35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonvita]

Wozza78 wrote...

But thats what Zev is. What I'm getting  alot of in this post is that it's ok to be lewd, lecherous, and thoroughly selfish if you have pointy ears or are generally good looking. Does Zev actually have any redeeming qualities? His oath of
loyalty aint worth the paper it's written on, and he flirts just as shamelessly with Liliana and Alistair as the main PC. He's the guy that drives men and women into the arms of those they are actually meant to be with.

1. You'd be surprised--a lot of us here actually didn't find Zevran that attractive at first, thought he was lewd in the beginning, weren't taken with him romantically, etc. Our opinions haven't all been "OMG he'z teh hot I luv him" ever since we first laid eyes on him. It was because he's much deeper than his surface lets on, and we found that we like what's underneath the exterior.

2. Yes, he has plenty of redeeming qualities. Have you actually played through the whole game with him? Even as a friend, he becomes incredibly loyal by the end. He will turn on you with Taliesan if you haven't bothered befriending him even the slightest, but other than that he is completely true to his word. Many people complain that they couldn't get him high enough to not betray them, but you only need ~+26 (I think) approval. One of my characters never romanced him and got significant negative numbers in all her conversations with him, but still managed to get him up higher than that before Taliesan. There are also several discussions in this thread about why he turns on you with Taliesan. Besides that, he has one of the strongest declarations of loyalty in the game for both friend/romance (no, not his original oath), and it even becomes part of his codex.

3. His flirting is joking. He flirts with everyone--Leliana, Alistair, Wynne, Oghren, Morrigan. You really think he's serious? Let me just say that his reasons for flirting range from annoying the person to having made a bet about it. It's just something he does, but it doesn't reflect on his loyalty in a romantic relationship at all. When questioned about being with the Warden, he is always very happy and outright with it--he never keeps it a secret, belittles it, or actively pursues other lovers.

4. As ejoslin mentioned, try the US ending with him romanced.

5. Are you saying that every female is meant to be with either Alistair or Leliana? Interesting... Well, many of us went for Alistair before ever going for Zevran, and found that Zevran's romance is much more fulfilling. Not to mention that Alistair dumps you in front of everyone, whereas Zevran is completely loyal in his romance. You really should try the romance before making assumptions about it.


Sorry, long post. >.>

Edit: Euuugh, long post on top.
And you guys are reminding me why I don't read fanfiction anymore.

Modifié par Nonvita, 05 avril 2010 - 06:23 .

[TheComfyCat]

Wozza78 wrote...

But thats what Zev is. What I'm getting alot of in this post is that it's ok to be lewd, lecherous, and thoroughly selfish if you have pointy ears or are generally good looking. Does Zev actually have any redeeming qualities? His oath of loyalty aint worth the paper it's written on, and he flirts just as shamelessly with Liliana and Alistair as the main PC. He's the guy that drives men and women into the arms of those they are actually meant to be with.

His "flirting with everyone" routine isn't about him trying to be lewd or lecherous. With Wynne he's deflecting her rude, probing questions with humor, he's picking at Leliana's "good girl" facade, with Morrigan it's a bet (with Alistair, Oghren, and I forget who else).

...And everything Nonvita and others have said.

Edit: Also, Zevran was my first choice as a love interest. Alistair is whiny, sappy, and childish. Not attractive by my standards.

Modifié par senorfuzzylips, 05 avril 2010 - 06:25 .

[Wozza78]

Lol...ok ok...I was just shaking the hornets nest here. I have played through the game with Zev up to the point where he chooses to side with me over Taliesin, but I always found myself choosing Morrigan or Leliana when the ultimatum was put to me; guesse thats just me overcompensating lol. Personally I like Zev. He's usually in my main party and I haven't completed the game without him in the group that confronts The Arch Demon yet.

[Sabriana]

I agree, Fuzzy, it's a great post Nonvita.



Aside from that, he also tries to interest Wynne in a friend of his, btw. He tries to shut her self-righteous mouth, and he succeeds very well.

