35177 réponses à ce sujet

[soignee]

Idk, I think my butch little duster is so vehmently butch because she doesn't want to be associated to what women like her sister have to do to survive Dust Town.

She thinks it's a sign of weakness to express anything vaguely frippery and feminine- shoes, dresses, etc- and that she won't be taken seriously. I might write in the sequel she gets smacked out of that, as in Antiva women are expected to be women, even if she is *only* a dwarf.

****, I'm top of the page! Pretend I linked some fine dwarf porn.

Modifié par soignee, 07 avril 2010 - 08:12 .

[Aroihkin]

Tellervo wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Tellervo wrote...


Less tea.  More pain.

You can take my orange pekoe + sweet'n'lo from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands!

Warden said so.  Honest.

I really should take a screencap of that conversation.  Awakening was good for one thing, at least.

When is this? I totally missed it. XD

soignee wrote...

Idk, I think my butch little duster is so
vehmently butch because she doesn't want to be associated to what women
like her sister have to do to survive Dust Town.

She thinks
it's a sign of weakness to express anything vaguely frippery and
feminine- shoes, dresses, etc- and that she won't be taken seriously. I
might write in the sequel she gets smacked out of that, as in Antiva
women are expected to be women, even if she is *only* a dwarf.

****,
I'm top of the page! Pretend I linked some fine dwarf porn.

I think I'm not articulating myself very well, but your character doesn't strike me as the kind of "wtf" I'm referring to at all, so if it sounded that way... it wasn't. <3

I think it's fine to base a character around something like that, which is a little more complex, and some people can even start a character off as "I'm making a girl dwarf. Period." and do marvelous, but most people can't. Just like most Queen Couslands are kind of terrifying, if that makes more sense? But not every human noble woman, or even human noble girl who hooks up with Alistair, is bad.

IDK HOW ELSE TO PUT IT, I AM MADE OF ARMFLAIL. And too little caffeine.

Edit:
And going back to the yaoi point, starting off an entire character concept with "I'm going to make a flamingly flaming gay man who is also very gay" can turn out well in the end, but is more likely to be some flamboyant stereotype at the end of the day.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 07 avril 2010 - 08:18 .

[Tellervo]

Not dwarf porn, but how's this?

[soignee]

BB I think you and I both are running on crazy and caffiene now, I know I am. I always get fuzzy on cold medicine, for some reason.

Gah my new chapter sucks but I published it goddammitttttttttt. Pretend it never happened and move swiftly on.

[soignee]

Tellervo wrote...

Not dwarf porn, but how's this?

fecking accurate considering what I just wrote D: Blimey.

[Aroihkin]

Tellervo wrote...

Not dwarf porn, but how's this?

YES PLZ.

I see I'm not the only one whose Zev gets the epic killshots. He even manages to go all matrix on the archdemon half the damn time in my games.

EDIT: I keep seeing Zev in black felon's coat and such. I need to download some armor mods.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 07 avril 2010 - 08:23 .

[Tellervo]

He steals all the good kills. Not that I mind. I unfortunately missed the part of this one where, when he jumps off and rolls to break his fall, he landed right at Cadryn's feet. It was awesome.

[MorGothic]

Aroihkin wrote...

sami jo wrote...

Vista

You have my condolences. I'm stuck with the same virus... er, I mean, OS.

And thus, NOTHING EVER WORKS RIGHT.

MorGothic wrote...

as it this (sterotypical) type of gay person that really get on my nerves.

I'm going to sound really full of myself for a second here, and I apologize since I really don't think I am, but...

I think the problem is that people write/create/etc characters who are X thing.

People keep complimenting my OC in the DA fic... if I changed her gender, she'd be the same character. Now, that might seem obvious since she's a very butch gal, but I think I can safely say that of any of my characters. Tannusen's had fanart drawn of him, people liked him so much, but if I made him a girl he'd be the same. Akara from TAF would do fine as a dude.

