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[ejoslin]

spottyblanket wrote...

How come you can't just kiss Zevran? And not in public?

Because you don't have the dialog tweaks installed on the PC version of the game

Really, in the vanilla game, you cannot kiss Leliana or Zevran in public -- I tend to think that professional assassins would not let their guard down that much in a public area.  Or it could be that they're older and more experienced.  Or it could be to illustrate the difference between their romances and the heady first love of the Alistair/Morrigan romances.  

There are two ways to get a public kiss from Zevran, and you do not want to see either.  They're both goodbyes, but in different ways.  One he actually leaves, and one shuts down all possibility of the relationship moving anywhere but casual (though some people think this is a bug).

Me, I have dialog tweaks installed.  I love the PDA!

[Cuddlezarro]

Me, I have dialog tweaks installed. I love the PDA!

I like Alistairs reaction to publicly kissing Zevran where hes like "i think im just gonna look...over there" (though despite the fact he says that he sure likes watching me and zev make out in camp...)

also an earlier version of said mod had a really hilarious but OoC response from Oghren

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 08 février 2010 - 09:26 .

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...
Really, in the vanilla game, you cannot kiss Leliana or Zevran in public -- I tend to think that professional assassins would not let their guard down that much in a public area.  Or it could be that they're older and more experienced.  Or it could be to illustrate the difference between their romances and the heady first love of the Alistair/Morrigan romances.

Or the devs just didn't want to put the time in to add in all of the party responses like they did for Alistair and Morrigan.  I believe dialogue tweaks borrows lines from other parts of the game, not activating ones intended for the PDA. 

[Creature 1]

Cuddlezarro wrote...
I like Alistairs reaction to publicly kissing Zevran where hes like "i think im just gonna look...over there" (though despite the fact he says that he sure likes watching me and zev make out in camp...)

Gee, he hasn't said that to my male PCs! 

[ejoslin]

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Really, in the vanilla game, you cannot kiss Leliana or Zevran in public -- I tend to think that professional assassins would not let their guard down that much in a public area.  Or it could be that they're older and more experienced.  Or it could be to illustrate the difference between their romances and the heady first love of the Alistair/Morrigan romances.

Or the devs just didn't want to put the time in to add in all of the party responses like they did for Alistair and Morrigan.  I believe dialogue tweaks borrows lines from other parts of the game, not activating ones intended for the PDA. 

Hahaha, I think you found the most likely reason!  I actually use the version of DT without the comments -- I find them annoying.

[Cuddlezarro]

Gee, he hasn't said that to my male PCs! 

I can get a screenshot if you like

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 08 février 2010 - 09:29 .

[Creature 1]

ejoslin wrote...

Creature 1 wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Really, in the vanilla game, you cannot kiss Leliana or Zevran in public -- I tend to think that professional assassins would not let their guard down that much in a public area.  Or it could be that they're older and more experienced.  Or it could be to illustrate the difference between their romances and the heady first love of the Alistair/Morrigan romances.

Or the devs just didn't want to put the time in to add in all of the party responses like they did for Alistair and Morrigan.  I believe dialogue tweaks borrows lines from other parts of the game, not activating ones intended for the PDA. 

Hahaha, I think you found the most likely reason!  I actually use the version of DT without the comments -- I find them annoying.

Didn't realize there was a comment-less version!  I won't have to say to Alistair "I didn't ask you to watch anyway!" any more!  

[Cuddlezarro]

heres alistairs PDA reaction if your a guy (no idea if its the same if your female)



the way he says it and his facial expression just makes me lol

Edit: also any one know where that line was originally stolen from iv *never* seen alistair say that outside of this

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 08 février 2010 - 09:50 .

[jenovan]

Creature 1 wrote...

Cuddlezarro wrote...
I like Alistairs reaction to publicly kissing Zevran where hes like "i think im just gonna look...over there" (though despite the fact he says that he sure likes watching me and zev make out in camp...)

Gee, he hasn't said that to my male PCs! 

Odd -- he says that every single time to Alessar and Zevran, to which Zevran says, "You should see your face when you say that." XD

ejoslin wrote...

Really,
in the vanilla game, you cannot kiss Leliana or Zevran in public -- I
tend to think that professional assassins would not let their guard
down that much in a public area.  Or it could be that they're older and
more experienced.  Or it could be to illustrate the difference between
their romances and the heady first love of the Alistair/Morrigan
romances. 

  (bolded by me)
I'm not sure I'd call the Morrigan romance heady... at least, not in the same way as Alistair's. XD   When my mage kisses her in camp, I get the feeling she's mocking him ("Hmmm, aren't you the romantic?").  Haven't tried it in public yet, but I think she says something like "And you want to do this with an audience?" ... now I'm curious. 

