You kill them both via narrated dialogue so people stop asking for their return.
How do you incorporate Hawke and the Warden back into the story w/o actaully playing as them??
Débuté par
xsamplexample
, oct. 11 2012 12:32
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#52
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 12:46
DarkDragon777
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marshalleck wrote...
You kill them both via narrated dialogue so people stop asking for their return.
#53
Guest_Logan Cloud_*
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 12:49
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DarkDragon777 wrote...
marshalleck wrote...
You kill them both via narrated dialogue so people stop asking for their return.
I'd actually like that. It's getting annoying listening to how great the Warden was, or how much people love Hawke.
I loved 'em too, but that doesn't mean I need to see them non-stop.
#54
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 01:57
WardenWade
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Todd23 wrote...
Plus I let Avernus live and encouraged his experiments. I'm pretty sure he can give my warden more years. Or teach him how to do it himself.
This always seemed like a possibility to me too, Todd23, with the potion and letter you find in DA2 with an Avernus import and given the nature of his experiments.
#55
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 04:32
Mr_Steph
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LanceSolous13 wrote...
Except, You know, Leliana makes a clear point in the last min of the game to state that Hawke and the Warden's dissapearence are no accident making it an important plot point.
Except Leliana doesn't know. It could very well be an coincedence.
#56
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 05:09
AppealToReason
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Mr_Steph wrote...
LanceSolous13 wrote...
Except, You know, Leliana makes a clear point in the last min of the game to state that Hawke and the Warden's dissapearence are no accident making it an important plot point.
Except Leliana doesn't know. It could very well be an coincedence.
Could also be the Amaranthine Warden Commander.
#57
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 07:27
LanceSolous13
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Mr_Steph wrote...
LanceSolous13 wrote...
Except, You know, Leliana makes a clear point in the last min of the game to state that Hawke and the Warden's dissapearence are no accident making it an important plot point.
Except Leliana doesn't know. It could very well be an coincedence.
Erm... When an author chooses to end something on a cliffhanger and a key line of dialogue is 'This is no accident', That's usually a set in stone statement to not only the characters in a scene but also to the players/readers/audience of what to expect in the future.
They wouldn't have this intriguing set up and then say 'lol nah, it was just a coincedence'. In writing, or at least well written stories, NOTHING is a coincedence.
#58
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 08:18
esper
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LanceSolous13 wrote...
Mr_Steph wrote...
LanceSolous13 wrote...
Except, You know, Leliana makes a clear point in the last min of the game to state that Hawke and the Warden's dissapearence are no accident making it an important plot point.
Except Leliana doesn't know. It could very well be an coincedence.
Erm... When an author chooses to end something on a cliffhanger and a key line of dialogue is 'This is no accident', That's usually a set in stone statement to not only the characters in a scene but also to the players/readers/audience of what to expect in the future.
They wouldn't have this intriguing set up and then say 'lol nah, it was just a coincedence'. In writing, or at least well written stories, NOTHING is a coincedence.
The final line for Leliana was a bad, bad line and should never have been in the game, because off its implications.
That being said this is Leliana we are talking about. Miss 'I have a bad dream and see and a flower in bloom and think I am chosen by the Maker'. For me it is not coincidence, it is Leliana who wished to see a connection were there is none.
Sometimes writing makes a point out of saying that something is a coincidence and in Leliana's case we already know she has a... uniqe way of understanding things.
#59
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 08:41
Yalision
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Well my Warden is long dead by now, and who knows what the hell happened to my Hawke. If I could have killed him heroically too, I would have. Nice to have that sense of closure. Sigh. It was for this reason I never bought any of the DA2 DLC and stuck to my guns about it. Closure or no deal. Guess it was no deal in the end.
#60
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 08:51
LanceSolous13
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I see no reason for it to not have been in the game.
And, as I said, No writer would have an important line like that said and then retract its importance under the idea of 'She was seeing a connection where there was none' or 'it actually was a coincidence'. If it actually WAS Leliana jumping the gun or something of the like, There should have been an appropreate line from Cadandra to suggest such.
