252 réponses à ce sujet

[Davik Kang]

 

macrocarl wrote...
I like your interpretation and came to a similar conclusion myself........ Actually I have several but the one you present here OP is one of my more favorites!

Thanks boss.  Another new player called ealeander just posted his interpretation which is pretty cool here... it's not so dissimilar to the one in this thread, so I'm hoping to tempt him over... indoctrinate him if you will... OOPS

[Davik Kang]

EMS / Crucible

So there was some discussion in the IT thread about the ending and how it's affected by your EMS score.  With low EMS, your choices are limited - you don't get the full four-way choice that you get with high EMS post-EC.  In the worst-case scenario, you only get one of the 3 main choices with very low EMS.

Which one you get depends on your ME2 final choice.  Saving the Collector base means you can oinly pick Control.  Destroying the Collector base means you can only pick Destroy.  The bridges to the other options do not appear for you.  (Presumably, you can still pick Refuse).

Here's a YouTube video someone posted of Control-only ending

With higher EMS scores, you can unlock Synthesis, and eventually, the Breath Scene (appendix to Destroy).

So how does this fit in with EMS?  What rationale is there for the endings?

Some players see the available endings as increased reward for completeing more ME-related content.  But it is difficult to be consistent with this.  Synthesis supporters point out that Syn is the last ending to be unlocked, requiring the highest EMS.  But the Breath ending is even higher, as Destroy and IT supporters note.  Control supporters natuarlly won't see any value in this point at all.

There's overall still a problem because I doubt anyone would rank Destroy Breath Scene as the best ending, Synthesis as the second-best, and the basic Destroy and Control endings as the worst, with the easiest ending being the one that aligns with your ME2 choice.  And to rank them in reverse order... I won't even go there.

But I had an idea as to how it might work.  Your EMS score is mainly associated with your success in pooling galactic forces against the Reapers at any given time.  But it could also be seen to generally reflect your war effort.  And in particular, the more assets you pool, the more resources you are able to allocate to building the Crucible.  So in a way, the EMS score also reflects the work done on the Crucible.

If this is the case, then higher EMS indicates a more 'complete' Crucible by the end of the game.  The machine is capable of providing the Synthesis and Breath scene endings if enough assets and manpower were applied to it.  How?  Well, it's the Crucible + Citadel (or Catalyst depending on your POV) that actually initiates whatever ending you choose.  So it could be that the Citadel was actually designed to initiate Synthesis, but can only do so if the Crucible was sufficiently finished.  Or, the Crucible was designed to Synthesise.  Another possibility is that the rucible is designed to destroy the Reapers, but the Catalyst can harness its power for different purposes.

What about the top ending, Destroy breath scene?  At first glance, this just seems like an easter egg to reward certain players.  But in the IT thread they were talking about the targeting systems for the Crucible.  So it's possible that higher EMS means that the improved targeting systems can be more selective in targeting Reapers as opposed to other forms of life.  What this means for pure synthetics like EDI and the Geth is open to speculation.  It is at least implied that EDI does still die unfortunately.  But the implication of the Destroy-breath scene could indicate that the improved Crucible allowed simpler synthetic systems (such as those found in Shepard's body) to be less affected, and could mean that some partly synthetic beings such as Shepard could survive, as well as arguably implying that the effect of devastation on similar technology (such as electronic systems in space ships, and the Quarians' enviro-suits) would be less affected also, leading to a less horrific end to the war.

As to why the ME2 choice matters at low EMS, it could be that the knowledge from the Collector base was applied to the Crucible in constructing it, making it more appropriate for Control, while the destruction of the collector base meant that the builders were more focused on the primary goal of destroying the Reapers.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 10:47 .

[Dr JaMiN]

This is very well thought out, but I'd still have to disagree with you. As someone else in the IT thread had explained, the more effort that is put into EMS likely increases the reapers' desire to control Shepard. Low EMS Control as the only option means that Shep is too weak to resist, so he has no other options. Low EMS Destroy as the only option is because Shep is pretty useless to the reapers, since he could barely even muster up enough effort to fight back. This option has no breath scene because Shep doesn't have enough willpower to break free. The reason Synthesis is unlocked only with high EMS is because the reapers find Shep to be a very valuable asset, so they offer him the perfect solution, in hopes that he will be their willing thrall. Then there is the breath scene that takes the most EMS of all. This is all assuming the IT is true, but it seems to make the most sense.

