sleeping in the stables, and was then sent to the chantry (a stray thought: wonder if this has anything to do with his background of mother being a mage?), but at least Alistair HAD people that cared about him and looked out for him, although in his spoiled childish rage he figured they didn't (so in character for Alistair to throw the amulet against the wall). I just can't feel a level of sympathy for Alistairs character I can for Zevran's.
 

Not to take away from your analysis of Zevran because, while he's not a character my PC would romance, I am sympathetic, but do you really find it spoiled for a child to be utterly heartbroken and angry about being sent away from the only home they have ever known because their 'father's' new bride dislikes them? Imagining how I would have felt had I been that child makes me surprised by Alistair's capacity for forgiveness, not his reaction. The sense of rejection would be devastating.

This comparison reminds me a bit or the 'Alistair shouldn't be so sad about Duncan because the PC lost a whole family' argument. Grief and loss aren't numerical with numbers increasing the effect, nor does one person's crappy childhood negate another's because it was slightly less crappy.

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

My problem with this character is that she's either going to be queen or sacrifice herself with Alistair as king- I just cannot put Anora on the throne for the life of me. Either way, I do not want her to be in love with Zevran. She couldn't cheat on Alistair since she does love him, and player selfishness will not let me sacrifice her knowing what happens to Zevran if she does. Oh, the corners I paint myself into.

As you know, you don't have to have Alistair in love to marry him, and if you ever did have him in love, you make him just as happy by marrying him, even at friendly.  He still is completely in love with his bride.  Alistair . ..  he's pretty easy to make happy if you're a HNF!

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 janvier 2010 - 07:23 .

[Sialater]

errant_knight wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

He [Zevran] was sold and tortured...damaged goods...to me he's by far the character that pulls most of my sympathetic heart strings....how could you not want to just HUG him? 

Yeah, Alistair was a bastard and spent a lot of time sleeping in the stables, and was then sent to the chantry (a stray thought: wonder if this has anything to do with his background of mother being a mage?), but at least Alistair HAD people that cared about him and looked out for him, although in his spoiled childish rage he figured they didn't (so in character for Alistair to throw the amulet against the wall). I just can't feel a level of sympathy for Alistairs character I can for Zevran's.
 

Not to take away from your analysis of Zevran because, while he's not a character my PC would romance, I am sympathetic, but do you really find it spoiled for a child to be utterly heartbroken and angry about being sent away from the only home they have ever known because their 'father's' new bride dislikes them? Imagining how I would have felt had I been that child makes me surprised by Alistair's capacity for forgiveness, not his reaction. The sense of rejection would be devastating.

This comparison reminds me a bit or the 'Alistair shouldn't be so sad about Duncan because the PC lost a whole family' argument. Grief and loss aren't numerical with numbers increasing the effect, nor does one person's crappy childhood negate another's because it was slightly less crappy.

Both Zevran and Alistair had childhoods I wouldn't wish on Loghain or Howe.  The PCs, until the events that lead to her being recruited, are idyllic by comparison.

[Namirsolo]

With Alistair, he kisses you but there's no acknowledgement that this may be difficult for you. 

I really got the impression that Alistair is more than a little bit  self-centered.

And yes, I would say that if we're comparing Alistair to Zevran than Alistair was spoiled as a child. He basically had a father until he was at least 10, and then that father sent him away (out of love) and Alistair cannot recognize that Arl Eamon did what he did because he cared about him. I guess you could take the more cynical road and say that Eamon only protected Alistair so that he could put his adopted son on the throne and control him. But, I prefer to blieve that he sent Alistair to the chantry to get him away from the bitter atmosphere that Isolde was creating.

[ejoslin]

errant_knight wrote...

Jaulen wrote...

He [Zevran] was sold and tortured...damaged goods...to me he's by far the character that pulls most of my sympathetic heart strings....how could you not want to just HUG him? 

Yeah, Alistair was a bastard and spent a lot of time sleeping in the stables, and was then sent to the chantry (a stray thought: wonder if this has anything to do with his background of mother being a mage?), but at least Alistair HAD people that cared about him and looked out for him, although in his spoiled childish rage he figured they didn't (so in character for Alistair to throw the amulet against the wall). I just can't feel a level of sympathy for Alistairs character I can for Zevran's.
 

Not to take away from your analysis of Zevran because, while he's not a character my PC would romance, I am sympathetic, but do you really find it spoiled for a child to be utterly heartbroken and angry about being sent away from the only home they have ever known because their 'father's' new bride dislikes them? Imagining how I would have felt had I been that child makes me surprised by Alistair's capacity for forgiveness, not his reaction. The sense of rejection would be devastating.

This comparison reminds me a bit or the 'Alistair shouldn't be so sad about Duncan because the PC lost a whole family' argument. Grief and loss aren't numerical with numbers increasing the effect, nor does one person's crappy childhood negate another's because it was slightly less crappy.

I think Alistair had it far better than most children in Ferelden.  For non-humans and for the very poor, it's an extremely harsh world.  Did Alistair feel pain? Oh yes.  Did it mark him? Of course it did.  Is he still a decent person? More decent for his own good, in fact.  But Alistair has a bit of a habit of not really appreciating what he does have, I think, and instead pining for what he doesn't.  But that is also understandable.

And that's a basic difference between Alistair and Zevran.  Zevran takes whatever situation he is in and finds the positive and lives it the best way he possibly can.  Alistair does not.  That's not a judgement, though.  Most people do not take life as it comes and find the best of it anyway as Zevran does -- that is most likely why he not only was able to survive his life, but end up as strong and unbowed as he does.

[ejoslin]

Sialater wrote...

Both Zevran and Alistair had childhoods I wouldn't wish on Loghain or Howe.  The PCs, until the events that lead to her being recruited, are idyllic by comparison.

That seriously depends on the origin.  Both city elf and dwarf commoner have horrible lives.

Edit: And mage is comparable to Alistair's.

Modifié par ejoslin, 28 janvier 2010 - 07:32 .