152 réponses à ce sujet

[Ferelden Templar]

dkjestrup wrote...

Also, for Spirit Healers, Cleansing Aura is crap, so you won't have any sustainables running that you wouldn't normally. For Arcane warriors I realize this isn't the case; Combat Magic, Shimmering Shield, Arcane Shield, Miasma, Rock Armor and probably a weapon buff, maybe even something from the haste line. Which is why I recommend going Blood Mage for the second spec, so you can use your health to cast from.

I agree with you on Cleansing Aura. It requires some micromanagement. I ran Wynne and Morri with 2 Cleansing Auras on the Xbox. Not as good as I'd hoped. Did more revivals in that game than any other. Other offensive boosts are better. I just like the Spirit Healing Tree when it gets to Lifeward.

Better include a link to Arcane Warrior skills that uses Unsheathed Weapons.

[dkjestrup]

Ahhh... That I will. I generally don't cast spells while in "melee" mode, though. I usually start with a staff, use my c/c spells. Then I switch to my melee weapon/s and activate my sustains.

[RangerSG]

I disagree on the hate for Cleansing Aura. You don't 'need' to leave it on, first of all. Second, it saves on injury kits, which lets you pour more of your resources into poultices so you can keep your characters upright more often.



The money/resources you save on injury kits pays for the spell right there. Especially if you've already taken the rest of the Spirit Healer line.

[dkjestrup]

Yes, the fact that you save on an item that you might use once every 3-4 battles that's very cheap to get, can be made very easily, while there are tons of other brilliant spells that you can spend your points on definitely makes it worth it.



Come on! The only ingredient you need to buy is the distillation agents, you can get the mushrooms and elfroots as loot. You get the recipe for free from Bella in Redcliffe.



Unless you're so bad that you need to rely on potion spamming to the point where you rarely have any on you, no, it's not worth it. On my latest Nightmare playthrough, I haven't made or brought a single injury kit, and have something like 17 lesser and 6 normal injury kits, and I'm not halfway through the game (defense of Redcliffe + Mage tower).



That's hardly a redeeming feature of the spell.

[Ferelden Templar]

RangerSG wrote...

I disagree on the hate for Cleansing Aura. You don't 'need' to leave it on, first of all. Second, it saves on injury kits, which lets you pour more of your resources into poultices so you can keep your characters upright more often.

The money/resources you save on injury kits pays for the spell right there. Especially if you've already taken the rest of the Spirit Healer line.

It looked good at the start to be honest. Once you realize the limitations however, it isn't as good as you thought it once was. 

I don't hate it, I just feel it isn't as great or as important as CC spells. I'd turn it off for a well timed CC.

In confined spaces like dungeons I agree. It loses steam in open fights where your team scatter in different directions. I play on the xbox so your have to rely on party AI more. I definitely don't have Tactics auto-activate unless the situation makes it vital.

Also, I haven't experienced DA on nightmare level either. So I can't comment on Cleansing Aura and the effects on that end of the game. On normal, I've ran Morrigan on a single heal with about as many injuries as I would get if I had Wynne on a one-mage party. She was a pure crowd control mage paired with a DW Warrior. The significant difference is that I do better in Mage fights with the CC arsenal.

[RangerSG]

dkjestrup wrote...

Yes, the fact that you save on an item that you might use once every 3-4 battles that's very cheap to get, can be made very easily, while there are tons of other brilliant spells that you can spend your points on definitely makes it worth it.

Come on! The only ingredient you need to buy is the distillation agents, you can get the mushrooms and elfroots as loot. You get the recipe for free from Bella in Redcliffe.

Unless you're so bad that you need to rely on potion spamming to the point where you rarely have any on you, no, it's not worth it. On my latest Nightmare playthrough, I haven't made or brought a single injury kit, and have something like 17 lesser and 6 normal injury kits, and I'm not halfway through the game (defense of Redcliffe + Mage tower).

That's hardly a redeeming feature of the spell.

Halfway through the game you wouldn't have CA either, and I rarely need kits then. It's once you start prowling the Deep Roads they become useful.

And since that's a long dungeon-crawl in a confined space, the Aura is actually useful there too.

I'm not saying it's a must-have spell. But it's hardly the worst Tier 4 spell I could name (*cough* Chain Lightning *cough*). And if you've already gone 3 spots down the Spirit healing line (and with Wynne you almost certainly will have when you get her), the fourth spot is hardly a loser, since she's miles away from any other serious CC spell other than earthquake (which she probably already will have) anyway.

