35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Ramante]

My game just glitched! For some strange reason Zevran got a black 'stain' on his head. o.o
I have no clue how it got there and why he is the only one who has it, but I can't seem to make it go away. I returned to camp, went through a cutscene, changed his outfit, but it is still there. Anyone an idea how I can make it go away?

Edit: because starting the game again, removed the black stuff. -.-'

Modifié par Ramante, 04 avril 2010 - 06:36 .

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
My point, at least what I'm trying to get across, is it is NOT about the other person.  Zevran has to have deep feelings as well -- if he doesn't, he'll sleep with a warden who's in love with Alistair or Leliana.  I think if the game really did want to reflect that Zevran was just concerned about Alistair and Leliana, it would be set up so it was about that and Zevran would be forcing the choice based on their feelings.  But he's forcing the choice based on HIS.

Ok, that is true. 
But I can't say I like this very much "Zevran has to have deep feelings as well -- if he doesn't, he'll sleep with a warden who's in love with Alistair or Leliana."
I would interpret it rather differently - it's not about how much he cares or how close to falling in love he is but how much thinking about what he wants  has been done. He has major issue, falling for warden with all his heart and soul is a problem that requires some reflection and it takes long time. So I would assign his not caring what warden does to his unresolved issue rather than to his lower approval. Maybe a matter of wording? 

[ejoslin]

Minaleth wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
My point, at least what I'm trying to get across, is it is NOT about the other person.  Zevran has to have deep feelings as well -- if he doesn't, he'll sleep with a warden who's in love with Alistair or Leliana.  I think if the game really did want to reflect that Zevran was just concerned about Alistair and Leliana, it would be set up so it was about that and Zevran would be forcing the choice based on their feelings.  But he's forcing the choice based on HIS.

Ok, that is true. 
But I can't say I like this very much "Zevran has to have deep feelings as well -- if he doesn't, he'll sleep with a warden who's in love with Alistair or Leliana."
I would interpret it rather differently - it's not about how much he cares or how close to falling in love he is but how much thinking about what he wants  has been done. He has major issue, falling for warden with all his heart and soul is a problem that requires some reflection and it takes long time. So I would assign his not caring what warden does to his unresolved issue rather than to his lower approval. Maybe a matter of wording? 

His falling in love does take a long time.  I think once he hits adore, though, he has deeper feelings than he ever felt for anyone.  I think once he hits "interested" or "care" his feelings are on a par Taliesen/Rinna (this is based SOLELY on the fact he may leave the Taliesen encounter if that's where his feelings for the warden are, and also based on the fact that he sided with Taliesen over Rinna -- it's not set in stone by any stretch and is an entirely different discussion).

Zevran is not sexually jealous.  He's not threatened by the warden having sex with someone else no matter what his approval is.  Alistair isn't sexually jealous either, actually.  Leliana IS.  There is a real difference with the way her romance is set up (she gets upset if she's 51+ and your character has had sex with Zevran).  I think, again, if the writers really meant for Zevran to only be concerned about Alistair/Leliana, it would be set up that way, and Zevran would force the choice once they hit adore or love.

Zevran forces that choice when he's at adore.  Is it because he's worried about Alistair and Leliana and that he just wants everyone to be happy?  I don't think so.  The warden being in a relationship only becomes an issue when Zevran is at that point in the relationship where he wants more.  And it is completely foreign to him.

Also, he expects to be dumped.  I think that's most obvious when you're choosing him over Alistair (it sounds like he's been holding his breath when you choose him).  It strikes me like he's just getting it over with.  Especially since he will admit that he has nothing to offer the warden, and he feels Alistair and Leliana do.

Edit: Hit enter too soon.

Second edit:

I know I'll probably get called on my last statement so I'm including the dialog I'm speaking of.  If you choose someone else and talk to the other person.