[ealeander]

Davik Kang wrote...

 

macrocarl wrote...
I like your interpretation and came to a similar conclusion myself........ Actually I have several but the one you present here OP is one of my more favorites!

Thanks boss.  Another new player called ealeander just posted his interpretation which is pretty cool here... it's not so dissimilar to the one in this thread, so I'm hoping to tempt him over... indoctrinate him if you will... OOPS

My initial read was the same (ending actually happens but control/synthesis are indoctrination attempts), and after playing through the ending again after reading up on hallucination IT, I'm not any less convinced that the Citadel sequence actually happens. So yeah, I'm over.

Modifié par ealeander, 15 octobre 2012 - 03:35 .

[Davik Kang]

ealeander wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...

 

macrocarl wrote...
I like your interpretation and came to a similar conclusion myself........ Actually I have several but the one you present here OP is one of my more favorites!

Thanks boss.  Another new player called ealeander just posted his interpretation which is pretty cool here... it's not so dissimilar to the one in this thread, so I'm hoping to tempt him over... indoctrinate him if you will... OOPS

My initial read was the same (ending actually happens but control/synthesis are indoctrination attempts), and after playing through the ending again after reading up on hallucination IT, I'm not any less convinced that the Citadel sequence actually happens. So yeah, I'm over.

Safe.  Thanks dude.  We can make a new thread if you like.  This name was just a joke name to cheer me up cos I got a bit depressed about all the arguments.

But OMG OMG OMG.  I just found something.  Don't like typing text speak like OMG but I'm just too excited.  Will post ASAP.  It's about the EMS thing.  Will mention in IT thread too.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:47 .

[Davik Kang]

Further update regarding the EMS Crucible theory above.

Cut short, I thought that maybe a higher EMS would mean that the Alliance team would be able to build a more complete Crucible before deadline day of Priority:Earth.

I was talking to Twilight God about the effects of Destroy and he mentioned something about synthetic material being vaporized.  So I watched the endings again.  Watch what happens to the human soldiers when the Destroy wave comes.

Destroy Low EMS - see 31:00 until 32:15

Destroy High EMS - see 1:40 until 2:50

In high EMS, the soldiers live.  But in low EMS, the soldiers are vaporized. 

This could be interpreted as meaning that the 'improved' crucible actually allows the Crucible/Citadel to better distinguish between various types of synthetic material.  Which would mean more accurately targeting Reapers, and less indiscriminately targeting synthetics and synthetic material.

That could mean Geth and EDI survive.  I have to admit, at the moment I doubt that they do.  But it does explain why Shepard survives the High EMS ending, and also gives hope for Kasumi, the Quarians and others more reliant on synthetic technology.

Really wanna hear what people think.  Maybe it is just all nonsense but I am quite excited about it.  Hope we can explore it further.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 04:15 .

[Davik Kang]

Having watched the Magic Elevator bit again, I'll stick to my conclusion that it represents the beginning a the hallucination - an ascent into dream-world if you like.  

It looks completely out of character with any mechanism in the game before;

light shines around you and gets brighter like when you teleport, or go back in time, in a Zelda game; 

the floor doesn't have any indication of the elevator on it in either room;

Shepard asks "where am I" and the Kid doesn't really respond, just says "the Citadel" (which we already knew) and says it's his home, as if he's just saying something and not answering the question;

the beam was not visible in the room 'below' but is now visible right in front of you;

chamber still looks like a combination of the Citadel control room and the Earth bit;  etc.

So I still think the decision chamber is a hallucination, representing the choices avaiable back in reality.

If the Crucible/Citadel was built for Synthesis as I said above, then the Destroy choice involves sabotaging it in some way (represented by shooting it).  Control could be adding yourself to the energy of the Crucible, like the Kid says, or submitting yourself to the creation of a new Reaper, being more useful than the dead humans as you are Shepard and still conscious.  Adding yourself to the Reaper either way - whether being alive or not is an improvement is open for speculation.