At the present time, We have no reason to doubt anything Leliana said in that scene and, thus, Hawke and the Warden are important to the plot of DAIII.
And, as I said, No writer would have an important line like that said and then retract its importance under the idea of 'She was seeing a connection where there was none' or 'it actually was a coincidence'. If it actually WAS Leliana jumping the gun or something of the like, There should have been an appropreate line from Cadandra to suggest such.
At the present time, We have no reason to doubt anything Leliana said in that scene and, thus, Hawke and the Warden are important to the plot of DAIII.
#61
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:01
esper
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LanceSolous13 wrote...
I see no reason for it to not have been in the game.
And, as I said, No writer would have an important line like that said and then retract its importance under the idea of 'She was seeing a connection where there was none' or 'it actually was a coincidence'. If it actually WAS Leliana jumping the gun or something of the like, There should have been an appropreate line from Cadandra to suggest such.
At the present time, We have no reason to doubt anything Leliana said in that scene and, thus, Hawke and the Warden are important to the plot of DAIII.
You see, I think Leliana is slightly offhinged. I never beleived her vision to be anything other than her own wish to do something, and I don't believe her now. It is important that she says it, because it fits with her charather. Cassandra doesn't exactly win any plus from me either, she was the woman who was chasing a legend. For me to see it is simply the chantry being desperate. The warden and Hawke might be importatant to the plot, but their disapperence have nothing to do with each other.
For my Hawke and warden the reason Leliana and Cassandra can't find them it is because they don't want to be found by anyone they think are from the chantry. My Hawke because she is burning pro-mage and anti-chanty, my warden because she is done with politics and just wants to live her own life untill her calling. Other people has other champions and wardens and can come up with their own reasons as to why they can't be found. And since Marric is found now we can thankfully throw the Flemeth kidnaps heros theory out.
#62
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:08
LanceSolous13
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As I'm trying to tell you, No writer would ever have that line of that importance and not follow up on it being important.
About you saying that the Warden is done with politics and ete, I do respect your headcanon as I have many myself, but I believe that the game supercedes that as we don't know WHY they're missing. Hawke is given a vague reason for absense, the Warden either went through the Eluvian with Morrigan, or they found some quest and never returned. On top of that, You're Wardens and Hawkes may be fed up with Thedas' politics and quests, but not everyone elses' is and we shouldn't be shoved into that ideal.
About you saying that the Warden is done with politics and ete, I do respect your headcanon as I have many myself, but I believe that the game supercedes that as we don't know WHY they're missing. Hawke is given a vague reason for absense, the Warden either went through the Eluvian with Morrigan, or they found some quest and never returned. On top of that, You're Wardens and Hawkes may be fed up with Thedas' politics and quests, but not everyone elses' is and we shouldn't be shoved into that ideal.
#63
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:23
esper
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LanceSolous13 wrote...
As I'm trying to tell you, No writer would ever have that line of that importance and not follow up on it being important.
About you saying that the Warden is done with politics and ete, I do respect your headcanon as I have many myself, but I believe that the game supercedes that as we don't know WHY they're missing. Hawke is given a vague reason for absense, the Warden either went through the Eluvian with Morrigan, or they found some quest and never returned. On top of that, You're Wardens and Hawkes may be fed up with Thedas' politics and quests, but not everyone elses' is and we shouldn't be shoved into that ideal.
Sigh, I never said I don't wanted to see the warden and Hawke again. I just said why Leliana couldn't find mine. Besides did you not read my part about my Hawke being pro-mage. She is not finished with Thedas politics, she just have no interest in talking with Leliana or Cassandra.
And I will continue to say that the line have importance, just not the conspiracy importance: It shows the chantry being desperate. They have lost the templars, they have lost the mages, their military are crumbling beneath them, and we now know that Orlais is heading towards civil war as well (Orlais being the chantrys base of power) and the chantry is desperately searching for the heroes of the times to set it right, but the heroes are not there. Leliana being Leliana simply wants to see the pattern and searches for an explanation. It fits her characther thus the line is there. Considering some people warden are dead, it is a desperate move.