Zevran: I take it you have found... another more compatible with your tastes? (sad)
Zevran: No, there is no need to deny it. I... I do not mind. Such is how it goes, yes? (cutting the player off before she can speak, he's just being practical)
Warden: This just wasn't going to work...
Zevran: No, I suppose that is true. There is nothing I can offer a woman such as yourself for very long, I quite agree. (disappointed but he's a realist)
OR
Zevran: No, I suppose it wasn't. How does one make it work between two men, after all? I understand completely. (disappointed but he's a realist)

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 avril 2010 - 06:55 .

[Eislyn]

MorGothic wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: Morgothic, did you turn off the .exe via the task manager?

I would if the .exe was there. The entire problewm is there is no reason why it should be "in use" at all...

// my first program in C++

#include 
using namespace std;

int main ()
{
  cout << "Hello World!";
  return 0;
}

I mean does that scream unremovable .exe file to you...<_<

The only thing I can think of was that I put the script into notepad then turned into an exe (.txt to .exe), but that doesn't explain why its in use. 
I'd like to add I just wanted to see if it worked (unsurprisingly it didn't).

MorGothic, try this program.   It worked for me when I had the same problem.

http://www.snapfiles...et/emcomob.html

[jenovan]

I come bringing screenshots to break up the seriousness.

...well, okay, they're pretty serious.  But still.

And especially for everyone who prefers unmodified Zevran (read: virtually everybody except me XD), I turned off my mod to take a few shots. ;D  (There are more, mod!Zev in place, in my album.)

Modifié par jenovan, 04 avril 2010 - 06:50 .

[Jayelet]

@Jenovan
Where is the beta to test module?
which contains the kiss
I want to try

Modifié par Jayelet, 04 avril 2010 - 07:00 .

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
The VO notes say he's trying to act uncaring there, but not quite succeeding.  
...
Honestly, despite what he says there, do you think when he says, "I'll happily step aside.  Everyone's the happier." he really means it?

No he doesn't mean it, the VO comments are pretty clear about this. Maybe he expects to be dumped, he offers a way out and he wants to make it easy if that is the case. That's pretty sad. I think this is clear.

What is not clear are his reason to ask the warden to choose. We already wrote several possible reasons but I don't think it's supposed to be clear. All seem to be plausible. Zevran himself states some but are they to be believed?
I just want to point out that if I would look for a character to engage into polyamory I would choose Zevran as the most open minded, alas no he appears to be pretty determined on this matter. There is lack of clues why is that. He is not willing to share once in love? I don't know, I need to think more about this.

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...

There's also another interpretation. That it bothers him, and he has no idea WHY. It's just something he never experienced before. He knows he doesn't want the warden with Alistair, and rationalizes it to himself.

The VO notes say he's trying to act uncaring there, but not quite succeeding.

The problem isn't about sex, because you don't have to have sex with him to force the choice (though that could easily be put in). It's not about the other person's feelings exclusively, because it could also very easily be put in there that he forces the choice based on the other person's feelings exclusively. It's about his feelings.

Edit: In fact, there's a separate dialog if you haven't had sex with him yet, which actually is a bit nicer, but he's still forcing the choice, still trying to trivialize their relationship, and still expecting to be dumped.

Honestly, despite what he says there, do you think when he says, "I'll happily step aside.  Everyone's the happier." he really means it?

I editted my post a bit, up above, to add some more.

I do believe that he will step aside rather than be in a situation which doesn't feel right to him.  I don't think he really means he would be happy without you.  But he may well believe himself that he would be happier to have you as a friend, than have the secret affair.  He puts no pressure on the warden to think of his feelings at that point (unlike the others).   He can't even if he wanted to - I believe him later when he says that he didn't understand what he felt.  So I agree that it bothers him, but he doesn't know why.  But I think what bothers him is that this might be the end of the romance - I just think he has to be genuine about what he's saying there.   Otherwise, it's really off of him to say it.    (And he does sound genuiine when he's saying it). Even if he's rationalising, I think he has to mean it when he says it. 

I think he's doing what he thinks is right, and doesn't understand why he feels so bad about it.

[Cuddlezarro]

Jayelet wrote...