The flirting with Morrigan is a bet, which he wins to the tune of 5 silvers. Alistair and Leliana are involved in that bet, and end up being awed and owing money to Zevran. Followed by Morrigan's "I hate you all." For some reason, that always makes me laugh, even though I do like Morri.

I don't recall any flirting with Alistair though? Did I miss something? Most of it sounds like 'nose-tweaking', some are a macho-battle going back and forth, and in others Zevran gets annoyed and even a bit angry, iirc.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

I agree, Fuzzy, it's a great post Nonvita.

Aside from that, he also tries to interest Wynne in a friend of his, btw. He tries to shut her self-righteous mouth, and he succeeds very well.
The flirting with Morrigan is a bet, which he wins to the tune of 5 silvers. Alistair and Leliana are involved in that bet, and end up being awed and owing money to Zevran. Followed by Morrigan's "I hate you all." For some reason, that always makes me laugh, even though I do like Morri.
I don't recall any flirting with Alistair though? Did I miss something? Most of it sounds like 'nose-tweaking', some are a macho-battle going back and forth, and in others Zevran gets annoyed and even a bit angry, iirc.

He said getting Alistair to hop borders is a feat worthy of heroes.  It went right over Alistair's head.  The famed "tattoo" conversations were taken out of the game.  Even so, according to the toolset, Zevran was teasing.

So many people seem to take Zevran's teasing seriously.  I guess it's hard for people to see how playful really is.  But that's part of what so great about him.

I swear I wrote the exact same thing yesterday.

[Kaioku]

Creature 1 wrote...

Killing yourself for no reason does not equal love in my book.  That's Bella/Edward "love". 

These names need to be perma-banned from this thread!!!
...please.

[jenovan]

lol, Wozza... nice troll fakeout. ;P Try choosing Zevran at least once, though, I'd say the sense of "omg really?" (in a good way) from his romance is on par with Morrigan's.

Edit: Especially with ejoslin's and Charsen's mods in place and the dialogue working the way it's supposed to!

Modifié par jenovan, 05 avril 2010 - 06:39 .

[soignee]

Yeah, there's some thinly veiled "south of the borders" jokes at Alistair's expense with Shale:



Shale: I am curious. Will the painted elf answer a question?

Zevran: Why not? I appear to have all day.

Shale: The painted elf attacked the Grey Warden, and yet it still lives. Had the decision been mine, its skull would be so much pulp right now.

Zevran: Oh, I don't know. Could you destroy something as pretty as I am, hmm?

Shale: Easily. I fail to see how any measure of attractiveness would make one difficult to crush.

Zevran: Perhaps you do not know how to look, then.

Zevran: Here, take that templar fellow. Rugged good looks, quick wit, manly shoulders. Just getting him to hop borders is a challenge worthy of the great heros.

Alistair: A challenge? I'd happily hop borders, given the chance. I've never even been close to leaving Ferelden!

Zevran: One would have to be blind not to realise how very pretty we all are and how important that is to preserve.

Shale: Hmph. Perhaps there are definitions of "blind" I have yet to understand.

[TheComfyCat]

Sabriana wrote...

I agree, Fuzzy, it's a great post Nonvita.

Aside from that, he also tries to interest Wynne in a friend of his, btw. He tries to shut her self-righteous mouth, and he succeeds very well.
The flirting with Morrigan is a bet, which he wins to the tune of 5 silvers. Alistair and Leliana are involved in that bet, and end up being awed and owing money to Zevran. Followed by Morrigan's "I hate you all." For some reason, that always makes me laugh, even though I do like Morri.
I don't recall any flirting with Alistair though? Did I miss something? Most of it sounds like 'nose-tweaking', some are a macho-battle going back and forth, and in others Zevran gets annoyed and even a bit angry, iirc.