Same thing goes for orientation, too, IMHO.

...Now obviously I'm oversimplifying, and these things can color a character, even irreversibly. But I think one of the main mistakes a person can make is when they start with "I'm going ot make a gay male!" and go from there, for example.

*climbs off soap box before I can really get ranty* [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/grin.png[/smilie] I rant about this a lot IRL.

AND ALSO, IT'S PROBABLY NOT EVEN THE MAIN POINT. BUT IT'S 1AM HERE AND I AM LOW ON TEA.

Being low on tea alone deserves capslock-armflail. TRUE STORY.

EDIT: WHY DOES THE FORMATTING KEEP HITTING ME OH GOD.

Hmm no I agree with most of what your saying, what I don't agree with is that OC could be switched to male and be the same. You could have everything the same, the injures, the throat thing etc but it wouldn't be the same character the way you write the story would change. I'm probably not making any sense...

and and being low on Tea is bad bad thing. 

[Tellervo]

She would be missing those feminine expectations, I think is what Mor is trying to say. She would lose some of her shock value.

[Sabriana]

@ MG. Oh, the Sten. He really should stop talking so much.

I haven't the time (and/or the place) to click on all the links, but I certainly have the pages noted down where they are. However, since even just thinking of the Wynne/Flemeth pairing has me doing this:o_O, I'm not sure I want the actual pictures on my innocent monitor.



I am not a fanfic reader, usually I read a paragraph and go "bah! another minute of my life wasted!", but I did read "Immovable Object" and loved it. It's been a while, so I imagine that Aroihkin has put up more chapter since then. I have to check it out again.



There are very few writers whose fanfic I enjoy. I think the only ones I do enjoy reside in this thread. Actually, so is the writer of "Immovable Object". How strange



By the way, Good Morning everyone. Two more hours 'till lunch. Time is simply crawling this morning. I so hate paperwork, bleh.

[soignee]

I'm trying to work out if my Missa was a boy (Mista?) If it would be the same... No, I don't think it would. The dynamic between Rica would be different, for one. And Mista would be less vulnerable, as much as it pains me to say that.
He'd feel he has less to prove and that he could hold his own.

Ah, gender issues. Good tiems.

Modifié par soignee, 07 avril 2010 - 08:33 .

[Aroihkin]

Ah, I think we've got a differing of terminology here. The character isn't the rest of the story around her, she's just the character.

See, Alley has also been a Steel dragon, an instructor in the Harry Potter setting, a Gundam mechanic, a bodyguard, about four different flavors of assassin, the leader of a covert desert-based rebel movement in a post-apocolytpic AU setting, a Pernese dragonrider, a Scathach Sidhe, and probably all sorts of other stuff I'm not remembering at this hour. Same character, different hats.

The story would change, yes, but only in (and because of) others' perceptions of her. I didn't say the story wouldn't change, just that the character wouldn't. She (he?) would be a constant, I wouldn't feel like I was writing an entirely different person. It would be no more of a change than switching between some of those other settings I mentioned. The Alleyana who jabbed a lit cigarette at a vampire and a weresnake in the World of Darkness setting is the same Alleyana who shield-slammed Zevran into the dirt in chapter 01 of Immovable Object.

*tired reiteration* Alley + gender swap. Story change = yes. Character change = no.

Edit:

Sabriana wrote...

I am not a fanfic reader, usually I read
a paragraph and go "bah! another minute of my life wasted!", but I did
read "Immovable Object" and loved it. It's been a while, so I imagine
that Aroihkin has put up more chapter since then. I have to check it out
again.

There are very few writers whose fanfic I enjoy. I think
the only ones I do enjoy reside in this thread. Actually, so is the
writer of "Immovable Object". How strange

I'm glad you like it!

You guys are going to give me a complex, I'm seriously waiting for the next person who mentions it to be to talk about that damn crazy person on ffnet who wrote Zev liking an ugly chick and oh my god, was it terrible.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 07 avril 2010 - 08:43 .