If I'm making a PC healer, would I take it? Probably not, unless I'm tome-stacking. But given that Wynne is already specced 3/4s of the way there and would have to line up a host of spells you'll never use to get to another useful CC? *shrugs* There's no reason it's not a good pick-up for her.

[dkjestrup]

Not really... you can exit to your camp after each segment in the Deep Roads. And by that point, assuming you're doing it late in the game, chances are you've done the Brecilian Forest, meaning you have an unlimited supply of Elfroot and Deep Mushrooms, plus Distillation Agents from Bodhan Feddic, and you should've got the injury kit recipe for free at Redcliffe. You can easily make a good 20 lesser injury kits, and if you go through all of them in that one questline, which would mean you're not playing that well, you can simply go to camp, and make more if need be.



The injury part of the spell is useless, and the healing part is pretty pathetic. Finally, there are plenty of tier 1 spells you can pick up, such as mind blast, vulnerability hex, spell shield and walking bomb that are much better alternatives.

[Mikkahl]

I can't make base willpower work for a Sword and Shield tank, namely Alistair. He's at 11 Willpower, so his Stamina is 150/150. If he turns on Threaten, Shield Wall, and Precise Striking his Stamina now shows 20/20 (130 Reserved), and he hasn't got anything left to power Taunt or any other ability (they all say "Insufficient stamina"). A Wynne tactic like: "Ally: Mana or Stamina < 50% -> Rejuvenate" doesn't trigger because apparently at 20/20 he is 100% charged! And direct Rejunavate doesn't help either, because he's already "fully charged"!

What the heck is this "Reserved" concept anyway? I would think a Sustained mode would deplete the full 150 stamina at a fixed rate over time, and that then a Rejuvenate spell could charge him back up to 150 periodically.

Taunt needs 57 stamina, so I need an additional 37 stamina, it appears. So that means I need to add 8 points of Willpower, at least! And then I will deplete my stamina (and need a Rejuvenate) for each ability I try to use.

Or only have 2 Sustained abilities up at once, of course!

[dkjestrup]

Threaten and Precise striking are unneeded. Precise striking, on a dex tank, lowers your DPS. You attack 10% slower, and get 10 points in attack, which is less than 10%. Considering your attack is fine with high dex, no need to worry. Threaten is alright in a boss fight, but otherwise, it doubles the aggro you gain from attacking an enemy, for that particular enemy. So in a room of 10 guys, it only effects one of them. You're much better not using it.



Also, run Shield Defense (except against Ogres etc that knockdown), as it is better than Wall on a dex tank and also is cheaper.



Finally, these aren't be-all and end-all builds. If you need more stamina, by all means invest in stamina, or get +stamina gear like Eamon's Shield, or +stamina regen, like Evon the Great's Mail.

[soteria]

You'll find a s&s tank is a lot more fun with decent stamina regen, be it from items or from Wynne giving you rejuvenation. It's just not much fun always being out of stamina. But yeah, turn off threaten and precise striking.

[shree420]

Great guide, it's nice to have everything in one place.



Can you please add a Shale section, just as you have a Dog one? I ask because Shale doesn't fall into any of the warrior/rogue/mage categories, just like Dog.

[dkjestrup]

^ I'm thinking about that. Here's the deal.



I'm currently playing through as a PC Mage. My Party is me, Morrigan, Leliana or Zevran and Shale or Alistar. This is the first time I've really used Shale much, and have come to appreciate her a lot.



On my next playthrough, I will be doing a no mages/potions runthrough, with a Pc Dual Wielder, Shale, Dog and Lel/Zev.



After my PC Mage playthrough, I'm going to finish the mage section. Then after my next playthrough, I'm going to make a Shale section.



Also, just fyi, school has started again, so I won't be playing very much at all (doing my IGCSEs this year). I'll play as much as I can, but don't hold your breath.

[PhoenixAdamu]

While there's an GameFAQ on how to properly build Arcane Warriors (and possibly differing builds on the same subject), I think I'm gonna apply my two-cents here for the mage side of things, and the Arcane Warrior is, by far, the most OP mage spec, especially when coupled with Blood Mage. On that, here we go!

