35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonvita]

sami jo wrote...

The fact that Zev has had male lovers was one of the few things that did not fly over his head.  I was sitting with him when he had the conversation with Zev about his past.  He doesn't have an issue with being hit on by another guy irl, so I really doubt it would bother him in a game. 

And yes...the tattoos definitely lead the eyes *elsewhere*. 

Hehe, well, if he tries a male character next time, let us know if he ends up staying with Zev. From what I can tell, he totally got everything important in the game. I feel like he got it more than I did first time I played. (I have an excuse! I was on a three week vacation in Japan, so my brain was so scattered the whole time...)

[Sannox]

I agree with your son about hardening Alistair, Sami Jo. It doesn't ring true to me that he would change that much, especially as he sees everything else that goes on (if you take him with you). I mean, there are cases you come across in your adventures where people aren't just out for themselves, and where the warden doesn't have to act as if they are. Alistair also seems to strongly believe that Duncan was a hero who wasn't out for himself. Changing his view of humanity would change his view of Duncan too - but it doesn't.

[ejoslin]

Sleep is for the weak...



Damn, insomnia. I hate it!

[Sannox]

I think Zevran does need the warden, though, at least as much as the other characters do. He works through his issues on his own, without help (which is one of the things I love about him) - I do agree with that. But he's able to do that because of the warden. He doesn't need you to do anything for him but he does need your presence, I think. If it wasn't for the warden he'd be dead or damaged in some way.

[Nonvita]

I'm not quite sure why no one (to my knowledge) has gone ahead and changed that conversation. There are simple lines you do that would make sense easily, and make it feel much more natural.
Something like:
"You shouldn't always rely on others for happiness. You're perfect as you are, and you should be proud of yourself."

There, fixed (for a romance). It makes more sense, too.

Edit: Sannox, agreed completely about Zevran!

And ejoslin, I'm sorry. =( Listen to soothing music? Didn't Charsen post some ridiculous whale sounds or waterfalls or something a while back?

Modifié par Nonvita, 03 avril 2010 - 07:07 .

[sami jo]

Well, he has watched me play off and on (and listened to me yammer), so he probably had a good deal more information going into this playthrough than I did for my first. I played through all of the origins in one sitting with him (during snowmageddon when we couldn't get out of our house). He's pretty soured on Morrigan at the moment and he couldn't stand Lelianna, so if he does another playthrough with a romance I'd guess he would romance Zev again. That is all assuming that he will give up his shooters long enough to do another run and assuming he would romance anyone in another run. He doesn't normally have much time to game. I don't let him feed his inner vampire and stay up all night gaming the way I do.

[TheComfyCat]

People on the Alistair threads complain about the weirdness of the "hardening" conversation a lot (e.g. wtf how does he get "stand up for yourself" from "people are out for themselves"). Apparently (said Gaider at some point) there was supposed to be more dialogue, but it was ultimately cut.... And what we're left with is definitely awkward.

[Sannox]

Nonvita wrote...


And ejoslin, I'm sorry. =( Listen to soothing music? Didn't Charsen post some ridiculous whale sounds or waterfalls or something a while back?

(found it in my history)

Modifié par Sannox, 03 avril 2010 - 07:23 .

[Kryyptehk]

Nonvita wrote...

I'm not quite sure why no one (to my knowledge) has gone ahead and changed that conversation. There are simple lines you do that would make sense easily, and make it feel much more natural.
Something like:
"You shouldn't always rely on others for happiness. You're perfect as you are, and you should be proud of yourself."

There, fixed (for a romance). It makes more sense, too.

This. Why can't it be fixed? People add new dialogue all the time, can't someone just change that one line? Not even changing anything he says, just what you say. If I knew anything about modding, I would. I might just learn enough to do that one line lol

[Sannox]

senorfuzzylips wrote...

People on the Alistair threads complain about the weirdness of the "hardening" conversation a lot (e.g. wtf how does he get "stand up for yourself" from "people are out for themselves"). Apparently (said Gaider at some point) there was supposed to be more dialogue, but it was ultimately cut.... And what we're left with is definitely awkward.

That maybe helps explain things then, if some of the dialogue was missing.    

