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[Nonvita]

Addai67 wrote...

Sannox wrote...

Well, the sex thing put me off Alistair. When his approval goes down if you ask him to the tent. I was gobsmacked! That never happens in real life, and if it did, I would be out of there. It was really quite unpleasant. A refusal is bad enough, but the disapproval - yuck. I never really got over that.

That happens only if you ask him a 2nd time after his first refusal.  I interpret it as him not liking that you're pushing him to do something he's already said he's not ready to do.  Similar to the way Zevran and Morrigan will both yell at you if they're at their refusal stage (which for their romances happens after it hits Love).

I didn't really take offense to it, either. He's really nervous, so pushing him on it isn't helping.

I dunno, Alistair's just Alistair. I like him, I enjoyed his romance once, though probably more for the weird CE/Alistair Romeo & Juliet thing that was going on. Eh. Give the guy a break.


Top of the page and not even one mention of Zevran. *really needs more Zevran screenshots*

Oh no, he's giving me the sad face!

Modifié par Nonvita, 07 avril 2010 - 06:41 .

[sami jo]

Does anyone know if it is even possible to get any of the other LIs to +100 love and keep them there to the end *without* going to the tent (aside from the DR)?  I know Allistair disapproves if you turn him down when he offers, but I don't know what happens after that, and I never turned Lel down and stayed in a romance with her.  Actually, does Morrigan even offer?

I ask in part because of the "Romance without sex" thread.  The OP has his/her knickers in a twist because sex seems to be the be-all/end-all for the romances in DAO and there isn't much interaction after the tent (clearly hasn't done the Zev or Morrigan romances).  I would really have to snicker if the ones who are the easiest to get to the tent are the only ones you don't *have* to tent.

[SurrealSadi]

sami jo wrote...

Does anyone know if it is even possible to get any of the other LIs to +100 love and keep them there to the end *without* going to the tent (aside from the DR)?  I know Allistair disapproves if you turn him down when he offers, but I don't know what happens after that, and I never turned Lel down and stayed in a romance with her.  Actually, does Morrigan even offer?

I ask in part because of the "Romance without sex" thread.  The OP has his/her knickers in a twist because sex seems to be the be-all/end-all for the romances in DAO and there isn't much interaction after the tent (clearly hasn't done the Zev or Morrigan romances).  I would really have to snicker if the ones who are the easiest to get to the tent are the only ones you don't *have* to tent.

Yes, Morrigan offers. It's the "Tis cold in my tent" line.

[Nonvita]

sami jo wrote...

I would really have to snicker if the ones who are the easiest to get to the tent are the only ones you don't *have* to tent.

You don't have to tent Alistair, either. He'll fall in love with you once he's given you his rose. As for the sex, he'll disapprove a bit that one time, but you can get his approval back up easily. That said, if you do that, you'll be handing him over to Morrigan for his first encounter. Or dying. But either way, the situation doesn't scream "ROMANTIC!" to me.

Edit: Why on earth did I just say "encounter"? What kind of stupid replacement term for sex is that?  As always, posting at work is a bad idea.

Modifié par Nonvita, 07 avril 2010 - 06:45 .

[Sannox]

Addai67 wrote...

Sannox wrote...

Well, the sex thing put me off Alistair. When his approval goes down if you ask him to the tent. I was gobsmacked! That never happens in real life, and if it did, I would be out of there. It was really quite unpleasant. A refusal is bad enough, but the disapproval - yuck. I never really got over that.

That happens only if you ask him a 2nd time after his first refusal.  I interpret it as him not liking that you're pushing him to do something he's already said he's not ready to do.  Similar to the way Zevran and Morrigan will both yell at you if they're at their refusal stage (which for their romances happens after it hits Love) and you ask them to the tent again.

Well, Zevran's refusal is different (I haven't tried Morrigan's).  He will talk about it and apologise for the way he's acting and have sex straight after.  Alistair won't unless you give him gifts (in my playthrough, anyway.  I should maybe try to set it up so the sex/gift connection isn't so blatant). 

And, I know it might be different depending on when you do what, but Zevran's refusal came after a long time of haing sex with his approval going up.   He's already made it clear that he approves of sex with you and approves of you asking for sex.   So you already know his refusal is about something else.   

