35177 réponses à ce sujet

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

I guess part of my thing is I've done more playthroughs than I care to admit (over 10, but under 20 at this point) and you can't play the game the same way every time or else it would be horribly boring. But part of making the not-good decisions is finding reasons and trying to see both sides of the coin so to speak. Like this game, for the first time, I let the dragon cult live. Normally they die and the dragon along with them. But I want to see how this influences Genetivi (whom I sent home) and the pilgrims and the chantry.

There would be no point in making the same decisions every game. It's fun trying to put yourself into a different skin each time!

Edit: And leaving Alistair at the gates when he's hostile is pretty funny.  When he asked why, I told him it was because I didn't like him.  I didn't tell him to ****** off though (another choice) because he was being decent.  He is going to be king, after all.  And it wasn't as hard as I thought it would be to talk him into the ritual.

I don't know how you do it. I still haven't finished an entire 2nd playthrough... Not to mention, as hard as I try to ignore it, I am in school, and I do have to get my work done.

I'm trying to make my characters very different, but I've found it hard. I tend to respond most to characters that fall in a certain framework (in D&D games it was always the Good-Neutral/Neutral-Chaotic range), so getting out of that is a little hard. It takes a lot of RPing to get beyond what *I* think is right and accept what the character thinks is right. Obviously, (and especially in this game) that's a big part of the fun, but it takes a lot of fleshing out before I can reach that level.

That said, my HN is a little more ruthless than my last character, and she will likely save the anvil as the pragmatic option. (She tends to get along fairly well with Morrigan, if that says anything...)

I also have another character planned that I'm not sure I can get all the way through. She's a mage, and she's a bit naive, and dumb, and chantry-loving (despite the many reasons not to be). She wants so badly to protect everyone that she's not always able to see the bigger picture. As in, she blindly went along with Jowan's plan because she truly believed in their friendship, and the thought that he actually could be a blood mage never even crossed her mind. Now, I like the possibilities with the character- the fact that she will royally mess up some very very important things by trying to be so forgiving--but I have a really hard time actually playing her (and giving all my money away in the process, dagnabbit). I'm just too used to winning every persuasion check, killing off annoying characters, and thieving and backstabbing my way through things...

[ejoslin]

Oh wow, Alistair at hostile, so never meeting Goldanna, and becoming chancellor has given me, in my opinion, the best epilogue card yet!  

I love it. Ok, this playthrough was definitely worth it, as difficult as a story it was.

Edit: And it's amazing that after so many play throughs I still get new epilogue cards.

Second edit: Actually, this play through gave a lot of new epilogue cards.  In some ways, Ferelden is a much darker place.

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 février 2010 - 10:20 .

[Cuddlezarro]

spoil me for the hostile alistair/chancellor ending every time I do an I hate alistair playthrough he tends to become a drunk or just flat out dead

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 01 février 2010 - 09:46 .

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

Oh wow, Alistair at hostile, so never meeting Goldanna, and becoming chancellor has given me, in my opinion, the best epilogue card yet! The Warden is definitely the ruler of the nation, and when she goes, everything grinds to a stop.

I love it. Ok, this playthrough was definitely worth it, as difficult as a story it was.

Edit: And it's amazing that after so many play throughs I still get new epilogue cards.

Second edit: Actually, this play through gave a lot of new epilogue cards.  In some ways, Ferelden is a much darker place.

Arg, now you've gone and made me reconsider my plans! My HNF was originally rather hostile toward Alistair, but because I feel like she'd leap at the chance to be Queen I restarted her to make her a little more forgiving (and avoid the major approval drops). But I wasn't aware the Chancellor held so much power! Hmmm, perhaps that route would suit my Dalish....
Assuming I can even get through my HN and mage playthroughs, and DNF far enough to see that darn Zevran kiss first...

[ejoslin]

Oh, I'm going to see this playthrough if Alistair will marry her at "warm." I already know he will at friendly and at adore and at love -- but I'll know if this particular epilogue card is caused by hostile or by never meeting Goldanna. I suspect the latter. And then one more human noble seeing if he'll marry her at hostile or at least neutral.

But I never have seen this particular card before, and the only differences are never meeting Goldanna and being hostile. I think I'm going to do a game without doing anyone's personal quests at all, except, of course, the unavoidable one. Then maybe sacrifice myself and see what happens. My guess is, bad things.

Edit: And HNF marrying Alistair for political reasons is already viewed as the ruler.  It's a great ending, but that combined with this particular card . . . Oh, I hope it works!

Modifié par ejoslin, 01 février 2010 - 10:00 .