Actually, I always thought that Alistair and Morrigan got more of these "perks" because up to a point, they're mandatory companions, especially Alistair. <_<   Feels like a bit of a gyp for Zev and Leliana.  The idea that they normally wouldn't indulge in PDAs because of their professions is an interesting one...   Although, on the other hand, I can imagine Zevran, at least, being perfectly content to flaunt his affection for the Warden in public.  He certainly doesn't mind talking about it. ;D

[Cuddlezarro]

Odd -- he says that every single time to Alessar and Zevran, to which Zevran says, "You should see your face when you say that." XD

I can only get Alistair to say it if I remove Morrigan from the party otherwise she overrides him with the "any one else want to vomit" quote

[ejoslin]

Ok, I'm my usual easily convinced self and all my theories I'm sure are wrong and that it was just easier to only have the PDAs for two characters as opposed to four. I'm just glad I'm playing on a PC instead of my xbox!

[Cuddlezarro]

I honestly couldent imagine playing this game on console



then again the only next gen console I have is a wii (and its not even mine its my parents funnily enough)

[MorningBird]

ejoslin wrote...
Leliana always joins my party -- I tell her, say a prayer for them, then she helps me wipe them out!  Then either she joins then if I let her, or begs to join at Lothering bridge if I tell her she's crazy and to go away.

And of course the relationship is so much more than lesbian sex!  But I still think of her as remorseless for what she's actually done.  She hid in the Chantry, becomes overly pious, but I don't think she ever regretted a single murder.

And I do agree that Zevran would have stayed with the crows had he succeeded.  What else would he have done?  And he would have been more and more reckless, until he died or made it to the top.

@ AnniLau as well, since I think you posted something similar:

EDIT: and Cuddlezarro too, apparently. xD  Sorry I missed you in this the first time, this has been sitting on my monitor for a while, so I didnt' go back to see who else posted. >.>

Really?  I'd always heard that killing the soldiers results in her leaving/refusing to join.  I may need to replay that part...

And perhaps 'remorse' is the wrong choice of words when it comes to describing Leliana's past... Having looked back on the posts, I agree that it doesn't really fit her at all.  She doesn't seem to regret who she was or what she had done, but I don't doubt for a second that she tried to become someone else entirely, if only to separate herself from Marjorlaine.

As for Zevran remaining with the Crows... I can't help thinking that the situation where he defeats the Wardens isn't quite comparable to the end game scenario where his lover dies and he returns to take over.

When he first encounters the Wardens there's a certain feeling of desperation to the encounter.

The ending where the Warden dies and he returns to Antiva, however, just feels more like he was bitter and angry with them for backing him into a situation where he found he could love only to lose the person he'd come to value to the Archdemon.

If they had just seen him as someone from the beginning, he never would have had to leave, never would have met the PC, and never would have had to deal with the pain affiliated with their death, and for that, I think he blames them for the torment he must feel at the end of the game.

So he returns to Antiva and takes over,  turns the tables on them and becomes someone 'valuable' so that he can give his life meaning in the only way that is left to him.  Or at least, he tried.  I don't think he really succeeded in making himself anything but miserable in that ending.

Or maybe I'm just thinking too much into that. xD

Modifié par MorningBird, 08 février 2010 - 10:50 .

[ejoslin]

MorningBird wrote...

ejoslin wrote...
Leliana always joins my party -- I tell her, say a prayer for them, then she helps me wipe them out!  Then either she joins then if I let her, or begs to join at Lothering bridge if I tell her she's crazy and to go away.

And of course the relationship is so much more than lesbian sex!  But I still think of her as remorseless for what she's actually done.  She hid in the Chantry, becomes overly pious, but I don't think she ever regretted a single murder.

And I do agree that Zevran would have stayed with the crows had he succeeded.  What else would he have done?  And he would have been more and more reckless, until he died or made it to the top.

@ AnniLau as well, since I think you posted something similar:

Really?  I'd always heard that killing the soldiers results in her leaving/refusing to join.  I may need to replay that part...

And perhaps 'remorse' is the wrong choice of words when it comes to describing Leliana's past... Having looked back on the posts, I agree that it doesn't really fit her at all.  She doesn't seem to regret who she was or what she had done, but I don't doubt for a second that she tried to become someone else entirely, if only to separate herself from Marjorlaine.

As for Zevran remaining with the Crows... I can't help thinking that the situation where he defeats the Wardens isn't quite comparable to the end game scenario where his lover dies and he returns to take over.