Synthesis would involve activating the Crucible/Citadel normally.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:07 .

[Davik Kang]

 Another thing.  Look at these dialogue quotes from the Kid:

Low EMS
- see 27:00 until 28:00

High EMS
- see 27:00 until 28:00

In low EMS, the Kid says that the Crucible is badly damaged, all reliant on synthetic material will be killed including Shepard, and even most organics will be wiped out by the blast.  Worlds will be decimated and even the survivors won't last much longer.  

In High EMS, the Kid says little other than that technology will be affected.  He admits that repairs won't be difficult.  He does however say that "your children will create synthetics", arguably implying that existing synthetics won't survive.

This could mean that the EMS score affects the Crucible because it is damaged on the way to to the Citadel, because your army wasn't stong enough.


Look at these as well:

Low EMS
-see 25:00 until 26:00

High EMS
- see 26:00 until 27:00

In Low EMS, the Kid says "you don't need hope".  But in High EMS, he says "you have hope, more than you think".  You could see this as saying, with low EMS, you have no hope to survive, but with enough EMS, you do.  Could also apply to the various others who will be spared.

Btw in this high EMS vid, just after 22:40, he says "choice", not "hope", but I don't know whether that's because Shep is Renegade or because he picks the Renegade option.

Again these support the idea that stronger EMS implies better Crucible and better chance of survival for various individuals.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 06:08 .

[Davik Kang]

 Does anyone know in which ending the Kid says "you have [hope/choice] - more than you deserve?"  I assume it's based on EMS and / or paragon/renegade scores but I haven't found it yet.

Modifié par Davik Kang, 15 octobre 2012 - 10:49 .

[DrGunjah]

Again these support the idea that stronger EMS implies better Crucible and better chance of survival for various individuals.

If the crucible is just a power source then why does it even work when it's "highly damaged"?
And we're not talking about punks throwing rocks at it. It obviously gets hit by reaper lasers... You know that red lasers that just make pewwww and dreadnoughts break in pieces. Is there even a scene in the game where a reaper fires and it's target doesn't instantly blow up? (except for harbinger shooting at shepard, but well this is stupid anyway)

[The Twilight God]

Davik Kang wrote...

EMS / Crucible

http://social.biowar...0711/9#14514475

EMS outcomes are based on in-game circumstances and can be logically deduced. There is no magic wand waving.

It all comes down to the following in order of importance:
 
1.) Military strength
2.) Reaper Heart or Reaper Brain.
3.) Was Anderson executed or not.

Nothing else matters.

Low EMS Destroy-Only Scenario

A Further Analysis of the Low EMS vs. High EMS
The subject of EMS in relation to ending options

Effective Military Strength (EMS) is the rating that dictates the military strength of your combined fleets. The lower the number, the less effective your forces are against the Reapers. A low EMS (0-1749) results in several reaper destroyers breaking through the Shield Fleet assigned to escort the Crucible. The outcome is that the Crucible is severely damaged upon arrival.

Low EMS

If the Collector Base is destroyed the Reaper Heart survives the blast and is recovered by Cerberus. This "heart" was used by Cerberus to power their headquarters. It is acquired as a war asset once Cerberus HQ is shut down and is utilized in the construction of the Crucible; presumably as a primary power supply to operate its systems. Reaper components are apparently more durable than standard components and therefore survives the reaper attack. The Crucible has power to operate, but its processing systems are degraded. For this reason the Crucible's energy is indiscriminate with low EMS because the Crucible can't perform the necessary calculations to refine its energy.


In the alternate Control-Only scenarios the Reaper Brain is recovered from the intact Collector Base. This "brain" was used by Cerberus as a computational device capable of crunching unheard of amounts of data in nanoseconds. It is acquired as a war asset once Cerberus HQ is shut down and is utilized in the construction of the Crucible; presumably as a primary processing unit which is used to compute the necessary calculations to produce a stable release of energy. Because the Crucible's primary power source is destroyed, it is incapable of operating under its own power and therefore Destroy is not an option. However, the intact "brain" can still be uploaded with Shepard's psychological code and make the necessary computations necessary to distribute this code.