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

spoil me for the hostile alistair/chancellor ending every time I do an I hate alistair playthrough he tends to become a drunk or just flat out dead

END GAME SPOILER.  READ AT YOUR OWN RISK

My elf made him king because the one person she disliked more than him was Anora.  She couldn't believe that being told that Anora had ruled Ferelden for the past five years was an argument to keep her in power -- that she ended up the real ruler, to the point where Ferelden couldn't run without her, was just the unexpected icing on the cake.

[AndreaDraco]

Side Note: I just resumed an old save to unlock the Witch Gone Wild achievement, and...



... ARGH! The 'cold tent' line is just dreadful, not because of the line itself, but Morrigan's voice - which I usually find spot-on - was genuinely terrifying

[jenovan]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Side Note: I just resumed an old save to unlock the Witch Gone Wild achievement, and...

... ARGH! The 'cold tent' line is just dreadful, not because of the line itself, but Morrigan's voice - which I usually find spot-on - was genuinely terrifying

Hahahaha... I thought it was just hilarious because it sounds so fake -- as if she knows how ridiculously contrived the line is and is trying it anyway. ;D

Now, her giggle when you talk to her and she's in love with you... that's terrifying.   I'd so much rather listen to Zevran, but I can't think of how my mage PC would end up with him, yet.

[Cuddlezarro]

AndreaDraco wrote...

Side Note: I just resumed an old save to unlock the Witch Gone Wild achievement, and...

... ARGH! The 'cold tent' line is just dreadful, not because of the line itself, but Morrigan's voice - which I usually find spot-on - was genuinely terrifying

I dont think even Claudia Blacks incredibly sexy voice could save the  "its cold and alone in my tent" line

really Claudia Black is pretty much the biggest reason I like Morrigan >_>

[Inzhuna]

Returning to the topic! I've got a question about Zev.

I read that Zevran tells you that a Warden has to die to slay the Archdemon even before Riordan does, if you're in romance. When does that happen? I romanced Zev and never had that conversation.

Thanks in advance)

[Creature 1]

I can't remember which conversation route that is, but I think he's speaking generally that the hero always dies. He doesn't know for certain that a Gray Warden must die--he actually says that if the hero has a sidekick then the sidekick usually dies, said sidekick being himself.

[ejoslin]

It is the conversation just after the first offering of the earring. IF you tell him you consider him a friend (instead of more than a friend), he will tell you that he is going to stick it out to the end as someone has to prevent your untimely death. If you tell him that he doesn't have to die, he says that HE'S not the one who is going to die, but the Grey Wardens always die. The hero always dies, unless the hero has a sidekick. Then the side kick dies.



The thing is, I'm sure that the stories of the Grey Wardens dying to end the blight ARE the things of legends, and the Grey Wardens are the heroes he's referring to. I didn't take the conversation as being about heroes in general, but about the legends of the Grey Wardens. But others see it differently. However, Zevran IS the first person to tell her that the Grey Wardens die ending the blight. He just doesn't know the specifics.

[Mistersunshine]

David Gaider wrote...

caldur06 wrote...
Oh wow. I didn't expect the writers to really be glancing this deep in a thread. If I offended, I'm sorry, reading back I realize my tone was pretty harsh, and I truly do wish I'd started out more even-toned. Anyways, I know that any insult was definitely not intentional, and that you (of all people) don't have one specific stereotype of glbt people (yeah, I bought the book!). I don't want a political statement and I'm not looking for a fight where there's none to be had! It's just that the, well, for want of a better term, Depraved Bisexual (and I swear I didn't even know Zevran's name was on there till I glanced at it just now) is a terribly common trope, and one that annoys me pretty much because it is so commonplace.

I'm not sure I agree with the term "depraved", but either way I'm not so certain it's commonplace. While that site calls them tropes the fact of the matter is there is a giant list of them -- so many, in fact, that you couldn't help but assign a great many of them to just about every creative work produced. Those are just simple categories.

If one wants to break down a character or a plot into generalizations so that they fit into a category, that's fine by me. You can do that for almost anything, however, and considering you'd need to simply disregard anything about that character or plot which doesn't match the category I'm not sure it's that helpful.

Zevran isn't a psychotic killer by any means, though he is an assassin. Part of the inspiration, if you must know, came from a report I read about some modern spy agencies preferring to recruit homosexuals as assassins because they typically do not form long-term relationships (which add complication to their existence). I wondered how this might make that person feel, and what would happen to someone that lived that way and suddenly found themselves falling in love -- something their entire existence tells them is a bad idea.

Is he thin? Sure. He's an elf, and they all have the same body. Is he bisexual because he's an elf? Not at all -- the choice to make him an elf came from his background... in some ways he's a victim of his circumstances, which are pretty bad for all elves, and instead of whining about it he's rolled with the punches. He's amoral, but I'm not sure that assassin-with-a-heart-of-gold would somehow be better in terms of breaking stereotypes. His sexuality is part of what he is, but it doesn't define him -- should it? A lot of what he is comes from him being an assassin. If we made every decision regarding his character about his sexuality alone, wouldn't that define the very essence of a stereotype?

