119 réponses à ce sujet

[Androme]

cindercatz wrote...

The Eluvians lead straight to Arlathan. Arlathan was the Golden City, 'bout as certain about that as I can be, which means it's in the Fade. The Golden City is the Black City now, also in the Fade, so "beyond the Fade". So Morrigan and potentially the Warden and the OGB are not done by a long shot. They're right in the center of the storm. Morrigan is for sure. Depending on your choices, your Warden and the OGB could be right there with her.

*For all those saying "kill the Warden off-screen", you guys realize that makes zero narrative sense, right? It won't be those of us asking to see the Warden back that ever complain about him/her not being just absolutely perfect. If anybody, it'll be the people that just don't want to see him/her, period. Why would we complain? We'd be getting exactly what we asked for.

I could care less if you complain all over the board if they do bring the Warden back into the story. It's too cool an oppurtunity to pass up, getting to really see characters you helped mold from multiple games continuing to play off each other in the world you also helped define the details of.

If they do kill off the Warden and Hawke, they still need to do it on camera as part of the major story, which means they still need to be brought into the game anyway. Anything less is an unnecessary cop out. You don't kill major characters off camera, period. And leaving them in purgatory for head canon's sake is just a waste.

edit:
I think the Exalted March is just getting folded into DA3. Inquisition is just a larger story, and it makes sense that a crusade would fit right into it.

Assassin's Creed is another franchise that expanded a dlc out to full game status. I can't remember if it was Brotherhood or Revelations, think Brotherhood, since it's set in Rome.

this

[SpEcIaLRyAn]

Have them walk right by and only we know who it is. Simple as that. For Hawke they could make him say something based on our personality choice for him in DA2. For Warden just simply keep him silent.

[LanceSolous13]

Where was it ever stated that the Eluvians lead to the Black City in the Fade? As far as I remember, I don't recall it ever saying where they went besides "Beyond the Fade". Slightly why I wanted Merril to finish her Eluvian, Wanted to know what it was exactly. However, after the Keeper's Death, I didn't get any quest to finish the plot line up. : / Felt like a huge cop out.

[Mr_Steph]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Mr_Steph wrote...

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Except, You know, Leliana makes a clear point in the last min of the game to state that Hawke and the Warden's dissapearence are no accident making it an important plot point.

Except Leliana doesn't know. It could very well be an coincedence.

Erm... When an author chooses to end something on a cliffhanger and a key line of dialogue is 'This is no accident', That's usually a set in stone statement to not only the characters in a scene but also to the players/readers/audience of what to expect in the future.

They wouldn't have this intriguing set up and then say 'lol nah, it was just a coincedence'. In writing, or at least well written stories, NOTHING is a coincedence.

LoL you are acting as if storywritters never leave themselves an opportunity to leave things out such as this if they can't figure out a way to do it properly. Nothing is ever set in stone.

[cindercatz]

LanceSolous13 wrote...

Where was it ever stated that the Eluvians lead to the Black City in the Fade? As far as I remember, I don't recall it ever saying where they went besides "Beyond the Fade". Slightly why I wanted Merril to finish her Eluvian, Wanted to know what it was exactly. However, after the Keeper's Death, I didn't get any quest to finish the plot line up. : / Felt like a huge cop out.

I'm hoping Merrill's plot will tie to Morrigan's if she completed her eluvian. Only makes sense, but we'll see.

I believe it's stated in one of the elf history books about Eluvians (codex entry, seems like from the Circle Tower in DA:O, maybe Witchhunt, don't remember exactly) that they lead back to Arlathan. Connecting the dots of the Tevinter conquest of the elves and their account of the blood magic ritual at the end of their conquest (or the invasion of the Golden City by Chantry teaching, DA:O) using the Eluvians (with the elves attempting to cut off access to Arlathan) leads me to believe that Arlathan and the Golden City (aka: Black City) are the same place, and the timeline lines up so far, at the end of Tevinter's expansion, before the first Blight which is before Andraste, her rebellion during a great drought, and the imperial recession. Morrigan's line about "beyond the fade" as she enters the eluvian just strengthens the connection. The only place we know of so far "beyond the fade" is the Black City.

Modifié par cindercatz, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:13 .

[AppealToReason]

cindercatz wrote...
I think the Exalted March is just getting folded into DA3. Inquisition is just a larger story, and it makes sense that a crusade would fit right into it.

Assassin's Creed is another franchise that expanded a dlc out to full game status. I can't remember if it was Brotherhood or Revelations, think Brotherhood, since it's set in Rome.

Everything between AC2 and AC3 was supposed to be just a meaty DLC but they fleshed them into full games because of the games popularity.

[cindercatz]

AppealToReason wrote...

cindercatz wrote...
I think the Exalted March is just getting folded into DA3. Inquisition is just a larger story, and it makes sense that a crusade would fit right into it.