Deductive Analysis:

1. In mid and high EMS scenarios, both Control and Destroy options are available.
2. In low EMS scenarios the heart or brain decide which option of the two (Destroy or Control respectively) is available.
3. Low EMS scenarios results in the Reapers severely damaging the Crucible.
4. Therefore, the greater damage sustained in low EMS scenarios must account for the lack of choices in low EMS scenarios.
5. The Heart is a power source per the codex.
6. The Brain is a computational processor per the codex.
7. The Heart allows for only Destroy in low EMS; Therefore, the ability to destroy must be linked to the presence of the power the heart provides.
8. The Brain allows for only Control in low EMS; Therefore, the ability to utilize the control prongs must be linked to the presence of the computational computer.
9. Given the fact that the human reaper parts survive the Reaper attacks against the Crucible and the fact that if those parts aren't present its associated capabilities are lost, it is deduced that the Reaper parts are more durable than the standard non-reaper parts that take their place if they are absent.
10. If you have the heart, you do not have the processor brain. Therefore you have a power source for the Crucible, but no computational capabilities.
11. If you have the processor brain you do not have the heart. Therefore you have computational capabilities, but no power to run the Crucible.
12. The lack of computational capabilities and the presence of a power source allows for an energy release that destroys everything indiscriminately.
13. The presence of computational capabilities and a power source (in mid and high EMS) allows for a Crucible that targets reaper technology.
14. Conclusion #1: The computational capabilities of the Crucible determine the effects of the blast wave.
15. The lack of a power source and presence of computational capabilities allows for the control ending with damage to the Normandy, Big Ben collapsing and critical damage to the relays.
16. The presence of computational capabilities and a power source (in mid and high EMS) results in the control ending with minimum damage to the relays, Big Ben standing and a relatively undamaged Normandy.
17. The lack of computational capabilities and the presence of a power source results in the inability to initiate the control ending.
18: Conclusion #2: Control is not heavily dependent on the Crucible's power, but instead is dependent on its computational capabilities.

Mid EMS

In this scenarios the Crucible has taken damage, but not enough for any crucial system to be outright destroyed. The presence of either the Heart or the Brain still matter however. Therefore, it can be deduced that some amount of damage to the non-reaper component still takes place. For instance, if you have the brain the EMS requirements for the high EMS version of the control ending is lowered. Likewise, if you have the heart the EMS requirement to achieve the high EMS Destroy ending is lowered.

The Crucible is too damaged to power Synthesis, which is essentially forming synthetic molecules from pure energy. The power requirements would equate to a nuclear detonation per atom. Multiply this by the amount of new atoms created to match existing atoms and Synthesis requires enough energy to match or nearly match the energy contained within the entire galaxy. Or convert that same amount of dark matter into traditional matter. Yes, it's absurd. Regardless, this is why Synthesis requires a high EMS.

High EMS

This designation varies depending on the ending and which reaper component you possess. However, for the purposes of this thesis high EMS represents a score high enough to allow for all three Crucible related endings. In this scenario the Crucible takes no damage. At least none that we see on screen. The following are EMS requirement (ignoring reaper component bonuses) that may or may not be accurate.

Destroy:
Low EMS: 0 - 1749
Mid EMS 1750 - 2649
High EMS: 2650 and up

Control
Low EMS: 0 - 2349
High EMS: 2350 and up

Synthesis:
High EMS - 2800 EMS and up

With an EMS of 3100 and up Shepard can survive the Destroy ending assuming The Illusive Man did not execute Anderson. If Anderson was executed I believe the requirement is 4000 EMs and up. The survival at 3100+ may represent the fact that rescue teams arrived in time to save Shepard's life due to a higher number of surviving forces and hence a greater number of search teams combing the Citadel for survivors. At the beginning of the breathe scene you can hear debris being shuffled around indicated rescuers are nearby. So the next question is why does the manner in which Anderson dies matter at all? It is possible that he did not die right away, but rather regained consciousness while Shepard was chatting with Starbinger and managed to inform the Alliance where they were which narrowed down the search. Or perhaps Anderson didn't die and is the one we hear shuffling through the debris if you have 3100+ EMS. Speculation for everyone.

