35177 réponses à ce sujet

[ejoslin]

I've never been propositioned by Leliana like THAT. Heh, I am starting to get the feeling that guys get better romance lines, unless you're into Alistair, who does have some very good moments.

[jenovan]

Aww, I'm a bit late. XD If anyone wanted to see the transcript of the Zevran conversation mentioned above -- the male PC version of his sexual history talk -- I've got it posted here.



The first time I went through, I didn't try the "define open-mindedness" option either, it sounded challenging/pushy, but Zevran apparently doesn't take it that way, and like AndreaDraco, I kinda like what Zevran's answer infers about his feelings for the male PC



(For those interested in how it affects approval, I got +2 for pretty much any combination I tried... except for 3d. That smacks you with a -15

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

I've never been propositioned by Leliana like THAT. Heh, I am starting to get the feeling that guys get better romance lines, unless you're into Alistair, who does have some very good moments.

I would try take pictures of the pudding line but other than the incomplete playthrough iv slept with leliena all the others have her "dumped" despite me showing no interest in her at all

though if you really want I could use the cheat console to reactivate the romance and take screens of it I remember having to dig for her to comment on the pudding wrestling though

[ejoslin]

jenovan wrote...

Aww, I'm a bit late. XD If anyone wanted to see the transcript of the Zevran conversation mentioned above -- the male PC version of his sexual history talk -- I've got it posted here.

The first time I went through, I didn't try the "define open-mindedness" option either, it sounded challenging/pushy, but Zevran apparently doesn't take it that way, and like AndreaDraco, I kinda like what Zevran's answer infers about his feelings for the male PC

(For those interested in how it affects approval, I got +2 for pretty much any combination I tried... except for 3d. That smacks you with a -15

Wow, that's a lot different from the female version.  Thank you for sharing that.  I don't have a transcript, nor enough screen shots to make one, but, even though a lot of answers are the same, there's enough that is different there that it gives it a very different feel.  Wow, I am in awe of the writers.

Edit: After rereading it, it's a lot more similar than it appears at first glance.  It's just that the differences are so subtle, and give a very intimate conversation a whole different feel, as it should.

Modifié par ejoslin, 30 janvier 2010 - 07:46 .

[Namirsolo]

ejoslin wrote...

I've never been propositioned by Leliana like THAT. Heh, I am starting to get the feeling that guys get better romance lines, unless you're into Alistair, who does have some very good moments.

Leliana's "come on" also never comes right out and says that she wants to sleep with you. The other three are a lot less coy. You can go through the entire Leiliana dialogue pretending you don't know what she is talking about (since she is being quite vague) and she eventually gets mad at you.

Can someone please just say what Zevran says about Cailan's body? Alistair talked over him every chance he got and I can only do it with that one playthrough right now.

[Cuddlezarro]

Leliana's "come on" also never comes right out and says that she wants to sleep with you

she pretty much does if you say your gonna write in your journal

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 30 janvier 2010 - 08:06 .

[ejoslin]

Namirsolo wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I've never been propositioned by Leliana like THAT. Heh, I am starting to get the feeling that guys get better romance lines, unless you're into Alistair, who does have some very good moments.

Leliana's "come on" also never comes right out and says that she wants to sleep with you. The other three are a lot less coy. You can go through the entire Leiliana dialogue pretending you don't know what she is talking about (since she is being quite vague) and she eventually gets mad at you.

Can someone please just say what Zevran says about Cailan's body? Alistair talked over him every chance he got and I can only do it with that one playthrough right now.

SPOILER ALERT!!!!!!!  RtO SPOILER!  Don't read if you don't want to and don't yell at me if you do!

Zevran: Crude.  Go to the trouble of killing a king, you'd think you'd want to see his face. 

[Namirsolo]

That doesn't make any sense because you can see his face.

The whole idea of stringing Cailan's body up makes no sense to me since the darkspawn aren't supposed to be sentient. How would they even realize that that is the king? I know they do string some bodies up, but those were just random people.

I still think Zevran disapproves because he thinks it's just a body.

[Addai]

The darkspawn do string up trophies, though, right? And the emissaries and generals have to have a bit of sentience. I mean, one of the creepiest moments in the game IMO is when you pick up Dog as a non-noble and the hurlock alpha draws his hand across his throat to taunt you. As Alistair might say, creeepy. I got the sense from the Ostagar battle scene that the ogre alpha was making for Cailan deliberately, and especially triumphant about killing him. They might understand no more than "this is the leader."

