174 réponses à ce sujet

[LuckyBullet95]

Striker93175 wrote...

Only way to remove speed runs is random spawns... a few enemies at a time, and 0 ability to control a spawn.

3 from spawn a at the same time 5 from spawn b and d. 2 sec later a b and c all spawn 2 enemies, following by spawn a 6 enemies, half a sec later spawn a and spawn d. 10 second later all spawns drop 2 enemies, then a, c and d spawn 6... etc. entire team at a spawn point b? ... sorry 5 enemies just suddenly appear on top of you literally from no where. deal with it.

EDIT:  Also, not an exploit.  Sorry OP.

EDIT EDIT:  Also, get a lobby of friends and simply delete the DLC.  Speed run and farm all you want w/ old maps. *shrug*

That'd be great and all but only 8 enemies spawn at a time so that wouldn't be possible. Besides rocketting doesn't really quicken waves up by THAT much.

[78stonewobble]

upinya slayin wrote...

the thing you have to remember is spawns are not fixed. each map has at least 4-7 spawn points on them, they need to be forced into an area by proper positioining. on top of that you still need to wipe out enemies while out in the open w/o dying. not every enemy is killed by a missile. also you need to get an angle on the spawn and actually hit with the missile. if someone is out os posisition it can elad to a teammate getting what i call "spawn raped" which is when enemies spawn on both sides of you in an open area.

A random spawn still wouldn't matter becuase you can have all 4 people eyeing 2 possible spawns each and immediatly rocketing them. it would actually be easier IMO. just posiiton 1 player in a spot where they can hit 2 spawns each if need be and the waves would be fast as hell you wouldn't even have to move lol. like glacier. balcony hits nook and LZ, basement stayys in the basement and hits it if they spawn on top, 1 in the darkroom for that spawn and 1 in the hallway. you could clear a wave w/o even moving.

and giving them spawn immunity makes no sense. you want to give them 5 seconds to attack you while invincible? you do know they have a 1-3 second immunity after appearing already right? you have to time it good enough to pass teh immunity but not let them spread.

If you liek camping i have no problem with that. eveyrone plays differntly. I sued to camp while i worked my way up on the skils ladder. we'd pick a room on each map and hold it down. it got boring though sitting in one spot and felt too easy after a while. The idea is to kill things. Its not fun sitting in a spot waiting for an enemy to come to you IMO. but if you enjoy the slower pace (kinda like how SP is) thats fine with me. But even SP insanity mode bored me now. MP is where the fun is at

I know they're not fixed per say but as you say proper positioning can "fix" the spawns in place. Even if you get caught out of position you can (Personally i can't remember everything yet) anticipate where they will come from down to the second.

To me it just seems weird/cheap/exploitive (a little of each) that I can take 2 steps to the right. Then take 2 steps to the left and I've relieved the pressure of my teammates by "allowing" enemies to spawn on my flank.

So what I meant by "random" spawning was something like having reapers crawl over every edge of firebase white as an example  ... Wholly unpredictable... But with the engine as it is / maps small it would lead to way too much "MAN THE AI IS CHEAP!" moments.

In any case all I'm saying is that some of us like to be campy at times and have fun with that.

PS: I play u/u/s so it's not like I've been farming any map ad libitum. I like to camp in ALL of them.

[78stonewobble]

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Are we assuming these speed runners are talentless scrubs that can't play the game when not speed running?

To adjust the game at this point for speed running would be beyond stupid, most have maxed their manifest already. The problem here as with a lot of topics on BSN is someone is incapable of doing something that others do well and thinks it should be eliminated. Let everyone play the game the way they want.

Nope... but ... It's not everybody's cup of fun.

After thinking about I do find it a little unfair / silly that on a given difficulty you get more credits per hour if you can relatively "breeze" through it than if you're struggling hard (taking a long time).

[LuckyBullet95]

mjb203 wrote...

Edit: explorative should be exploitative.

No, I don't believe the average white camper could. And yeah, a lot of the campers were clearly trying to play above their skill level. And truth be told, I'm still not real comfortable in gold. I have no mic (which is an easy way to get booted, although thankfully all matches I've been in on gold have been pretty silent).

