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[MorGothic]

Aroihkin wrote...

I love this thread. Not coherent enough
for much more than that right now, but... yeah. The "virginity is what
makes it special!" argument makes me gag every time I see it, sorry.
Just... no. No. Just because that's their emotional kink, doesn't
make it so.

^Agreed.

As my best firend said; Having sex for the
first time is only different from any other time, in the way that it's
over far to fast and you have no idea what your doing.

ejoslin wrote...

Someone who's good at making character faces should make various Couslands. I think that's a great idea since I'm not going to do it. What do you think, MorGothic?

Was there a hint in there somewhere? I think I may have missed it. <_<

*edit* Oh yeah this would get top of the page....*sigh*

Modifié par MorGothic, 24 avril 2010 - 06:28 .

[Aroihkin]

webbedfeet wrote...

*delurks*

Slightly OT, but if people are going to worry about health issues from sex, they should also worry about tetanus. The amount of blows you get from rusty swords (not to mention all the cut jugulars, broken bones, concussions and eyeballs falling out) should have killed the party before they even get three treaties. And have they seen the water source at camp? I'm surprised the party didn't all die of dysentery in the first week!

I am being facetious. I apologize for this.

Also, this is also somewhat OT, but am I the only one who finds it interesting that a good deal of people who are hung up about Alistair's virginity also plays non-virgin Couslands?

*relurks, sorry for the interruption AND the randomness*

Nu! We love random interruptions, don't go! We have virtual baked goods! *makes Q eyes*

Pretty sure if Thedas has STDs, the cure is "slather a health poltice on it and wait five seconds", yeah, XD I always post this, but it's so relevant:



XDD Ah, game medicine.

Minaleth wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...
I love this thread. Not coherent enough for much more than that right now, but... yeah. The "virginity is what makes it special!" argument makes me gag every time I see it, sorry. Just... no. No. Just because that's their emotional kink, doesn't make it so.

Haha, virginity as emotional kink That is very hilarious thought.

Imo sex==love is culturally promoted trope. An interesting concept to ponder on, but completely alien to me for different reasons. I associate love with something else. Still, I can guess where it comes from.

@ flirting with other people - well, I've dated a guy who did that a lot and I hated it, but later I realized the real reason of my utter disgust was lack of any trace of commitment in our relationship and the flirting itself was not really the issue. Now I find situations like this quite hilarious.

@ too many previous partners argument - since it's a game I easily disregard any health issues, simple as that. Free from this I find it interesting. I am sucker for stories and this is the best kind :3 I would bake cookies for good piece of retold personal history if it's shared willingly and on right occasion Zevran excels in that and thus Mina approves +100

It is an emotional kink in my honest opinion. That's fine and they can hold out looking for mister perfect sparkling virgin if that's their requirements, but the rest of us will go on humping whoever, kthx. I mean, the guy I ditched mine with was one as well, so either we are both ****s (and note I've been forced into celibacy for the last six years and counting), or we should have fallen magically into eternal love or something, by their logic.

In reality, I found out he lied about being a drinker and dumped his ass a week later. Dad was a drunk, not something I put up with around me kthx.

And it does make people have more interesting stories, yeah, and Zev does seem to have a flair for storytelling. XD

Modifié par Aroihkin, 24 avril 2010 - 06:26 .

[ejoslin]

MorGothic wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Someone who's good at making character faces should make various Couslands. I think that's a great idea since I'm not going to do it. What do you think, MorGothic?

Was there a hint in there somewhere? I think I may have missed it. <_<

My subtlety is pretty amazing, isn't it 

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 avril 2010 - 06:27 .

[Sarah1281]

barkingM1 wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Sarah and Herr have the right of it.
Not saying there couldn't/wouldn't be problems anyways, just saying folks don't have to pidgeon-hole themselves completely into earth history. Historically any female Warden would have had a hell of a lot more trouble than just some snark from Murdock, too, and if the world got saved it would have been "Alistair's doing" and aw, wasn't he strange for letting that girl play soldier.

