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[ejoslin]

My current play through on my city elf . . . it's an older save, so I'm not as affected by it as I could have been:

She had just seen a dear friend murdered for begging not to be raped, her fiance murdered for trying to save her, and her best friend and cousin raped, all because a human lord and his friends viewed that as sport. She killed everyone in her way, completely in self-defense. Duncan, another human, told her he'd get her to the Dalish if she wanted, but then, even though he saved her life from yet more humans, the guards, decides to make her into a Grey Warden instead of taking her to the Dalish as he initially said he would.

So every human so far in her life has wanted to hurt her or at the very least, betray her and use her. She is forced to travel with human men, and then is forced to fight with them and has had to push all her feelings aside. As a result, she is completely numb, except this hate for human men. She has cold bloodedly murdered two by the time she leaves Ostagar. What's worse, is she now has to be nursemaid to yet another human, and will not have a part of it.

Fortunately for her, she finds a kindred of a sort, Leliana. She is not gay, but she needs to feel loved and Leliana, if nothing else, gives her the love and healing she needs, and falls in love in return. She falls in love with a person, not a woman, and it just happened to end up that way. The numbness has finally faded.

Her turning point actually was when she refused to help a human city, and saw the devastation that caused. No matter how angry and numb she was, she realized that no one deserved that, and that she alone was responsible for the deaths of all of those women and children.

So when she went to check on the Arl and found out that Conner was an abomination, she listened to Bann Teagan and Alistair, decided not to risk anyone else, and went to kill him. She also took pity on Isolde at the end and let her kill Conner. Alistair confronting her after that was a shock -- and pretty much convinced her that human men really are horrible. She hates Ferelden, hates humans, hates the religion that empowers the whole system.

So yes, when given an opportunity, she defiles the ashes of Andastre. She does not want this corrupt system getting any more powerful. And her lover turns on her for it, and tries to kill her.

I feel SO bad for this character. I'm not sure Zevran will ever leave the friend zone. She just may be entirely too broken.

Modifié par ejoslin, 31 janvier 2010 - 04:17 .

[LordBegrezen]

highcastle wrote...

I just wanted to point out that if a male character in a relationship with Zev turns down the ring at first and then accepts it later, you can still get the proposal lines from Zev, which I found rather amusing. Ferelden: officially more contemporary than the States.

Really ?
Oh, that must be soo cute.
I am definetly going to try that out. It's a shame though, that Zev joins your group so late...
I think I read somewhere, the fastet way to get Zev is to travel to Denerim directly after Lothering an do the Sacred Ashes quest, is that correct?
I am on my sixth or seventh playthrough and it is boring without him...

[ejoslin]

LordBegrezen wrote...

highcastle wrote...

I just wanted to point out that if a male character in a relationship with Zev turns down the ring at first and then accepts it later, you can still get the proposal lines from Zev, which I found rather amusing. Ferelden: officially more contemporary than the States.

Really ?
Oh, that must be soo cute.
I am definetly going to try that out. It's a shame though, that Zev joins your group so late...
I think I read somewhere, the fastet way to get Zev is to travel to Denerim directly after Lothering an do the Sacred Ashes quest, is that correct?
I am on my sixth or seventh playthrough and it is boring without him...

Two fastest ways -- do the ashes quest or redcliff without the mage tower -- sacrifice Isolde or Conner instead.  

[Sabriana]

Oh lords, Ejoslin, that's a tragic story. Poor elf. Oh my, the Leliana angle plays so well into the tragedy, it makes me feel sad for your PC. I wonder how it will end. If Zevran does get through to her, he has major work to do in the healing department. I wonder if she thinks he's up to that, or if she just completely gave up on interpersonal relations altogether.

Oh the poor woman.

[LordBegrezen]

ejoslin wrote...

LordBegrezen wrote...

highcastle wrote...

I just wanted to point out that if a male character in a relationship with Zev turns down the ring at first and then accepts it later, you can still get the proposal lines from Zev, which I found rather amusing. Ferelden: officially more contemporary than the States.