It also didn't quite make sense to me that a non-hardened Alistair insists on executing Loghain, and will leave if it won't happen, whereas a hardened Alistair will stay and be king (I think).    Maybe it's just meant to be that hardened Alistair is disillusioned earlier, whereas it only happens for non-hardened Alistair at the point where he's not allowed to kill Loghain.   But you might think that a non-hardened Alistair could be talked round, or that he might want to stay for the good of the country and to honor Duncan and Cailan.

Must stop thinking of rude things when I type 'hardened'.

[Nonvita]

Sannox wrote...

It also didn't quite make sense to me that a non-hardened Alistair insists on executing Loghain, and will leave if it won't happen, whereas a hardened Alistair will stay and be king (I think).    Maybe it's just meant to be that hardened Alistair is disillusioned earlier, whereas it only happens for non-hardened Alistair at the point where he's not allowed to kill Loghain.   But you might think that a non-hardened Alistair could be talked round, or that he might want to stay for the good of the country and to honor Duncan and Cailan.

Must stop thinking of rude things when I type 'hardened'.

Hardened Alistair will leave if Loghain is spared as well. He's just stubborn that way.

And you have no idea about thinking bad things. My bf has his friends over and they're watching "One-Eyed Monster." I feel gross even mentioning it in here.

[sami jo]

Sannox wrote...

I think Zevran does need the warden, though, at least as much as the other characters do. He works through his issues on his own, without help (which is one of the things I love about him) - I do agree with that. But he's able to do that because of the warden. He doesn't need you to do anything for him but he does need your presence, I think. If it wasn't for the warden he'd be dead or damaged in some way.

Allistair and Lelianna seem to need the PC to define who they are for them.  Allistair can't/won't make a decision on his own and Lel will turn herself into a pretzel to be what you want her to be.  Zev needs the PC to care about him and truly value him, but he doesn't need the PC to tell him what his world view should be.  He doesn't seem to expect his opinions to matter, but he speaks up more than any of your other companions about the decisions you are making (or will if you are being evil anyway).  It has always seemed as if he is offering his opinion on how you should act while the others (generally) are offering their opinions on how you *did* act.  Of the romanceable companions, Morrigan and Zev both know who they are.  They learn to open up, trust, be valued and love, but they both have an inner strength and sense of self that isn't defined by others and doesn't require the PC at all.  They are both strong, determined, capable, survivors.  Lel and Ali need/want someone to lead them.  My PC's always value the fact that they can lean on Zev, even the ones who never romance him. 

I don't think my son has seen the US epilogues, so I kind of doubt he was (over) analyzing it the way I have.  I think he was just reacting to the hardening thing, the clinginess of Lel, and Ali's inability to make a decision.

[ejoslin]

Yeh, Alistair will always leave the grey wardens if you spare Loghain. However, he may marry Anora if hardened; then he sits upstairs and sulks instead.

Heh, one eyed monster. I don't even want to know.

Edit: Wow, what sami jo said.  I couldn't have said it better.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 avril 2010 - 07:36 .

[sami jo]

Nonvita wrote...

Sannox wrote...

It also didn't quite make sense to me that a non-hardened Alistair insists on executing Loghain, and will leave if it won't happen, whereas a hardened Alistair will stay and be king (I think).    Maybe it's just meant to be that hardened Alistair is disillusioned earlier, whereas it only happens for non-hardened Alistair at the point where he's not allowed to kill Loghain.   But you might think that a non-hardened Alistair could be talked round, or that he might want to stay for the good of the country and to honor Duncan and Cailan.

Must stop thinking of rude things when I type 'hardened'.

Hardened Alistair will leave if Loghain is spared as well. He's just stubborn that way.

And you have no idea about thinking bad things. My bf has his friends over and they're watching "One-Eyed Monster." I feel gross even mentioning it in here.

You can get a hardened Allistair to marry Anora if you spare Loghain (which is not possible with an unhardened Allistair).  He will not stay in your party, but he doesn't become a wandering drunk.

Edit: Ninja'd

Modifié par sami jo, 03 avril 2010 - 07:36 .

[sami jo]

@Ejoslin: welcome to the insomniac club.