Truth.  It's not an alternate history setting (magic & dragons, y'all). 

I know. This is a setting where the sexsm is about what it is today where some people don't like women fighting and it's certainly not a fifty-fifty split but if they're capable and willing no one's going to stop them from getting involved.

Legitimacy, on the other hand, has already been shown to be a huge issue as far as Alistair is concerned. All the nobles are so eager to have children to carry on their lines and stories about a brave maid/knight or whatever having the child right at the gates or dying in service of the Couslands and leaving a child orphaned and that child is the adopted HN? It just doesn't ring true. It's just like the situation with Alistair except more so as they don't have any noble blood. Certainly the Couslands could see that the child was taken care of and sent it to the Chantry or something but raising it? Alistair tells you that the reason Eamon raised him was because of Maric and everyone assumed his ward was his bastard son anyway. Noble adoption just didn't seem t happen in that setting. The idea that a noble would randomly take a child in and raise it goes against everything we know about Alistair's background and it makes sending him to the Chantry as no one believed he wasn't Eamon's completely pointless. I know everyone today thinks it was a horrible thing to do but from what we've been shown it's jus how things worked in Thedas.

[soignee]

Nonvita wrote...

@Webbedfeet- you make some great points. Of course, as STDs are far more a source of concern these days, people are much more likely to think about those in the game context than about dysentery and the like. Still, come on people, it's a fantasy world--your characters don't eat, bathe, get diseases (besides those purposely applied), etc.

Indeed! Magical setting, etc. I doubt anyone is going to go crazy and die from syphillis anytime soon in Ferelden.

And yes, that is funny about Alistair's virginity. My CE certainly didn't consider it that special, as she was pretty much a ****. And honestly, virginity in RL isn't that special either. It may seem like it at first, but later on when you feel more comfortable with the fact that sex =/= the single most emotionally meaningful experience you'll ever have, you realize good relationships are based off a whole lot of other things than being the sole sex partner.

All good points as usualllll Nonvita! Keep talking like that and I'll steal you away from Knight and Herr and you can join my harem.

Yeah, Missa's approach to sex is wildly different to Alistair's too, but Missa aldo thinks Alistair can be a bit wet around the ears. Not that she minds, she gets to boss him about then.

@Webbedfeet: Ahhh Alistair/Cousland fangirls. Yeahhhh. *looks at the many, many couscous/ali fics on ff.net fics* I know what you mean.

[Aroihkin]

MorGothic wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

I love this thread. Not coherent enough for much more than that right now, but... yeah. The "virginity is what makes it special!" argument makes me gag every time I see it, sorry. Just... no. No. Just because that's their emotional kink, doesn't make it so.

^Agreed.

As my best firend said; Having sex for the first time is only different from any other time, in the way that it's over far to fast and you have no idea what your doing.

And you discover that hip-bones hurt. XD

[barkingM1]

Aroihkin wrote...

MorGothic wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

I love this thread. Not coherent enough for much more than that right now, but... yeah. The "virginity is what makes it special!" argument makes me gag every time I see it, sorry. Just... no. No. Just because that's their emotional kink, doesn't make it so.

^Agreed.

As my best firend said; Having sex for the first time is only different from any other time, in the way that it's over far to fast and you have no idea what your doing.

And you discover that hip-bones hurt. XD

  And muscles cramp.

[Aroihkin]

Sarah1281 wrote...

barkingM1 wrote...

Aroihkin wrote...

Sarah and Herr have the right of it.
Not saying there couldn't/wouldn't be problems anyways, just saying folks don't have to pidgeon-hole themselves completely into earth history. Historically any female Warden would have had a hell of a lot more trouble than just some snark from Murdock, too, and if the world got saved it would have been "Alistair's doing" and aw, wasn't he strange for letting that girl play soldier.

Truth.  It's not an alternate history setting (magic & dragons, y'all). 

I know. This is a setting where the sexsm is about what it is today where some people don't like women fighting and it's certainly not a fifty-fifty split but if they're capable and willing no one's going to stop them from getting involved.