At least it seems we're coming from similar standpoints here, even if I do believe manipulation of spawns is as explorative as FBW camping was. But for the most part, it seems speed runners keep those matches on private, which is what FBW campers should have done from the start (or as I stated earlier, make those intentions known before starting the match).

To be honest I usually trun those kind of match anyways... I just don't camp with them. I'll usually let them block what spawns they block and then block say, the LZ to force a spawn in the upper basement area. I'll also usuallly use the basement as a giant decoy, flanking what enemies do get down their before they can do much of anything to the campers.

I also think it's better to at least camp somewhere then to speedrun if you aren't familiar with it. If I run pug (rarely I run anything now but...) then I always get a faster time if I'm the only one running and gunning (especially on Glacier) because then I always know where my team area (what spawns they are blocking) and don't have players who don't have the knowledge I do trying to do what I'm doing and only ending up blocking spawns and not communicating to me what spawn they are at. This means I know exactly where the position myself to try and force full spawns at X spot or where enemies are likely to spawn after I kill them (usually behind me). I remember getting a 16.41 Glacier run in PU with three people camping the rule of shame. Certain not a fast time but when one of the players joined me for the run and gun fun the next game the time dropped to about 19 minutes because what spawns should have been behind me were across the map or in the basement (if enemies can't spawn two spawn points away from you they'll spawn at any point you, an objective or your team aren't occupying)

[ryoldschool]

It does not take a lot to figure out that firing one missile into spawn points on selected waves is taking advantage of game mechanics because you can predict where they will occur. Eventually bioware will address this tactic .

[OuterRim]

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

OuterRim wrote...

There is little difference between Speedrunning and Camping. Both have the same goal: to easily earn credits, hence both are farming techniques.

Ummm wrong. Speed runs about getting the fastest time. The credits are just a bonus,

I have no doubt that in some cases that is true, but most are looking for fast credits. Nothing wrong with that. I'm just not in denial about it.

[Rokayt]

Speedrunning is a celebrated hobby in most games, while the spawn missileing is a little cheap.... Its easy to fix too. Just make the spawns less tight.

[LuckyBullet95]

78stonewobble wrote...

NuclearTech76 wrote...

Are we assuming these speed runners are talentless scrubs that can't play the game when not speed running?

To adjust the game at this point for speed running would be beyond stupid, most have maxed their manifest already. The problem here as with a lot of topics on BSN is someone is incapable of doing something that others do well and thinks it should be eliminated. Let everyone play the game the way they want.

Nope... but ... It's not everybody's cup of fun.

After thinking about I do find it a little unfair / silly that on a given difficulty you get more credits per hour if you can relatively "breeze" through it than if you're struggling hard (taking a long time).

"you get more credits per hour if you don't take a long time" well done sherlock, have a cookie, maybe you should rest aswell, must've been hard figuring that out./sarcasm

Seriously, we can breeze through it because we are that damn good... well actually that's a lie. We can breeze through because we have an in-depth of spawn patterns and spawnbudgets that allow us to play highly aggressively whilst not dying. It's a matter if perspective on rockets. On camp farming like on White for example. Rockets were only dropped if too much got inside the basement (such as three Primes). Speedrunners, take these enemies out at the start fo the wave whilst also catching three or four more Pyros or Brutes in the blast. Instead of killing two Banshees and a Brute worth 270 points of the spawn budget, we are killing two Banshees, a Brute, two Ravagers, two Marauders and a Cannibal worth 570 points of the spawn budget.

If you think it's unfair maybe you should try. You will have no problem breezing through Hydra in twelve minutes.

[Razerath]

The reason camping is even close to being "looked down upon by speedrunners" is because it's much easier to speed run maps for credits and hardly takes more skill.

On Gold...

Camping FBW or any map - 20-25ish minutes. Boring. Static.
Speedrunning w/out tactics Glacier - 14-16ish minutes. Fun, exciting. Dynamic.
Speedrunning w/tactics Glacier - Under 11-10 minutes. Challenging. Rewarding. Equipment draining.