@Jenovan
Where is the beta to test module?
which contains the kiss
I want to try

the female kiss isnt done yet but check under charsens profile for the male elf/human male

[Jayelet]

@Cuddlezarro



I have male characters elf

I know that there is still no for females

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

There's also another interpretation. That it bothers him, and he has no idea WHY. It's just something he never experienced before. He knows he doesn't want the warden with Alistair, and rationalizes it to himself.

The VO notes say he's trying to act uncaring there, but not quite succeeding.

The problem isn't about sex, because you don't have to have sex with him to force the choice (though that could easily be put in). It's not about the other person's feelings exclusively, because it could also very easily be put in there that he forces the choice based on the other person's feelings exclusively. It's about his feelings.

Edit: In fact, there's a separate dialog if you haven't had sex with him yet, which actually is a bit nicer, but he's still forcing the choice, still trying to trivialize their relationship, and still expecting to be dumped.

Honestly, despite what he says there, do you think when he says, "I'll happily step aside.  Everyone's the happier." he really means it?

I editted my post a bit, up above, to add some more.

I do believe that he will step aside rather than be in a situation which doesn't feel right to him.  I don't think he really means he would be happy without you.  But he may well believe himself that he would be happier to have you as a friend, than have the secret affair.  He puts no pressure on the warden to think of his feelings at that point (unlike the others).   He can't even if he wanted to - I believe him later when he says that he didn't understand what he felt.  So I agree that it bothers him, but he doesn't know why.  But I think what bothers him is that this might be the end of the romance - I just think he has to be genuine about what he's saying there.   Otherwise, it's really off of him to say it.    (And he does sound genuiine when he's saying it). Even if he's rationalising, I think he has to mean it when he says it. 

I think he's doing what he thinks is right, and doesn't understand why he feels so bad about it.

But then why doesn't he force the choice when the other's feelings hit adore or higher?  Why does he laugh about it to Leliana if she's below adore?  Why does he invite the warden for a massage BEFORE forcing the choice (and the scripting notes are very clear that it goes this way).

Anyway, I think we have to agree to disagree on this. But my point of view is not just "speculation" and "over-analysis".

Edit: What I think is based on OTHER things said and on reactions and such.  I'm not saying you are wrong, and in fact I believe it can be roleplayed the way you're stating.  But my point of view has just as many valid, in-game points backing it up.  It's just from different lines!

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 avril 2010 - 07:14 .

[Sannox]

Minaleth wrote...
What is not clear are his reason to ask the warden to choose. We already wrote several possible reasons but I don't think it's supposed to be clear. All seem to be plausible. Zevran himself states some but are they to be believed?
I just want to point out that if I would look for a character to engage into polyamory I would choose Zevran as the most open minded, alas no he appears to be pretty determined on this matter. There is lack of clues why is that. He is not willing to share once in love? I don't know, I need to think more about this.

I think it depends how you interpret what he is saying.  He may well be happy with polyamory as long as it's open and honest (which surely is important in polyamory).   There's never a chance to test out how he feels about that because none of the other companions would accept polyamory.   He doesn't really say 'I won't share'.  It's more like 'I won't be dishonest'. 

I have wondered if there was a polyamorous situation with Taliesin and Rinna. 

I could imagine him happily in a threeway polyamorous relationship.  I do think he's very giving, and although the warden would be his primary, he'd accept another, as long as it was open, honest and felt secure.  But we have no way of knowing for sure. 

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...
Zevran forces that choice when he's at adore.  Is it because he's worried about Alistair and Leliana and that he just wants everyone to be happy?  I don't think so.  The warden being in a relationship only becomes an issue when Zevran is at that point in the relationship where he wants more.  And it is completely foreign to him.

The reason is that he realizes he wants more and doesn't know what to do about that yet? Does his lines (I am no cheat) support or contradict that? (Btw, I've read one fanfic, where Zev instead of this says "I prefer not to cheat." This sound better to me, more in character.) Why does he say that? Because he doesn't want to be the other man? *stares at screenshots and thinks*

[MorGothic]

Eislyn wrote...

MorGothic wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Edit: Morgothic, did you turn off the .exe via the task manager?