[MorGothic]

Tellervo wrote...

She would be missing those feminine expectations, I think is what Mor is trying to say. She would lose some of her shock value.

Yeah thats what I ment. I blame it on the facts it 9: 40am...

[soignee]

Aroihkin wrote...

Ah, I think we've got a differing of terminology here. The character isn't the rest of the story around her, she's just the character.

See, Alley has also been a Steel dragon, an instructor in the Harry Potter setting, a Gundam mechanic, a bodyguard, about four different flavors of assassin, the leader of a covert desert-based rebel movement in a post-apocolytpic AU setting, a Pernese dragonrider, a Scathach Sidhe, and probably all sorts of other stuff I'm not remembering at this hour. Same character, different hats.

The story would change, yes, but only in (and because of) others' perceptions of her. I didn't say the story wouldn't change, just that the character wouldn't. She (he?) would be a constant, I wouldn't feel like I was writing an entirely different person. It would be no more of a change than switching between some of those other settings I mentioned. The Alleyana who jabbed a lit cigarette at a vampire and a weresnake in the World of Darkness setting is the same Alleyana who shield-slammed Zevran into the dirt in chapter 01 of Immovable Object.

*tired reiteration* Alley + gender swap. Story change = yes. Character change = no.

ah hah, I got you now, I think. Is this where I open a can of worms and think gender can shape character? It is, isn't it? 

I think I might be too fecked on lack of sleep and meds to argue this articulately though, so I'm going to go draw and bow out now before I make a ****** of myself and the thread derails into random gifs of lolcats or something

Aroihkin wrote...
!

You guys are going to give me a
complex, I'm seriously waiting for the next person who mentions it to be
to talk about that damn crazy person on ffnet who wrote Zev liking an
ugly chick and oh my god, was it terrible.

I
get that about dwarves all the damn time. Especially from Alistair
fangirls. So I've sort of ...stopped writing Alistair as anything other
then bromance.

Modifié par soignee, 07 avril 2010 - 08:48 .

[soignee]

lolol double post sorry >.>

Modifié par soignee, 07 avril 2010 - 08:48 .

[Aroihkin]

soignee wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Ah, I think we've got a differing of terminology here. The character isn't the rest of the story around her, she's just the character.

See, Alley has also been a Steel dragon, an instructor in the Harry Potter setting, a Gundam mechanic, a bodyguard, about four different flavors of assassin, the leader of a covert desert-based rebel movement in a post-apocolytpic AU setting, a Pernese dragonrider, a Scathach Sidhe, and probably all sorts of other stuff I'm not remembering at this hour. Same character, different hats.

The story would change, yes, but only in (and because of) others' perceptions of her. I didn't say the story wouldn't change, just that the character wouldn't. She (he?) would be a constant, I wouldn't feel like I was writing an entirely different person. It would be no more of a change than switching between some of those other settings I mentioned. The Alleyana who jabbed a lit cigarette at a vampire and a weresnake in the World of Darkness setting is the same Alleyana who shield-slammed Zevran into the dirt in chapter 01 of Immovable Object.

*tired reiteration* Alley + gender swap. Story change = yes. Character change = no.

ah hah, I got you now, I think. Is there where I open a can of worms and think gender can shape character? It is, isn't it? 

I think I might be too fecked on lack of sleep and meds to argue this articulately though, so I'm going to go draw and bow out now before I make a ****** of myself and the thread derails into random gifs of lolcats or something

Like I originally said, things like gender or orientation can color a character irreversibly.

What I think is dangerous is when it's treated like it absolutely has to.

...But I'm totally not articulating very well this morning, so.

[Charsen]

thanks for the non-toxic sisterly squee Sabriana =p i hope your HF has a good time with Zev.



hah soignee. if you post a lolcat just put zevran's tattoo on it. it's cool. =P

[Sabriana]

Oh she will, Charsen. Poor thing has been waiting around long enough

It would be great if there were tutorials around on how to change/edit conversations properly, and how to touch up screenshots. Unfortunately, they get lost in this thread. Perhaps the group...?? We do, after all, usually do those things if/when they affect Zevran in some way.