Ah, sorry, I meant his bet was "with Alistair, Oghren, and I forget who else." But he does actually have a banter where he teases Al... but it's not in the game. (Al wants a tattoo, and Zev offers to give him one... then tells him he has to bathe and massage him first as part of a pre-tattoo ritual lol)

[Nonvita]

Wozza78 wrote...

Lol...ok ok...I was just shaking the
hornets nest here. I have played through the game with Zev up to the
point where he chooses to side with me over Taliesin, but I always found
myself choosing Morrigan or Leliana when the ultimatum was put to me;
guesse thats just me overcompensating lol. Personally I like Zev. He's
usually in my main party and I haven't completed the game without him in
the group that confronts The Arch Demon yet.

Lol, well, I guess around here we like to hear ourselves talk?

It's fine to not romance Zevran--he's a great friend, too. If you've gotten up to Taliesan, you'll have a conversation in camp afterward once you reach "friend" status with him. If you really want to see some of the best of Zevran, just tell him in that conversation that he's a friend to you. It really should leave no doubt that he's a different, and better, person than he used to be.

Sabriana wrote...

I don't recall any flirting with Alistair though? Did I miss something? Most of it sounds like 'nose-tweaking', some are a macho-battle going back and forth, and in others Zevran gets annoyed and even a bit angry, iirc.

Well, not really flirting with Alistair, but the way he eggs him about sexual matters is fitting with those styles of banters. He's just using sexual topics to aggravate the others, get information about them, deflect things they're saying, etc.
How could I forget about hopping borders and erotic tattooing techniques?!

Modifié par Nonvita, 05 avril 2010 - 06:43 .

[Wozza78]

jenovan wrote...

lol, Wozza... nice troll fakeout. ;P Try choosing Zevran at least once, though, I'd say the sense of "omg really?" (in a good way) from his romance is on par with Morrigan's.

Edit: Especially with ejoslin's and Charsen's mods in place and the dialogue working the way it's supposed to!

I have thought about trying Zev with a Dalish warrior. Since Im gonna be starting another play through soon I may just do that

[Sabriana]

Yeah, that's a good one. Poor Alistair. But I still find that Zevran meant that to be funny and to tweak Alistair's nose once again. He seems to have fun doing that, and he has no doubts about Alistair's non-worldliness. He does say at one point. "Morrigan said you were sharp. No liar she."

He does like to make fun of himself and others. But when it comes right down to it, he never denies his involvement with the Warden. On the contrary, he's very happily admits it, and expands on it.

is an intelligent man, I do not doubt that he enjoyed a great education, but he's not wise to the ways of the world. How could he? He was locked up in the Chantry since he was 10 years old. So he is a bit of an innocent, and a great target for Zevran. He does tease him, but he's not mean about it, like, say, Morrigan.

Edited, because that's the law in this thread.
I know about the tattoo banter, and all the other ones that got cut. I was the one who posted them all here, lol. But the toolset notes make it very clear that Zevran is "totally teasing".

Modifié par Sabriana, 05 avril 2010 - 06:46 .

[sami jo]

Wozza78 wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

I've read this thread - http://social.biowar...index/2069443/3, and it made me wonder how would Zevran react to the warden's Calling. Do you think he'd go with her/him to the Deep roads to meet death together?

Absolutely not. Zevran is first and foremost all about his own survival. He even watched and enjoyed as his best friend slit the throat of the last woman to love him because he allowed himself to be manipulated by The Crows. He may travel there with his love until he/she dies but he would never sacrifice himself. He may have travelled to Ferelden with a deathwish, but after The Arch Demon is defeated he has regained his appreciation for life.

Okay, I'll bite.  You didn't spend much time with him in game, did you? 

Rinna.  If you choose the line in the conversation when he tells you about her of, "That was a horrible thing to do." (or something to that effect) he will agree with you.  He regretted it then and the regret drove him to attempt suicide by Warden.  He also tells the Guardian at the Gauntlet that he regrets it all. 

