297 réponses à ce sujet

[Sihmm]

What made me most uncomfortable about the Dragoon when I first encountered it - apart from the initial "this doesn't feel like a cerberus unit" reaction - is that I encountered it in the context of:

- Firebase Glacier being gutted into a pale shadow of itself (yes, emotive language, I feel the changes really break the flow of the map and I was very fond of it before) to stop a specific farming/camping strategy
- Firebase White being improved dramatically, but also transparently to stop farming
- Pyros being made ungrabbable, seeming suspiciously like an anti-farming measure
- Geth Combat Drone being given the ability to flank players and knock them out of cover
- Geth Bomber being added, again very transparently to make camp-farming harder
- An entire faction of anti-camper enemies being added (admittedly a very cool one)

In the context of that, the Dragoon just looks like another anti-farmer measure. And not a very good one.

We had what, 6 months of nothing but Geth buffs and no other mechanics changes while BioWare representatives stated they had no problem with camping as it was clever to formulate a strategy and stick to it. Then suddenly in the space of a week we get a tidal wave of anti-camping measures. It doesn't sit well with me. It feels like a sudden knee-jerk away from balanced gameplay. The changes don't affect me much because I have always preferred roaming freely around a map (I think the game is actually easier that way, anyway), but I still feel very cynical about them. Had each change been released one at a time I'd probably be fine with it, but the abrupt, dramatic swing away from a dull but accepted form of gameplay is very jarring.

So yeah, in that context, it's really hard to like the Dragoon. But at least I don't hate it. (Except soloing.)

[DullahansXMark]

Like I've said frequently, stop trying to take them on close-range and use long-range, hard-hitting weaponry. Not that they're even that hard to take on close-range anyway.

For reference, I use a Havoc Soldier with a Piranha against them. Not hard at all, and I'm doing exactly what I said isn't a good strategy in dealing with them.

[Arppis]

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

Dragoons come at you. I like that about them.

Ah, you like it when man shows some iniative, I take it? 

[upinya slayin]

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

They're designed to flush you out. I'm not seeing the problem with them. Yea, they look a bit goofy, but so does the phantom's standing stance and the husk's run.

Flushing out with smart flanking when the situation is right would be fine. Flushing you out with banzai tactics is super goofy as you said. 

They're no more aggressive than most players. Also, seeing how every other unit forces the player into cover, an overbearingly aggressive unit is just what the Cerbs needed. He's like their faster, squishier Pyro that can't kill as fast. 

That overagressiveness (actually more like a Psychotic obsessed behaviour) does NOT FIT with the rest of old school Cerberus. 

See the original vision was this: 

www.youtube.com/watch

Now they forked it up. There's no real difference between Cerberus, Geth or Reapers now.  

Yea, that's the original, where practically every character can faceroll every faction. Vision or not, Cerbs would be hands down the easiest faction without the 'goon squad there to bust your bunker

They HAD to do it better. And in a not such obvious and cheap anti-camper way. I don't like campers myself, but when you can't even have a moment to reload your SR in CLOAK without a pack of  Dragoons apprearing out nowhere to melee you is cheesy. 

I do believe that Dragoons will get slowed down. They have to do at least that. They already don't take cover, so this ludicrous speed is over doing it by a lot. 

i'd give more opinion but i'm just a bronze spawn nuking scrub like slimjim so what do i know?

[Arppis]

I don't know how tough they are at gold, but on bronze and silver they are piece of cake.

Again, might be supa hard on gold, I have been too busy griding for this stupid Earth award.

[jacobfl11]

Best strategy-
1. Play as N7 Slayer Vanguard
2. Max out Biotic Charge and Phase Disruptor
3. Use Phase Disruptor x2, Biotic Charge
4. Repeat Step 3
5. ???
6. Profit

[upinya slayin]

Air Quotes wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Apl_J wrote...

They're designed to flush you out. I'm not seeing the problem with them. Yea, they look a bit goofy, but so does the phantom's standing stance and the husk's run.

Flushing out with smart flanking when the situation is right would be fine. Flushing you out with banzai tactics is super goofy as you said. 

