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How do you incorporate Hawke and the Warden back into the story w/o actaully playing as them??


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#26
AppealToReason

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silentspec111 wrote...

Personally I would love to see them or hear about them in DA3 but they are such a sensitive and touchy issue to most people out here.

I think bioware would be wise to not have them in their game at all.Maybe a Codex entry to what happened to them. Atleast it will save BSN from 100's of threads like
"Bioware that dosent sound like my warden"
"Bioware what did you do to my warden's face you ruined the DA series for me. The whole game is broken to me now"
"Bioware you did not highlight the fact warden/hawke did this or that side quest and you ruined immersion"(no matter how insignificant that side mission was)
"Bioware my warden is too nice/sarcastic/aggresive.....you ruined them for me...you ruined the game...ruined the DA universe...you betrayed us..you lied to us"

Tbh maybe I am being a bit too cynical about this or maybe lack of any info about DA3 is making me all cranky and grumpy. But i rather Bioware stay away from it that this whole issue derailing the game and every topic at BSN


I find myself agreeing with this. I'd rather see whining like "Wah bioware you ruined my gaming life because you didn't bring back (_________) and now I can never game again as everything is ruined!" than anything you listed

#27
LTD

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BevH wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

LTD wrote...

Hawke could appear as a name on a huge pile of papers that gets burned to ashes in ritualistic retcon purification of anything that reminds of existance of DA II from canon.

Loads of ways to refer to Warden in atmospheric and tasteful fashion, specially if he is dead. Which he prolly should be by now, been long enough since DA:O by the time events of DA3 begin ay? My memory is highly flaky here but..indeed, is there any reason to assume Warden is alive, even? The whole Darkspawn blood drinking Biz, how fast is it bound to kill him again? How long since he drank it at the end of DA2?


Darkspawn Tain kills you in 30 years or so. The Warden only drank the taint 7-9 years prior by DAII's conclusion.

According to Alistair it's "30 years... give or take." And I recall that the end of Varric's tale was 10 years after the warden's joining. So Lelianna and Cassandra have their conversation in 41 Dragon... give or take.


I must confess, I'm mildly disappointed it was such a long time. Doesn't make much of an..element. I recalled it were something little more cruel. Like decade or such.That would have given Wardern something to consider at least! YOU WILL BE DEAD IN THIRTY YEARS!! Doesn't exactly reek of drama..certainly not in Dark Fantasy RPG World©   Hmm. Five years. I would have wanted five years. Like in that Bowie song.

Modifié par LTD, 12 octobre 2012 - 01:05 .


#28
Todd23

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Plus I let Avernus live and encouraged his experiments. I'm pretty sure he can give my warden more years. Or teach him how to do it himself.

Modifié par Todd23, 12 octobre 2012 - 01:10 .


#29
deuce985

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I don't think you can.

How are you going to introduce a PC to the story when we crafted his/her personality and looks? Unless Bioware allowed us to edit their appearance and control their personality, it would be impossible without rage all over.

#30
Urazz

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Well, they can introduce Hawke back in the story quite easily if they use the default Hawke appearance and have uploaded DA2 save remember Hawke's dominant personality to use in DA3. Of course they can transfer the player's Hawke's look to DA3 if not modded but that would require more work I think.  Having Hawke's personality uploaded from the DA2 save can work to allow some more lines from him in his/her cameo.

The warden will be harder though due to no default appearance, and no personality like Hawke in DA2. But if they are able to transfer the looks of the player's warden as well, then that could work. Or they could come up with a default appearance for each race/gender of the Warden.  The Warden though probably won't speak much due to personality system like DA2 to help your warden speak like you without you picking the options.

Modifié par Urazz, 12 octobre 2012 - 01:37 .


#31
LanceSolous13

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Urazz wrote...

Well, they can introduce Hawke back in the story quite easily if they use the default Hawke appearance and have uploaded DA2 save remember Hawke's dominant personality to use in DA3. Of course they can transfer the player's Hawke's look to DA3 if not modded but that would require more work I think.

The warden will be harder though due to no default appearance, and no personality like in DA2. But if they are able to transfer the looks of the player's warden as well, then that could work. Or they could come up with a default appearance for each race/gender of the Warden.


I would rather not be forced into the default Hawke appearence. I spent hours making mine for the sole reason that that's how I play an RPG. I make things my own. That's what you do in an RPG. It is the defenition of Role-Playing Game.

And, please for the love of god don't make default persionality choices and appearences and ete for the Warden. As I said with Hawke, I spent hours building a persionality for each Warden and an appearence and an LI for each of them.

