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[Sabriana]

@ Walina

What exactly shocked you? I mean that sincerely, I really want to know.

Also, here's an exerpt from a forumite named Frostajulie. S/he posted this in another thread, but I found it quite touching and true:

Quote from Frostajulie

Zevran he had so many aww moments but the one that really made me feel so traumatized emotionally was when he explains that he was trained by the crows to have a certain openmindedness about sex. He was bought as a child and that brought rushing back to my mind all the stories of perverted old men buying young boys for sex slaves in the days of slavery and the idea that Zevran could have been used in such a manner by the crows or by marks of the crows so they could infiltrate their targets estates by peddling the flesh of young boys trained for sex. I just feel like Zev is one of the strongest and amazing characters in the whole story to be the kind of man he is after all the suffering he has been exposed to and forced to endure over the course of his life.

/Quote

[ejoslin]

I've been (over) thinking the whole slavery issue, and the fact that after Zevran chooses to stay with the warden (or does not ask to leave, more accurately, but it's obvious he wants to stay) how he says, "I am yours." Especially since the first time he says "I am yours," he is actually pledging his oath to you. And when Leliana calls him "your Zevran," if you try to say you don't own him, you can say in that conversation saying he's not your elven slave.

If you're not romancing Zevran, he asks to go stating he finally can have a freedom he's never known.

Anyway, to throw in my two cents, I think everyone who does the Zevran romance and likes it (and not everyone likes it so they see it as shallow and sleazy) pretty much talks about Zevran fighting falling in love, and how his feelings are deeper than even he will admit to himself. I actually like that the inspiration for that character falls very in line with that -- it was expressed VERY well in the dialogs.

Edit: Most of my girls play cards with Isabela, but I love seeing all scenarios.  And it does make me view Leliana in a different way for sure.

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 février 2010 - 02:08 .

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

I've been (over) thinking the whole slavery issue, and the fact that after Zevran chooses to stay with the warden (or does not ask to leave, more accurately, but it's obvious he wants to stay) how he says, "I am yours." Especially since the first time he says "I am yours," he is actually pledging his oath to you. And when Leliana calls him "your Zevran," if you try to say you don't own him, you can say in that conversation saying he's not your elven slave.

If you're not romancing Zevran, he asks to go stating he finally can have a freedom he's never known.

Anyway, to throw in my two cents, I think everyone who does the Zevran romance and likes it (and not everyone likes it so they see it as shallow and sleazy) pretty much talks about Zevran fighting falling in love, and how his feelings are deeper than even he will admit to himself. I actually like that the inspiration for that character falls very in line with that -- it was expressed VERY well in the dialogs.

Edit: Most of my girls play cards with Isabela, but I love seeing all scenarios.  And it does make me view Leliana in a different way for sure.

I agree, I think D. Gaider let himself be inspired by the right instance. It makes a lot of sense - assassins can't afford emotions, it makes them bad assassins. I'm pretty sure that people with antisocial personality disorders are quite high on the "must recruit" list for certain agencies, whatever their sexual preferences.

As for the bolded part (by me), and glad I am you do. Who else would I turn to for my burning questions.

[ejoslin]

LOL, Isabela is obviously a Grey Warden fangirl herself. "A Grey Warden? Ooooh, anything for you, sweet thing!"

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

LOL, Isabela is obviously a Grey Warden fangirl herself. "A Grey Warden? Ooooh, anything for you, sweet thing!"

Oh yeah. I love the way he sounds so proud when he tells Isabella that he's traveling with a Grey Warden. He really is too funny sometimes, but I also get that feeling of him being proud of her in one of his blurbs:
"Grey Warden, Darkspawn. Darkspawn, Grey Warden."


I seems he's always firmly on her side, he even gets ticked off at other's he thinks are dissing her. 
Like Murdock being all suprised that she's a woman, and then saying he doesn't want to be an ingrate. Love Zevran's answer:

"Thats good. The survival rate of ingrates is remarkably low, so I hear..."


I want that Zevran after Lothering mod. I hate having to sacrifice one of the questlines. I only got to hear that one once, because I found that the Redcliffe arch is the quickest, and has the least amount of insight in his character. Mind you, I'm not saying Redcliffe has none, but the fewest.

[ejoslin]

I do love Zevran in all the zones. I do think you get quite a bit of insight into Zevran in Redcliff. The way he speaks up to Bann Teagan, and as you mention Murdock, and even warns you that the oil may not be a good idea to Ser Perth (though you can't back out at that point -- I think that's a conversation bug since immediately before he says it you can say it's a bad idea). Then if you talk to Berwick (?) without talking to Lloyd or Bella, he helps you intimidate him, and of course, if you end up owning Lloyd's bar and he obviously finds it funny. He likes strong and ruthless, and that shows very clearly there.