Legitimacy, on the other hand, has already been shown to be a huge issue as far as Alistair is concerned. All the nobles are so eager to have children to carry on their lines and stories about a brave maid/knight or whatever having the child right at the gates or dying in service of the Couslands and leaving a child orphaned and that child is the adopted HN? It just doesn't ring true. It's just like the situation with Alistair except more so as they don't have any noble blood. Certainly the Couslands could see that the child was taken care of and sent it to the Chantry or something but raising it? Alistair tells you that the reason Eamon raised him was because of Maric and everyone assumed his ward was his bastard son anyway. Noble adoption just didn't seem t happen in that setting. The idea that a noble would randomly take a child in and raise it goes against everything we know about Alistair's background and it makes sending him to the Chantry as no one believed he wasn't Eamon's completely pointless. I know everyone today thinks it was a horrible thing to do but from what we've been shown it's jus how things worked in Thedas.

In Alistair's case it's also the Theirin (spelling?) bloodline, which Fereldan society has practically made a cult of. The royal family, etc etc. I wouldn't find it too strange if a lesser noble house adopted, though the Couslands are very "this is our blood" as well.

Honestly for a PC I think it could be played either way. Even as a male Cousland you're not the proper heir to the title, you're the younger brother of the heir to the title.

...And this is also the game-canon that can then turn around and make an elven mage into an Arl/Arlessa without anyone apparently blinking, so. XD

Edit: typos.

Edit 2: Also, it was Isolde's problem with it that had Alistair tossed into the Chantry IIRC, not because Eamon was under that much pressure before her. This is the same woman who hired Jowan to teach her kid basic magic so he could "hide it" because she was oh-so ashamed and horrified at having birthed a mage.

Modifié par Aroihkin, 24 avril 2010 - 06:47 .

[MorGothic]

ejoslin wrote...

MorGothic wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Someone who's good at making character faces should make various Couslands. I think that's a great idea since I'm not going to do it. What do you think, MorGothic?

Was there a hint in there somewhere? I think I may have missed it. <_<

My subtlety is pretty amazing, isn't it 

Yes. <_< ( )

Hmm if I can get the character morphs to load in the toolset then I could do it easy, if not I will think about making them for scratch, but not this weekend.

Also I see a distinct lack of inscentives.

Still can't get that fight scene right in my head, if it wasn't one vs one (and the MC wasn't naked...), I'd be all right.
I find writing larger fights is easier...

[soignee]

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

[sami jo]

The thing with all the folks who go on and on about how they wouldn't touch Zev with a ten foot pole because "eww disease!" is that they do not level the same accusation against Morrigan and Leliana. Both of them make it quite clear that they are quite experienced and Lel tells you all about seducing a man to kill him. Normally that would bring down screams of "sl*t!" but it doesn't. Perhaps it's because those folks don't ever get that far with Morrigan and Lel pretends to be so sweet and pure until you actually listen to what she says. Actually, aside from Sten (who clearly isn't virginal but doesn't say much beyond that) and Shale who doesn't remember a time when such things would have been possible, Al is the only one of your companions who doesn't have a long list of former lovers. Even several non-recruitable NPCs make it clear that they would hook up with you (and some do). Yet Zev gets labeled the wh*re because he doesn't hide it. It's an odd phenomenon. Of course, pointing that fact out to those who are screaming about what an icky wh*re he is is an exercise in futility.

[Aroihkin]

Ugh, I tipe reel gud today too. Finger's got a little bit of oozyness to it this morning, but seems to be healing up. Still is a pain, though.

[sami jo]

soignee wrote...

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

But can turn into such a comedy of errors that it is worthy of being made into a movie (speaks from experience )

[sami jo]

Aroihkin wrote...

Ugh, I tipe reel gud today too. Finger's got a little bit of oozyness to it this morning, but seems to be healing up. Still is a pain, though.

*offers cookies for morale*

[Sarah1281]

sami jo wrote...

soignee wrote...