My Male Elven Mage hates the Templar's control over the Circle of Magi but in a much more passive agressive manner. He is not religious in any form but freely accepts blessings out of respect for other's beliefs. He romanced Morrigan, followed through with the Dark Ritual, and passed through the Eluvian to raise his son with her (That's my headcanon until DAIII says otherwise). During Awakening, He murdered the Mother and the Architect.

My Female Human Nobel Rogue became Queen of Fereldan and took matters seriously instead of sacrastically like my Mage did. She was true to the ideal of Andrastate but believed the Templars' grip on the Mages was far too strong after seeing what occured in the Circle tower. She slew the High Dragon and protected the Urn of Andrastate. She happily romanced Alister and become Queen of Fereldan at the game's conclusion.

I don't want either of them to be put into the exact same role with the exact same lines. It doesn't do the character built in a union between the players and Bioware justice.

#32
AppealToReason

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LTD wrote...

BevH wrote...
According to Alistair it's "30 years... give or take." And I recall that the end of Varric's tale was 10 years after the warden's joining. So Lelianna and Cassandra have their conversation in 41 Dragon... give or take.


I must confess, I'm mildly disappointed it was such a long time. Doesn't make much of an..element. I recalled it were something little more cruel. Like decade or such.That would have given Wardern something to consider at least! YOU WILL BE DEAD IN THIRTY YEARS!! Doesn't exactly reek of drama..certainly not in Dark Fantasy RPG World©   Hmm. Five years. I would have wanted five years. Like in that Bowie song.



Yeah except that whole "Yeah like 40% of people die during the ritual too" thing

#33
LanceSolous13

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And the fact that not many people even live that long while out adventuring and ete.

#34
AppealToReason

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Urazz wrote...

Well, they can introduce Hawke back in the story quite easily if they use the default Hawke appearance and have uploaded DA2 save remember Hawke's dominant personality to use in DA3. Of course they can transfer the player's Hawke's look to DA3 if not modded but that would require more work I think.  Having Hawke's personality uploaded from the DA2 save can work to allow some more lines from him in his/her cameo.

The warden will be harder though due to no default appearance, and no personality like Hawke in DA2. But if they are able to transfer the looks of the player's warden as well, then that could work. Or they could come up with a default appearance for each race/gender of the Warden.  The Warden though probably won't speak much due to personality system like DA2 to help your warden speak like you without you picking the options.


It would be super easy to get around the face thing. 

You meet him post battle,
"Serrah, wouldn't this conversation be easier without your helmet on."
"Ah yes, but it appears to be stuck. How convenient. I have a terrible zit."

Same goes for the Warden. Have him pimped out in BAMFy warden armor with a beastly bucket on.
"Oooo EMM GEE? Iz u da hero of Fereldan?"
"Mhmm"
*generic warden soldier* "We'd love to stay and chat but he must be going"
Blasted Warden's and their secrecy!

Modifié par AppealToReason, 12 octobre 2012 - 03:03 .


#35
LanceSolous13

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A cameo like that for them both would ****** me off.

I want to know what the Warden (and Morrigan/Anders/Leliana/Zevran) have been up to. I want to see his place in this conflict.

I want to know where Hawke (and Isabela/Merril/Anders/Fenris/Sebastian) have been and why they dissapeared after the War broke out.

A small cameo is not enough time to bring up something that is likely to be a huge plot point. Leliana herself states "This is no councidence".

Though, for my Warden, it just might be considering his dissapearence had nothing to do with Hawke.

#36
AppealToReason

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LanceSolous13 wrote...

A cameo like that for them both would ****** me off.

I want to know what the Warden (and Morrigan/Anders/Leliana/Zevran) have been up to. I want to see his place in this conflict.

I want to know where Hawke (and Isabela/Merril/Anders/Fenris/Sebastian) have been and why they dissapeared after the War broke out.

A small cameo is not enough time to bring up something that is likely to be a huge plot point. Leliana herself states "This is no councidence".

Though, for my Warden, it just might be considering his dissapearence had nothing to do with Hawke.


It'll probably be something quite breif or nothing at all.

I'd honestly rather have nothing if given the choice. DA isn't a trilogy. Bringing those two back in the fold seems like wrapping up loose ends and there are so many variables involved that the internet would go full out internet on it if it wasn't perfectly how they imagined it.

#37
LanceSolous13

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But the fact remains that there are many loose ends to be tied up with both the Warden and Hawke.

#38
The Six Path of Pain

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Blessed Silence wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

You don't.

The Warden's story is over. Hawke sucked and should be avoided at all cost.