They're no more aggressive than most players. Also, seeing how every other unit forces the player into cover, an overbearingly aggressive unit is just what the Cerbs needed. He's like their faster, squishier Pyro that can't kill as fast. 

That overagressiveness (actually more like a Psychotic obsessed behaviour) does NOT FIT with the rest of old school Cerberus. 

See the original vision was this: 

www.youtube.com/watch

Now they forked it up. There's no real difference between Cerberus, Geth or Reapers now.  

Yea, that's the original, where practically every character can faceroll every faction. Vision or not, Cerbs would be hands down the easiest faction without the 'goon squad there to bust your bunker

They HAD to do it better. And in a not such obvious and cheap anti-camper way. I don't like campers myself, but when you can't even have a moment to reload your SR in CLOAK without a pack of  Dragoons apprearing out nowhere to melee you is cheesy. 

I do believe that Dragoons will get slowed down. They have to do at least that. They already don't take cover, so this ludicrous speed is over doing it by a lot. 

i'd give more opinion but i'm just a bronze spawn nuking scrub like slimjim so what do i know?

I NEVER said that. 

lol wasn't directed at you. i know you and ashen defended the guy who made that comment. I tease myself. its amusing. i mean it is a game and all. its not WW3

[Chi_Mangetsu]

X-posted from a similar thread:

From what I'm seeing in the thread, the most common point of agreement is

• Give them sound effects for movement, chatter, and attacks so that we know they exist (the Phoenix class shouts aren't cutting it); this is especially important because Cerbies and Reaper boss units have almost the same presence as L4D special infected. Their chatter let's you know they're around and lets you prepare accordingly--even if that means bending over to kiss your ass goodbye. So some sort of chatter and attack sfx at the very least seem to be absolutely essential.
• Give them a more complicated attack structure than blitzing. Perhaps make them flankers. That'll certainly stir terror in the hearts of campers everywhere. Perhaps with this give their a chatter a radius to players with those with power enhanced senses (geth hunter mode, MQ tactical scan) getting a wider radius to hear their chatter.
• Give them a more varied attack structure than just spamming Smash and the occasional pistol shot. Maybe let them Lash campers from afar.

How do folks feel about this? Do these points sum up the general feeling of dissatisfaction with this unit?

Modifié par Chi_Mangetsu, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:11 .

[sclera]

I see this community still finds difficult things that are not difficult at all. It's like none have you have ever played a video game before 2012.

[Arppis]

Air Quotes wrote...

Arppis wrote...

LadyNemsis21 wrote...

Dragoons come at you. I like that about them.

Ah, you like it when man shows some iniative, I take it? 

Dragoon without a helmet:



BEWARE!

WHAT A MAN!

Jiovanie- wrote...

Arppis wrote...

I don't know how tough they are at gold, but on bronze and silver they are piece of cake.

Again,
might be supa hard on gold, I have been too busy griding for this
stupid Earth award.

They're a bit annoying on Gold, but only
because they're like Wolves. They run in packs, and I've started
noticing that unlike the Geth they will go after the weakest link
usually. In my matches, they often went after the very person who didn't
have anything to deal with armored enemies. They never run though. If
you get gang raped by 3, it's best to attempt to flee....if you can.

Ah, alright. Atleast on silver it was kinda funny to fight 3 of them and phantom at same time. Was able to pull trough thanks to cryo explosions on my N7 Paladin. Heh.

Modifié par Arppis, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:17 .

[esaint1962]

Jiovanie- wrote...

I will not join your little pity party here. o.o I have fought Cerberus well over a great number of times since the DLC came out. One of my PSN buddies from here insisted on CerbGold for about 6 hours straight. I learned to deal with them, and everyone else needs to do the same. I'm still quite a nub at this game, and I only complain about glitches that are somewhat ludicrous.