[Sannox]

Aroihkin wrote...
Also, is it just me, or is Zev's "circus clothes" when paired with Oggy for the escape way better looking on him than his epilogue stuff? I mean, *way* better. Leave it to Zevran to make purple pants look good.

No, it's not just you.

[Aroihkin]

Sannox wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...
Also, is it just me, or is Zev's "circus clothes" when paired with Oggy for the escape way better looking on him than his epilogue stuff? I mean, *way* better. Leave it to Zevran to make purple pants look good.

No, it's not just you.

Dark jewel tones with gold accent really suits him.

...Also, anyone notice that when Zev mentions no one's given him a reason to not kill Anora... no one exactly jumps to give him a reason? Even Eamon is like "...aaaanyway... :whistle:".

[Sannox]

Nonvita wrote...
I didn't really take offense to it, either. He's really nervous, so pushing him on it isn't helping.

But not so nervous that he won't go if you give him gifts.   He just wants more from you before he's willing to do it.  (He's still nervous when he does do it, which is fine.  But when he refuses, he just doesn't approve of you enough).

[SurrealSadi]

Aroihkin wrote...

Sannox wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...
Also, is it just me, or is Zev's "circus clothes" when paired with Oggy for the escape way better looking on him than his epilogue stuff? I mean, *way* better. Leave it to Zevran to make purple pants look good.

No, it's not just you.

Dark jewel tones with gold accent really suits him.

...Also, anyone notice that when Zev mentions no one's given him a reason to not kill Anora... no one exactly jumps to give him a reason? Even Eamon is like "...aaaanyway... :whistle:".

Yeah, I did notice that. I wonder why....

[Ramante]

2 screenies, one Zevran and one funny Oghren line.





One other thing, I was going through the wallpapers that come with Windows 7, is it just me or does this chick looks a lot like my human mage?

[Addai]

Sannox wrote...

Well, Zevran's refusal is different (I haven't tried Morrigan's).  He will talk about it and apologise for the way he's acting and have sex straight after.  Alistair won't unless you give him gifts (in my playthrough, anyway.  I should maybe try to set it up so the sex/gift connection isn't so blatant). 

It's different because the characters are different and the reasons for refusal.  Zevran is working through his issues, Alistair is not yet at the stage where he's in love enough, and in his first refusal he explains why, that it has to have a certain meaning for him.  So you know why he's refusing, too.

These are basically storytelling devices.  Zevran and Morrigan will both jump into bed quite early because sex is mainly about pleasure for them at that point.  Later on, they refuse when they realize that it has come to mean something else.  Alistair starts out with an idea of sex as mainly about expressing romantic commitment.

Does Leliana ever refuse sexytime or is she just raring to go??

[Cuddlezarro]

Does Leliana ever refuse sexytime or is she just raring to go??

Leliena is like Morrigan once shes in the mood(which is 91 love IIRC) the next time you talk to her she will try tempt you into her bed... and if you play it right she will try tempt you with pudding...wrestling(no thats not a joke)

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 07 avril 2010 - 06:53 .

[ejoslin]

Sannox is right; Zevran's refusal IS different. First of all, you will most likely gain approval, not lose it if you're not already at 100 love. And he doesn't take offense at more than one offer. Really, if you haven't been to the tent with him and you ask him for the first time then, he's more surprised than the warden that he's turning you down. And if you don't push it, he's really very nice about it (though if you don't push it, you don't gain approval either).

Alistair will disapprove -10 if you don't go to the tent with him when he asks, which I find a bit obnoxious seeing as he wants to be given space but if you're ready before him, but he doesn't feel the same if he's ready before you. -10 is like, well, 3 or more murders of people he doesn't know. That actually knocks him out of love and back into adore (Love threshold is 91+). However, you can get him back to 100 with gifts.

Zevran, you don't have to take an approval hit at all, but you can if you make it a bit personal.

What says it most, have sex with Alistair, your highest approval is +7. With Zevran, the highest is +23 if you ask him first. I know who likes it more!