I don't want my people to come back.

My Warden ususally runs off with Alistair, so she's more than likely dead by now from the tainted blood in her.

My Hawke is with Sebastian ... and I see her as a defender of the Chantry with him.

And would like to leave it at that.

Dude it takes 30 or so years for the taint to start kicking in,the Warden became a Grey Warden at 9:30 Dragon and by the end of DA2 it was 9:40 Dragon.Your Warden has roughly a good 20 years or so before the calling starts she's fine:D

#39
DRobin13

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I think we will only see our Warden but not acctually hear them talk since a voice would ruin the vision of everyone's individual Warden, maybe a letter from our Warden. As a warden their not permited to interfer w/ political matters but may be forced to.

As far as Hawke we may have a short conversation with him/her since there was a preset voice for both a male and female Hawke and it'd be easier for everyone to see that as their Hawke. I don't think they'll be companions & I persoanlly wouldn't want them to be, at least not in this game.

#40
Emzamination

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Blessed Silence wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

You don't.

The Warden's story is over. Hawke sucked and should be avoided at all cost.


I don't want my people to come back.

My Warden ususally runs off with Alistair, so she's more than likely dead by now from the tainted blood in her.

My Hawke is with Sebastian ... and I see her as a defender of the Chantry with him.

And would like to leave it at that.


Sebastian is not a real romance because he doesn't have a romance flag of any sort.Yes he proposes but the relationship is never recognized by the game (purposeful). Whatever illusion of romance you have effectively ends storywise Friendship or Rivalry with the death of the grand cleric.

Modifié par Emzamination, 12 octobre 2012 - 06:10 .


#41
thats1evildude

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LTD wrote...

I must confess, I'm mildly disappointed it was such a long time. Doesn't make much of an..element. I recalled it were something little more cruel. Like decade or such.That would have given Wardern something to consider at least! YOU WILL BE DEAD IN THIRTY YEARS!! Doesn't exactly reek of drama..certainly not in Dark Fantasy RPG World©   Hmm. Five years. I would have wanted five years. Like in that Bowie song.


It'd be rather impractical for the Wardens' life expectancy to be so short. How would they be able to keep the Joining a secret if their members were constantly dropping off like flies? And really, who would join the Wardens if that were the case?

Modifié par thats1evildude, 12 octobre 2012 - 06:16 .


#42
Thrillian

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I don't really see how it is possible and I would rather not see nor hear about Hawke or the Warden. Their story is done, it's time for a new hero.

#43
LanceSolous13

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Except, You know, Leliana makes a clear point in the last min of the game to state that Hawke and the Warden's dissapearence are no accident making it an important plot point.

#44
InfinitePaths

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xsamplexample wrote...

 I saw somewhere the creative lead of DA mentioned that Hawke/Warden are done, but they may show up again...

How do you guys suppose they will impliment this?  I mean, are we going to have a three way convo between the DA3 protag/Hawke/Warden where you choose all dialouge?  Are we going to get them as party members?  

Speculate away


They said that the Waren's story is done but not Hawke's.

#45
RandomSyhn

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At some point both the Warden and Hawke are caught by the seeker perhaps and brought to the inquisitor for questioning, Hawke can keep their dominent personality trait while the warden says absolutley nothing. Eventually you could be responsible for their escape and the three heros work at saving Thedas. Or an execution, because the developers can.

Modifié par RandomSyhn, 12 octobre 2012 - 05:17 .


#46
Palipride47

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Blessed Silence wrote...

ShadyKat wrote...

You don't.

The Warden's story is over. Hawke sucked and should be avoided at all cost.


I don't want my people to come back.

My Warden ususally runs off with Alistair, so she's more than likely dead by now from the tainted blood in her.

My Hawke is with Sebastian ... and I see her as a defender of the Chantry with him.

And would like to leave it at that.


Agreed. There is no way Bioware could completely satisfy me if they integrated the Warden or Hawke visibly into my game.

Someone mentioned they should bring back Hawke with default face. I never played default Hawke face, so having my very dark skinned Hawke turned into default face would ****** me (and everyone who didn't use his/her face) off to no end. Fair skinned Izzy racism debates were bad enough, thank you. 

I think they gave the non-joining-Morrigan Wardens a reason to disappear in Witch Hunt, with some lines about "you need to worry about Flemeth, she's not even human, I was horribly wrong." and the "I have a gift for you, its over there with that Dalish book I borrowed" line.
They should roll with that, since you could make it be that whole info on who the "puppetmaster" is, and My Warden disapeared to stop the chaos, which doesn't exactly violate any decisions you made, just changes the motivations. 
However, there is the whole bit with Hero of Fereldan being all dead and junk, and the Cassandra "Just like the Warden..." line kinda messed that up. Unless they are referring to that Warden Commander of Amaranthine, which *brain throbbing before I even get to missing Hawke*

Glad I don't have their job. 