[Creature 1]

Zevran questions:



1. Zevran says that he wanted to tell about Rinna but Taliesin did not, and that the Crows already knew, but did he ever say if they tried to lie about her or not?



2. When Ignacio calls Zevran a ****son, was he just trying to be rude or did he know Zevran's background? (I think the first, since why would anyone remember 20 years later where one particular recruit came from?)

[ejoslin]

1. He said they needn't have bothered, so I'm assuming that meant they lied and were told that they knew better.



2. I think he was just trying to be rude. It didn't strike me as a personal insult so much as a general insult.

[jenovan]

Creature 1 wrote...

Zevran questions:

1. Zevran says that he wanted to tell about Rinna but Taliesin did not, and that the Crows already knew, but did he ever say if they tried to lie about her or not?

2. When Ignacio calls Zevran a ****son, was he just trying to be rude or did he know Zevran's background? (I think the first, since why would anyone remember 20 years later where one particular recruit came from?)

1. Zevran says that they reported that Rinna had been killed in the assassination attempt.  But the masters knew that wasn't true.

2.  I really don't know... I've seen "****son" used as an insult in other period/fantasy pieces, which makes me think it'd be a fairly common insult, but I don't remember hearing it anywhere else in the game.  Hmm... even if Ignacio didn't know Zev's particular background, perhaps ****house children were common recruits for the Crows, for those "openminded" reasons...

On the other hand, if Zevran was a Crow of any particular renown (not sure if we'd know this... heh XD), his background might be common knowledge.

[Maddyanne]

I thought it was intended personally and that he knew Zevran's background. Likely the Crow masters pay attention to everyone talented and sturdy enough to make it through their apprenticeship and initiation.

A lot of folks don't, from what Zevran says about his training.

Modifié par Maddyanne, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:03 .

[Creature 1]

Thanks. I'm writing the backstory with Zevran getting reprimanded (read "pimp slapped and humiliated") for submitting a report containing lies. If I manage to write it properly it will have an atmosphere like Emile Zola's Therese Raquin, which in my memory is unremittingly dreary and a deep shade of gray. Although of course lacking the literary value and quality of that work.

[nyxocity]

I'm going to share a Zevran play through story that's a bit lengthy, but I think ejoslin at least, might enjoy this.



So, on my most recent play through, I'm playing a city elf, and have been romancing Alistair from the beginning. Usually I go to the Brecilian Forest first--no particular reason, just happened to be the first place I went in the first game, and I repeated the pattern in later games. This time though, I decided to go to the mage tower first and save the forest for last, since I wanted to get all my companions as early as possible. The tower is one of the shortest if you run right through it, so I picked up Zevran much earlier than usual in terms of hours spent playing. I love having Zevran in the party, but usually don't get to have him in it until higher levels because I need someone who can pick locks. This time I got him up on picking locks early on, and was able to have him in the party throughout the game, which was awesome. It also resulted in a strange situation for my character, emotionally.



Zevran has a LOT to say about pretty much every quest, and the conversations he has with the other characters tell a lot about him. My elf loves Alistair to death, she really, really does. It's this pure, very affectionate, deep and abiding love and acceptance. And yet... throughout gameplay, she's felt this sort of... connection and affection for Zevran that's done nothing but deepen every time he speaks. It's difficult to describe in solid terms, but my elf feels like Zevran is really LOOKING at HER, both literally and figuratively, body and soul, whenever he speaks about something. Like he's really paying attention, seeing inside her instead of being caught in his own problems like so much of the rest of the party. Every conversation between them seems layered, intimate and intense. She's known she's been falling for him, slowly, but she's mostly been able to ignore it. After the Taliesan encounter, when they spoke, (completely still in the friends zone), his affection for my elf was somewhere close to 90. She asked him to stay as a friend, and his reaction to that touched her, made her feel happy for his happiness and that he was now staying by choice rather than an oath. It also once again deepened her feelings for him.



Shortly thereafter, he told her about Rinna, and after that, he went to 100%. They're still nothing but friends, but now when she asks him to do something specific (when I click on him during adventuring--and ONLY when I click on him, not when she speaks to him) he says "Si, mi amora?" and "I am yours", and she's slowly realizing that she's in love with him. All of this has created this kind of... feeling of sharing some kind of a secret whenever he looks at her in camp, or any time at all, really. Like they both know it's there but they aren't speaking about it in specific terms.