I've been trying to find stuff, such as the CharGeneration in the toolset and such, but I seem to have lost my memory of where they are in here. I also lost the piece of paper with the page numbers on it. That's it. It's a sad fact. I'm losing it.

I've read "The Golden Key" and now I'm perma-stuck with a brain image of a semi-naked Zevran running through Antiva. Which is definitely NOT a bad thing, btw. Nice story, I like it. Missa is a bad, bad girl. And I don't mean that in a bad way.

[Aroihkin]

soignee wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

You guys are going to give me a complex, I'm seriously waiting for the next person who mentions it to be to talk about that damn crazy person on ffnet who wrote Zev liking an ugly chick and oh my god, was it terrible.

I get that about dwarves all the damn time. Especially from Alistair fangirls. So I've sort of ...stopped writing Alistair as anything other then bromance.

Alistair fangirls frighten me. This is where I resist telling the story of Why I Left SiB on LJ, because it's only going to get me run out of this thread with torches and pitchforks, and shunned by this half of the fandom as well.

AND THEN WHAT WILL I WRITE FANFIC IN?! Certainly not my other in-progress, other-fandom stories, of course. That would make sense. And we can't have that from me!

Edit: It's not a judgement call on folks here, I've just learned that folks flip out easily over things I'd never expect them to flip out over, so now I expect much flipping out. AT ALL TIMES. CONSTANT FLIPPING.

Sabriana wrote...
I've
read "The Golden Key" and now I'm perma-stuck with a brain image of a
semi-naked Zevran running through Antiva. Which is definitely NOT a bad
thing, btw. Nice story, I like it. Missa is a bad, bad girl. And I don't
mean that in a bad way.

I have too, and the naked donkey lady still amuses the hell out of me. If we ever get to go to Antiva, I'd totally expect one to go running by...

Edit since things seem pretty quiet right now:

Original point re: gender thing wasn't even about gender. And there are characters that I've written or roleplayed that could not switch gender and remain the same person, and I've liked those characters fine.

The original point was if that's the main factor when a character is made, they seem more likely to end up as a cliche. Same thing for orientation. It's not a given that they are, I just find that stereotypical characters often look like they were built around the thing they're being stereotypes of.

Character A was raised by his older half-sister because their shared father is kind of an evil dick. He just happens to be bisexual.

Character B is whatever the creator things a bisexual guy is, with all that other stuff added in for backstory.

I'd be less surprised if B was more of a cliche than A, although B could turn out to be awesome and A could be a horror, all depending on the writer. There's always exceptions. Bad characters like in that jrpg though, were probably built around their "selling point" and little else. Someone like Zevran meanwhile seems to have been built around a lot of different things all at once, and his entire character doesn't seem, to me, to hinge completely on any one of these things. If he was built around one thing, it was "slave-turned-assassin", but if so, he's one of those characters who was done well and he was certainly fleshed out well beyond that starting point.

The dude in the jrpg, meanwhile... not so much. He looks like he was built around being gay and "quirky", and anything else is ancillary.

I hope that works better. >.>

Edit 2: Since it's still quiet.

Alley and gender neutrality was brought up because I keep hearing about how she isn't the stereotypical girl OC. I hold that this was helped by the way I made her as a character, who then just happened to turn out to be female. I didn't start out with her going "You know, I want to make a girl who happens to be ____."

And, again, one can take "I want to make a girl who is also ____." and make a perfectly awesome character. But also again, most cliche girl characters seem to start off as "I'm going to make a girl vampire/fairy/sparklecreature!"

It's not a two way street; it doesn't hold that just because you start off at that point you're going to make a cliche, but the cliches do tend to be based around one defining thing.