Characters that could easily destroy the Dragoon:
-N7 Paladin:Put up your shield let him strike it, shield bash, snap freeze/incinerate, repeat
-N7 Shadow: TC + SS then Heavy melee or ES
-Batarian Soldier/Sentinel: Ballistic blades/Submission net then Heavy melee or unleash bullets into his anus.
-Krogans: I've watched Krogans destroy the Dragoons left and right all day today.
-Geth Engineer: Overload + Collector AR(Piercing Mod) Dodge appropriately and you will succeed.
-Any Adept could probably deal with him if their cooldown is low enough.
Anyone wanna add to my list? o.o

My N7 Fury brought down 3 at the same time. In Silver Wave 11 in Dagger, 3 of them ran to me and hit my AF, being close to each other, one Throw and all three staggered and down to 3 bars then I ran to them and another AF/Throw/BE, all 3 were down.

Modifié par esaint1962, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:17 .

[TouchedByYou]

I can't solo Cerberus anymore because of these guys lol. If I'm unlucky and get a 4 points objective they never fail to knock me off of it right when im about to finish it. I kill them, start it again as fast as possible, and right when I'm almost done, the dragoon squad shows up again. Honestly, it's kind of funny, but extremely frustrating at the same time.

[Chi_Mangetsu]

TouchedByYou wrote...

I can't solo Cerberus anymore because of these guys lol. If I'm unlucky and get a 4 points objective they never fail to knock me off of it right when im about to finish it. I kill them, start it again as fast as possible, and right when I'm almost done, the dragoon squad shows up again. Honestly, it's kind of funny, but extremely frustrating at the same time.

Apparently they have the same thermal vision as Atlases because they always see through my Tac Cloak even when they hadn't even spawned when I Cloaked and I hadn't broken Cloak and always on 4 Things objectives. Maybe that's why they're armored; maybe they're more machine than man.

[iyFale]

One reason why I keep playing Vanguard. They are the one who being staggered on gold.

[mbergeron468]

I think the OP and air quotes should stick to bronze and silver,but not against cerberus as clearly they cannot handle a weak armor unit. If you can't handle a new unit then don't play that enemy, but don't complain because it flushes you out of your camping corner maybe you are not that good at camping.

[upinya slayin]

Air Quotes wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

Air Quotes wrote...

Again Ashen, It's not about how we can take em out. You can take em out in myriads of ways.

It's about BAD design. You can't have an enemy spawn on 1 side of the map and close in on you in 5 seconds flat to melee you disregarding cloak or damage taken. Even Banshees stop warping when you get them down to armor. Hunters also slow down when you take out their shields. These Mo-fo's just DON'T STOP. EVER. Literally like Terminators. And they suppose to be human. This is lazy, old trick to keep the player on his toes. But it can and should be done better at this day and age. 

We can't have this again.

www.youtube.com/watch



 

lol they are fast. but comng from someone who loves CQC i welcome it. i'd rather have a low armor guy rush at me (like a brute or dragoon) then a pahtom across the map sniping me while flipping with a DR so high a claymore to the head doens't kill them (they get 80% DR while dodging) and they block powers. dragoons go down easily. I can see them swarming you being an issue but 1 on 1 give me a dragoon over a pahntom every day. I usually carry a "phantom" weapon when playing Unknown or ceberus just in case. no other enemy makes me carry a special weapon for them

They also invalidate builds that are suited for support and avoiding CQC fight. You can't run away from them (like you can with Brutes or Banshees), they are hard to snipe, they mostly ignore decoys and turrets , they ignore cloak. AND they also have ranged attack.  

honestly i rarely do the support thing. I don't coordinate we all kinda play whatever classes and do our own thing (unless were speed running) but i come to do damage or try otu somehting new/funny.

I could see an issue with that though. I'm sure tehy have a weakness for support classes though. It just needs to be found.

Give me a support class to use on them and i'll try it out

Solo. Cerberus. Ranged 1 shot weapon. Sniper, no shotguns. 

thats not aclass. your limiting me to a javelin, widow, mantis, or kishock on a solo? i don't think i'm that good lol

[CrimsonN7]

On gold I usually stick to my geth engineer against Cerberus with my M-98, Dragoons will flush you out but I don't like camping maps, it's boring and you gotta learn how to adapt. I find sticking in pairs works best, well on gold for me anyway.

[Arppis]

Jiovanie- wrote...

That's exactly what I do with the Paladin. Can take 3 at once + a Phantom. It's like he was made to deal with them.

Indeed.