I am just saying, if you think campfarming is the best way to get credits you are wrong. Campfarming is looked down upon because the difference between camping a map and running a map is LAZINESS, not skill.

[LuckyBullet95]

Rokayt wrote...

Speedrunning is a celebrated hobby in most games, while the spawn missileing is a little cheap.... Its easy to fix too. Just make the spawns less tight.

Again it doesn't make much difference. A group ran a 15.51 London, Platinum, Reapers without rockets.

[Elfonztm]

What? WHAT?! Seriously? Is speedrunning an exploit? No it isn't, it's just the way the Pro players play the game.

[Rokayt]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

Rokayt wrote...

Speedrunning is a celebrated hobby in most games, while the spawn missileing is a little cheap.... Its easy to fix too. Just make the spawns less tight.

Again it doesn't make much difference. A group ran a 15.51 London, Platinum, Reapers without rockets.

Speedrunning is honorable, and generally celebrated.

I dont see the problem, as long as people are not just missiling the spawns every round and calling it GG-No-Reves before they get shot.

[Beerfish]

Nothing at all wrong with speed running at all (other then when people took a dive on the last wave). As said earlier some method of there not being a sure fire spawn control would be a very good thing.

[ZiRK]

Worst thread ever.

[78stonewobble]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

"you get more credits per hour if you don't take a long time" well done sherlock, have a cookie, maybe you should rest aswell, must've been hard figuring that out./sarcasm

Seriously, we can breeze through it because we are that damn good... well actually that's a lie. We can breeze through because we have an in-depth of spawn patterns and spawnbudgets that allow us to play highly aggressively whilst not dying. It's a matter if perspective on rockets. On camp farming like on White for example. Rockets were only dropped if too much got inside the basement (such as three Primes). Speedrunners, take these enemies out at the start fo the wave whilst also catching three or four more Pyros or Brutes in the blast. Instead of killing two Banshees and a Brute worth 270 points of the spawn budget, we are killing two Banshees, a Brute, two Ravagers, two Marauders and a Cannibal worth 570 points of the spawn budget.

If you think it's unfair maybe you should try. You will have no problem breezing through Hydra in twelve minutes.

All im saying is that good players are awarded quite a bit more credits due to being able to handle higher difficulties. That is as it should be.

However, on a given difficulty setting, people who are struggling will most likely take longer and thus subjectively experience a higher difficulty. These people get less reward than someone who had a relatively easier time. Which is exactly opposite.

It does depend on cost of consumables and stuff like that but still... seems a little self contradictory if bigger difficulty should equal more credits.

From a certain point of view people get more credits by being in the lobby more often per hour than in the game and that seems silly.

[Razerath]

Beerfish wrote...

Nothing at all wrong with speed running at all (other then when people took a dive on the last wave). As said earlier some method of there not being a sure fire spawn control would be a very good thing.

"... not being a sure fire spawn control would be a very good thing."

Spawn control is too dominant. Simply put, we have enough players to cover all enemies all the time. BioWare would have to not only split every spawn ( so missiles wouldn't be as effective ) but they would also have to up the enemy count.

Funny with the new gear, speed running is going to be easier. Especially on Glacier. Expect to see several sub 10 minute runs on that map!

[JerZey CJ]

My reaction to this thread

[riotlord]

I wish I can speed run but I do not have the right weapons. lol I can clear gold, but I am reliant on biotic classes, or the engineer. (mainly casters)
Camping is just boring, even when I snipe I roam the map and kite. The quickest my friend and I cleared gold with randoms was 19mins vs reapers and 21 or so vs cerebus. With the advent of the patch that went up to 25? (havent played collectors on gold yet, but on silver it takes 22-25 mins to clear right now.) People just drop like flies vs them.(its hilarious on rio)

[Uh Cold]

Also my reaction to this thread.

[Ashen One]

Oh look, this trollbait thread is still alive.

[LuckyBullet95]

78stonewobble wrote...

LuckyBullet95 wrote...