I find this particularly fascinating from an RP perspective, because normally I RP the character the way I conceptualize them and the story does little to sway that. My elf loves Alistair and will likely become Chancellor. She'll never leave Alistair or cheat on him, and she loves him just as dearly, although for different reasons. But knowing Zevran throughout the story, even just as a friend, has caused her to fall for him and brought this feeling of being pulled in two directions. She's pulled by this longing that she knows can never be truly fulfilled and yet at the same time very deeply satisfied by what they have (and is convinced that Zevran feels the same way). It's ALMOST but not quite a love triangle... it's like Zevran and she share something very deep and intimate, a love that's known but unspoken and unacted upon, and they both know she loves Alistair and is committed to him. It's this secret bond that runs deeper, even, than romancing him. It's something incredibly special, and I've been really pleased to discover something so deep and touching so unexpectedly--especially since I have played through getting to know him to varying degrees in varying ways many times before.



It's also made me bloody curious to see how the relationship would progress if I began it this late in the game. I think, on my next play through with a different character, I may just win him as a friend and turn on the romance after Landsmeet and see how that feels as a progression. When I've romanced him before it's always happened early and quickly, and it didn't feel nearly as special as this. Anyway, bottom line: on my fourth playthrough, I've found a deep love and appreciation for Zevran as a character, and without even romancing him. He'll never not be part of my party again.

[ejoslin]

Awwww, thank you for sharing that. The character really is very special, and I love the way you RP it (*flutter*). On my city elf full of man hate, I may do the same thing. She has Alistair at -100, and Leliana in love, and I have a save from when I first picked up Zevran, and doing the friend zone with him and healing may actually be a beautiful story as well.

Gah, I love reading this stuff! Thank you again!

Edit: That city elf hates human men, and while is not a lesbian, needs affection and companionship, and Leliana IS very sweet.  I had originally played it as a love triangle between three rogues, but since I have that old save, and especially since I haven't had the heart to play that game because it seemed so unfeeling, I like that RP possibility.  

Alistair's hate speech is worth getting him down to -100 at least once.  The man DOES have a pair when he feels strongly, but unfortunately recognizes that he needs the PC to do everything.  And she had no problem pointing that out to him.  Even though I know it won't end well for him, it usually doesn't have a happy ending for him anyway.

Modifié par ejoslin, 31 janvier 2010 - 12:18 .

[Addai]

A sweet story, thenixie, and somewhat the experience of a couple of my characters. My elves always bond with Zevran, even the Dalish elf who at first looked down on him. He is just so genuine, how could you not appreciate that even if you're committed to someone else?



ejoslin, you have me curious about Alistair "hate speech"! I am not likely to ever have him at -100 so could you post some or PM some?

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

A sweet story, thenixie, and somewhat the experience of a couple of my characters. My elves always bond with Zevran, even the Dalish elf who at first looked down on him. He is just so genuine, how could you not appreciate that even if you're committed to someone else?

ejoslin, you have me curious about Alistair "hate speech"! I am not likely to ever have him at -100 so could you post some or PM some?

Sure, but I will only have the conversation choices my PC picked.  You can be meaner or nicer than this.

SPOILER WARNING:  ALISTAIR HATE!

It comes up when you come to camp.  He confronts you.  No clicking on him (kind of like when he's at love)

Alistair: I think we need to talk.  Right now.
PC: I don't think I like your tone.
Alistair: No? Well here's a shocker for you: I don't care.  I'm going to talk and you're going to listen.
Alistair: You're a Grey Warden.  I know you weren't one for very long before Duncan and the rest were all killed, but that didn't mean you stopped being one.
Alistair: And I'm sick of the mockery you're turning it into.  You, a Grey Warden? Duncan would have been disgusted.  I can't believe I'm even party to this.
PC: You can go and fight darkspawn on your own if you like.
Alisatir: Right. Fat lot of good that would do me, wouldn't it? And because of that I have to stand by and watch you disgrace everything I hold dear?
Alistair: Has it occurred to you that you might be part of something larger?! That the Grey Wardens might be a tradition worthy of upholding, even if you don't care about all the lives you're saving?
PC: The Grey Wardens do what is needed, not what is nice.
Alistair: "Nice" would be miles and miles beyond where you are.  I'm not even looking for "nice." I'm talking about being a decent human being.
Alistair: I guess I'll have to be satisfied with you actually helping to stop the Blight, won't I? If that's still your intention. I can't do it on my own.
PC: On your own? I'd be happy if you helped at all!
Alistair: Let's just go. I don't want to talk to you any more.