I'm getting too old to live on 3 hours of sleep a night.

[Cuddlezarro]

you people talk about insomnia and here me and charsen are at 3.40 in the morning watching Dr Who and 24 respectively lol and my job starts tommorow >_< then again my boss is kickass and happens to be friends with my parents

[Nonvita]

sami jo wrote...

Long, lovely post.

Absolutely, although I think Zevran needs the Warden just as much, but in a different way. Alistair and Leliana need the Warden to tell them who to be, and Zevran definitely doesn't. But without the Warden, let's face it, he'd be dead. He wouldn't have anything worth living for, and that's what makes the relationship special. Whether as a friend or lover, you're giving him a reason to live, and to live as the person he is. You're not changing him so much as freeing him.

ejoslin wrote...

Heh, one eyed monster. I don't even want to know.

Dear lord you don't. If I type anything weird, it's because I'm desperately trying to get drunk so this movie isn't so absolutely horrifying.

Cuddlezarro wrote...

you people talk about insomnia and
here me and charsen are at 3.40 in the morning watching Dr Who and 24
respectively lol and my job starts tommorow >_< then again my boss
is kickass and happens to be friends with my parents

Your job starts on Saturday? 

Modifié par Nonvita, 03 avril 2010 - 07:42 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Your job starts on Saturday?

I work at a camp ground during the summers

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

you people talk about insomnia and here me and charsen are at 3.40 in the morning watching Dr Who and 24 respectively lol and my job starts tommorow >_< then again my boss is kickass and happens to be friends with my parents

I hope you're not working the day shift   Good luck on your new job! 

[ejoslin]

sami jo wrote...

@Ejoslin: welcome to the insomniac club.

I'm getting too old to live on 3 hours of sleep a night.

I've been too old for a few years.  Gah, I'm so glad tomorrow is Saturday.

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

you people talk about insomnia and here me and charsen are at 3.40 in the morning watching Dr Who and 24 respectively lol and my job starts tommorow >_< then again my boss is kickass and happens to be friends with my parents

I hope you're not working the day shift   Good luck on your new job! 

my boss is made of win and is pretty liberal with my shifts

[Sannox]

double post, sorry.  I think I quoted instead of editted. 

Modifié par Sannox, 03 avril 2010 - 07:51 .

[Sannox]

Sannox wrote...

Nonvita wrote...

Sannox wrote...

It also didn't quite make sense to me that a non-hardened Alistair insists on executing Loghain, and will leave if it won't happen, whereas a hardened Alistair will stay and be king (I think).    Maybe it's just meant to be that hardened Alistair is disillusioned earlier, whereas it only happens for non-hardened Alistair at the point where he's not allowed to kill Loghain.   But you might think that a non-hardened Alistair could be talked round, or that he might want to stay for the good of the country and to honor Duncan and Cailan.

Must stop thinking of rude things when I type 'hardened'.

Hardened Alistair will leave if Loghain is spared as well. He's just stubborn that way.

And you have no idea about thinking bad things. My bf has his friends over and they're watching "One-Eyed Monster." I feel gross even mentioning it in here.

I must have imagined that he could be king if hardened - does the hardening not make a difference to the Loghain situation, then?  I suppose that is more realistic.   I spared Loghain with an unhardened Alistair and there was no way to make Alistair king (he and Anora had agreed to be married), so got the wandering drunk epilogue. 

I suppose it would be strange if Alistair could be king and you could end up with Loghain there at the coronation, with Alistair somehow forgetting about executing him.

Is One-Eyed Monster actually funny?   I'll watchh anything if it's funny.  

Modifié par Sannox, 03 avril 2010 - 07:48 .

[ejoslin]

Yeh, if Ali runs off, he becomes a drunk, hardened or no. And it's interesting when Ali is king and Loghain is alive. Oh, Ali very much dislikes the warden when that happens. It's pretty funny, actually, just how nasty he is in his very polite way.

Modifié par ejoslin, 03 avril 2010 - 07:50 .

[sami jo]

@CZ: good luck tomorrow!



@EJ: I've been too old for several years as well, but my brain still has trouble with that idea. I'm still continuously shocked that I am old enough to be the mother of a teenager.