I get being sensitive about the portrayal of the LGBT community -- boy, do I -- but suggesting that someone like Zevran must go completely against type or it's offensive is laying some pretty heavy expectations on him. Like I said, for my part I was just happy that we got to include some content for a very small audience -- something we don't normally get to do. I wanted to make him fun and flirty, and certainly didn't think that anything that made him appear less than butch or didn't go against type in every way might be construed as offensive. Considering the number of thankful emails I'm received from LGBT players who did enjoy him I don't really think I was so off the mark. 

Also, the epilogue telling me that Zevran followed his Grey Warden wherever she went (my character was male) just made me frown, and wonder who his new lady friend was.

That is an unfortunate bug in the ending (one of many, I understand) -- which I thought should be obvious, no? Unless the implication is that we would purposefully exclude a gay male player after an entire game of inclusion? Doesn't that strike you as a bit odd?

This was a great post, David.  Your answers on the forums continue to impress!

[Inzhuna]

Oh, thanks for answers! I thought it was a specific dialog I was missing. I'll have to try that option. Does it end the romance, though, if you say you consider him a friend?

[ejoslin]

Inzhuna wrote...

Oh, thanks for answers! I thought it was a specific dialog I was missing. I'll have to try that option. Does it end the romance, though, if you say you consider him a friend?

Not at all, not right there.  He's still sorting out his own feelings there.  It's not until you get to the gates where calling him a friend turns off the romance.

[Cuddlezarro]

ok I have a question I for whatever reason want to try another female run through but this time even though I still have like 3 games to complete

what do you think would be the most different take on the Zevran romance from my Male Noble Dwarf/human playthroughs

I was thinking female city elf or female casteless dwarf since both are pretty much in the gutters of their respective society and have a somewhat harsh life (well an incredibly harsh life if your casteless)

and on a completely unrelated topic I managed to do the undead siege of redcliff without losing a single militiamen some how AND kept that stingy barkeeper alive despite his attempts to run off by himself and get killed (no really he would for some reason run to where the undead spawned) while using the nightmare plus mod... im still wondering how I did it :3

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 02 février 2010 - 06:34 .

[Namirsolo]

ejoslin wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

Oh, thanks for answers! I thought it was a specific dialog I was missing. I'll have to try that option. Does it end the romance, though, if you say you consider him a friend?

Not at all, not right there.  He's still sorting out his own feelings there.  It's not until you get to the gates where calling him a friend turns off the romance.

Is that only available if you leave him at the gates?

[ejoslin]

Namirsolo wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Inzhuna wrote...

Oh, thanks for answers! I thought it was a specific dialog I was missing. I'll have to try that option. Does it end the romance, though, if you say you consider him a friend?

Not at all, not right there.  He's still sorting out his own feelings there.  It's not until you get to the gates where calling him a friend turns off the romance.

Is that only available if you leave him at the gates?

Yes.  Which is out of the question for me to do!

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ok I have a question I for whatever reason want to try another female run through but this time even though I still have like 3 games to complete

what do you think would be the most different take on the Zevran romance from my Male Noble Dwarf/human playthroughs

I was thinking female city elf or female casteless dwarf since both are pretty much in the gutters of their respective society and have a somewhat harsh life (well an incredibly harsh life if your casteless)

and on a completely unrelated topic I managed to do the undead siege of redcliff without losing a single militiamen some how AND kept that stingy barkeeper alive despite his attempts to run off by himself and get killed (no really he would for some reason run to where the undead spawned) while using the nightmare plus mod... im still wondering how I did it :3

Zevran has no reaction when he meets the Dwarf casteless' mother.  The city elf and Zevran has a lot in common and you do get some interesting dialog in the alienage.  That said, both I think really work and can relate to him quite well.  Maybe the dwarf a bit more as she has to take care of business occasionally herself.  I think the female playthrough, no matter what you choose, will be the biggest change for you.  The whole game has a different feeling playing the other gender.  My next playthrough will probably be dwarf casteless because I really liked some of her dialog choices in Ostagar (she can come off as a very good natured, easy going thug when talking to Alistair).  I don't like the short legs of the Dwarf, but the attraction between the dwarf and Zevran is probably the most apparent and intense appearing once you get to the point where you can kiss.

And I'm impressed on the Redcliff arc!  I have trouble keeping them all alive at a lower level on hard.

[Sabriana]

It's out of the question to leave him at the gates for my PCs as well. That place is one the F5/F9 places - every time.