Really ?
Oh, that must be soo cute.
I am definetly going to try that out. It's a shame though, that Zev joins your group so late...
I think I read somewhere, the fastet way to get Zev is to travel to Denerim directly after Lothering an do the Sacred Ashes quest, is that correct?
I am on my sixth or seventh playthrough and it is boring without him...

Two fastest ways -- do the ashes quest or redcliff without the mage tower -- sacrifice Isolde or Conner instead.  

Ah, yes. I think I'm doing the Sacred Ashes, want to take Zev to Redcliffe because I have never done that before.
Thanks!

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh lords, Ejoslin, that's a tragic story. Poor elf. Oh my, the Leliana angle plays so well into the tragedy, it makes me feel sad for your PC. I wonder how it will end. If Zevran does get through to her, he has major work to do in the healing department. I wonder if she thinks he's up to that, or if she just completely gave up on interpersonal relations altogether.
Oh the poor woman.

What I find most amazing is that this story flows so naturally.  There is nothing forced; the dialogs support everything.  This play through feels just as real as any of my others, and in some ways, moreso.  The writing of this game is so incredible that you can end up with so many different stories, all from the same basic framework.

[jenovan]

highcastle wrote...

I just wanted to point out that if a male character in a relationship with Zev turns down the ring at first and then accepts it later, you can still get the proposal lines from Zev, which I found rather amusing. Ferelden: officially more contemporary than the States.

I was definitely wondering about that, good to know. ;D  (and also, awwwwww I can't wait to get there, guh. XD)

[jenovan]

ejoslin wrote...

What I find most amazing is that this story flows so naturally.  There is nothing forced; the dialogs support everything.  This play through feels just as real as any of my others, and in some ways, moreso.  The writing of this game is so incredible that you can end up with so many different stories, all from the same basic framework.

That story was absolutely heartbreaking!    It makes me wonder what sorts of decisions this character would make at the end of the game..

I do love how the game can really support your story, though.   I decided to create a human mage (based loosely on an existing character of mine).  I thought, before I started playing, "Okay, his special thing is that he's really good in the Fade.  Maybe his Harrowing goes really really awesome because of that."  Lo and behold, after your Harrowing, some of the apprentices (IIRC) gossip about how your Harrowing was one of the fastest anyone's seen lately, or something like that.  Talk about playing right into your hands!   My predispositions for him are flowing along really well-supported by the game, it's quite fun.

(To be more on-topic: Still wondering what to do with him and Zevran though... since Morrigan is madly in love with him at the moment <_< )

[Namirsolo]

Hmmmm, you know, with his response being as it was, one time I was
curious when we got to that point and I said, "No, that's too much."
 Trust me on this one -- you and that elf are engaged!

Thanks guys. My mage and Zevran are engaged now. I was kind of curious about the "That's too much" line but I couldn't do it last night. Maybe today, but I don't know if I can take it.

[Creature 1]

Namirsolo wrote...
Thanks guys. My mage and Zevran are engaged now. I was kind of curious about the "That's too much" line but I couldn't do it last night. Maybe today, but I don't know if I can take it.

It's pretty bad, especially if you follow it up with, "But hey, we don't have to stop screwing around!" 

[Cuddlezarro]

highcastle wrote...

I just wanted to point out that if a male character in a relationship with Zev turns down the ring at first and then accepts it later, you can still get the proposal lines from Zev, which I found rather amusing. Ferelden: officially more contemporary than the States.

hey even if ferelden somehow doesnt alow gay marriage its entirley possible you end the game with one of your friends as king and he does kind of owe you one for saving the country and his life countless times~

also I have to say I really like Zevrans little argument with Harrowmonts first in command over how worthy harrowmont is king (not like I would ever actually make him king considering my metagaming knoledge prevents me from doing it since it screws up the dwarves) I wish more characters had banter like that

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 31 janvier 2010 - 05:11 .

[Creature 1]

I don't think gays can marry officially in Ferelden, because it's a Chantry institution and the Chantry doesn't recognize gay marriage. They don't seem to think homosexuality is wrong there, but the institution of marriage still seems preoccupied with reproduction and property rights.