Assassin's Creed is another franchise that expanded a dlc out to full game status. I can't remember if it was Brotherhood or Revelations, think Brotherhood, since it's set in Rome.

Everything between AC2 and AC3 was supposed to be just a meaty DLC but they fleshed them into full games because of the games popularity.

Ah. Good decision on their part. I don't love them as much as AC2, but they're both still very good games, and Brotherhood introduced a great game mechanic or three.

[JamesStark]

 Well I can see Hawke either on the run, though why s/he would be in Orlais for that purpose is beyond me. So perhaps s/he's joining the fight for whatever side you chose at the end of DA2. So depending on what kind of quests you choose, you could end up aiding each other or you'll have to kill him/her.

The Warden is a different matter though. I feel he should be left alone until a more Warden centric game pops up. Perhaps he can be the mentor of the player character of that game. That's a big enough role to justify letting us recreate him with the new art style so he doesn't look derpy. It's a role that can be important without needing to much dialogue for all 6 voice actors (8 if they want to seperate Dalish Wardens and City Elf Wardens but that's unlikely)

[siefier25]

siefier25 wrote...

First of all, you have to take a look at why the first game was called "Origins".

So look at it this way...its like a prequel to Hawke's story, or the story that they want to tell. Its the setup for something that is going to be much bigger than the warden, and it will include Hawke, as he is the first Entry to the main story arch..does that make sense?

So that being said Hawke will either be in the next game, or be mentioned. One or the other, sometime down the road Hawke will be a character whether hes in the background or the main protag's companion.

I think the real focus will come down on The Warden and Morrigan's child. Morrigan and The Warden, I believe, are gone for good. They are not with the child. If you paid close attention to the Epilogue of Origins, and what Morrigan told the Warden in Witch Hunt, you should get a hint at what is to come.

Morrigan was seen travelling to Orlais, pregnant. In Witch Hunt, you don't see her with the child, and she tells the Warden that he is out of reach. She also says something to the effect of the child being brought up right, or be good or something along those lines. I feel that the child is with a family in Orlais. That she gave him up to be raised in this world to prepare for whats to come. I also think Morrigan went into the mirror to finally get away from Flemeth. I think the Mirror is a Point of No Return for her, and the Warden(assuming your Warden went in). She said the Mirror is beyond the fade. So its the afterlife then? The fade is like a purgatory, or at least thats how I interpreted it, and beyond that would possibly be true death....anyways, this is why I believe DA3 will not have the Warden at all. It will be their child instead. He'll probably be a teen or young adult at this point, so it would be perfect.

It was created by them, that doesn't mean it leads them to the golden city. I don't remember the DLC ever stating that. Plus, it defeats the purpose of Morrigan stating its beyond the fade. If what you say is true, then we have a huge contradiction in the story line.

[dsl08002]

allow us to choose who to play as either, warden, hawke or new character.

best compromise and everyone is happy

[marshalleck]

dsl08002 wrote...

allow us to choose who to play as either, warden, hawke or new character.

best compromise and everyone is happy

now that is some spectacular wishful thinking

[cindercatz]

siefier25 wrote...

It was created by them, that doesn't mean it leads them to the golden city. I don't remember the DLC ever stating that. Plus, it defeats the purpose of Morrigan stating its beyond the fade. If what you say is true, then we have a huge contradiction in the story line.

It's stated that they lead to Arlathan. I believe, because of a preponderance of repetitive story elements, the relative timeline, and the fact that one story is elven, the other Chantry (meaning that the Elven one predates the Chantry's later version, and that they are two cultures, hence different names and interpretations of the same history, one from before the first Blight, the other after the fact), that Arlathan is the Golden City. Morrigan sought out and crossed through an eluvian. Why? Not to run from Flemeth. That doesn't begin to answer why she does everything she does. She needed to get to Arlathan. What makes Arlathan so central to her? Well, if it's the Golden City, that's obvious. It's the center of the whole story.

Morrigan doesn't bring the baby back outside the city in order to protect the baby. Remember you have the option to distrust her and even attack her. Depending on the way you play, it could be that or it could be her protecting it against it's likely Old God abomination cousin Flemeth (at least that). She doesn't tell you much because she doesn't actually intend for you to leave with her. She intends to leave the Warden with something important, some information and something more, to help him/her prepare for coming strife (which we also never see). Morrigan is careful. If you've been true to her and she loves you, then you get to go with her and learn what she knows. Not before. But we players just have to wait either way.

There is no contradiction.