Edit: Leliana has to be at 91+ Love to go to the tent.  She asks.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 avril 2010 - 06:56 .

[Nonvita]

Sannox wrote...

But not so nervous that he won't go if you give him gifts.   He just wants more from you before he's willing to do it.  (He's still nervous when he does do it, which is fine.  But when he refuses, he just doesn't approve of you enough).

Eh, but the whole gifts thing in the game is just weird to begin with. You could say the same about any of the other characters, too (including Zevran).
Personally, I space out how often I talk to companions and give them gifts. I only give them their specific gifts, as well, because I RP it as being "time spent together" and not just handing them random junk found on the road. So for me, Alistair is refusing when he feels uncomfortable--he doesn't feel far enough into the relationship to have sex yet. Not until he feels like the relationship is solid enough will he do it, and hounding him about it before that time comes is putting unpleasant pressure on him.

You can treat it as though throwing gifts on him was what got him to that point, or you can treat it as you've become more attached and caring with each other. Problems with gifts and things are just inherent problems of the approval system itself, not the Alistair romance.

Edit: It just doesn't seem fair to compare Alistair and Zevran's sex approvals. They're approving/disapproving for different reasons that are only really apparent if you're actually invested in the romance. It's easy to get Zevran to disapprove if you turn down his massage offer, as well, so saying that Alistair is wrong for disapproving isn't really fair. I get that he handles it on his own terms, which is a bit self-centered of him, but 1. you know he's a virgin (and a little older than most other virgins, which is extra pressure), and 2. you know he only wants to have sex when it's something special. So you know that turning him down when he's finally ready is more of a slap in the face than with Zevran.

And none of this is to say I like Alistair's romance more. Because I don't...

Modifié par Nonvita, 07 avril 2010 - 07:02 .

[sami jo]

Sannox wrote...

Nonvita wrote...
I didn't really take offense to it, either. He's really nervous, so pushing him on it isn't helping.

But not so nervous that he won't go if you give him gifts.   He just wants more from you before he's willing to do it.  (He's still nervous when he does do it, which is fine.  But when he refuses, he just doesn't approve of you enough).

I RP that aspect as him wanting the relationship to be more established before being intimate than straight up approval, which would be in keeping with his views on sex.  I also would RP his disapproval when refused as it being a blow to his ego since he is so very insecure in romance as opposed to him disapproving of waiting.  It is possible to get his approval high enough without gifts if you haul him everywhere and to things he approves of and have lots of warm fuzzy talks with him, but it is much more difficult.  It's also possible to get him to +100 with only his two plot gifts, but again, he has to be all but glued to you and you must do everything that gets approval from him. 

And then there is Zev, who is so ridiculously happy to be wanted that you can get him that high without the romance and without a single gift.  One of the many reasons he makes my PC feel far more special than any of the other companions. 

Edited because I really need to sleep tonight.

Modifié par sami jo, 07 avril 2010 - 07:02 .

[ejoslin]

MorGothic wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: Yet ANOTHER post that needs to go bye bye!

Editing before I click reply is cheating....

Well, you ARE always free to answer the original question! 

[Addai]

ejoslin wrote...
Sannox is right; Zevran's refusal IS different. First of all, you will most likely gain approval, not lose it if you're not already at 100 love.

I'm talking about where he yells at you to not focus on him etc.  If you don't first have the conversation about what has changed and ask him again, as I recall, he yells at you again.  I don't think there's an approval loss, but he is obviously angry that you're asking again.

Alistair will disapprove -10 if you don't go to the tent with him when he asks, which I find a bit obnoxious seeing as he wants to be given space but if you're ready before him, but he doesn't feel the same if he's ready before you. -10 is like, well, 3 or more murders of people he doesn't know. That actually knocks him out of love and back into adore (Love threshold is 91+). However, you can get him back to 100 with gifts.

Well like I said, the character is different.  Disapproval doesn't always express an NPC's opinion of the Warden, as I see it, but their happiness/unhappiness about a situation.  Alistair being insecure about romance, he takes it very hard whenever an overture is rejected.

Let's not forget that Zevran's approval drops can be dramatic if he's rejected.