When he first encounters the Wardens there's a certain feeling of desperation to the encounter.

The ending where the Warden dies and he returns to Antiva, however, just feels more like he was bitter and angry with them for backing him into a situation where he found he could love only to lose the person he'd come to value to the Archdemon.

If they had just seen him as someone from the beginning, he never would have had to leave, never would have met the PC, and never would have had to deal with the pain affiliated with their death, and for that, I think he blames them for the torment he must feel at the end of the game.

So he returns to Antiva and takes over,  turns the tables on them and becomes someone 'valuable' so that he can give his life meaning in the only way that is left to him.  Or at least, he tried.  I don't think he really succeeded in making himself anything but miserable in that ending.

Or maybe I'm just thinking too much into that. xD

No, his ending is completely miserable.

And his attack on the warden, as you know, was a suicide attempt.  His "ambush" starts by warning the warden she's about to be attacked and goes downhill from there!  But when he goes back to Antiva, it's because the Crows came after him again.  Is he bitter?  It doesn't really say.  But he never loves again.  I think the best that was him, the part that the warden was able to bring out, died along with the warden.

As far as what you read into it, the endings are sketchy enough that you can do that.  People don't even agree on whether he never touches another or just goes from person to person (though I for the life of me cannot see the confusion -- he OBVIOUSLY never touches anyone again rofl).  There's so much you can read into in all the characters.  That's what makes them so special -- they become your own.

Edit: Did a major edit as I hit enter WAY too soon.

Modifié par ejoslin, 08 février 2010 - 11:10 .

[Sabriana]

He really is miserable. Godsamercy, I had to reload seeing his face in the eulogy. I just couldn't do it to him. He dies with his Grey Warden that day. He can't be without her, so he chucks this all off, goes dead inside, and vents his rage at the Crows. The slave becomes the master of all. He loved so deeply and all is taken from him

For the first time in his life he felt connected, felt deep emotions. And it's taken away from him. Once again he's left without. His whole life he's been denied, and when he does feel, it's destroyed. No. I can't do this to him. I just..., well, can't.

[Nonvita]

ejoslin wrote...

As far as what you read into it, the endings are sketchy enough that you can do that.  People don't even agree on whether he never touches another or just goes from person to person (though I for the life of me cannot see the confusion -- he OBVIOUSLY never touches anyone again rofl).  There's so much you can read into in all the characters.  That's what makes them so special -- they become your own.

I suppose I'd be inclined to agree about the bedmates. It's so unclear, though, that I admit I'm a little confused about it. Especially since it seems like such an integral part of being a Crow, I have a hard time imagining him not accepting the offers. But I'd have to agree in part because of MorningBird's point- that his return to the Crows was one last desperate attempt to bring meaning to his life. If that's the case, then sex (which he's realized by then has little or no meaning without love) would only serve as a reminder of pain and emptiness. So he instead turns to ruthless killing, which he said himself has no sexual pleasure, only the feeling of control and power.

I think the sacrifice with a romanced Zevran may be one of the worst things you can do in the entire game, which is why I'm now so thankful to Alistair for stopping my character from doing it. She didn't realize just how much she'd be hurting him. (Morrigan's deal was a great piece of writing, with her understanding that your sacrifice would be utterly cruel to those you leave behind.)
Quite honestly that ending makes me feel sick to my stomach. The thought that Zevran could turn that desperate and hopeless... And the calculatedness behind his rise to power, it's as if the monster inside him finally broke free. There's really nothing left of the good Zevran at that point.

Ug, it seriously makes me upset.

Here's a question that may or may not be related to any of this: it's about Alistair and Zevran's party banter when Alistair questions why Zevran of all people was sent. Zevran obviously darts around the question, but I always wondered what the reasoning was. I realize Zevran was the only one to accept the contract, but is that it? Are the "other things" he mentioned just Rinna and his suicide wish at that point, or something more? I've only heard the dialogue once, so forgive me if I'm remembering it wrong, but it was something I didn't really understand at the time and wanted to know more about.

[ejoslin]

Shallow and sleazy? I don't think so.





Edit: deleted epilogue card

Second edit: These screenies really do break my heart.  Ugh.
 

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 février 2010 - 12:08 .

[Sabriana]

@ Nonvita

Yes, I do think that Zevran dances around the issue with Alistair. The PC is the only one he explains it to. It's such a personal and deeply moving issue that he thinks is all his own. He only opens up to the PC because he trusts her enough.