Or I could be totally wrong and blowing smoke out of my ***, I dunno! It's just my opinion!

Modifié par Aroihkin, 07 avril 2010 - 09:52 .

[Minaleth]

I'll put here some thought on gender (not) defining the character (as soon as I get some food).

Well, I think that for some characters gender does not play any role. Reading a lot of manga and lurking around internets thought me not to even care. Sometimes it doesn't change anything. I even know few people IRL that don't look like anything withing their gender and honestly I don't need to know what is in their underwear since I don't plan to have kids with them, we either have nice chat or we don't. But back to characters.

I agree that it matters what is character built around. Starting point could be anything and certain things lead to stereotypes easier than other ones. Some characters are strongly based on their genre, some have this connection weaker - it's imo same with RL people.
I haven't written lot of stories but all the few started with a plot... the characters were secondary and I even switched genres if it seemed to be good idea. I love to create characters even if there is no real story, for RP, for drawings, whatever. But if there should be real story I think first about the plot - see if I make up a romance, it clarifies itself somehow along the process who are the actors in that.
I don't know if this is right thing to do, but do it this way  (and I suck, because I can't set up the plots, it's always epic struggle).

Modifié par Minaleth, 07 avril 2010 - 10:47 .

[Aroihkin]

*grins* Note that backstory also isn't the character to me. See all of Alley's previous versions listed above! You can bet those others weren't betrothed, hauled off by a noble, etc. In fact, example A is her little half-brother... who doesn't even exist in this iteration, and her father is usually nothing at all like Cyrion.



Gah, my geekery is showing. I probably put way too much thought into this stuff and I probably sound really effing pretentious. XD

[kayleighrawr]

Seriously. WTF bioware forum. This is possibly the weirdest thread I've entered. I love it though.

[Minaleth]

Well, backstory is important but it's not always the same as core of character. Some events that seem pretty big may not influence the char at all. I am always struggling with how to define the character before I put them into the story, so sometimes I just make up some basic premises and we will see later how they turn out.

[Minaleth]

kayleighrawr wrote...
Seriously. WTF bioware forum. This is possibly the weirdest thread I've entered. I love it though.

Only few can resist awesomeness of this thread

[Aroihkin]

Minaleth wrote...

I'll put here some thought on gender (not) defining the character (as soon as I get some food).

Well, I think that for some characters gender does not play any role. Reading a lot of manga and lurking around internets thought me not to even care. Sometimes it doesn't change anything. I even know few people IRL that don't look like anything withing their gender and honestly I don't need to know what is in their underwear since I don't plan to have kids with them, we either have nice chat or we don't. But back to characters.

I agree that it matters what is character built around. Starting point could be anything and certain things lead to stereotypes easier than other ones. Some characters are strongly based on their genre, some have this connection weaker - it's imo same with RL people.
I haven't written lot of stories but all the few started with a plot... the characters were secondary and I even switched genres if it seemed to be good idea. I love to create characters even if there is no real story, for RP, for drawings, whatever. But if there should be real story I think first about the plot - see if I make up a romance, it clarifies itself somehow along the process who are the actors in that.
I don't know if this is right thing to do, but do it this way  (and I suck, because I can't set up the plots, it's always epic struggle).

Well, everyone approaches story-writing a little different, I see nothing wrong with yours though. It varies for me by story, personally. (( IO started off without a specific Warden in mind, and I had to pick one to make all the random ideas link up. I picked Alley for the role in part because several of those ideas involved an active romance, and Alleyana has been a lot of different things... but she's never been a love interest! ))

But yeah, no disagreements here.

kayleighrawr wrote...

Seriously. WTF bioware forum. This
is possibly the weirdest thread I've entered. I love it though.

That GIF is totally hypnotic. *stares* o______o

Edit: Okay, now it's giving me a headache, haha. NO MORE STARING FOR ME. Or techno music at this hour, for that matter.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 07 avril 2010 - 11:03 .