I would if the .exe was there. The entire problewm is there is no reason why it should be "in use" at all...

// my first program in C++

#include 
using namespace std;

int main ()
{
  cout << "Hello World!";
  return 0;
}

I mean does that scream unremovable .exe file to you...<_<

The only thing I can think of was that I put the script into notepad then turned into an exe (.txt to .exe), but that doesn't explain why its in use. 
I'd like to add I just wanted to see if it worked (unsurprisingly it didn't).

MorGothic, try this program.   It worked for me when I had the same problem.

http://www.snapfiles...et/emcomob.html

Thanks but I already killed it. After I posted I remembered that Spybot had a file shedder.

Although I still stumped why it was being used and what by, considering even after resetting the computer it was still in use.

Maker knows what I'm going to do when I get to more complicated programs...next Y2K bug or create Skynet seem most likely. <_<

[ejoslin]

Well, in that conversation he both considers himself the other man AND the main interest. just two different lines, and they do contradict each other, which I think gives MORE reinforcement that it's about his feelings.

Zevran: I suspect Alistair, however, would not feel the same way. If there is to be something between you and I, to string him along would only hurt him deeply. Surely you know this is true.

Heh, in this line, he's the main interest and Alistair is the one being strung along. But then you have the very next line.

Zevran: And what would you have me do, then? I am many things: A murderer, a thief, a lover... but I am no cheat. If whatever is between us cannot be honest, let it not be at all.

He wants what's between them to be out in the open.

Edit: I think these two lines point to a very confused elf who has no clue what is going on with him!

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 avril 2010 - 07:19 .

[Cuddlezarro]

Jayelet wrote...

@Cuddlezarro

I have male characters elf
I know that there is still no for females

sorry for pointing it out then :3

[Jayelet]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

Jayelet wrote...

@Cuddlezarro

I have male characters elf
I know that there is still no for females

sorry for pointing it out then :3

no problem

[Minaleth]

Sannox wrote...
I think it depends how you interpret what he is saying.  He may well be happy with polyamory as long as it's open and honest (which surely is important in polyamory).   There's never a chance to test out how he feels about that because none of the other companions would accept polyamory.   He doesn't really say 'I won't share'.  It's more like 'I won't be dishonest'.  

Yes, thank you. I've gone too far with my thinking, that is not really in game

Sannox wrote...
I have wondered if there was a polyamorous situation with Taliesin and Rinna. 
I could imagine him happily in a threeway polyamorous relationship.  I do think he's very giving, and although the warden would be his primary, he'd accept another, as long as it was open, honest and felt secure.  But we have no way of knowing for sure.  

I honestly don't know, too little info. It could have been, or it totally wasn't. But it's quite imaginable.

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...
But then why doesn't he force the choice when the other's feelings hit adore or higher?  Why does he laugh about it to Leliana if she's below adore?  Why does he invite the warden for a massage BEFORE forcing the choice (and the scripting notes are very clear that it goes this way).

I thought he did force a choice when the others' approval hit a certain level - I haven't tested it out with all, but with Morrigan, I think it was 71. 

He only doesn't force a choice (I think - you know much more about what triggers what than I do!), if his approval is lower - in which case the others don't force a choice either, so there's no need.  It can be an 'honest' situation, and he doesn't need to be a cheat.   I'm a bit vague about Leliana because I didn't pay much attention to that romance, but I do remember that she didn't force a choice when she first brought up the subject. 

But once both Zevran and the other person get to a certain level, he has no choice.   If he doesn't say something, the other person will.  He may be wiling to continue, openly, but the other person isn't, so unless you dump the other one, it has to be a secret affair or none at all. 

I haven't managed to make it to the massage yet, other than when I've been testing it out, but the massage leads to sex, and sex doesn't seem to be the issue, oddly enough.

Anyway, I think we have to agree to disagree on this. But my point of view is not just "speculation" and "over-analysis".

Edit: What I think is based on OTHER things said and on reactions and such.  I'm not saying you are wrong, and in fact I believe it can be roleplayed the way you're stating.  But my point of view has just as many valid, in-game points backing it up.  It's just from different lines!