[Cuddlezarro]

the chantry also doesnt allow mages to become nobility yet that didnt stop alistair from making my female mage a teyrn



needless to say if ferelden doesnt allow it normally I can just ask alistair to make it happen~

[AndreaDraco]

Or we can move to Antiva or Orlais

[jenovan]

Considering the Warden's status, either with the Grey Wardens, the throne of Ferelden, or what have you, even if a male PC isn't allowed to marry Zevran under the laws of the Chantry, I would hope their spousal rights or whatnot would be enforced by friends.





Okay, Zevran characterization question... I'm interested in hearing some various opinions on what would happen in this scenario:



Zevran is at 90+ Adore with the PC (they're nowhere near the Taliesen encounter, by the by), and they've had the "what of love" conversation. They are in battle and the PC takes a sudden, life-threatening injury. How does Zevran react to this?



*curiously stands by*

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

I think what was the worst moment in this game, though, was not the Alistair hate speech, which in truth got my city elf thinking that romancing him wouldn't be so bad. It was Bann Teagan screaming at her after she let Redcliff fall. THAT is a horrible moment.

OMG poor Teagan! None of my characters so far have had the nerve to abandon Redcliffe (especially when it means losing out on XP ). What does he say???



On another note, I'm so frustrated that refusing the earring didn't emotionally work with my only Zev romance playthrough. So the only time I've seen it was when playing around. It's such a beautiful moment- I want so badly for one of my characters to actually experience it, but I don't have any other characters yet that the Zev romance works for.

[ejoslin]

Unfortunately, I don't have screen shots of it, it was so unexpected, and I re-started this game up from picking up Zevran after putting it aside for awhile it was so depressing -- so it's been a couple of weeks. This is a difficult play through. However, it helps a bit that she turned to Zevran after having to kill Leliana, and it glitched into love. She was just so tired of always having to be in charge, being yelled at for making tough decisions, when Zevran started speaking for the group and making some of those decisions as well in Orzammar, she was SO grateful. Plus she started noticing when she fought how he always kept an eye out for her and saved her skin repeatedly when she got in over her head (gogo default tactics). So things are looking a bit up for her. She is still broken, but so is he, and maybe together they can somehow fix themselves.

As an interesting aside, I never knew he didn't tell about Rinna when in the friend zone until after Taliesen. It makes a lot of sense, though. That story just makes more sense after that fight instead of before, though if they're lovers, I suppose you can assume he's told her bits and pieces about Taliesen.

I think I know already how it's going to end.  Alistair will never trust her enough to tell her about Goldanna.  But when Anora will talk about running the kingdom for 5 years, she will just see red.  Killing her father in front of her will be a sick justice of sorts.

Heh, this would be a great fan fic, but one that I'm sure won't be written!

Modifié par ejoslin, 31 janvier 2010 - 07:29 .

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

Unfortunately, I don't have screen shots of it, it was so unexpected, and I started this game up from picking up Zevran after putting it aside for awhile it was so depressing -- so it's been a couple of weeks. This is a difficult play through. However, it helps a bit that she turned to Zevran after having to kill Leliana, and it glitched into love. She was just so tired of always having to be in charge, being yelled at for making tough decisions, when Zevran started speaking for the group and making some of those decisions as well in Orzammar, she was SO grateful. Plus she started noticing when she fought how he always kept an eye out for her and saved her skin repeatedly when she got in over her head (gogo default tactics). So things are looking a bit up for her. She is still broken, but so is he, and maybe together they can somehow fix themselves.

As an interesting aside, I never knew he didn't tell about Rinna when in the friend zone until after Taliesen. It makes a lot of sense, though. That story just makes more sense after that fight instead of before, though if they're lovers, I suppose you can assume he's told her bits and pieces about Taliesen.

I think I know already how it's going to end.  Alistair will never trust her enough to tell her about Goldanna.  But when Anora will talk about running the kingdom for 5 years, she will just see red.  Killing her father in front of her will be a sick justice of sorts.