#64
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:40
LanceSolous13
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I did read your part about Hawke being pro mage and I never suggested that you didn't want to see them again. And, as I said, the game sort of might say otherwise instead of your Hawke simply not wanting to talk with Casandra or Leliana. It comes down to the fact that the ending of DAII suggests that they are important in the coming battle as Casandra is looking for Hawke SPESIFICALLY because he's the one person who could possible end this war.
I do honestly get what your are trying to say, but it does not fit. If it was Leliana simply being desperate, then the scene should have reflected that fact or it should have been a throw away line, Not the last line of the entire game. You do NOT devote the last scene to something like that. Its called a Cop Out. Its something that writers should avoid like the plague. We already know that the Cantry's search for Hawke is out of desperation from Varric's speeches through out the game. Leliana's scene in the end is to spesifically out line the fact that the Warden and Hawke BOTH play a key role here.
I do honestly get what your are trying to say, but it does not fit. If it was Leliana simply being desperate, then the scene should have reflected that fact or it should have been a throw away line, Not the last line of the entire game. You do NOT devote the last scene to something like that. Its called a Cop Out. Its something that writers should avoid like the plague. We already know that the Cantry's search for Hawke is out of desperation from Varric's speeches through out the game. Leliana's scene in the end is to spesifically out line the fact that the Warden and Hawke BOTH play a key role here.
#65
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:46
marshalleck
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Funny how they were working on an expansion to DA2 which probably would have tied things up, but they cancelled it due to lackluster DLC sales.Yalision wrote...
Well my Warden is long dead by now, and who knows what the hell happened to my Hawke. If I could have killed him heroically too, I would have. Nice to have that sense of closure. Sigh. It was for this reason I never bought any of the DA2 DLC and stuck to my guns about it. Closure or no deal. Guess it was no deal in the end.
#66
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:49
LanceSolous13
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marshalleck wrote...
Funny how they were working on an expansion to DA2 which probably would have tied things up, but they cancelled it due to lackluster DLC sales.Yalision wrote...
Well my Warden is long dead by now, and who knows what the hell happened to my Hawke. If I could have killed him heroically too, I would have. Nice to have that sense of closure. Sigh. It was for this reason I never bought any of the DA2 DLC and stuck to my guns about it. Closure or no deal. Guess it was no deal in the end.
One of the reasons I wish they HAD done that expansion is the fact that the plot might have actually gone somewhere then.
I do wonder if Inquesition is actually Exalted March but in Full-Game Status.
#67
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:51
marshalleck
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I'd bet it is, I can't imagine they'd throw away all that work when they could just rearrange it a bit and add some more to make a full length game--that seems the smart economical decision.
#68
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 10:00
LanceSolous13
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That and, it was already foreshadowed that an Exalted March on Kirkwall was being considered. Something big like that which is also a logically result of all that has happened isn't easilly eraced.
Additionally, Inquesition sounds close enough in theme to what an Exlated March sounds like.
Additionally, Inquesition sounds close enough in theme to what an Exlated March sounds like.
#69
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 11:55
Yuqi
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marshalleck wrote...
Funny how they were working on an expansion to DA2 which probably would have tied things up, but they cancelled it due to lackluster DLC sales.Yalision wrote...
Well my Warden is long dead by now, and who knows what the hell happened to my Hawke. If I could have killed him heroically too, I would have. Nice to have that sense of closure. Sigh. It was for this reason I never bought any of the DA2 DLC and stuck to my guns about it. Closure or no deal. Guess it was no deal in the end.
And the ME3 extended cut..
#70
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 01:03
RedWulfi
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I dont care about my hawke.