And on your first post point, DA:O was never meant to set up Hawke. I don't see how anybody can look at DA2 and not see them trying to broaden the market to ME2's audience, as much as possible. They made a lot of bad decisions, they're very different properties, but that's all it was. It was intended for there to be more protagonists if there were sequels, I think. Otherwise why allow your Warden to die? But that doesn't mean it was originally intended to funnel into the surface story that it did. It was supposed to set up the world state and start a number of sub-plots that would potentially factor in later, and that's what it still does. DA2 took advantage of some of that, but not much. If they stick with the script of the underlying threads so far, it's gonna be fun to watch them play out over time. Morrigan's got a big part to play, at the least.

[unbentbuzzkill]

why not just play as all of them isn't that bad of an idea actually. but i doubt that will ever happen.

[cindercatz]

I think it's a great idea, actually. But if not, I'm more than fine with them having some major npc roles here and there where they should.

(as in, play them all, not choose one or the other. That'd just leave two of them out.)

Modifié par cindercatz, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:40 .

[Vicious]

I don't see how anybody can look at DA2 and not see them trying to broaden the market to ME2's audience, as much as possible.

Pretty much. Of course that's no excuse, ME2 was actually a good game and satisfying to play, with stellar DLC. DA2 was an average to sub-average RPG filled with ridiculous mechanics and a completely unsatisfying story that they couldn't even bother to finish. [Its story DLC was better than most of the game, certainly Act 3]

Modifié par Vicious, 14 octobre 2012 - 12:33 .

[cindercatz]

Agreed on the bad mechanics and terrible 3rd act, for sure. And yes, the dlcs were definitely improvements, though I still expect a lot more out of DA3.

[AppealToReason]

So I'm working on my perfect playthrough of DA2 now and I remembered Hawke has that cousin of his Charade. I think that might make a good companion and it can tie Hawke into the game.

[jackofalltrades456]

I believe epilogues slides would be the best way of clearing up any unanswered questions with the Warden and Hawke.

[cindercatz]

AppealToReason wrote...

So I'm working on my perfect playthrough of DA2 now and I remembered Hawke has that cousin of his Charade. I think that might make a good companion and it can tie Hawke into the game.

Definitely.
I loved her in DA2, one of the highlights. I'd like to see her again, for sure. Companion? Very cool.

[AppealToReason]

cindercatz wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

So I'm working on my perfect playthrough of DA2 now and I remembered Hawke has that cousin of his Charade. I think that might make a good companion and it can tie Hawke into the game.

Definitely.
I loved her in DA2, one of the highlights. I'd like to see her again, for sure. Companion? Very cool.

It would be a really easy convenient way to do it. For some reason she set off trying to track him down as he's the only family she has left after Gamlen succumbed to old age and STD's. She overhears some conversation you're having and BOOM new companion.

Depending on which Warden you chose there could even be a thing like that for him too. Or just use Oghren because regardless of if the Hero warden died, the Amaranthine one is alive by all counts and makes it super easy to assume that is the Warden they're talking about now.

[cindercatz]

AppealToReason wrote...

cindercatz wrote...

AppealToReason wrote...

So I'm working on my perfect playthrough of DA2 now and I remembered Hawke has that cousin of his Charade. I think that might make a good companion and it can tie Hawke into the game.

Definitely.
I loved her in DA2, one of the highlights. I'd like to see her again, for sure. Companion? Very cool.

It would be a really easy convenient way to do it. For some reason she set off trying to track him down as he's the only family she has left after Gamlen succumbed to old age and STD's. She overhears some conversation you're having and BOOM new companion.

Depending on which Warden you chose there could even be a thing like that for him too. Or just use Oghren because regardless of if the Hero warden died, the Amaranthine one is alive by all counts and makes it super easy to assume that is the Warden they're talking about now.

I wouldn't mind seeing any of the old companions again, but I haven't pictured Oghren following an Inquisitor around. I definitely want to see the Warden regardless, and Hawke too. Charade (or whatever her name was, liked her though) just wets my lips as a new companion, is all.

I imagine if she joined up and you found Hawke, depending on which side your Inquisitor takes vs. which side your Hawke took, she might even jump ship and undermine you (though not die in that kind of situation, overdone and shuts too many doors). That kind of thing is highly interesting. ;-) Maybe it effects your ability to negotiate in certain situations, increases troops you meet in certain battles, things like that. Maybe she costs you another ally if you lose her, but she recruits Hawke and his/her allies to your side if she supports you. It'd give you a tangible consequence to a decision you made in a previous game, as well as a cool new companion who's already connected to other characters.

As for the Warden, it'd be cool if you could bump into Shianni in Denerim or the dwarven warden's son/nephew in Orzammar, things like that, along with the Warden if they were in the same place or in other scenes if not.

Modifié par cindercatz, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:11 .

[siefier25]

cindercatz wrote...

siefier25 wrote...

It was created by them, that doesn't mean it leads them to the golden city. I don't remember the DLC ever stating that. Plus, it defeats the purpose of Morrigan stating its beyond the fade. If what you say is true, then we have a huge contradiction in the story line.