I wonder if I can get spare keyboard keys. F5 and F9 seem to get a bit wobbly, lol.

Edited to add:
I've never edited so often as in these threads, rofl. However, I'm one of those who does the Redcliffe arch fist every time. Zevran is also the reason I'll never do the tower without him. My PCs need to see his nightmare, and hear his glip "wood nymph" denial later on.

Same goes for the "Ashes" quest. I want my PCs hear the Guardian/Zevran conversation.

Modifié par Sabriana, 02 février 2010 - 12:03 .

[ejoslin]

I have to shake it up. I like Zevran in Redcliff so much, helping me intimidate the elf in the bar, cheering me on when I shake down Lloyd . . . But I like him with the Dalish, when they're getting all over my Warden's case and Zevran lets them know it's worse when you live among them. And him pleading for the Dalish (I always go that route just to hear how compassionate he really can be). And yes, the fade. And the Gauntlet. Orzammar he's a must have; it's where I like him the most.



I am hoping for a mod where if you let the guards go in Lothering and tell them to report back to Loghain, you can get the Zevran cut scene. Because I like taking him everywhere!

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

I have to shake it up. I like Zevran in Redcliff so much, helping me intimidate the elf in the bar, cheering me on when I shake down Lloyd . . . But I like him with the Dalish, when they're getting all over my Warden's case and Zevran lets them know it's worse when you live among them. And him pleading for the Dalish (I always go that route just to hear how compassionate he really can be). And yes, the fade. And the Gauntlet. Orzammar he's a must have; it's where I like him the most.

I am hoping for a mod where if you let the guards go in Lothering and tell them to report back to Loghain, you can get the Zevran cut scene. Because I like taking him everywhere!

Rofl and double rofl. That's quite uncanny, because I'm hoping the same thing. What harm could a little mod do that disables the possibility to kill the soldiers, and eliminates the option to just kick them out, having them obligated to carry the GWs message to Loghain.

The way it is, I have to pick where he is least vocal, and offers the least insight into his depths. Redcliffe is good, but I just can't leave him out of the tower, Orzammar, the Urn, and least of all the dalish. He's an elf, after all, and reveals so much through the "What's your opinion on the dalish?" option.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

I have to shake it up. I like Zevran in Redcliff so much, helping me intimidate the elf in the bar, cheering me on when I shake down Lloyd . . . But I like him with the Dalish, when they're getting all over my Warden's case and Zevran lets them know it's worse when you live among them. And him pleading for the Dalish (I always go that route just to hear how compassionate he really can be). And yes, the fade. And the Gauntlet. Orzammar he's a must have; it's where I like him the most.

I am hoping for a mod where if you let the guards go in Lothering and tell them to report back to Loghain, you can get the Zevran cut scene. Because I like taking him everywhere!

Rofl and double rofl. That's quite uncanny, because I'm hoping the same thing. What harm could a little mod do that disables the possibility to kill the soldiers, and eliminates the option to just kick them out, having them obligated to carry the GWs message to Loghain.

The way it is, I have to pick where he is least vocal, and offers the least insight into his depths. Redcliffe is good, but I just can't leave him out of the tower, Orzammar, the Urn, and least of all the dalish. He's an elf, after all, and reveals so much through the "What's your opinion on the dalish?" option.

You get to ask him his opinion on the Dalish if you do the Dalish first, though, before you get him. And you have the added advantage of being able to give him his gloves very early off, as a way of building trust.  That conversation, heartbreaking.  I sometimes do that one first because he doesn't have a lot to say, but then I miss his plea for the elves.  

So yes, please, someone who mods . . . Zevran Lothering mod!

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 février 2010 - 12:28 .

[Sabriana]

Ohh, I didn't know that. I thought he had to be with her when she does the dalish quest.
Plea for the elves? When? In the werewolf lair?

I'm always reluctant to do things like that ever since my PC wasn't given the option to be swayed by Zevran when she agrees with Cullen. If she can be swayed, I definitely have to try that one.

Lol, you are bad, Ejoslin. You are bad, bad, bad. I'm not even finished with my current play-throughs (poor HN rogue being on ice, as well as my dalish), and yet, here I am, planning at least two more - one of them a dwarf, even though I've never played a dwarf as the main protagonist before.

[ejoslin]

Do the dwarf. Come to the dark side. I hate playing a dwarf too, but . . . oh, you need to do it! I'm doing a HN playthrough right now too where she won't visit Goldanna to see if Alistair will marry her at 100 warm and if so, being his chancellor too (the ending my poor city elf got was so worth all the crap she dealt with that game).

And yes, if you take the persuade check to kill the elves, IF Wynne isn't with you, he pleads for their lives.  And you can let him change your mind.

Modifié par ejoslin, 02 février 2010 - 12:49 .