Actually, and I know many will disagree with me, I think he has the least to say in the Gauntlet. At least, you hear nothing there that he doesn't freely tell you once he either adores your warden or is friendly with her (after Taliesen). It's not even the first clue that there's something that he regrets horribly -- when he refuses to tell you of that mission, you know something is going on.

But yes, a "Zevran after Lothering" mod would be the best solution!

Edit: In Redcliff, you see an elf who is not cowed by people at all.  He doesn't even have the Grey Warden title to force respect from people who would be expecting him to be a servant. 

Edit: But thinking about it, he has a lot to say in Haven.  Mainly joking in a grisly situation, but also you learn about the crows making blood sacrifices.  Hahaha, Zevran fans are certainly thrown a lot of bones!

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 février 2010 - 03:58 .

[_Aine_]

Sabriana wrote...

I seems he's always firmly on her side, he even gets ticked off at other's he thinks are dissing her. 
Like Murdock being all suprised that she's a woman, and then saying he doesn't want to be an ingrate. Love Zevran's answer:

"Thats good. The survival rate of ingrates is remarkably low, so I hear..."

It may sound strange but that was a high-squee moment for me.   Despite so many opportunities where you *expect* someone in your party to say something in retort to situations, for the most part they don't in any emotionally-charged context.  He did here, I think anyway, and it was a squee-worthy moment.  As Alistair would say, I looked like the cat that swallowed the pigeon for a good while afterwards.  My husband just rolls his eyes and laughs at me but *that* ability to stand up and be brash sometimes, especially when the situation calls for it, is very attractive to me.  

Believe it or not though, the most telling moment in the Zev-situation for me may have been slightly off....  It's hard to describe.  In one of my current playthroughs my elf is firmly with Alistair still, though she has already slept with and has fallen hard for Zev. (oops, her bad!)  I have been doing my darndest to keep him under 70 approval and then the whole Taliesen thing happened and of course he didn't fight with me ( or as he put it, didn't fight against Taliesen).  Well, I played it as my character was pretty put out and ticked off.  After the dialogue that transpired I got a very... sad feeling about Zev.  He was really broken up when I told him I wanted him to do what was best for him, and only stay if it was what he wanted to do.  Basically that he was free to leave if freedom was what he wanted.  I was stunned that not only did he stay but that he was emotionally unable to reconcile within himself that he was able to make his own decision....he looked actually distraught that he was given a choice.  

I am not explaining it very well at all, but it was a very touching and telling moment.   For all his casualness about so much, when it comes down to things, he is *very* loyal to his feelings of things.  Sometimes I think that his feelings are the only thing he really has ownership of, and is why he keeps them so well protected ( and denied at times )  

[Cuddlezarro]

but also you learn about the crows making blood sacrifices. Hahaha, Zevran fans are certainly thrown a lot of bones!

what Iv never gotten that dialogue when I went through Haven

[ejoslin]

You know, one dialog I had missed consistently was when Anora betrays you, because it really never occurred to me to tell Ser Cauthrien that that was Anora in the guard uniform until someone mentioned here that it gives Zevran some additional dialog. It's not romance dialog as he'll say it if the warden is not his romance partner, but it is serious squee anyway. He tells off Anora for throwing the Warden to the wolves and then asks for a reason why they shouldn't be cutting her throat and dumping her body in the river.  I love it that he would say that to the queen of Ferelden.

You don't get that second line if Alistair was not captured with you (tried it both ways). So from now on, my gray warden is dumb and tells Cauthrien that we're rescuing Anora. And turning off potion consumption in tactics so we lose the fight!  AND Alistair gets to tag along.

Edit: This is my way of agreeing with Shantisands' post here.  Zevran does NOT take someone insulting or hurting the warden well at all, and will stand up for her, no matter WHO it is.  Be it the mayor of a human town or even the queen of Ferelden.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 février 2010 - 04:59 .

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

but also you learn about the crows making blood sacrifices. Hahaha, Zevran fans are certainly thrown a lot of bones!

what Iv never gotten that dialogue when I went through Haven

In the first house you can enter, there's an altar covered in blood.  That's Zevran's comment about it.

[Cuddlezarro]

ejoslin wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

but also you learn about the crows making blood sacrifices. Hahaha, Zevran fans are certainly thrown a lot of bones!

what Iv never gotten that dialogue when I went through Haven

In the first house you can enter, there's an altar covered in blood.  That's Zevran's comment about it.

back to haven I go! (iv been wantng to see the secret graveyard there so now I have another excuse to go back)

also  agree on the Zevran after lothering mod I hate having to wait that long to get him

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 06 février 2010 - 05:00 .