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

But can turn into such a comedy of errors that it is worthy of being made into a movie (speaks from experience )

You know, that's really not a glowing recommendation for virgins to give sex a whirl...

[soignee]

sami jo wrote...

The thing with all the folks who go on and on about how they wouldn't touch Zev with a ten foot pole because "eww disease!" is that they do not level the same accusation against Morrigan and Leliana. Both of them make it quite clear that they are quite experienced and Lel tells you all about seducing a man to kill him. Normally that would bring down screams of "sl*t!" but it doesn't. Perhaps it's because those folks don't ever get that far with Morrigan and Lel pretends to be so sweet and pure until you actually listen to what she says. Actually, aside from Sten (who clearly isn't virginal but doesn't say much beyond that) and Shale who doesn't remember a time when such things would have been possible, Al is the only one of your companions who doesn't have a long list of former lovers. Even several non-recruitable NPCs make it clear that they would hook up with you (and some do). Yet Zev gets labeled the wh*re because he doesn't hide it. It's an odd phenomenon. Of course, pointing that fact out to those who are screaming about what an icky wh*re he is is an exercise in futility.

Ah, s!ut shaming. How you make me rage.

Would mention I've seen Morrigan called all sorts of nasty things. Leliana never seems to get it, probably thanks to her duplicious persona, which is why I've never really warmed to her... Beyond the shoe thing. Oooh! Shoes!

[Bootsykk]

soignee wrote...

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

EDIT: Why am I sharing this? I'm going to go finish my drawing.

Modifié par Juneya, 24 avril 2010 - 06:57 .

[Herr Uhl]

soignee wrote...

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

Drunk off your ass with someone whose name you don't remember and you've never seen since.

...what?

[Minaleth]

sami jo wrote...

The thing with all the folks who go on and on about how they wouldn't touch Zev with a ten foot pole because "eww disease!" is that they do not level the same accusation against Morrigan and Leliana. Both of them make it quite clear that they are quite experienced and Lel tells you all about seducing a man to kill him. Normally that would bring down screams of "sl*t!" but it doesn't. Perhaps it's because those folks don't ever get that far with Morrigan and Lel pretends to be so sweet and pure until you actually listen to what she says. Actually, aside from Sten (who clearly isn't virginal but doesn't say much beyond that) and Shale who doesn't remember a time when such things would have been possible, Al is the only one of your companions who doesn't have a long list of former lovers. Even several non-recruitable NPCs make it clear that they would hook up with you (and some do). Yet Zev gets labeled the wh*re because he doesn't hide it. It's an odd phenomenon. Of course, pointing that fact out to those who are screaming about what an icky wh*re he is is an exercise in futility.

sami, I see your points and they are excellent, but I think the dislike towards Zevran has another source. He does hit on PC and this can be quite uncomfortable if the player does not like the character. There is no character that clicks with everyone and there will always be people that will instinctively dislike the character, the extra reason to rationalize their own (in fact irrational) dislike is just convenient point on their minus list. *end of amateur psychology intermezzo*

Modifié par Minaleth, 24 avril 2010 - 06:57 .

[barkingM1]

Sarah1281 wrote...

sami jo wrote...

soignee wrote...

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

But can turn into such a comedy of errors that it is worthy of being made into a movie (speaks from experience )

You know, that's really not a glowing recommendation for virgins to give sex a whirl...

Either that or a case for getting it over with & moving on to the good stuff. 

[Nonvita]

soignee wrote...

All good points as usualllll Nonvita! Keep talking like that and I'll steal you away from Knight and Herr and you can join my harem.

Yeah, Missa's approach to sex is wildly different to Alistair's too, but Missa aldo thinks Alistair can be a bit wet around the ears. Not that she minds, she gets to boss him about then.

@Webbedfeet: Ahhh Alistair/Cousland fangirls. Yeahhhh. *looks at the many, many couscous/ali fics on ff.net fics* I know what you mean.