As far as being manipulated by the Crows, he was sold to them at the ripe old age of seven.  If you take him to the fade, you'll see that his training involved torture, and he mentions it in several conversations.  In fact, there is one response in which he tells the PC to ignore his scars as he does and maybe they will go away.  He makes it quite clear that he has been used his entire life.

As for your previous comment that his oath means nothing, as a friend or lover, after the Taleisin encounter, he wants to stay.  If he was solely worried about his own survival, he would be booking it out of Fereldon as fast as he could.  As a friend or lover he wants to fight the Archdemon by the PC's side and tells a friend that he would walk to the Black City itself by his/her side.  He will also stay with the PC solely as a friend to rebuild the Grey Wardens in the epilogue.  He is the only one of the companions, other than Allistair if he is not king, who will stay with the PC in the epilogue permanently. 

And as for his flirting, yes, he does make flirtatious comments, but they are almost always made to deflect the questions of the other companions.  He uses humor to deflect attention in the same way that Allistair does, but Allistair makes comments about flying dogs instead of magical bosoms.  He doesn't actually expect anyone to take him up on it; and he will not make a single flirtatious comment to the PC again if the PC tells him that s/he is not interested.  He will call the PC on s/he romancing others when his approval is high enough the same way the other companions do if romanced, and he will end the romance at the end of the game if the PC will not commit to a possibility of a future together.  None of the other romance options forces that kind of a choice.  And you don't even have to go to the tent with him until he has made a commitment to you with the earring.  He will offer before then, but if you don't accept it doesn't necessarily turn off the romance unless you specifically want it to.

He is a survivor and he isn't all about kittens and flowers.  He is a strong and somewhat damaged man who does not suffer fools willingly.  How many of your other companions will argue strenuously to save the mages/ Dalish etc.?  They will tell you off or attack you if they don't like what you did, but how often do they step in and try to talk you in to doing the right thing?  He will. 

And he is the only companion who asks "nothing more from you than what you are willing to give." (his line in game).  He wants and needs the PCs friendship and approval, but he doesn't demand it.  he doesn't send you on a personal quest for him.  He anything you ask of him, and if you have him in the hostile range, he will ask to leave long before he would betray you with Taleisen. 

Edit:  Ninja'd, of course.

Modifié par sami jo, 05 avril 2010 - 06:49 .

[Addai]

Wozza78 wrote...

Lol...ok ok...I was just shaking the hornets nest here.

Well, that is... nice, I guess.  At least you come clean.  Too much time on your hands today? 

[TheComfyCat]

ejoslin wrote...

*snip*

So many people seem to take Zevran's teasing seriously.  I guess it's hard for people to see how playful really is.  But that's part of what so great about him.

I swear I wrote the exact same thing yesterday.

Yeah, it seems like it's repeated at least weekly around here. His comments are too often taken at face value. (Which doesn't say much for those who are unable to notice that... they should maybe learn to read between the lines a bit)

@Sabriana... Oh . But I definitely agree with what you're saying. He's just having fun with Al. And I love that Zev's able to laugh at himself; people that take themselves too seriously are no fun!

[ejoslin]

Wozza78 wrote...

jenovan wrote...

lol, Wozza... nice troll fakeout. ;P Try choosing Zevran at least once, though, I'd say the sense of "omg really?" (in a good way) from his romance is on par with Morrigan's.

Edit: Especially with ejoslin's and Charsen's mods in place and the dialogue working the way it's supposed to!

I have thought about trying Zev with a Dalish warrior. Since Im gonna be starting another play through soon I may just do that

If you do, seriously think about using my mod (especially after Charsen gets done with it).  There are serious bugs with Zevran's dialog, especially at the gates.  In the vanilla game, he gives the "friendly" dialog to someone who's in love, and the "warm" dialog to someone who's friendly.

[Wozza78]

sami jo wrote...

Wozza78 wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

I've read this thread - http://social.biowar...index/2069443/3, and it made me wonder how would Zevran react to the warden's Calling. Do you think he'd go with her/him to the Deep roads to meet death together?