Stats
As mentioned in the starting post, Magic is THE MOST CRUCIAL stat for a mage, as it determines the spellpower of your mage (Spellpower = Magic - 10). As an Arcane Warrior, more magic is even better, as it slightly improves your attack rating (seems like it's every 5 Magic = 1 attack as an Arcane Warrior), determines your melee damage rather than Strength while Combat Magic is active, and allows you to wear medium, heavy, and massive armor sets. However, you don't want to just dump every point into Magic; a little bit of Willpower can go a long way, as well (larger manapool and higher mental resistance FTW), and once you hit about level 10 or so, you can start pumping your Constitution so you can use your health more effectively in Blood Magic mode. Other than that, if you plan on going dual-wield with a MH weapon (such as Spellweaver or the Veshialle) and a dagger in the off-hand (and this is completely viable if you're playing full-party), you might want to hit up some Dexterity to be able to equip higher-tier daggers; other than that, and some Cunning for Coercion and other skills, everything else can be left alone.

Strength - base
Dexterity - base (+some if you want really good daggers as an Arcane Warrior, depending on what equipment you wear)
Willpower - 1 point every level until about 10, then only more from equips (as Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage); otherwise, 1 point every level period
Magic - MAX
Cunning - 16 to get Master Coercion, then up to perhaps 20 for dialogue
Constitution - 2 points every level after 10 until your naked Constitution = naked Willpower, then 1 point every level after (Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage); otherwise, base level

Specializations
Mages can play many different roles throughout the entire game. I feel that the Shapeshifter spec could've been a LOT more powerful, but from what I heard, there was a glitch where the mage's Magic score didn't translate into each shape's Strength score, so boo on that. If you're looking to be a utility character, you will definitely want the Arcane Warrior specialization; this puppy can allow you to do many things, from tanking to being a healer that never dies, to being a CC/DPS powerhouse in both melee and magical combat. To be more of a tank or a healer/support character as an Arcane Warrior, it's usually recognized that you can indeed take Spirit Healer as your second specialization. On the other hand, for soloing purposes and just outright PWNing everything in sight, it's usually recognized to take an Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage build. The thing about the Arcane Warrior is that it often builds to be nearly indestructible in combat, but once the sustained spells you take are active, your mana pool will be more of a mana puddle; Blood Mages compromise this by allowing them to cast from their health, along with access to Blood Wound and even Blood Control, if you feel evil. All in all, a very powerful all-around build.

On the other hand, you can also be a caster of sorts and spec Spirit Healer/Blood Mage. The Spirit Healer tree is great for getting off heals when you need it, and you can still supply some very potent attacks, if you wish. And, of course, when you run out of mana, switch on Blood Magic and keep going at it. The Spirit Healer/Blood Mage aspect is very cool, as Cleansing Aura will be able to pop you back to health if you have to switch Blood Magic off and slam a Lyrium Potion down to keep going. I'm not sure how viable this build is compared to an Arcane Warrior/X build, but I've heard success stories of it, and with how I have Wynne specced on my Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage file, she keeps healing for a long time.

Spells
Four different schools of spells, combined with your mage spells/talents, those of your specializations, and even the addition of the Power of Blood school with the Warden's Keep DLC make mages a somewhat peculiar class to build on. However, through months of research, there is a very nice Arcane Warrior shell that allows the mage to pretty much become indestructible, especially while wearing massive armor. This is outlined below:

Arcane Warrior
Combat Magic -> Aura of Might -> Shimmering Shield -> Fade Shroud

Mage
Arcane Bolt -> Arcane Shield

Primal
Rock Armor

Entropy
Weakness -> Paralyze -> Miasma

This allows for some very interesting stuff to happen; Rock Armor provides even more armor, Arcane Shield increases your defense, and Miasma decreases the attack and defense of all enemies within its radius. What does this mean? You can melee more effectively, and your enemies will have trouble hitting you, inflicting little damage if they do! Shimmering Shield is more of a safety button if you're starting to take some major damage, such as during a boss fight, and Fade Shroud further increases your defense while Combat Magic's active, making an Arcane Warrior a tough little cookie.

Now, what is commonly done with the Arcane Warrior is to not just spec into Blood Mage for its abilities, but to also spec in a way where you can effectively provide CC and dish out major damage. Very nice spells for this set include Mind Blast, Force Field, Glyphs and Crushing Prison, alongside Blood Wound from the Blood Mage spec. If you're soloing, you can also take the cold spell chain in the Primal school, allowing for more CC options while you deal damage. Speaking of dealing damage, Arcane Bolt doesn't do badly at all as a spell that can be cast with weapons drawn, and while in the face of mobs, any of the weapon enhancement spells (Flaming Weapons, Frost Weapons, and Telekinetic Weapons) can add on some significant damage, depending on the situation at hand.