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...

but also you learn about the crows making blood sacrifices. Hahaha, Zevran fans are certainly thrown a lot of bones!

what Iv never gotten that dialogue when I went through Haven

In the first house you can enter, there's an altar covered in blood.  That's Zevran's comment about it.

back to haven I go! (iv been wantng to see the secret graveyard there so now I have another excuse to go back)

also  agree on the Zevran after lothering mod I hate having to wait that long to get him

I'm not sure you'll get the dialog if you're going back, but the graveyard is great anyway.

[Sabriana]

shantisands wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I seems he's always firmly on her side, he even gets ticked off at other's he thinks are dissing her. 
Like Murdock being all suprised that she's a woman, and then saying he doesn't want to be an ingrate. Love Zevran's answer:

"Thats good. The survival rate of ingrates is remarkably low, so I hear..."

It may sound strange but that was a high-squee moment for me.   Despite so many opportunities where you *expect* someone in your party to say something in retort to situations, for the most part they don't in any emotionally-charged context.  He did here, I think anyway, and it was a squee-worthy moment.  As Alistair would say, I looked like the cat that swallowed the pigeon for a good while afterwards.  My husband just rolls his eyes and laughs at me but *that* ability to stand up and be brash sometimes, especially when the situation calls for it, is very attractive to me.  

Believe it or not though, the most telling moment in the Zev-situation for me may have been slightly off....  It's hard to describe.  In one of my current playthroughs my elf is firmly with Alistair still, though she has already slept with and has fallen hard for Zev. (oops, her bad!)  I have been doing my darndest to keep him under 70 approval and then the whole Taliesen thing happened and of course he didn't fight with me ( or as he put it, didn't fight against Taliesen).  Well, I played it as my character was pretty put out and ticked off.  After the dialogue that transpired I got a very... sad feeling about Zev.  He was really broken up when I told him I wanted him to do what was best for him, and only stay if it was what he wanted to do.  Basically that he was free to leave if freedom was what he wanted.  I was stunned that not only did he stay but that he was emotionally unable to reconcile within himself that he was able to make his own decision....he looked actually distraught that he was given a choice.  

I am not explaining it very well at all, but it was a very touching and telling moment.   For all his casualness about so much, when it comes down to things, he is *very* loyal to his feelings of things.  Sometimes I think that his feelings are the only thing he really has ownership of, and is why he keeps them so well protected ( and denied at times )  

You are explaining it quite well, and I understand completely. I was completely take aback when he said "I never made such decisions, they were always made for me." I reloaded just to hear it again. The expression in his face is heart-melting. He is given an opportunity to do something that was denied him all his life, and he's unsure about how to deal with it.

That said, I know he does jump to the PCs defense in Redcliffe, while the other companions do not. However, I can't do the mages without him, the fade and many other things are too important to miss as far as his character and his true self is concerned. The same goes with the Urn. Lordy, that scene with the guardian threw me for a loop in my first play-through.
Gah! He needs to be in every quest-line. Rassafrasin consarnit.

[Cuddlezarro]

You don't get that second line if Alistair was not captured with you

(tried it both ways). So from now on, my gray warden is dumb and tells

Cauthrien that we're rescuing Anora. And turning off potion consumption

in tactics so we lose the fight! AND Alistair gets to tag along.

its not domb! you had a room with like 8 archers 2 mages a bunch of other dudes and a woman witha gigantic sword sword and could **** slap the archdaemon to death trying to arrest you



Anora should have easily defused to situation (and if you recruit Loghain the entire DADDY WILL MURDER ME!!! was an act to satisfy her own ego) plus you get to call her a **** when you get back

[ejoslin]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

its not domb! you had a room with like 8 archers 2 mages a bunch of other dudes and a woman witha gigantic sword sword and could **** slap the archdaemon to death trying to arrest you

Anora should have easily defused to situation (and if you recruit Loghain the entire DADDY WILL MURDER ME!!! was an act to satisfy her own ego) plus you get to call her a **** when you get back

Perhaps you're right.  But one thing you know at the end of that entire exchange -- if the warden is harmed in the slightest, Anora is dead.  

[Cuddlezarro]

I wish you could kill Anora any ways



if she gets the chance to have Alistair executed why cant we execute her!? plus when she gets back to eamons place shes like "oh eamon I think I might have done a terrible thing" and pretty much ignores Alistair

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

Perhaps you're right.  But one thing you know at the end of that entire exchange -- if the warden is harmed in the slightest, Anora is dead.  

