ejoslin wrote...
I cut out all my old comments, and I apologize, but I'm too lazy for formatting and I really did enjoy what you wrote here. I actually think we agree more than disagree.
I agree. xD And I apologize for having to constantly explain myself. The problem with me is that I'm constantly under the impression that posting at 12am before going to bed is an awesome idea, which means that I rarely ever manage to get my full thoughts out before I hit the sack. Then I wake up the next day and forget completely what my point was supposed to be.
ejoslin wrote...
We actually do know what happens to Zevran if the warden is out of the picture -- if the Warden sacrifices herself. He kills his way to becoming leader of the crows after they came after him again.
True, but I meant a scenario where Zevran succeeded in defeating the Wardens from the get go.
When he joins the Wardens, the PC basically raises him up, and when she/he dies, he's dropped back to ground zero. The PC made him think that he could be more, and when they die I can't help feeling that the situation is drastically different from him succeeding in his mission from the start.
ejoslin wrote...
I disagree about Leliana, however. She is pious for sure, but that doesn't mean she regrets what she did. I just see no indication from her, hardened or not, that she feels that hunting down men and murdering them is wrong. Her regrets all seem to stem from trusting Marjolaine.
I think this is mainly because people have difficulty separating who Leliana was in the past from who she is in the present. My conversational choices with her always led me to believe that she doesn't even see herself as the same person, which is why she can discuss her past as a bard so casually.
As for Leliana's remorse, I think it's shown more plainly in her reactions to certain situations than conversational dialog. When you first encounter her in the Tavern she begs you to spare Loghain's men, and if you refuse, she won't join your party.
If she was still the sort to relish in the power of the kill, why would the PC's lack of mercy affect her so?
ejoslin wrote...
With Zevran, you can refer to only 1 incident, but that doesn't mean that was his only regret. I fully agree with you that it was both his killing Rinna and more importantly, the master crow letting him know exactly what that meant, and what he meant, which is what destroyed his world. What I'm saying, though, is that he had to fight his nature to do what he was doing. It was all he knew, it was the best life he could possibly have, it was a life he couldn't escape from, and it was an enjoyable life. But he still had regrets over things he had done. Would he have kept with the crows had the warden not rescued him? Of course. Until he died. Would Leliana have kept on with her life if Marjolaine had not betrayed her? Of course. Until she died. The difference being is that Leliana reveled in it, where Zevran enjoyed the benefits, but had to work at making himself cold to it.
Oh, I definitely agree that Zevran has a collection of regrets, and it
kills me that each and every one isn't fully explored in game (although, it does allow one the freedom to draw their own conclusions), and the fact that he had to fight with his inner nature just to perform his 'job' makes him one of the most sympathetic characters in the game.
However, I think Leliana suffers from what I've dubbed 'lost child syndrome' in that when she was young she lost her mother, and unlike Zevran, she'd grown attached. She then spends the rest of her life trying to regain what she lost, first in the Noble Woman who took her in for a time, and later in Marjolaine who claimed to 'love' her and encouraged her life and enjoyment as a Bard.
When Marjorlaine's love was proven a lie, she fell apart into doubt and regret. If Marjorlaine had lied about caring for her, what else did she lie about? etc... and so she tried to become someone else, someone who was better than Marjorlaine. Someone who would think and act with more mercy than she had shown Leliana.
But once again, this is just player perspective. Obviously there are 100 ways to view the situation.
I guess my biggest gripe is the claim that a character's only appeal is 'lesbian sex', because to me, that's like say Zevran's only appeal is that he's 'the token gay character'. they're both so obviously untrue that it's ridiculous, and I don't think any group of fans should be criticized for enjoying a character's story.
But I'll get off the subject of Leliana now. I already feel pretty bad for diverting the discussion like this, but character comparisons are good for the soul and added a few pages to the topic? xD
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