And really, you have to HEAR this to appreciate it fully.

If you do a persuade check at the beginning, he does tone it down a lot.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 31 janvier 2010 - 01:05 .

[Creature 1]

Oh my, I have to make him hate me! That is just amazing. Too bad he withholds it all for -100.

[nyxocity]

ejoslin wrote...

Awwww, thank you for sharing that. The character really is very special, and I love the way you RP it (*flutter*). On my city elf full of man hate, I may do the same thing. She has Alistair at -100, and Leliana in love, and I have a save from when I first picked up Zevran, and doing the friend zone with him and healing may actually be a beautiful story as well.

Gah, I love reading this stuff! Thank you again!

Edit: That city elf hates human men, and while is not a lesbian, needs affection and companionship, and Leliana IS very sweet.  I had originally played it as a love triangle between three rogues, but since I have that old save, and especially since I haven't had the heart to play that game because it seemed so unfeeling, I like that RP possibility.  

Alistair's hate speech is worth getting him down to -100 at least once.  The man DOES have a pair when he feels strongly, but unfortunately recognizes that he needs the PC to do everything.  And she had no problem pointing that out to him.  Even though I know it won't end well for him, it usually doesn't have a happy ending for him anyway.

You're welcome  I'm glad you enjoyed it. He really is very special, and I felt that more on this playthrough than any other, which was a fantastic surprise. I'm glad that it may inspire you to retry a game you'd given up on! I'd love for you to post about it here if you do.

My city elf didn't have a great love of men either after her experience, although she wasn't hateful. Alistair being a genuinely good person who tries to do the right thing, coupled with his boyishness, innocence and insistence on courting her is what drew her in. She was attracted to the goodness and the lightheartedness in him after living such a heavy life. And then she got to know Zevran, whose life was more like hers, and her love for him happened very organically.

On another note... I should be finishing that game right now, but as always, after the Landsmeet, I find myself reluctant to head to the final battle. I think it's that I don't want things to end. I wonder if anyone else has that problem.

Hee! I just recently heard about that speech, and I'd love to see it, but I don't know if I could stand getting Ali down to -100. I hate it when any of the characters get mad at me, and he is my favorite of them. I'd love to see a clip of it, though. I wonder if there's one on youtube? *goes to check*

Edit: Found it! And wow, this player was MEEEEEEAN. But his responses are basically the same.

Modifié par thenyxie, 31 janvier 2010 - 01:26 .

[nyxocity]

Addai67 wrote...

A sweet story, thenixie, and somewhat the experience of a couple of my characters. My elves always bond with Zevran, even the Dalish elf who at first looked down on him. He is just so genuine, how could you not appreciate that even if you're committed to someone else?

ejoslin, you have me curious about Alistair "hate speech"! I am not likely to ever have him at -100 so could you post some or PM some?

He's very genuine and forthright, and doesn't seem to want anything from you except for you to want him with you. Which is a small thing, compared to what some of the other party members ask you to do. It takes a bit of time to get to know him, but once you do, I can't see how you couldn't fall for him just a little.

[_Aine_]

ejoslin wrote...

Sure, but I will only have the conversation choices my PC picked.  You can be meaner or nicer than this.

SPOILER WARNING:  ALISTAIR HATE!

It comes up when you come to camp.  He confronts you.  No clicking on him (kind of like when he's at love)

Alistair: I think we need to talk.  Right now.
PC: I don't think I like your tone.

*gasps*  That is really quite good!  I mean, shocking!  I have never quite hated him enough to get this much from him.... not sure i can do that, but certainly worth it --- would be worth a million to see that sort of venom from him!   Wow.  

[Nonvita]

thenyxie wrote...

You're welcome  I'm glad you enjoyed it. He really is very special, and I felt that more on this playthrough than any other, which was a fantastic surprise. I'm glad that it may inspire you to retry a game you'd given up on! I'd love for you to post about it here if you do.