Modifié par The Twilight God, 15 octobre 2012 - 10:18 .

[Davik Kang]

The Twilight God wrote...
snip

Hi.  In the time since I posted the above, I have been reading through your stuff and have seen that.  Would you consider actually responding to the individual points I made?  There aren't so many as in your list.  If I have to go through your post point by point I will, just asking if you might isolate a few of my points instead to make the discussion easier.

[Blueprotoss]

Bill Casey wrote...

Xilizhra wrote...

I propose a compromise: if you choose Destroy, your theory was right, whereas if I choose Control/Synthesis, mine was right. That way, both of us can be happy. Will this work?

That requires throwing out the entire trilogy...

How is that when the ME trilogy revolves around Control, Destroy, and Synthesis.

Bill Casey wrote...

Saren: "The transformation from ally to servant can be subtle. I will not let it happen to me."

Saren did become a Reaper pawn just like how later TIM became his replacement with a different goal.  Ironically Shepard later became a Reaper pawn as well.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 octobre 2012 - 10:34 .

[Blueprotoss]

Davik Kang wrote...

Further update regarding the EMS Crucible theory above.

Cut short, I thought that maybe a higher EMS would mean that the Alliance team would be able to build a more complete Crucible before deadline day of Priority:Earth.

I was talking to Twilight God about the effects of Destroy and he mentioned something about synthetic material being vaporized.  So I watched the endings again.  Watch what happens to the human soldiers when the Destroy wave comes.

Destroy Low EMS - see 31:00 until 32:15

Destroy High EMS - see 1:40 until 2:50

In high EMS, the soldiers live.  But in low EMS, the soldiers are vaporized. 

This could be interpreted as meaning that the 'improved' crucible actually allows the Crucible/Citadel to better distinguish between various types of synthetic material.  Which would mean more accurately targeting Reapers, and less indiscriminately targeting synthetics and synthetic material.

That could mean Geth and EDI survive.  I have to admit, at the moment I doubt that they do.  But it does explain why Shepard survives the High EMS ending, and also gives hope for Kasumi, the Quarians and others more reliant on synthetic technology.

Really wanna hear what people think.  Maybe it is just all nonsense but I am quite excited about it.  Hope we can explore it further.

To be fair the Geth and EDI would need to remove all of the Reaper tech to be removed to survive.

[Davik Kang]

Blueprotoss wrote...
To be fair the Geth and EDI would need to remove all of the Reaper tech to be removed to survive.

Yep like I said I doubt they survive.  Might provide hope for some though.  The point is Reaper Kid makes the threat to Shepard about the consequences of Destroy, but he never actually says anyone will die if you have enough EMS.  He just says all technology will be affected.  And that repairs will be straightforward.

[Blueprotoss]

Davik Kang wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
To be fair the Geth and EDI would need to remove all of the Reaper tech to be removed to survive.

Yep like I said I doubt they survive.  Might provide hope for some though.  The point is Reaper Kid makes the threat to Shepard about the consequences of Destroy, but he never actually says anyone will die if you have enough EMS.  He just says all technology will be affected.  And that repairs will be straightforward.

This is true.  The Catalyst doesn't directly tell us that the Geth and EDI will be killed but we know in ME1 that the Geth have Reaper tech in them and in ME3 that EDI's new body was built from Reaper tech.  Personally I don't see how some people miss this and I just want to make sure that this isn't directed at you.

[Davik Kang]

DrGunjah wrote...
If the crucible is just a power source then why does it even work when it's "highly damaged"?
And we're not talking about punks throwing rocks at it. It obviously gets hit by reaper lasers... You know that red lasers that just make pewwww and dreadnoughts break in pieces. Is there even a scene in the game where a reaper fires and it's target doesn't instantly blow up? (except for harbinger shooting at shepard, but well this is stupid anyway)

Not sure how I can answer that but it is stated in-game.  The lower EMS you have, the more damaged the Crucible is.  (I thought there were only two brackets but the Twilight God pointed out there are three - does anyone have a link to a mid-EMS Destroy ending?  So we can hear the dialogue?)

Also, might not be Reaper lasers, it seems in the space battle there are more kinds of things going on.  OT but maybe some future content could be about the mission to protect the Crucible on the way to the Citadel.