Absolutely not. Zevran is first and foremost all about his own survival. He even watched and enjoyed as his best friend slit the throat of the last woman to love him because he allowed himself to be manipulated by The Crows. He may travel there with his love until he/she dies but he would never sacrifice himself. He may have travelled to Ferelden with a deathwish, but after The Arch Demon is defeated he has regained his appreciation for life.

Okay, I'll bite.  You didn't spend much time with him in game, did you? 

Rinna.  If you choose the line in the conversation when he tells you about her of, "That was a horrible thing to do." (or something to that effect) he will agree with you.  He regretted it then and the regret drove him to attempt suicide by Warden.  He also tells the Guardian at the Gauntlet that he regrets it all. 

As far as being manipulated by the Crows, he was sold to them at the ripe old age of seven.  If you take him to the fade, you'll see that his training involved torture, and he mentions it in several conversations.  In fact, there is one response in which he tells the PC to ignore his scars as he does and maybe they will go away.  He makes it quite clear that he has been used his entire life.

As for your previous comment that his oath means nothing, as a friend or lover, after the Taleisin encounter, he wants to stay.  If he was solely worried about his own survival, he would be booking it out of Fereldon as fast as he could.  As a friend or lover he wants to fight the Archdemon by the PC's side and tells a friend that he would walk to the Black City itself by his/her side.  He will also stay with the PC solely as a friend to rebuild the Grey Wardens in the epilogue.  He is the only one of the companions, other than Allistair if he is not king, who will stay with the PC in the epilogue permanently. 

And as for his flirting, yes, he does make flirtatious comments, but they are almost always made to deflect the questions of the other companions.  He uses humor to deflect attention in the same way that Allistair does, but Allistair makes comments about flying dogs instead of magical bosoms.  He doesn't actually expect anyone to take him up on it; and he will not make a single flirtatious comment to the PC again if the PC tells him that s/he is not interested.  He will call the PC on s/he romancing others when his approval is high enough the same way the other companions do if romanced, and he will end the romance at the end of the game if the PC will not commit to a possibility of a future together.  None of the other romance options forces that kind of a choice.  And you don't even have to go to the tent with him until he has made a commitment to you with the earring.  He will offer before then, but if you don't accept it doesn't necessarily turn off the romance unless you specifically want it to.

He is a survivor and he isn't all about kittens and flowers.  He is a strong and somewhat damaged man who does not suffer fools willingly.  How many of your other companions will argue strenuously to save the mages/ Dalish etc.?  They will tell you off or attack you if they don't like what you did, but how often do they step in and try to talk you in to doing the right thing?  He will. 

And he is the only companion who asks "nothing more from you than what you are willing to give." (his line in game).  He wants and needs the PCs friendship and approval, but he doesn't demand it.  he doesn't send you on a personal quest for him.  He anything you ask of him, and if you have him in the hostile range, he will ask to leave long before he would betray you with Taleisen. 

Edit:  Ninja'd, of course.

Lol Yikes...sorry!!

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

If you do, seriously think about using my mod (especially after Charsen gets done with it).  There are serious bugs with Zevran's dialog, especially at the gates.  In the vanilla game, he gives the "friendly" dialog to someone who's in love, and the "warm" dialog to someone who's friendly.

When that day comes, I'll break out a bottle of the bubbly, and send a toast over the ocean to  you and Charsen.
My heroes

Modifié par Sabriana, 05 avril 2010 - 06:56 .

[sami jo]

ejoslin wrote...

Wozza78 wrote...

jenovan wrote...

lol, Wozza... nice troll fakeout. ;P Try choosing Zevran at least once, though, I'd say the sense of "omg really?" (in a good way) from his romance is on par with Morrigan's.

Edit: Especially with ejoslin's and Charsen's mods in place and the dialogue working the way it's supposed to!