Awwwww, I love you, Soignee!  But can I bring Herr and Knight with me? I need something to do while you and Charsen are going at it... :innocent:

And hey! Don't include Princess in that utterly inferior group of specimens.

Herr Uhl wrote...

soignee wrote...

First
Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

Drunk off your
ass with someone whose name you don't remember and you've never seen
since.

...what?

You sound a little bitter there, Herr. Need a hug?


Can we get a shoutout for unmemorable first times? Or is that just me?...

Modifié par Nonvita, 24 avril 2010 - 07:00 .

[webbedfeet]

@aroihkin : Re virginity as an emotional kink : There is something to be said for being the first person to share a significant experience with another person for the first time. I just figure the value should lie in the emotional aspect of it (i.e. discovering something new about your relationship, which you can totally do with ALL your LIs) rather than the physical, but then again, I'm just not in touch with my physical side in general and may be missing something. As with all things, I suppose I should be contented to call it YMMV, even though the argument vexes me. *sigh* (No, I'm not arguing with you, in case I don't make myself clear. Which is often.)

Another point, I suppose, would be that Alistair's virginity isn't really his choice. It's a forced issue in his upbringing, much like promiscuity was a forced issue in Zev's or Lel's or arguably Mo-Mo's. Therefore it baffles me that it should be used as a yardstick for his value as a romantic partner or as a person; judging from his approval rise-and-fall, wouldn't he be as experienced as your average Fereldan if he didn't grow up in the Chantry? He certainly doesn't view sex as some dirty thing. Why do we?

@ejoslin : I would rant, but it really would be a long tirade. XD I suppose the short version would be "Do people realize that Thedas' sexual mores are more along the lines of Morrigan than Alistair? And if they don't, is it because his being the most likable character at the start colored their perceptions, or if, as argumentative as it sounds, it's because they try to find something in his character that agrees with their personal perceptions?"

That is one long sentence. Also on your second rant : because a penis is dirtier than a vagina, of course. You wouldn't want that thing sticking into you! Women are self-cleaning and pure as long as their heart is true!

Modifié par webbedfeet, 24 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[sami jo]

Sarah1281 wrote...

sami jo wrote...

soignee wrote...

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

But can turn into such a comedy of errors that it is worthy of being made into a movie (speaks from experience )

You know, that's really not a glowing recommendation for virgins to give sex a whirl...

First time resulted in:
* 1 concussion
* 1 sprained wrist
* Angry neighbor in apartment below about the loud crash that caused said concussion and sprained wrist
* flying condoms
* discovery of latex allergy in the worst way possible
* most embarrassing trip to the ER ever
* visit from police who did not believe the story of how concussion came to be
* hysterical laughter from roommate (who I had teased mercilessly about loud sex with his boyfriend) and regular retelling of that story by that roommate (including a telling at my wedding...to a completely different man)

We got it right the second time.

[ejoslin]

Me! Weee. Yeh, ummm, ok.

Edit: But at LEAST no latex allergies or injuries involved.  Egads, sami jo!

Modifié par ejoslin, 24 avril 2010 - 07:03 .

[soignee]

sami jo wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...

sami jo wrote...

soignee wrote...

First Times: Not As Good As The Movies Make Out.

But can turn into such a comedy of errors that it is worthy of being made into a movie (speaks from experience )

You know, that's really not a glowing recommendation for virgins to give sex a whirl...

First time resulted in:
* 1 concussion
* 1 sprained wrist
* Angry neighbor in apartment below about the loud crash that caused said concussion and sprained wrist
* flying condoms
* discovery of latex allergy in the worst way possible
* most embarrassing trip to the ER ever
* visit from police who did not believe the story of how concussion came to be
* hysterical laughter from roommate (who I had teased mercilessly about loud sex with his boyfriend) and regular retelling of that story by that roommate (including a telling at my wedding...to a completely different man)

We got it right the second time.

Are you sure that's not from the American Pie sequel? Because damnnnnnnnnnn.

I loll'd, Sami- not going to lie.