A suicide attempt is extremely personal. Opening up about it shows how valued the PC becomes to him. Even though he is still fighting the feelings for her, he opens up. Simply because he has learned to trust her. He's never had a friend before, and she becomes one, although he doesn't qiute know how to handle it.

[ejoslin]

Nonvita wrote...


I suppose I'd be inclined to agree about the bedmates. It's so unclear, though, that I admit I'm a little confused about it. Especially since it seems like such an integral part of being a Crow, I have a hard time imagining him not accepting the offers. But I'd have to agree in part because of MorningBird's point- that his return to the Crows was one last desperate attempt to bring meaning to his life. If that's the case, then sex (which he's realized by then has little or no meaning without love) would only serve as a reminder of pain and emptiness. So he instead turns to ruthless killing, which he said himself has no sexual pleasure, only the feeling of control and power.

I think the sacrifice with a romanced Zevran may be one of the worst things you can do in the entire game, which is why I'm now so thankful to Alistair for stopping my character from doing it. She didn't realize just how much she'd be hurting him. (Morrigan's deal was a great piece of writing, with her understanding that your sacrifice would be utterly cruel to those you leave behind.)
Quite honestly that ending makes me feel sick to my stomach. The thought that Zevran could turn that desperate and hopeless... And the calculatedness behind his rise to power, it's as if the monster inside him finally broke free. There's really nothing left of the good Zevran at that point.

Ug, it seriously makes me upset.

Here's a question that may or may not be related to any of this: it's about Alistair and Zevran's party banter when Alistair questions why Zevran of all people was sent. Zevran obviously darts around the question, but I always wondered what the reasoning was. I realize Zevran was the only one to accept the contract, but is that it? Are the "other things" he mentioned just Rinna and his suicide wish at that point, or something more? I've only heard the dialogue once, so forgive me if I'm remembering it wrong, but it was something I didn't really understand at the time and wanted to know more about.

As leader of the crows, he doesn't have to accept contracts.  And the wording says, "Despite frequent offers of bedmates, he never loved again."

And no, he just mentions that he's the only one to accept the contract.  The things with Rinna, he never discusses with anyone but the Warden.  He actually tells the Warden that it felt good to talk about it, that he swore he never would (you have to pick something other than "do you still want to die" when he's telling you about it).  

Edit: Zevran will only talk about Rinna to a friend AFTER the Taliesen encounter, or romanced, after he hits adore.  Both make sense, especially if you believe that he's falling in love with the warden but not admitting it to himself.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 février 2010 - 12:07 .

[Nonvita]

Thanks for the responses. About the bedmates- yeah, that's why I tend to agree. Actually, the fact that it's so hard to fully believe may just make it all the more powerful- it really is a complete change that's taken place in him.



And the dialogue, I couldn't remember at what stage in the relationship it had come up, so I wasn't sure if it was before or after the Rinna talk. (That playthrough took about 4 weeks in 2-hour a day increments, so I'll freely admit I missed a lot, got confused about a lot, and didn't think a lot of things through...) And thanks for reminding me that I need to stop always choosing the same dialogue responses! I just always thought the "Do you still want to die?" is too touching of an option to pass on, but clearly the others provide good insight as well.



Now shall we move on to something happier? Those pictures are making me really sad. =(

[ejoslin]

Nonvita wrote...

Now shall we move on to something happier? Those pictures are making me really sad. =(

Ok, here's the very end of the dwarf kiss (again).

[Nonvita]

Now you're just making me sad I don't have a dwarf! XD

[BlastedLands]

argh, crisis. just started a mage (which looks a little emo btw^^) and now i got no idea where to go first.....

[Cuddlezarro]

Nonvita wrote...

Now you're just making me sad I don't have a dwarf! XD

come to the dark side play a stuntie! there origins and peoples reactions to your return to orzammar is totally worth it!


also heres a question to every one here how do you think you and Zevran will deal with when you are going to your calling?

Alexander Cousland would be rather adamant that Zevran not go with him and help his Heir(if he is lucky enough to have a son/daughter before he goes completely sterile or my Nephew or Neice)  since he is King (none of that consort crap Anora ends up having an "accident" as far as im concerned) I can see Zevran not being happy with this desision at all though and insisting to go with his love

Rei Amell is a blood mage so he pulls an Avernus and uses blood magic to not die

Galen Aeducen is pretty much the same as Alexander the difference is he already has an Heir to the throne he inherits when that fool Harrowmont dies and doesnt have to worry about having another one

Modifié par Cuddlezarro, 09 février 2010 - 01:09 .

[Creature 1]

Haven't played Warden's Keep, but my blood mage also is really miffed about the whole "dying young" thing and is going to do his best to find a way around it.