It's stated that they lead to Arlathan. I believe, because of a preponderance of repetitive story elements, the relative timeline, and the fact that one story is elven, the other Chantry (meaning that the Elven one predates the Chantry's later version, and that they are two cultures, hence different names and interpretations of the same history, one from before the first Blight, the other after the fact), that Arlathan is the Golden City. Morrigan sought out and crossed through an eluvian. Why? Not to run from Flemeth. That doesn't begin to answer why she does everything she does. She needed to get to Arlathan. What makes Arlathan so central to her? Well, if it's the Golden City, that's obvious. It's the center of the whole story.

Morrigan doesn't bring the baby back outside the city in order to protect the baby. Remember you have the option to distrust her and even attack her. Depending on the way you play, it could be that or it could be her protecting it against it's likely Old God abomination cousin Flemeth (at least that). She doesn't tell you much because she doesn't actually intend for you to leave with her. She intends to leave the Warden with something important, some information and something more, to help him/her prepare for coming strife (which we also never see). Morrigan is careful. If you've been true to her and she loves you, then you get to go with her and learn what she knows. Not before. But we players just have to wait either way.

There is no contradiction.

And on your first post point, DA:O was never meant to set up Hawke. I don't see how anybody can look at DA2 and not see them trying to broaden the market to ME2's audience, as much as possible. They made a lot of bad decisions, they're very different properties, but that's all it was. It was intended for there to be more protagonists if there were sequels, I think. Otherwise why allow your Warden to die? But that doesn't mean it was originally intended to funnel into the surface story that it did. It was supposed to set up the world state and start a number of sub-plots that would potentially factor in later, and that's what it still does. DA2 took advantage of some of that, but not much. If they stick with the script of the underlying threads so far, it's gonna be fun to watch them play out over time. Morrigan's got a big part to play, at the least.

Its never stated as fact that its the Golden city. Its speculated that it is yes, but not stated. Many speculate as you do, and others think it leads to another realm, time, and some think its just a quick way to get around Thedas. Some even believe it leads to the Maker, which I think is a bit far fetched.

Also, I didn't say that DAO it just pertains to DA2. I mean't that it is the set up for the entire DA world from here on out. Its the foundation of the events that did, will, transpire. Sure yes, I agree it was mean't to spawn multiple protagonists. I don't recall saying it was just for Hawke. I don't even think Hawke will be a main character. I think he could be a companion or much like the Warden, be referenced. 

[LanceSolous13]

cindercatz wrote...

Agreed on the bad mechanics and terrible 3rd act, for sure. And yes, the dlcs were definitely improvements, though I still expect a lot more out of DA3.

Yet another reason I was dissapointed that Exalted March wasn't made. The DLC was certainly an improvement and fixed a lot of DAII's mistakes (Much more character involvement, Humor was great but not distracting, good bosses, ete). I'm sure that Exlated March could have been as great as DAII was supposed to be.

I would also like to point out that, from what we know, DAIII won't JUST be in Orlais, but Fereldan, Kurkwall/Free Marches, and the tip of the Tiventer Imperium. Based off the map they showed at a convention, that is...

[LanceSolous13]

siefier25 wrote...

Its never stated as fact that its the Golden city. Its speculated that it is yes, but not stated. Many speculate as you do, and others think it leads to another realm, time, and some think its just a quick way to get around Thedas. Some even believe it leads to the Maker, which I think is a bit far fetched.

Also, I didn't say that DAO it just pertains to DA2. I mean't that it is the set up for the entire DA world from here on out. Its the foundation of the events that did, will, transpire. Sure yes, I agree it was mean't to spawn multiple protagonists. I don't recall saying it was just for Hawke. I don't even think Hawke will be a main character. I think he could be a companion or much like the Warden, be referenced. 

Well, on the posibility of it being the Golden City, They could certainly hit two birds with one stone there. We finally uncover the mysteries of the Black City AND continue the Morrigan/Old God Plotline.

I sort of like the idea of my Warden and Morrigan raising a child in a giant golden city. Wonder if there will be Spirits everywhere or if they're contsantly fighting deamons. And, considering the Fade does contain the dead, They could include a breif cameo of Wynne with the Warden. I sort of want to see how he takes her death considering she was the closest he had to a mother during the first game. Also, she was one of my favorite companions (Might have had something to do with her 'Team Healer' Capabilities).

[xsamplexample]

They will probably just keep making references to the Warden-Commander and Hawke. Maybe Hawke will become a possible party member, fully voiced, and be based off your imported Hawke's personality.

The warden-commander is probably experiencing the darkspawn taint by now.... its been over a decade since he first drank... does anybody know how long the warden's lifespan lasts?