What? I mean, in my measely two and a half play throughs, my PC always surrendered. Not anymore, after reading your posts, but Anora doesn't really die, does she. I know, my question sounds naive, but I would appreciate some more details. My beloved amazon is just about coming up to this point, they are now running back to Anora's room after she dealt with the dungeon. (And being royally p'oed that Howe dies so easily.)
Gimme some meat

[Cuddlezarro]

no anora doesnt die sadly but Zevran would kill her if the **** got his grey warden killed

also you can net your self 2 summer swords by trying to get anora to help

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 06 février 2010 - 05:31 .

[Sabriana]

Cuddlezarro wrote...

no anora doesnt die sadly but Zevran would kill her if the **** got his grey warden killed

also you can net your self 2 summer swords by trying to get anora to help

Cuddlezarro, you are close to getting yourself kicked in the shin (virtually, of course).

Summer swords? Does my girl have to fight Cauthrien? Lordy, now you went ahead and done it. I guess I have to fight the b(w)itch. Does my PC not get killed in the fight? Gah! It seems I missed quite a bit.

Modifié par Sabriana, 06 février 2010 - 05:45 .

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Perhaps you're right.  But one thing you know at the end of that entire exchange -- if the warden is harmed in the slightest, Anora is dead.  

What? I mean, in my measely two and a half play throughs, my PC always surrendered. Not anymore, after reading your posts, but Anora doesn't really die, does she. I know, my question sounds naive, but I would appreciate some more details. My beloved amazon is just about coming up to this point, they are now running back to Anora's room after she dealt with the dungeon. (And being royally p'oed that Howe dies so easily.)
Gimme some meat

Hah, yes, if you tell Ser Cauthrien you are rescuing Anora and then tell Anora to confirm it, Anora says you're trying to kidnap her.  Then of course there's the fight (a fun one, but you have to lose it in order for this to work) and you're captured that way.  So next scene is with the two people you were captured with and Anora telling Eamon what happened.  Anora is all, "Eamon, I may have done a terrible thing!" and Zevran says something like, "What is this?   She throws her savior to the wolves, and now she has second thoughts?" So then there's more dialog, Anora says something about the warden being captured and how she needs to be freed blah blah blah and then Zevran says something like, "I'm still looking for a reason why we haven't cut her throat and dumped her in the river."  It's awesome.  Now, if Alistair is NOT in your party, then he talks instead and overrides that second comment of Zevran's.

Edit: And you can end up with two summer swords.  Just kill Cauthrien first, loot her, die, and then you get her again at the Landsmeet where it is an easier fight.

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 février 2010 - 05:50 .

[Sabriana]

@ Ejoslin
Thanks, my friend. I'm still trying to clear my head. If Alistair is *not* in the party, he still overrides Zevran? Is it like the Redcliffe thing, where he is forced into the party? Nevermind, I'll take your word for it.

You know, I do wish that the romance interest would trump others as far as comments go. I do like Alistair as a friend, but he shouldn't override Zevran if he is my PCs love interest. She'd much rather have Zevran comment than a mere friend

Edited because spelling in English is a byotch on Saturday nights.

Modifié par Sabriana, 06 février 2010 - 05:57 .

[Cuddlezarro]

also morrigan has a pretty funny line if she was in your party and anora betrays you



shes like "we have known her for 5 minutes and already she betrays us!" or something along those lines



but going that path is just so worth it for the dialogue options concerning anora

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

@ Ejoslin
Thanks, my friend. I'm still trying to clear my head. If Alistair is *not* in the party, he still overrides Zevran? Is it like the Redcliffe thing, where he is forced into the party? Nevermind, I'll take your word for it.

You know, I do wish that the romance interest would trump others as far as comments go. I do like Alistair as a friend, but he shouldn't override Zevran if he is my PCs love interest. She'd much rather have Zevran comment than a mere friend

Edited because spelling in English is a byotch on Saturday nights.

If Alistair is in the party, he's captured as well.  If he's NOT in the party, he overrides Zevran's second comment back at Arl Eamon's.

Modifié par ejoslin, 06 février 2010 - 05:59 .

[Sabriana]

*light dawns*



Oh, back at the estate. Thanks, EJoslin. Well, I guess I have to try. I always thought that if the PC decides to battle Cauthrien she dies. and reload happens. My amazon (and I) thank you.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

*light dawns*

Oh, back at the estate. Thanks, EJoslin. Well, I guess I have to try. I always thought that if the PC decides to battle Cauthrien she dies. and reload happens. My amazon (and I) thank you.

*grin* I apologize for not being more clear.  I should realize my walls of text can often be . . . well, walls of text!