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[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Oh that is so true. I love that part,  he's so sweetly awkward, it's moving. He knows the poem is garbage, but he has no idea how else to cheer her up.

It also shows that he's not thinking of himself as cold-hearted, he sees him having sex with his target as doing her a favor. "What kind of monster do you think I am?" tells that very clearly. He knows he has to kill her, or else face dire consequences himself, but he'll give her one last night of pleasure.

*grin* You know, I've never looked at it that way before.  I have to admit I often have trouble wrapping my head around the way Zevran views sex -- it's just completely detached from emotion, but at the same time, something he seems to be all about the other person, not himself.  I guess that would be the ****house training.

[Sabriana]

Heh, it's what he tells her after their first time, when she asks about 'love'.

"I was born of a wh**e and bred as an assassin. All I know is
pleasure and death. What room is there in these things for... love?"

That alone shows my PC a whole lot of the man. The words and the way he delivers them. That's why I have my PCs pick that one all the time, even though they lose approval. It's no big deal anyway, she doesn't have to dance on egg-shells around him anyway. He'll start trusting her as long as she isn't really mean and nasty, or completely ignores him.

Edited to fix the censor at least a bit. Really, it's in the game, gals and guys.

Modifié par Sabriana, 08 février 2010 - 12:36 .

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Zevran's regrets don't come across to my PC as 'fresh'. When he starts to trust her, he simply opens up more, and he says things like "I don't regret being with the women and men, but I regret many other things" (no verbatim), and he also says "I had to do a lot of bad things in my life". He talks about his scars and how she should just ignore them, like he does, and maybe they go away. I don't think he means outer scars, the way he says it it is clear to my PC that he's talking about inner scars.

The Zevran - Alistair conversation about sinning is also very telling. He does see his actions as sins.
My PC was very put off by him in the beginning, but the more she got to know him, the more she felt that most of his blunt statements at the beginning of their relationship were nothing but defenses.
.

YES!  When you first get Zevran, he has known nothing BUT being an assassin.  A ****house boy until 7, and then a crow from then on.  It has given him a life so far above what most elves get.  He has never known real love, kindness, caring, compassion, friendship.  What is amazing is not that he enjoys being an assassin and the power it gives him, but that underneath it all, he feels regrets and that he wants a different life.  

And I agree about the old scars comment.  When he speaks of his past, he's not boasting so much as talking about things that put him in a bad light.  The mage who was able to trick him and use him (though it ended up well for him, bad for her), getting knocked out a window, fished out of a river, and robbed, having to make his way back to the safehouse naked, and of course that last mission.  And even though he brings it up, he actually won't talk about the gruesome death by poisoning.

People are so afraid to take approval dings from their companions, but really, at least with Zevran, you can find out some fascinating stuff if you are decent to him, but not cheering him on.  Really, I liked it when he pointed out to my warden that had he wanted to kill her,he could have easily poisoned her -- major approval ding, but great answer. 

Anyway, I'm sure there's a point buried in all of this, so I'll end here.

Edit:

Sabriana wrote...

Heh, it's what he tells her after their first time, when she asks about 'love'. 

"I was born of a wh**e and bred as an assassin. All I know is
pleasure and death. What room is there in these things for... love?" 

That alone shows my PC a whole lot of the man. The words and the way he delivers them. That's why I have my PCs pick that one all the time, even though they lose approval. It's no big deal anyway, she doesn't have to dance on egg-shells around him anyway. He'll start trusting her as long as she isn't really mean and nasty, or completely ignores him.

Edited to fix the censor at least a bit. Really, it's in the game, gals and guys.

This really is the first time he's all but admitting that the Warden is shaking things up for him.  It's obvious he's trying to convince himself of this.  That IS all he was taught, and all he knows, yet he is already has deep feelings for the warden, which must be pretty bad for him.

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 février 2010 - 12:52 .

[Creature 1]

Sabriana wrote...

Zevran's regrets don't come across to my PC as 'fresh'. When he starts to trust her, he simply opens up more, and he says things like "I don't regret being with the women and men, but I regret many other things" (no verbatim), and he also says "I had to do a lot of bad things in my life". He talks about his scars and how she should just ignore them, like he does, and maybe they go away. I don't think he means outer scars, the way he says it it is clear to my PC that he's talking about inner scars.

It seems physical scars would be detrimental in a Crow's line of work.  Imagine if you're some noble and you pick up a hot elf to take to your bed.  If they take their clothes off and look like they've been through the wars, you might begin to think that they aren't the ditzy trollop they depict themselves as.  I think the Crows purposefully avoid scarring up their recruits, and encourage them to not get cut while on the job.  Not that a person would need much encouragement in that anyway!  