But id like a side quest where my PC gets to meet my Warden and help her investigate something
It would be very interesting if I had Cullen in the party with me too since my warden is an elven mage ooh so exciting ~
But id like a side quest where my PC gets to meet my Warden and help her investigate something
It would be very interesting if I had Cullen in the party with me too since my warden is an elven mage ooh so exciting ~
#71
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 01:41
Pauravi
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LOL. I don't think you're being too cynical, I'm sure that's exactly what would happen.silentspec111 wrote...
Personally I would love to see them or hear about them in DA3 but they are such a sensitive and touchy issue to most people out here.
I think bioware would be wise to not have them in their game at all.Maybe a Codex entry to what happened to them. Atleast it will save BSN from 100's of threads like
"Bioware that dosent sound like my warden"
"Bioware what did you do to my warden's face you ruined the DA series for me. The whole game is broken to me now"
"Bioware you did not highlight the fact warden/hawke did this or that side quest and you ruined immersion"(no matter how insignificant that side mission was)
"Bioware my warden is too nice/sarcastic/aggresive.....you ruined them for me...you ruined the game...ruined the DA universe...you betrayed us..you lied to us"
Tbh maybe I am being a bit too cynical about this or maybe lack of any info about DA3 is making me all cranky and grumpy. But i rather Bioware stay away from it that this whole issue derailing the game and every topic at BSN
I'd still like to see it, but I'm not hopeful. If they could find a way to import the face even halfway decently (like they did with ME, although they were all UT3 games..) that'd be all I would ever want. Oh and the major storyline bits obviously.
I'm not dead set on Hawke having a major part in the next game, although I have to say... I'm curious how things worked out for me and sweet little Merrill
#72
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 02:20
siefier25
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First of all, you have to take a look at why the first game was called "Origins".
So look at it this way...its like a prequel to Hawke's story, or the story that they want to tell. Its the setup for something that is going to be much bigger than the warden, and it will include Hawke, as he is the first Entry to the main story arch..does that make sense?
So that being said Hawke will either be in the next game, or be mentioned. One or the other, sometime down the road Hawke will be a character whether hes in the background or the main protag's companion.
I think the real focus will come down on The Warden and Morrigan's child. Morrigan and The Warden, I believe, are gone for good. They are not with the child. If you paid close attention to the Epilogue of Origins, and what Morrigan told the Warden in Witch Hunt, you should get a hint at what is to come.
Morrigan was seen travelling to Orlais, pregnant. In Witch Hunt, you don't see her with the child, and she tells the Warden that he is out of reach. She also says something to the effect of the child being brought up right, or be good or something along those lines. I feel that the child is with a family in Orlais. That she gave him up to be raised in this world to prepare for whats to come. I also think Morrigan went into the mirror to finally get away from Flemeth. I think the Mirror is a Point of No Return for her, and the Warden(assuming your Warden went in). She said the Mirror is beyond the fade. So its the afterlife then? The fade is like a purgatory, or at least thats how I interpreted it, and beyond that would possibly be true death....anyways, this is why I believe DA3 will not have the Warden at all. It will be their child instead. He'll probably be a teen or young adult at this point, so it would be perfect.
So look at it this way...its like a prequel to Hawke's story, or the story that they want to tell. Its the setup for something that is going to be much bigger than the warden, and it will include Hawke, as he is the first Entry to the main story arch..does that make sense?
So that being said Hawke will either be in the next game, or be mentioned. One or the other, sometime down the road Hawke will be a character whether hes in the background or the main protag's companion.
I think the real focus will come down on The Warden and Morrigan's child. Morrigan and The Warden, I believe, are gone for good. They are not with the child. If you paid close attention to the Epilogue of Origins, and what Morrigan told the Warden in Witch Hunt, you should get a hint at what is to come.
Morrigan was seen travelling to Orlais, pregnant. In Witch Hunt, you don't see her with the child, and she tells the Warden that he is out of reach. She also says something to the effect of the child being brought up right, or be good or something along those lines. I feel that the child is with a family in Orlais. That she gave him up to be raised in this world to prepare for whats to come. I also think Morrigan went into the mirror to finally get away from Flemeth. I think the Mirror is a Point of No Return for her, and the Warden(assuming your Warden went in). She said the Mirror is beyond the fade. So its the afterlife then? The fade is like a purgatory, or at least thats how I interpreted it, and beyond that would possibly be true death....anyways, this is why I believe DA3 will not have the Warden at all. It will be their child instead. He'll probably be a teen or young adult at this point, so it would be perfect.