What says it most, have sex with Alistair, your highest approval is +7. With Zevran, the highest is +23 if you ask him first. I know who likes it more!

All of Alistair's approval bumps are small, probably because there are more of them and lots of gifts.   You can't honestly argue that it doesn't mean anything to Alistair when you sleep with him?  His after-talks include him saying that no one had ever made him feel that way, that he hopes you're his last, etc.

[ejoslin]

Really, I would think Alistair would approve more than Zevran of the first time. I think with Alistair there's a lot more mixed up in the whole things than just his feelings. Once you two have sex, or really, once he falls in love, he is forced to face some ugly facts. Up until that point, it was beautiful, sweet, emotional, but after love, reality hits hard. With Zevran, his reality is different -- once he falls in love and can reconcile himself to that, there's no reason he can't devote himself fully. But I guess the real difference is, he has not choice BUT to devote himself.

[Sannox]

Addai67 wrote...

Sannox wrote...

Well, Zevran's refusal is different (I haven't tried Morrigan's).  He will talk about it and apologise for the way he's acting and have sex straight after.  Alistair won't unless you give him gifts (in my playthrough, anyway.  I should maybe try to set it up so the sex/gift connection isn't so blatant). 

It's different because the characters are different and the reasons for refusal.  Zevran is working through his issues, Alistair is not yet at the stage where he's in love enough, and in his first refusal he explains why, that it has to have a certain meaning for him.  So you know why he's refusing, too.

These are basically storytelling devices.  Zevran and Morrigan will both jump into bed quite early because sex is mainly about pleasure for them at that point.  Later on, they refuse when they realize that it has come to mean something else.  Alistair starts out with an idea of sex as mainly about expressing romantic commitment.

Does Leliana ever refuse sexytime or is she just raring to go??

Well, I suppose you do know why Alistair's refusing and it's that you don't mean enough to him for him to have sex with you - he doesn't approve enough, you don't yet meet whatever standard he's set, or he just doesn't feel enough for you as a friend/lover (until you give him gifts).  So it's not the most flattering or self-esteem boosting of reasons.  It doesn't help that it comes (or did for me) after you seem to have been through quite a lot together and after your PC has been supporting him (Duncan, Goldanna) without asking anything in return, and that he knows about your nightmares.  It might not be so bad if you had just met. 

I've found it difficult to get round that, even though I do want to do an Alistair romance sometime, and there are other things I like about him. 

Even Cullen's refusal of the very mildest sexual advance felt more passionate (I feel SO much for you that I have to run away!).   If Alistair was conflicted about sex but felt compelled to do it anyway, now that I could really go for.   Not in real life,because it would be rather pervy and complicated, but in game it would definitely float my boat. 

[ejoslin]

Addai67 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Sannox is right; Zevran's refusal IS different. First of all, you will most likely gain approval, not lose it if you're not already at 100 love.

I'm talking about where he yells at you to not focus on him etc.  If you don't first have the conversation about what has changed and ask him again, as I recall, he yells at you again.  I don't think there's an approval loss, but he is obviously angry that you're asking again.

Alistair will disapprove -10 if you don't go to the tent with him when he asks, which I find a bit obnoxious seeing as he wants to be given space but if you're ready before him, but he doesn't feel the same if he's ready before you. -10 is like, well, 3 or more murders of people he doesn't know. That actually knocks him out of love and back into adore (Love threshold is 91+). However, you can get him back to 100 with gifts.

Well like I said, the character is different.  Disapproval doesn't always express an NPC's opinion of the Warden, as I see it, but their happiness/unhappiness about a situation.  Alistair being insecure about romance, he takes it very hard whenever an overture is rejected.

Let's not forget that Zevran's approval drops can be dramatic if he's rejected.

What says it most, have sex with Alistair, your highest approval is +7. With Zevran, the highest is +23 if you ask him first. I know who likes it more!

All of Alistair's approval bumps are small, probably because there are more of them and lots of gifts.   You can't honestly argue that it doesn't mean anything to Alistair when you sleep with him?  His after-talks include him saying that no one had ever made him feel that way, that he hopes you're his last, etc.