[Sabriana]

Indeed, Creature. I was only pointing that out to avoid the "but he means physical scars" responses.



Gah! I just read some more posts about how 'sweet, innocent, regretful, etc' Leliana is, and how Zevran is 'teh evullz'. Do these people play the game with their eyes and ears closed? Or is it just my game (and a handful other people's game) where Leliana cheerfully and happily describes how much she loved the hunt, the killing, and the manipulating. I see no regret anywhere with her, but I do see it in Zevran. Of course, he needs patience and insight, so a shallow play-through will forever keep this side of his closed.

[ejoslin]

You have to dig a little to get the dialogs with Zevran, and most people I think just want to make their companions happy. I think you only get the Leliana dialog if you harden her, and since there's no real advantage to hardening her, probably a lot of people don't.



I think in both cases, if you don't get to those dialogs, you're missing a lot what makes these two so rich. You can look at the surface and miss a lot of what makes them both so special, or you can look deeper and be blown away. What I really like about Leliana is that she has no regrets and that she misses her life as a bard, but she won't go back to it because she has found a deeper meaning with the blight and the darkspawn. Of course, unless she goes back to Orlais at the end, in which case she probably has gone right back to it.



It's very much like the Alistair/Zevran romances -- how things seem one way on the surface, but if you dig, you find other things going on. I really like that in my current play through, Alistair admits way ahead of time that being king is more important to him than the Warden is -- his duty to Ferelden comes first. That is a harsh moment, and a conversation that many will miss, unfortunately.

[Sabriana]

ejoslin wrote...

You have to dig a little to get the dialogs with Zevran, and most people I think just want to make their companions happy. I think you only get the Leliana dialog if you harden her, and since there's no real advantage to hardening her, probably a lot of people don't.

I think in both cases, if you don't get to those dialogs, you're missing a lot what makes these two so rich. You can look at the surface and miss a lot of what makes them both so special, or you can look deeper and be blown away. What I really like about Leliana is that she has no regrets and that she misses her life as a bard, but she won't go back to it because she has found a deeper meaning with the blight and the darkspawn. Of course, unless she goes back to Orlais at the end, in which case she probably has gone right back to it.

It's very much like the Alistair/Zevran romances -- how things seem one way on the surface, but if you dig, you find other things going on. I really like that in my current play through, Alistair admits way ahead of time that being king is more important to him than the Warden is -- his duty to Ferelden comes first. That is a harsh moment, and a conversation that many will miss, unfortunately.

Yeah, like me, and my silly mage.

However, since then my girls romanced Alistair, and even thought they loved him, until a certain elf came along and tried to kill them. So there's not much of a chance for them to see that line, I guess. I'll have to make a play-through where my PC takes the Alistair romance a bit further, keeping Zevran's romance turned low or off. Is there a way not to turn his romance off early on, but keep it on ice?

I know the 'what is it you fancy?' is one of the dialogues that can turn it on or off for good. I wouldn't want to choose the wrong option and turn it off for good. Oh no, the mere thought....

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Yeah, like me, and my silly mage.

However, since then my girls romanced Alistair, and even thought they loved him, until a certain elf came along and tried to kill them. So there's not much of a chance for them to see that line, I guess. I'll have to make a play-through where my PC takes the Alistair romance a bit further, keeping Zevran's romance turned low or off. Is there a way not to turn his romance off early on, but keep it on ice?

I know the 'what is it you fancy?' is one of the dialogues that can turn it on or off for good. I wouldn't want to choose the wrong option and turn it off for good. Oh no, the mere thought....

It's easy to keep the romance on ice without turning it off.  I have him at 65 warm right now, but he stares (grin, I like that line, can't wait to ask him).  There's always neutral lines.  Just take a non-negative one that is not flirtation (so don't select what is it you fancy, so you never mix business with pleasure, is this after I ravish you in celebration).  Actually, you can even ask him if the dialog comes up and you're at warm, "You want to kiss me?" and that won't turn the romance on,  just tell him either "if you're lucky," or "In your dreams."  I think there's another selection in there that will turn it off, however.  The lines that can turn on the romance, if you choose them after the romance has begun, give you fairly harsh answers, but fantastic answers if you're just turning them on (the "never mix business with pleasure" to turn it on is one of my favorite exchanges between Zevran and the warden because it is so flirtatious on both sides).

As long as Zevran is staring at 26+, all is good.