#73
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 02:26
siefier25
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marshalleck wrote...
I'd bet it is, I can't imagine they'd throw away all that work when they could just rearrange it a bit and add some more to make a full length game--that seems the smart economical decision.
They wouldn't be the first company to do that.
Volition did this with Saints Row: The Third.
They decided to go with the expansions plans and make it into a full blown game, incorporating a full story with added elements, rather than releasing it as DLC for SR3.
So, this very well could be The Exalted March, but expanded upon for depth.
#74
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 02:29
Mello
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I don't care about any of them.
My Warden is living with Alistair in a big fancy castle eating cheese.
And Hawke.... I just don't give a damn about.
It would be nice to see my Warden or hear her name get mentioned but we can't keep on dragging them along every DragonAge game we need to move on.
My Warden is living with Alistair in a big fancy castle eating cheese.
And Hawke.... I just don't give a damn about.
It would be nice to see my Warden or hear her name get mentioned but we can't keep on dragging them along every DragonAge game we need to move on.
#75
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 02:44
cindercatz
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The Eluvians lead straight to Arlathan. Arlathan was the Golden City, 'bout as certain about that as I can be, which means it's in the Fade. The Golden City is the Black City now, also in the Fade, so "beyond the Fade". So Morrigan and potentially the Warden and the OGB are not done by a long shot. They're right in the center of the storm. Morrigan is for sure. Depending on your choices, your Warden and the OGB could be right there with her.
*For all those saying "kill the Warden off-screen", you guys realize that makes zero narrative sense, right? It won't be those of us asking to see the Warden back that ever complain about him/her not being just absolutely perfect. If anybody, it'll be the people that just don't want to see him/her, period. Why would we complain? We'd be getting exactly what we asked for.
I could care less if you complain all over the board if they do bring the Warden back into the story. It's too cool an oppurtunity to pass up, getting to really see characters you helped mold from multiple games continuing to play off each other in the world you also helped define the details of.
If they do kill off the Warden and Hawke, they still need to do it on camera as part of the major story, which means they still need to be brought into the game anyway. Anything less is an unnecessary cop out. You don't kill major characters off camera, period. And leaving them in purgatory for head canon's sake is just a waste.
edit:
I think the Exalted March is just getting folded into DA3. Inquisition is just a larger story, and it makes sense that a crusade would fit right into it.
Assassin's Creed is another franchise that expanded a dlc out to full game status. I can't remember if it was Brotherhood or Revelations, think Brotherhood, since it's set in Rome.
*For all those saying "kill the Warden off-screen", you guys realize that makes zero narrative sense, right? It won't be those of us asking to see the Warden back that ever complain about him/her not being just absolutely perfect. If anybody, it'll be the people that just don't want to see him/her, period. Why would we complain? We'd be getting exactly what we asked for.
I could care less if you complain all over the board if they do bring the Warden back into the story. It's too cool an oppurtunity to pass up, getting to really see characters you helped mold from multiple games continuing to play off each other in the world you also helped define the details of.
If they do kill off the Warden and Hawke, they still need to do it on camera as part of the major story, which means they still need to be brought into the game anyway. Anything less is an unnecessary cop out. You don't kill major characters off camera, period. And leaving them in purgatory for head canon's sake is just a waste.
edit:
I think the Exalted March is just getting folded into DA3. Inquisition is just a larger story, and it makes sense that a crusade would fit right into it.
Assassin's Creed is another franchise that expanded a dlc out to full game status. I can't remember if it was Brotherhood or Revelations, think Brotherhood, since it's set in Rome.
Modifié par cindercatz, 13 octobre 2012 - 02:55 .