I understood when you were talking about.  Zevran gives approval when you ask him, even when he refuses you.  Even when he yells.  That's an approval gain.  

Edit: Still, Addai67, Alistair does not approval of the sex in anyway near the way Zevran does, which includes the +1 every single time you go.  Game mechanic? Sure.  Does it mean a lot to Alistair? Of course.  Is it nearly as important to Alistair as it is to Zevran? I'd say no.  Is that a good or bad thing?  It's neither.

Second edit: Double checking the toolset shows this:

After he refuses the first time:
Warden: Is something wrong? (SET: APP_ZEVRAN_INC_VLOW)
Zevran: I do not wish to talk about it. (uncomfortable)
Warden: Are you sure? You look like you do want to talk about it. (SET: APP_ZEVRAN_INC_LOW)
Zevran: Enough! I said... I am not interested. Can you not understand that? (a bit angry and upset -- he is out of his depth)
Zevran: There are other things for you to focus on besides me, I am certain. Do... do those. (upset, awkward)

That should net you at least +2 approval.

Second conversation, he doesn't yell at all.

Modifié par ejoslin, 07 avril 2010 - 07:22 .

[Addai]

Nonvita wrote...

So for me, Alistair is refusing when he feels uncomfortable--he doesn't feel far enough into the relationship to have sex yet. Not until he feels like the relationship is solid enough will he do it, and hounding him about it before that time comes is putting unpleasant pressure on him.

You can treat it as though throwing gifts on him was what got him to that point, or you can treat it as you've become more attached and caring with each other. Problems with gifts and things are just inherent problems of the approval system itself, not the Alistair romance.

Yes, if the gift thing is weird with one NPC it's weird with all of them.  It's all in how you roleplay it.  With my HNF character, I imagined that she was surprised that Alistair refused her, but it set her back on her heels and actually increased her interest.  I had RPed her as sleeping around a bit- the Dairren/Iona thing at the beginning and your dialogues with Fergus set the stage for that- so it occurred to her that no man had ever cared enough about her that he would not just take her up on such a bald invitation.  The fact that A. wanted it to mean more impressed her.

OTOH, for my mage character who was inexperienced and shy, being refused by Alistair was a bit of a blow.  Then again, later on (after she broke it off with A.) when Zevran offered the massage, she refused him at first.  It wasn't at all that she wasn't interested... she was intimidated.  Much like Alistair is.

Modifié par Addai67, 07 avril 2010 - 07:20 .

[sami jo]

@Addai: I agree that it is more a function of different character's outlooks than how they "feel" about the PC. The huge approvals and losses with Zev, to me, are indicative of the fact that the PC is his whole world. He has made a commitment to you personally and you literally have the power of life and death over him. And he has never had the option to set boundaries.

Allistair, at least in that sense, is more well-rounded. He loves the PC but he never sees himself as her possession. He allows/encourages her to lead, but they are essentially equals; and he has other duties looming over him. He knows from the beginning that he might well be shoved onto the throne, and he knows what that would likely mean for the romance. He isn't free to let the PC be his whole world.

Edited: because I am capable of writing grammatically correct sentences.

Modifié par sami jo, 07 avril 2010 - 07:22 .

[Charsen]

Ramante wrote...
One other thing, I was going through the wallpapers that come with Windows 7, is it just me or does this chick looks a lot like my human mage?

Looks like Antonia Bayle from EQ2. Queen of the hippies (good side).

[Addai]

Sannox wrote...

If Alistair was conflicted about sex but felt compelled to do it anyway, now that I could really go for.  

That's basically what happens if you invite him to the tent and his approval is high enough (I can't recall exact approval numbers).  He IS still conflicted, but he agrees to do it.

As I said above, it's all in the perspective you take.  If you see it as "I respect you enough that I want to wait until this means something," then it's far from a slam on your PC.  Even my male character is challenged by Alistair's attitude (which comes out in the lamppost dialogue with male PCs, too) compared to his own more playboy approach to women.

Anyway... 'nuff said on this topic...

[Nonvita]

Charsen wrote...

Looks like Antonia Bayle from EQ2. Queen of the hippies (good side).

For being Queen, you'd think she could afford a little more fabric for that dress.