Of course, if you go by my other idea that better EMS allows the team to build a more complete Crucible. then the damage to the Crucible is more incompleteness than actual firefight damage.  But the dialogue from the Kid does lean on the side of firefight damage.

[Davik Kang]

Blueprotoss wrote...
... we know in ME1 that the Geth have Reaper tech in them and in ME3 that EDI's new body was built from Reaper tech.  Personally I don't see how some people miss this and I just want to make sure that this isn't directed at you.

Ah ok.  I think the Reaper tech isn't actually relevant because the Catalyst says that the mechansim won't discriminate, and that all tech will be affected.  This is assuming that the Kid is telling the truth.  Nonetheless I still imagine that the Geth and EDI die because, although the damage to tech may be repairable, I don't think thier personalities will be retrievable.  Got no evidence for it though, it just seems to be implied by the short EDI closeup cutscene when you shoot the tubes.

[Wayning_Star]

Davik Kang wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...
... we know in ME1 that the Geth have Reaper tech in them and in ME3 that EDI's new body was built from Reaper tech.  Personally I don't see how some people miss this and I just want to make sure that this isn't directed at you.

Ah ok.  I think the Reaper tech isn't actually relevant because the Catalyst says that the mechansim won't discriminate, and that all tech will be affected.  This is assuming that the Kid is telling the truth.  Nonetheless I still imagine that the Geth and EDI die because, although the damage to tech may be repairable, I don't think thier personalities will be retrievable.  Got no evidence for it though, it just seems to be implied by the short EDI closeup cutscene when you shoot the tubes.

Actually, the Kid, cannot tell anything that is considered a 'truth' only true or false. Anyone who tries to read stuff into the kids dialogue are only head cononing. Its human nature to associate stuff they're thinking and try'n 'read between the lines'. The video game engines and imaginative construction hasn't figured out a way to put 'nuance' into the conversations that I've seem so far...

(i never shoot the tubes.. too friggen dangerous.)

Modifié par Wayning_Star, 15 octobre 2012 - 11:19 .

[Blueprotoss]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Actually, the Kid, cannot tell anything that is considered a 'truth' only true or false. Anyone who tries to read stuff into the kids dialogue are only head cononing. Its human nature to associate stuff they're thinking and try'n 'read between the lines'. The video game engines and imaginative construction hasn't figured out a way to put 'nuance' into the conversations that I've seem so far...

(i never shoot the tubes.. too friggen dangerous.)

How is that when nothing in ME is known outside of the Milky Way and ME mostly focuses on the current cycle with a small amount of the previous cycle.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 octobre 2012 - 11:30 .

[Wayning_Star]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Actually, the Kid, cannot tell anything that is considered a 'truth' only true or false. Anyone who tries to read stuff into the kids dialogue are only head cononing. Its human nature to associate stuff they're thinking and try'n 'read between the lines'. The video game engines and imaginative construction hasn't figured out a way to put 'nuance' into the conversations that I've seem so far...

(i never shoot the tubes.. too friggen dangerous.)

How is that when nothing in ME is known outside of the Milky Way and ME mostly focuses on the current cycle with a small amount of the previous cycle.

You'll have to elaborate on that. What is meant by "outside the Milky Way"? How does that related to my post?

[Blueprotoss]

Wayning_Star wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Wayning_Star wrote...

Actually, the Kid, cannot tell anything that is considered a 'truth' only true or false. Anyone who tries to read stuff into the kids dialogue are only head cononing. Its human nature to associate stuff they're thinking and try'n 'read between the lines'. The video game engines and imaginative construction hasn't figured out a way to put 'nuance' into the conversations that I've seem so far...

(i never shoot the tubes.. too friggen dangerous.)

How is that when nothing in ME is known outside of the Milky Way and ME mostly focuses on the current cycle with a small amount of the previous cycle.

You'll have to elaborate on that. What is meant by "outside the Milky Way"? How does that related to my post?

So far ME has only been in the Milky Way galaxy and thats a very small part of the universe.  It relates to your comment that we don't know enough on whether the Catalyst either "lied" or was "honest".  All we know is that Created vs Creator is inevitable even between organics like with in a family.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 15 octobre 2012 - 11:42 .