My city elf didn't have a great love of men either after her experience, although she wasn't hateful. Alistair being a genuinely good person who tries to do the right thing, coupled with his boyishness, innocence and insistence on courting her is what drew her in. She was attracted to the goodness and the lightheartedness in him after living such a heavy life. And then she got to know Zevran, whose life was more like hers, and her love for him happened very organically.

On another note... I should be finishing that game right now, but as always, after the Landsmeet, I find myself reluctant to head to the final battle. I think it's that I don't want things to end. I wonder if anyone else has that problem.

Hee! I just recently heard about that speech, and I'd love to see it, but I don't know if I could stand getting Ali down to -100. I hate it when any of the characters get mad at me, and he is my favorite of them. I'd love to see a clip of it, though. I wonder if there's one on youtube? *goes to check*

Edit: Found it! And wow, this player was MEEEEEEAN. But his responses are basically the same.

Your city elf sounds a whole lot like mine. She got to Ostagar with an intense hatred of human males, and lo and behold she gets stuck with just that. But I think that's part of her attraction to Alistair--he turns out to be kind (even more than her, in fact) and caring towards her. It confuses her to no end, but it starts to feel like a real, innocent kind of love.

Her relationship with Zevran, on the other hand, unfortunately begins on a much shallower level. He's one of the few elves she's seen since leaving the Alienage, so he's the only connection (even if a weak one) to her home, and that perhaps clouds her vision toward him. Add in that she's always been a little bit loose with men, and Zevran's pretty much just there for the kicks. At least in the beginning...

But, as she talks more to Zevran she does start to develop feelings for him, perhaps more genuine than with Alistair. She recognizes it, but feels she already made a commitment to Alistair (especially as Grey Wardens together) so she chooses him. She realizes the feelings for Zevran will never go away, and it becomes one of her many regrets. After talking with Riordan she realizes she may have to sacrifice herself, and, feeling she has no happy future with either man she loves, is fully prepared to do so. But upon defeating the Archdemon, the one thing she didn't expect to happen happened: Alistair refused to let her die and sacrficed himself instead.

I always feel like that would have broken her. She had felt all along that she had failed others (Shianni, the Alienage, Zevran), and that the only thing she'd had left was protecting Alistair so he could become King. Failing at that, too, and watching her love die was devastating. But there was hope left at the end of the tunnel: I had unknowingly reactivated the Zevran romance, so in the end she and Zevran traveled together as lovers.

I like to imagine that Zevran saved her from losing all hope in life. He had wanted to die after losing Rinna, so I can see him consoling her after her loss of Alistair. And I think that, deep down, he would have been grateful to Alistair for committing the sacrifice, because he would have lost the only important thing in his life otherwise.

That was my first playthrugh, and I did miss out on parts of the Zevran romance. Actually I didn't realize how amazing his romance is until the end, after that unexpected series of events made me reevaluate everything. Now I have a hard time not just falling in love with him from the beginning.



As for getting Alistair to hate you, I had him pretty far down with my HNF by the time I'd just gotten out of Lothering! BUT, I thought she was too much of a ****, so I've restarted her and she's a little more sensible now. She doesn't love him, but she does go from looking down on him to viewing him respectfully. And she'll become Queen with him at 100 friendly.

[Addai]

Aw, these stories are great. My last playthrough was a city elf so it's near and dear, as well. Although she was my first character who didn't fall for Alistair in any way, shape or form- just couldn't. But what you describe about loss and guilt for losing him, and Zevran helping her feel hope about her own life again, that was pretty much how I saw her coming back from seeing Nelaros die for her. One thing I thought about, too, was what a psychological trauma it is to become a Grey Warden during a Blight- to be suddenly steeped in so much darkness (Alistair hints at this when he's talking about the nightmares). My city elf was definitely in a grim place mentally when this cheerful assassin came along and told her she had too lovely a face to look so sad. *sigh*

Modifié par Addai67, 31 janvier 2010 - 04:18 .

[Addai]

thenyxie wrote...

Edit: Found it! And wow, this player was MEEEEEEAN. But his responses are basically the same.

Wow!  Ouch!!  I am, I think, physically incapable of clicking on things that would provoke such a reaction from that particular blob of pixels.  LOL

Modifié par Addai67, 31 janvier 2010 - 04:22 .