"you get more credits per hour if you don't take a long time" well done sherlock, have a cookie, maybe you should rest aswell, must've been hard figuring that out./sarcasm

Seriously, we can breeze through it because we are that damn good... well actually that's a lie. We can breeze through because we have an in-depth of spawn patterns and spawnbudgets that allow us to play highly aggressively whilst not dying. It's a matter if perspective on rockets. On camp farming like on White for example. Rockets were only dropped if too much got inside the basement (such as three Primes). Speedrunners, take these enemies out at the start fo the wave whilst also catching three or four more Pyros or Brutes in the blast. Instead of killing two Banshees and a Brute worth 270 points of the spawn budget, we are killing two Banshees, a Brute, two Ravagers, two Marauders and a Cannibal worth 570 points of the spawn budget.

If you think it's unfair maybe you should try. You will have no problem breezing through Hydra in twelve minutes.

All im saying is that good players are awarded quite a bit more credits due to being able to handle higher difficulties. That is as it should be.

However, on a given difficulty setting, people who are struggling will most likely take longer and thus subjectively experience a higher difficulty. These people get less reward than someone who had a relatively easier time. Which is exactly opposite.

It does depend on cost of consumables and stuff like that but still... seems a little self contradictory if bigger difficulty should equal more credits.

From a certain point of view people get more credits by being in the lobby more often per hour than in the game and that seems silly.

There's a reason it goes quicker. It's because you aren't camping. There is little to know travel time for enemies. It's because you are communicating. You can easily focus fire enemies and never have a teammates not doing something. It's because you are already as close as possible to every possible objective spawn allowing you to never have to travel between them very often. It is because those who don't camp tend to be able to play  more aggressively and therefore can do mcuh more damage before needing to recover from the high DPS of the enemy. Overall, a good player should be able to both run and gun and camping (this doesn't mean speedrunning, an average run and gun match featuring four friends with communication should run on to a max of 18 minutes depending on map and that's without strategy)

Overall the run and gun playstyle is high risk, high reward. If you don't know what you are doing you're gonna have a bad time. If you don't know what your doing whilst camping you just follow what others are doing, you can easily join someone in the basement and shoot what arrives, yo ucan't suddenly meld your mind with the speedrunner and gain their knowledge of the spawn budget, enemy spawn patterns and spawn control.

We aren't taking an path of least resistance, if we were then many more would be speedrunning and White and Glacier wouldn't be so pronounced in PUGs that BioWare felt it neccessary to change them.

[tMc Tallgeese]

I think I made a mistake earlier in giving my opinion.

[78stonewobble]

LuckyBullet95 wrote...
There's a reason it goes quicker. It's because you aren't camping. There is little to know travel time for enemies. It's because you are communicating. You can easily focus fire enemies and never have a teammates not doing something. It's because you are already as close as possible to every possible objective spawn allowing you to never have to travel between them very often. It is because those who don't camp tend to be able to play  more aggressively and therefore can do mcuh more damage before needing to recover from the high DPS of the enemy. Overall, a good player should be able to both run and gun and camping (this doesn't mean speedrunning, an average run and gun match featuring four friends with communication should run on to a max of 18 minutes depending on map and that's without strategy)

Overall the run and gun playstyle is high risk, high reward. If you don't know what you are doing you're gonna have a bad time. If you don't know what your doing whilst camping you just follow what others are doing, you can easily join someone in the basement and shoot what arrives, yo ucan't suddenly meld your mind with the speedrunner and gain their knowledge of the spawn budget, enemy spawn patterns and spawn control.

We aren't taking an path of least resistance, if we were then many more would be speedrunning and White and Glacier wouldn't be so pronounced in PUGs that BioWare felt it neccessary to change them.

I am talking about relative or subjective difficulty.

[nicethugbert]

So, OP does not want to camp, but does not want to run. Therefore he wants to walk. BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOORRRRRRRRRRRIIIIIIIIIIIINNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGG.

[Invader Nemesis]

Seneva wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

Since when doing something that requires skill an exploit?

Since FBW and glacier got changed and people are mad

Yeah well they need to get over it.

Yeah well, you haters need to get over it.

Get over what exactly?