Agreed, definitely.

[Minaleth]

ejoslin wrote...

Well, in that conversation he both considers himself the other man AND the main interest. just two different lines, and they do contradict each other, which I think gives MORE reinforcement that it's about his feelings.

Zevran: I suspect Alistair, however, would not feel the same way. If there is to be something between you and I, to string him along would only hurt him deeply. Surely you know this is true.

Heh, in this line, he's the main interest and Alistair is the one being strung along. But then you have the very next line.

Zevran: And what would you have me do, then? I am many things: A murderer, a thief, a lover... but I am no cheat. If whatever is between us cannot be honest, let it not be at all.

He wants what's between them to be out in the open.

Edit: I think these two lines point to a very confused elf who has no clue what is going on with him!

...and it points also to rather confused player (<-) who has only few clues what is going on with the confused elf
Oh, you just pointed out the contradiction that bothered me and I couldn't grasp it.

Maybe the best way to interpret this is that Zevran is clueless but feels the need to resolve possible triangle. 

[ejoslin]

Again, I'm not saying, "I'm right, everyone else is wrong." I think there are many very valid points on this -- all of them work with the given dialog. I mean, take the Leliana "your zevran" dialog for a good example. You can be completely casual and inviting her to join in, or you can be completely committed and letting her know, "Hands off!" With Wynne's romance dialog, you can tell her it's just one day at a time, or you can tell her that Zevran is special. Or when Wynne comes around, you can actually tell her that you've seen the tenderness in his gaze from the very beginning.



You can have the relationship be casual from the start, or you can have him falling in love from the start. You can have him be completely monogamous, or you can have him not be.



One thing that IS clear, though. Zevran does not cheat on the warden. He only has sex with someone else when invited and when the warden is involved. Other parts of his dialog, there's enough there that you can take it more than one way.



Another thing, though. He and Taliesen were lovers. THAT is in the game. Nothing really says whether Rinna and Zevran or Rinna and Taliesen were lovers. They may have been, they may not have been. THAT falls under individual roleplaying.

[Sannox]

Or a confused writer? Ok, maybe not .



Maybe the key here is which line of his you focus on, as they all seem to mean something slightly different.

[ejoslin]

Sannox wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
But then why doesn't he force the choice when the other's feelings hit adore or higher?  Why does he laugh about it to Leliana if she's below adore?  Why does he invite the warden for a massage BEFORE forcing the choice (and the scripting notes are very clear that it goes this way).

I thought he did force a choice when the others' approval hit a certain level - I haven't tested it out with all, but with Morrigan, I think it was 71. 

What I mean, Sannox, is BOTH have to be at 71+.  If Alistair is at 71+ and but Zevran is not, then Zevran doesn't force a choice.  If it really WERE about Alistair, Zevran would be forcing a choice when Alistair was at 71+ no matter what Zevran's approval is (it is VERY easy to implement this).

Leliana does bring it up at lower approval.  If she's at 51+ and you've had sex with Zevran, she forces a choice, but you can lie to her.

Modifié par ejoslin, 04 avril 2010 - 07:39 .

[Addai]

*Awakening spoiler*



Can I just say how utterly pissed (Sabriana: the German word "entsetzt" puts it best ) I was to have the ghoul in the Silverite Mine be wearing Zevran's earring? If I could have kicked her into some lava, I would have. Charsen's mod brings out the raging fangirl. LOL At least I got it back. I've been leery of getting the bug where you don't recover all your gear there.

[Sannox]

ejoslin wrote...
Another thing, though. He and Taliesen were lovers. THAT is in the game. Nothing really says whether Rinna and Zevran or Rinna and Taliesen were lovers. They may have been, they may not have been. THAT falls under individual roleplaying.

That's true, but I think given that the Crows seemed to be encouraged to be 'open minded' and promiscuous, given that she loved him, and that he loved her (if the toolset is to be believed), and was definitely sexually attracted to her (judging from the way he talked about her), it seems unlikely to me that they weren't lovers.