Now, if you're planning on being more of a tank/healer/support-style player, you might not want to look into doing too much magical damage and look at doing more melee damage. In this case, the Spirit Healer spec will definitely get the job done, taking spells up to Lifeward, along with Heal and perhaps the Haste chain in the Creation school. This will definitely make it tough for enemies to effectively damage you, but it doesn't really allow to be able to control whole groups of mobs unless you go for the Paralysis Explosion combo (Glyph of Paralysis + Glyph of Repulsion). This is why it's often more viable to stick to the Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage build; Blood Wound is such a powerful spell, effectively throwing down an AoE Crushing Prison on top of your already-lethal supply of spell and melee might.

As for the ranged magic/support build, I can't really say; if you want to be more of a utility mage, some of the same spells the Arcane Warrior can take should also fit into this mold. However, this also opens up the possibility of creating some potent spell combos, such as Entropic Death or Storm of the Century. It's never bad to experiment, but again, to give you the all-around working, it seems Spirit Healer/Blood Mage will carve things right out for you; just go with what you feel is the most fun to your liking, in this case.

Skills
I find that a character's skill set doesn't seem to come up a lot here, but in certain instances, I find that it can provide some different experiences on each playthrough, so keep this in mind. Now, for the PC, there's a certain skill shell that should work for mages all over (with set beginning skills in bold):

Herbalism
Combat Tactics
Coercion -> Improved Coercion -> Expert Coercion -> Master Coercion
Combat Training -> Improved Combat Training

If you're very good at keeping aggro off of you as a ranged mage, you shouldn't need higher than Improved Combat Training; while you might not think you need it at all, extra mana regen for a mage should NEVER be overlooked. Also, to explore all dialogue options, Master Coercion and a little extra Cunning on the side should do very nicely. As for what else to fill in? Well, personally, I wouldn't mind taking up to Improved Survival for the sake of completing the quest "Elora's Halla" in the Dalish Camp; other than that, it depends on how you play. If you decide to go the Arcane Warrior route, you should definitely put at least one point into Poison-Making; with one point in that and Zevran in your camp, capable of making some very potent poisons, you can add even more damage to your melee swings. Otherwise, if you really don't feel like having spells go poof on you, perhaps extra Combat Training wouldn't be bad to take.

Gear
Ah, yes, now we get to the GOOD stuff. So how should you gear up your mage? Again, that all depends on how you specced them. I can definitely tell you that, as an Arcane Warrior, you can definitely go for massive armor. In fact, make sure you get the Warden Commander Armor set if you have the Warden's Keep DLC; this is most definitely the best armor you can get for a DPS Arcane Warrior. For tanking, I haven't seen any real problems with perhaps trying out the Cailan's Armor set that you can obtain from the Return to Ostagar DLC, but you can change it up however you like according to the situation. Obviously, as an Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer, you'll probably want to grab a shield; something like the Fade Wall should do very nicely for that aspect, or you can also go with the Cailan's Arms set (Maric's Blade + Cailan's Shield). As a DPS Arcane Warrior, you'll definitely want a main-hand weapon and a dagger to go with it. The best main-hand weapon you could possibly get, from what I've seen, is the Veshialle from Bodahn Feddic, but other great weapons include Starfang (Longsword) and Spellweaver (obtained in the Urn of Sacred Ashes quest); the daggers you can use will depend on if you decide to pump your Dexterity to use the higher-tier ones. If you do, daggers such as the Rose's Thorn, Duncan's Dagger, and the Dead Thaig Shanker are very awesome to behold; otherwise, you might have to look at sticking to something small, such as the Enchanted Dagger or the Thorn of the Dead Gods (Grey Iron from Barlin in Lothering). Either way (AW/SH or AW/BM), you'll also want to take accessories such as the Key to the City, Andruil's Blessing and some of the DLC rings to boost your stats even more, along with the Helm of Honnleath out of the Stone Prisoner DLC. Just keep in mind that, as an Arcane Warrior, some spells can be cast with weapons drawn, while others require either free hands or a staff to be cast quickly; because of this, some AW players decide to carry around a staff in their second Weapon Set slot to switch to it easily. I haven't found that it was necessary for me, but whatever floats your boat.

As a squishy mage, you'll be looking at dressing to what you'd expect from a normal mage: robes, headwear, a staff, and some accessories to go with it all. From what I've seen, you can definitely go with the First Enchanter's Robes, bought from Cesar in the Denerim Market District if you decide to complete the Trial of the Crows initiated from Master Ignacio. If you're going for a DPS/CC mage, I do believe there's a very powerful staff one can obtain from either the Circle Tower Quartermaster or the Tranquil Propietor in the Wonders of Thedas shop; it increases some beneficial stats, as well as almost all of your elemental damages to boot. If you're going more as a healer/support, you may just want to keep gear that increases Magic and Willpower and keeps you on a low fatigue level. Some of the equipment given above might be a bit unnecessary for a normal mage, so if you're just looking to pump Magic, Spellpower, Willpower, etc., there are some other equips that will get the job done.