[The Twilight God]

Davik Kang wrote...

The Twilight God wrote...
snip

Hi. In the time since I posted the above, I have been reading through your stuff and have seen that. Would you consider actually responding to the individual points I made? There aren't so many as in your list. If I have to go through your post point by point I will, just asking if you might isolate a few of my points instead to make the discussion easier.

OK.

But I had an idea as to how it might work. Your EMS score is mainly associated with your success in pooling galactic forces against the Reapers at any given time. But it could also be seen to generally reflect your war effort. And in particular, the more assets you pool, the more resources you are able to allocate to building the Crucible. So in a way, the EMS score also reflects the work done on the Crucible.

Your saying that the Crucible is incomplete in low EMS despite it being said to be "ready, accept for the Catalyst"?

Given the plans they have, they would have to have sent it in knowing it was not 100% complete if what you propose is true. Given the fact that they don't know exactly how it works how can they afford to skip certain steps? Especially given what's at stake. There is no indication that they half-assed it; no dialog which in any way implies the Crucible is any more or less complete in low or mid EMS.

Looking at the war assets, I say you have better quality components. But nothing you retrieve in the form of war assets add any completely new functionality or represent anything that wouldn't be aquired via a comercial-of-the-shelf equivalent

So it could be that the Citadel was actually designed to initiate Synthesis, but can only do so if the Crucible was sufficiently finished. Or, the Crucible was designed to Synthesise.

This can be objectively proven untrue. The Crucible is not responsible for Synthesis or Control. I'm not going to post all three deductive points here as you've said you read them. I'll just use the ones for Synthesis.

1. The Crucible docks, but is not arming.
2. Shepard leaps into the chasm beam, takes on a husk-like visage and then disintegrates.
3. The Crucible arms and fires.
4. It is thus deduced that Shepard's presence within the contraption's energy beam was in accordance with the contraption's intended purpose.
5. It can thus be further deduced that the beveled synthesis array, and by association the entire contraption, were constructed with the intent of interacting with the Crucible.
6. It has been confirmed that the contraptions at eye level are NOT a part of the Crucible.
7. The contraptions are built into and plugged into the Citadel.
8. If the contraptions were built by the Citadel's organic inhabitants, per the Crucible's schematics, it would be known that the Citadel was a component beforehand. That is not the case.
9. The Citadel is of Reaper construction.
10. Conclusion: the Reapers built the Contraption.
11. If the Reapers built a contraption that interfaces with the Crucible, the Reaper must have some technical details on the Crucible in order to have the understanding of how it works in order to build a device tailored to interfacing with the Crucible.
12. Given all of the above, the Crucible did not create new possibilities. It merely allowed for premeditated functionalities to be actualized.
13. Given the above fact, they must already be aware of the viability of Synthesis prior to the Crucible docking if, in fact, all the Crucible does is provide the power. As the only limiting factor prior to the Crucible docking is power, everything else must have been already built and ready to go.
 
Unless you disagree, in which case I'd need you to point out which points are flawed (i.e. flawed deduction), I will work from this unchallenged premise. I'm stating absolutely and unequivocally that I am right and anyone disagreeing is wrong. I'm stating my deduction constitutes fact. So if you think I'm wrong I'd like to know what I'm missing, valid alternative explanations, etc. Otherwise, anything stated contrary to these points is automatically wrong within the context of any continued discussion because until my assertion of fact is debunked, it is true in the context of this discussion. This is a debating rule. I'm not trying to come off as authoritative.

What about the top ending, Destroy breath scene? At first galnce, this just seems like an easter egg to reward certain players. But in the IT thread they were talking about the targeting systems for the Crucible. So it's possible that higher EMS means that the improved targeting systems can be more selective in targeting Reapers as opposed to other forms of life. What this means for pure synthetics like EDI and the Geth is open to speculation. It is at least implied that EDI does still die unfortunately. But the implication of the Destroy-breath scene could indicate that the improved Crucible allowed simpler synthetic systems (such as those found in Shepard's body) to be less affected, and could mean that some partly synthetic beings such as Shepard could survive, as well as arguably implying that the effect of devastation on similar technology (such as electronic systems in space ships, and the Quarians' enviro-suits) would be less affected also, leading to a less horrific end to the war.