Edit: I'm sure you know this already, but you get that dialog with Alistair if you ask him where it's going after Arl Eamon has told Alistair that he plans on making him king.  He says straight out that he will become king if that is what's best for Ferelden, and he has no idea what that means for the two of you.  I understand why you don't get that if you don't revive the Arl first, but really, it would be nice if you weren't able to ask that until after he was healed.  It is so much more telling than that conversation usually goes.

Second edit: And I'm sure that there is nothing I wrote here that you don't already know!  *grin*

edit: clarity

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 février 2010 - 02:52 .

[Sabriana]

No, I didn't know that. I usually have my PC in a romance with Zevran by then. She doesn't do the 'Ashes' right after Redcliffe, but goes to the elves first. Elfroot, you know



So the lines "If you're lucky" and "in your dreams" turn the romance off for good? I could understand the second one, but the first one? "If you're lucky" doesn't exactly sound like a negative answer.



But I will certainly try it this way. Sounds like fun.

[bri193]

On Zevran ...

I played a human female rogue, and I kept him friendly enough to unlock assassin and keep him around, but never once used him in a party, except to trigger the final Crows encounter. The fake Italian accent put me right off ...

I live in Italy, and the closest that voice actor has been to Italy is a plate of pasta. If Bioware wanted to create a Mediterranean type character, then there are many actors with Spanish or Italian backgrounds who could have done this much better.. Sad really, cos there seemed to be a lot of dialogue written for him that has gone to waste, at least in my playthrough...

[Sabriana]

Well, Antiva doesn't really exist

Besides, there are a few NPCs supposedly from Antiva, and they all sound different. I like his accent the way it is, actually. Who's to say what a native Antivan should really sound like *grin*

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

No, I didn't know that. I usually have my PC in a romance with Zevran by then. She doesn't do the 'Ashes' right after Redcliffe, but goes to the elves first. Elfroot, you know

So the lines "If you're lucky" and "in your dreams" turn the romance off for good? I could understand the second one, but the first one? "If you're lucky" doesn't exactly sound like a negative answer.

But I will certainly try it this way. Sounds like fun.

Neither does.  They don't turn the romance on, though.  You still get the stare.    When keeping him warm, I avoid the "never mix business with pleasure," "what is it you fancy," "ravish you," "I'm already fond of you."  I suppose him asking for a kiss right there can be seen as joking, not flirting.  It seems his romance only turns on if it's the Warden who starts the flirt banter.

Edit: And I read in an interview that the accent was supposed to be more of a Latin flavor, not Italian.

Second edit: wow, I was really unclear in my other post.  I will change it, ugh.

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 février 2010 - 02:51 .

[bri193]

Fair enough, all fictional places, etc .. However Bioware was/is trying to model Antiva on the Med area (Italy & Spain...) So, why do a fake accent from these areas when it sound so fake, and there are 'real' people who can do it properly ?? Makes no sense to me ...

And, if you like that voice actor's accent, then take a trip here and after 15mins you will know want I am going on about ...

[ejoslin]

bri193 wrote...

Fair enough, all fictional places, etc .. However Bioware was/is trying to model Antiva on the Med area (Italy & Spain...) So, why do a fake accent from these areas when it sound so fake, and there are 'real' people who can do it properly ?? Makes no sense to me ...
And, if you like that voice actor's accent, then take a trip here and after 15mins you will know want I am going on about ...

Again, if the accent is supposed to be more Latino (and it is quite close to some of the accents I hear in my area) then there's no problem.

Zevran is a good character to have in your party because he says more than all your other companions in the various areas combined.  It's too bad the voice is that off-putting to you, because he adds a lot of flavor to the game.  Of course, if you hate the voice, that would be a BAD thing!

[bri193]

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: And I read in an interview that the accent was supposed to be more of a Latin flavor, not Italian.

Second edit: wow, I was really unclear in my other post.  I will change it, ugh.

Latin flavour pretty much means Italian, as no one speaks Latin here, except for some robe-types in the vatican...
If Zevran was supposed to be Spanish, then it is even worse!!

Regardless, I found it very annoying so mainly used gifts to get his approval rating up to avoid having to enter convo with him ....

[Sabriana]

I've been in Italy and in Spain plenty of times. They're not exactly far away from my own country, and a favorite vacation spot for many of my compatriots.



I like the voice actor and I like the accent. I'm surrounded by other countries, and I hear a lot of accents. I just like the way he sounds, I see no need to pin his accent on any particular country. I don't see why his accent can't be, well, Antivan. It's just a personal thing, you know. I simply like the actor's voice and I like the accent. Tuvok is so talented. Who knew

I wonder if he and Capt. Janeway hooked up and reminisced about the good old times, lol.