Modifié par Palipride47, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:16 .


#47
Ghorlak

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I think to include the Warden, the solution passes through the warden's keep DLC, with Avernus and his research. Hawke in turn was very much alive, according to Varric, but disappeared somewhere in Thedas ...

#48
Palipride47

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Ghorlak wrote...

I think to include the Warden, the solution passes through the warden's keep DLC, with Avernus and his research. Hawke in turn was very much alive, according to Varric, but disappeared somewhere in Thedas ...

 
Is there no room for the possibility that Varric is wrong and Hawke is actually dead? Unlikely to happen, but certainly the easiest solution (killed by group he/she opposed, LI killed too if they traveled together).  And the BSN would be set aflame with the ferocity of every Cullen or romance thread ever made on here.

And then they can retcon "dead" Hawke back for DA4. 

#49
LanceSolous13

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Palipride47 wrote...

Ghorlak wrote...

I think to include the Warden, the solution passes through the warden's keep DLC, with Avernus and his research. Hawke in turn was very much alive, according to Varric, but disappeared somewhere in Thedas ...

 
Is there no room for the possibility that Varric is wrong and Hawke is actually dead? Unlikely to happen, but certainly the easiest solution (killed by group he/she opposed, LI killed too if they traveled together).  And the BSN would be set aflame with the ferocity of every Cullen or romance thread ever made on here.

And then they can retcon "dead" Hawke back for DA4. 


I believe the developers mentioned something about deleting a scene that involved Varric and Hawke reuiniting at the end of DAII and Varric saying he didn't reveal... I can't remember if it was Hawke's location or something else.

Certainly got that impression from the way Varric says "Then I wish I could help you."

#50
cindercatz

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I definitely want to see my Wardens back, badly. I didn't replay the game five times just to watch my Wardens disappear. I want them voiced, I want them to reflect whatever major status choices I made with them, and I want them in the game.

How?
Integrate them into the main plot wherever they each make the most sense, or for whatever plot they have in mind if it's after the Warden's disappearance. Yes, a cameo appearance, but a major one at least on par with the major cameos in DA2. At least that.

Get all the possible Wardens in this particular game because of the oversight of not including them in DA2 even though most LIs were present. In the future, if a particular Warden doesn't have any reason to show up (like if there's no Fereldan royalty, a monarch Warden might not make sense, just as an example), then that version just doesn't show up. Just integrate them, don't shoehorn them where they shouldn't be.

Give us the ability to import and edit their appearance or just edit them from preset options (preferably as a pre-game option right along with character creation).

Give us the ability to clarify the Warden's stance on the issues, seperate from our import decisions. (Friendly to elves? Pro-mage, pro-templar? Opinion on dwarves? the big easy true/false questions, and then Religious stance, probably, though they should be able to get that from imports) That way there is no contradiction on what you would have your Warden do were you controlling them and what they'll have done off-screen in the game.

Give them six different VAs to reflect wherever they come from (or less if you have an actor that can do multiple credible accents), and treat them like a set of six major NPCs, just like former companions.

*IF* there's enough budget room or the cost is practically the same, then go ahead and let us choose a personality template exactly like Hawke's set of personalities. Otherwise, go with what's closest to the in game Warden. The Warden, no matter how you played them, was pretty terse. Every response was a one line thing, no matter what choice you chose, so build the personality up from that. (not saying they should be restricted to one liners, but there are no prolifically wisecracking or soliloquy spouting Wardens, even if your warden liked to joke here and there) So, matter of fact for the most part.

Just come up with a few different suits to reflect the class of the Warden and a few weapon sets if we ever see them fighting. No need to import armor and weapons and all that. class specializations would be cool, WOW! moments to see in action, but not necessary.

For Hawke, just let us import and edit or choose a preset and edit just like the Warden, import the dominant personality, and give us the stance checklist. Have him/her show up wherever they disappeared off to, on one side or the other, with the chose LI, and that's it. Not hard, really.

For me, the Warden's a heck of a lot more important to see than Hawke, but I do want to see them both. There's zero reason they can't do both to exceed our expectations, never mind meet them. People just make things seem harder than they are, and they do it all the time. Just do it. Please don't worry about the boards. If people can't see it, just prove them wrong.