I have thought about trying Zev with a Dalish warrior. Since Im gonna be starting another play through soon I may just do that

If you do, seriously think about using my mod (especially after Charsen gets done with it).  There are serious bugs with Zevran's dialog, especially at the gates.  In the vanilla game, he gives the "friendly" dialog to someone who's in love, and the "warm" dialog to someone who's friendly.

What I find amazing about that dialogue is that he was meant to tell a friend that he would quite literally do anything at all for him/her.  My first character ended up with him and I really loved the interaction, but it was my silly mage who was just friends with him the entire game who convinced me just what a wonderful character he was.  All of the other love interests have much shallower interactions with a PC they are not involved with.  Zev's interactions with a friend are just as deep and he is just as committed, even if you never even flirt with him.

[Nonvita]

sami jo wrote... 

Edit:  Ninja'd, of course. [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/ninja.png[/smilie]

But you added so many good points!

And see, we really do enjoy the sounds of our own voices around here. But they're so pretty!

senorfuzzylips wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

*snip*

So many people seem to take Zevran's teasing seriously.  I guess it's hard for people to see how playful really is.  But that's part of what so great about him.

I swear I wrote the exact same thing yesterday.

Yeah, it seems like it's repeated at least weekly around here. His comments are too often taken at face value. (Which doesn't say much for those who are unable to notice that... they should maybe learn to read between the lines a bit)

@Sabriana... Oh . But I definitely agree with what you're saying. He's just having fun with Al. And I love that Zev's able to laugh at himself; people that take themselves too seriously are no fun!

I love how silly Zevran is. He's a good counter to many of the other companions, as he pretty much takes their seriousness and chucks it out the window. I like being around people who make me laugh, especially when it's blatantly joking, good-natured flirtation (which it seems obvious that it is to me--but then I guess my friends tend to be that way, too...).

Modifié par Nonvita, 05 avril 2010 - 07:01 .

[sami jo]

Wozza78 wrote...

Lol Yikes...sorry!!

That really wasn't meant to be mean and nasty.  I tend to be a bit too blunt.  <hands a peace offering of cookies over>

[jenovan]

*hands Wozza an asbestos overcoat for a little while* XD;;  Hornets indeed.

sami jo wrote...

What I find amazing about that dialogue is that he was meant to tell a friend that he would quite literally do anything at all for him/her.  My first character ended up with him and I really loved the interaction, but it was my silly mage who was just friends with him the entire game who convinced me just what a wonderful character he was.  All of the other love interests have much shallower interactions with a PC they are not involved with.  Zev's interactions with a friend are just as deep and he is just as committed, even if you never even flirt with him.

I actually found Morrigan's Friendly gates conversation with my elf really touching, too... she's another one who could be easily written off (as a mean **** rather than a letch), but somehow people seem to get to know her with little problem, unlike Zevran... wonder why that is...

[ejoslin]

sami jo wrote...

What I find amazing about that dialogue is that he was meant to tell a friend that he would quite literally do anything at all for him/her.  My first character ended up with him and I really loved the interaction, but it was my silly mage who was just friends with him the entire game who convinced me just what a wonderful character he was.  All of the other love interests have much shallower interactions with a PC they are not involved with.  Zev's interactions with a friend are just as deep and he is just as committed, even if you never even flirt with him.

Truthfully, a big part of the reason I tackled Alistair's end game dialog (ugh ugh ugh, I do not recommend end game mods for learning the toolset, but I suppose I'm a better person for it) is I want people to install the mod even when not romancing Zevran because that friendship dialog is so powerful.  I figure that's more likely to happen if there's cleanups to the Alistair stuff as well.

Modifié par ejoslin, 05 avril 2010 - 07:04 .

[soignee]

I love Morrigan too, she's my second favourite character after Zev.

[Wozza78]

sami jo wrote...

Wozza78 wrote...

Lol Yikes...sorry!!

That really wasn't meant to be mean and nasty.  I tend to be a bit too blunt. 

No need to appologise. I feel the same way when I think that people are trolling characters I'm quite fond of. Truth is I do need to spend a little moe time exploring the Zevran relationship