[ejoslin]

bri193 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Edit: And I read in an interview that the accent was supposed to be more of a Latin flavor, not Italian.

Second edit: wow, I was really unclear in my other post.  I will change it, ugh.

Latin flavour pretty much means Italian, as no one speaks Latin here, except for some robe-types in the vatican...
If Zevran was supposed to be Spanish, then it is even worse!!

Regardless, I found it very annoying so mainly used gifts to get his approval rating up to avoid having to enter convo with him ....

Ah, here, in my area, Latino pretty much means Latin America.  And since this is a game made in Canada, it wouldn't surprise me if that is what was meant.

[bri193]

ejoslin wrote...

Again, if the accent is supposed to be more Latino (and it is quite close to some of the accents I hear in my area) then there's no problem.

Zevran is a good character to have in your party because he says more than all your other companions in the various areas combined.  It's too bad the voice is that off-putting to you, because he adds a lot of flavor to the game.  Of course, if you hate the voice, that would be a BAD thing!

My area is 25kms outside of Rome, and believe me when I say no one here speaks like Zevran...
Yep, I hate the voice, so no Zevran ....

[Sialater]

Well, in my area he sounds Spanish as in European, not Mexican or Guatemalan or Costa Rican or even Puerto Rican. Ignacio sounded Italian, though, oddly enough. Maybe it's like Elves and Humans in Ferelden? Elves sounded American/Canadian and Humans sounded British.

[ejoslin]

bri193 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Again, if the accent is supposed to be more Latino (and it is quite close to some of the accents I hear in my area) then there's no problem.

Zevran is a good character to have in your party because he says more than all your other companions in the various areas combined.  It's too bad the voice is that off-putting to you, because he adds a lot of flavor to the game.  Of course, if you hate the voice, that would be a BAD thing!

My area is 25kms outside of Rome, and believe me when I say no one here speaks like Zevran...
Yep, I hate the voice, so no Zevran ....

*grin* That's fine.  Everyone likes different companions for sure.  Enjoy your game   It's a lot of fun no matter whom you pick to travel with you!

[Sabriana]

Oh well, duh to myself.

I know only a few Latin Americans, and one Brazilian (whose language is Portuguese, of course), but they do sound like Zevran to me, a lot like him, even the Brazilian.

I've never even thought about Latin America, lol. Just goes to show you, that the area you live in predisposes you to certain thoughts. My mind was wandering about the actual Mediterranean area.

[ejoslin]

Since it is a made up accent, it won't sound exactly like any one area. But it sounds extremely Latino to me. It's funny how even the accents are interpreted SO differently. To me, it's irrelevant. But obviously, it's very relevant to others.

[Sabriana]

It's easy to misplace accents, trust me. I have an accent when speaking English. I am German, but people often can't place me there. I've been asked if I was French, Dutch, Swedish, amongst other nationalities. Perhaps it's because I do not have a harsh accent, like the typical Germans sound in US movies

I know to switch the W and V sound around in English, and I am also able to say "the" perfectly well, not like Arnold does it, making it sound like "De". So it really all depends on the person speaking it. So say, 10 Germans speaking English can have 10 different accents along a large scale.

But, to each her/his own. There's nothing wrong or right about liking/not liking certain things, accents and voices included.

[bri193]

ejoslin wrote...

Since it is a made up accent, it won't sound exactly like any one area. But it sounds extremely Latino to me. It's funny how even the accents are interpreted SO differently. To me, it's irrelevant. But obviously, it's very relevant to others.

I always game with headphones, so voices and accents become rather intimate inside my head...
Anything that does not sound right, is intensified much more than with normal speakers.
There are a couple of other NPC's who have annoying voices and weird accents, however they are not companions and incounters with them are brief.

[ejoslin]

bri193 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Since it is a made up accent, it won't sound exactly like any one area. But it sounds extremely Latino to me. It's funny how even the accents are interpreted SO differently. To me, it's irrelevant. But obviously, it's very relevant to others.

I always game with headphones, so voices and accents become rather intimate inside my head...
Anything that does not sound right, is intensified much more than with normal speakers.
There are a couple of other NPC's who have annoying voices and weird accents, however they are not companions and incounters with them are brief.

I listen with headphones as well.  It makes TEEEGGGGAAAANNNN so much more annoying!  I kind of wish Zevran had threatened to slit HER throat as well!