Heh, this would be a great fan fic, but one that I'm sure won't be written!

I think your character deserves a little happiness, and I'd say Zevran is the best thing for that. I always feel like, no matter what the PC's been through, Zev's been through just as much. He definitely understands the emotional pain of losing a lover, so he has a deep bond to a PC who has lost someone so dear. Whenever one of my PCs starts to lose hope, I always just think of asking Zevran, "Do you still want to die?" If his answer can't bring them around, I don't think anything can.

And even if your character is too broken for love, I think a Zevran friendship could easily be just as special in this case. You already know yourself that Zevran can value friendship just as highly as love. It seems like what your character needs is someone who will stick by her, through thick and thin, not just because of fleeting emotions of love, but because of an honest and genuine concern for her happiness.

[Namirsolo]

also I have to say I really like Zevrans little argument with
Harrowmonts first in command over how worthy harrowmont is king (not
like I would ever actually make him king considering my metagaming
knoledge prevents me from doing it since it screws up the dwarves) I
wish more characters had banter like that

I think Zevran is absolutely right with this (and the epilogue proves it if you pick Harrowmont). Bhelen might not be the nicest guy, but nice guys don't really make great leaders.

As an aside, I was used to the ps3 version and holy crap, the PC version is way harder. I die a lot now when I never did in the ps3 version.

[Namirsolo]

Speaking of too broken for love (I hope this isn't a double post), someone asked how Zevran reacts to you pressiing him about love- not well. Since he has been told his entire life that love is a weakness and something that he should only use to get closer to his targets, he has trouble admitting his feelings. When he finally does, the word love doesn't cross his lips.

I play my city elf as sort of broken, too. That's why I think Zevran is perfect for her. They're both "damaged goods" as my boyfriend put it.

[Creature 1]

jenovan wrote...
Zevran is at 90+ Adore with the PC (they're nowhere near the Taliesen encounter, by the by), and they've had the "what of love" conversation. They are in battle and the PC takes a sudden, life-threatening injury. How does Zevran react to this?

Chapter 9?  Hold on, let me refresh my memory. . .  Brb! 

[Cuddlezarro]

As an aside, I was used to the ps3 version and holy crap, the PC version is way harder. I die a lot now when I never did in the ps3 version.

you will get used to it trust me its really based on how well you use your mage (and the 3rd person view helps targeting people with AoE spells much easier)



im at the point where I find difficulty enhancing mods(on nightmare) I find the game extremely easy and I refuse to use more than one mage (because you know I hate wynn)

[Tibbi_Sunshine]

UnDutchable wrote...

Namirsolo wrote...

So I'm finally to the landsmeet in my mage playthrough and I'm going to turn down the earring for the first time. What options do I have to choose to make sure I hear him admit his feelings later?

After you've told him you don't want the earring unless it means something, invite him back to your tent and he'll refuse. You can try to push him to say why, which just makes him angry with you and makes you lose approval points (about 5 or so, I think). After that, talk to him again and tell him that he seems different and ask him what's changed. I'm pretty sure the best option during that conversation is  I don't know, but I know how I feel about you 
. He says that's enough for him and asks if you still want the earring, as a token of affection this time. Tell him that sounds like a proposal and... well, happily ever after.

Just did the "No..I mean, no...I mean, no offense..." dialogue again and actually GAINED approval.  If you ask him is he wants to "end this" and he throws it back to you and then you reply, "no, of course not," you get +3.

[Addai]

Namirsolo wrote...

Speaking of too broken for love (I hope this isn't a double post), someone asked how Zevran reacts to you pressiing him about love- not well. Since he has been told his entire life that love is a weakness and something that he should only use to get closer to his targets, he has trouble admitting his feelings. When he finally does, the word love doesn't cross his lips.

I think it's good to ask such questions if it's what your character really wants to know.  You get some good insight into Zevran sometimes by picking responses that rattle him, even if you get dinged a bit.  Obviously not things that are outright mean or patronizing.  Ugh, my Dalish warden patronized him so badly at first.  A wonder that they turned out to be good friends.