So let's break this down into certain builds!

Arcane Warrior/Blood Mage DPS/CC
Head: Helm of Honnleath
Body: Warden Commander Armor
Hands: Warden Commander Gloves
Feet: Warden Commander Boots
Neck: Amulet of the War Mage (+5% all elemental damage, considering you'll be using poisons, seems pretty nice)
Belt: Andruil's Blessing
Ring 1: Key to the City
Ring 2: The Lucky Stone
Weapon Set 1: The Veshialle/Spellweaver/Starfang + dagger (again, this depends on your Dex)
Weapon Set 2: (optional staff here)

Arcane Warrior/Spirit Healer Tank/Heal/Support
Head: Helm of Honnleath
Body: Warden Commander Armor
Hands: Warden Commander Gloves
Feet: Warden Commander Boots
Neck: The Spellward/(something that will increase Willpower will work here)
Belt: Andruil's Blessing
Ring 1: Key to the City
Ring 2: The Lucky Stone
Weapon Set 1: Maric's Blade + Cailain's Shield/Spellweaver + Fade Wall
Weapon Set 2: (optional staff here)

I'll see if I can work up a suitable normal mage attire real soon.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon]

What about Willpower for mages?

[dkjestrup]

^ Uneeded. Completely.



Lyrium pots are cheap, and you have an unlimited supply. Furthermore, the higher your magic, the better lyrium potd (and all potions) work.



This isn't TES4. There are no spells which will require 40 willpower to cast (sadly).

[AlgolagniaVolcae]

http://dragonage.wik...tecuhtli/Boomer

The latest mage I am building, haven't quite finished it yet or added icons, etc.

Modifié par AlgolagniaVolcae, 09 février 2010 - 02:03 .

[nyxocity]

Here's a question I haven't seen addressed (maybe I missed it). I see info on dual wielding daggers, and on dual wielding full size weapons, but what about wielding one full size and one dagger? I've been playing all my dual wields (which are most of my characters) that way based on the old AD&D system rules, which I guess I just assumed applied here, where you can wield one full sized weapon & dagger sized with almost no penalty right from the start. Are there large negatives to this?

[dkjestrup]

Not really. Timortis was talking about using one fullsize/one dagger.



The thing is, Dual Fullsized maximizes your AoE damage, and Dual Daggers maximizes your single target damage. So while Dagger/Fullsized is good, it's not really optimal imo.

[krsboss]

dkjestrup wrote...

Not really. Timortis was

The thing is, Dual Fullsized maximizes your AoE damage, and Dual Daggers maximizes your single target damage. So while Dagger/Fullsized is good, it's not really optimal imo.

however, doesn't using a dagger offside, with a fullsize weapon in the main hand boost the attack speed...so thouhgh it may not be optimal, it's a good comprimise / a bit of both!talking about using one fullsize/one dagger.

Modifié par krsboss, 10 février 2010 - 09:34 .

[Portos247]

Ok, here's a conundrum.  I have an Arcane Warrior that I want to go Blood Mage later.  I also want to Make Liliana a Bard/Ranger so that when I need to draw life from a companion, it can be Liliana's pet.

My question is what kind of build do I go with for Liliana, Dex or Cunning?  I like her being an Archer, so the Dex build would work great for her because her damage is directly related to Dex.  On the other hand, all her Barding abilities are directly related to Cunning.

Anyone got a direction for me?

Modifié par Portos247, 11 février 2010 - 03:20 .

[dkjestrup]

Cunning is your best bet for Leliana. She's not that great if you build her for damage, but with your ranger pet and bard songs, you can be a useful party member.

[Ronin 3000]

Soo... dex is pretty much useless on an AW/BM, even if you plan to switch between melee weapons and staff, right?

Modifié par Ronin 3000, 11 février 2010 - 08:38 .

[dkjestrup]

Unless you want 30 to equip daggers. It can be useful, but with all your other buffs you should be fine attack rating wise.

[Ronin 3000]

What are your thoughts on the shield spells like: Arcane Shield, Shimmering Shield, and Rock Armor? Are they worth it on an Arcane Warrior?

Modifié par Ronin 3000, 11 février 2010 - 09:13 .

[Vanderbilt_Grad]

Rock Armor yes. Shimmering Shield ... depends on the build.