 
This is one of the major problems with people who insist the Geth die. This fabricated concept that one piece of technology is inherently "more synthetic" than another. Shepard's implants are 100% synthetics. A geth prime platform is 100% synthetic. . An omni-tool is 100% synthetic. A geth colossus is 100% synthetic.  An Alliance cruiser is 100% synthetics. A Geth cruiser is 100% synthetic. All synthetics must be affected identically.
 
 If the Geth die (memory fried) than all memory must be fried.
 
Kasumi's graybox? Fried. So she's dead or brain damaged for life.
 
Ships? That means travel is impossible. All the navigational data and every piece of software in every single piece of technology is gone. So the ships in the fleet wouldn't be going anywhere. They all must die in the cold of space. They cannot eye-ball the exact direction to fly toward. Especial when you're dealing with FTL speeds. The dangers are astronomically too great. Even with navigational computers they are normally off my thousands or hundreds of thousands of miles.
 
Every bit of knowledge stored on any medium is lost forever. All backups - everything - gone. That's the collective knowledge of all cultures reduced to what the survivors can remember off the top of their heads and what remains of books that weren't burned or otherwise destroyed.
 
If we view the synthetic destruction in a more general manner there are even more problems.
 
Biotics? Fried. All receive nerve and/or brain damaged.
Shepard? Spinal implants fail. The Lazarus scene shows he had a c3/c4 vertebrae break (1 of 3). We saw that Cerberus repaired the spine using cybernetic parts. A break that high would leave the person incapable of breathing.
Quarians depend on their suits and extension cybernetic augmentation. So the greatest epidemic in their history is sure to follow.
All ships are dead in the water.
Normandy? It's not taking off.
Weapons? The lights should shut off and they should be inop.
Armor? Light should shut down. Garrus's visor should be shutdown.
All mass effect fields are kaput so forget about anyone surviving on the Citadel.
The Citadel? It's losses all power.
 
That doesn't happen.
 
The fleets? Lights, engines, comms, etc. working.
The Normany? Lights, doors, mass effect fields, engines, comms, etc. working.
Weapons and armor? All the lights are still functioning. Not even so much as a flciker.
Kasumi? Greybox destruction didn't kill her or bestow permanent brain damage.
Shepard? Cybernetic don't fail.  Able to breathe even though he has a synthetic C3/C4 vertebrae augmentation.
Quarians? Extensive cybernetics didn't explode. No mass epidemic when suits and synthetics failed.
The Citadel? Lights are still on after the initial blast. No signs of damage prior to its (relay) overloading.
Biotics? Kaiden, Javik, Liara, the asari on Thessia weren't hospitalized from implant/amp injuries.

All those synthetic things are shown to continue working just fine. So how the hell can anyone cherry pick the Geth and say they outright die, but everything else is OK? How are the Geth "pure synthetic" while all the Ship computers aren't. I can assure you that there is nobody on those ships who can piece together an entire galactic map, calculate the movement and gravitational shifts caused by billions of starts from memory. Not even a salarian.
 
 

As to why the ME2 choice matters at low EMS, it could be that the knowledge from the Collector base was applied to the Crucible in constructing it, making it more appropriate for Control, while the destruction of the collector base meant that the builders were more focused on the primary goal of destroying the Reapers.

 
This is what I replied to here: http://social.biowar...0711/9#14520129

Modifié par The Twilight God, 16 octobre 2012 - 12:58 .

[Jadebaby]

Davik Kang wrote...

Is it just me, or does it look like there's absolutely no Mass Effect fields present in this picture? I know they're invisible. But it just gives the illusion that those buildings are in the vacuum of space.

[Davik Kang]

Jade8aby88 wrote...
Is it just me, or does it look like there's absolutely no Mass Effect fields present in this picture? I know they're invisible. But it just gives the illusion that those buildings are in the vacuum of space.

It's a good point.  I wonder how Bioware would explain this one.  Maybe they'd say that the Citadel's so large it retains an atmosphere.  Doesn't sound great.