Greetings.
I realise that many people feel that DA2 is an inferior game compared to it's predecessor. I guess I'm a minority that feels like the sequel completely lives up to it's name, and has many elements that are vastly improved over the original (worse, too of course)
I do hope that Bioware takes the best from both games and incorporate them into DA 3: I
The Bad:
Items and runes are generally pretty boring in DA2. I liked the original better, it had more depth and variety to it. This is one point where BioWare needs to go back to it's roots (or better, improve it).
The scenery in DA2 also get's old pretty quick. For the majority of the game, you're stuck in Kirkwall running errands. The open world in DA:O worked much better for me.
The Good
Combat dynamics are leaps and bounds better in DA2. I just finished DA2 and decided to play Awakening (which I hadn't previously) and it felt like a drag. DA:O combat is slow and clumbsy. In fact, the fast interactive combat of DA2 is probably one of it's best features.
Skills and talents
Again, DA2 wins out. Skill points has a bigger impact than the original, and the tree has more coherency. While playing DA:O, upon leveling up I would think to myself: "Hmm, should I get another offensive rogue skill that I probably won't have the stamina to use, or get a passive that has no real effect on my gameplay"? While in DA my rogue felt like a complete gamechanging powerhouse once she acquired Assinate and Vendetta.
The story
I know, many will disagree with me here. But what really intrigued me about DA2 was that it wasn't so much about good vs evil, but political ambitions and moral dilemma. I thoroughly enjoyed it, it felt fresh. I'd say they're about equal, in their own ways..
All in all, if DA3 has an improved version of DA:O's item and socketing system and the open world, while it takes the combat mechanics and Talent system from DA2 - and then finds a balance between the two stories - then DA3 should be an amazing game imo.
Disagree all you like, this is just my personal opinion.
Taking the best from both worlds: DA:O and DA2
Débuté par
Cavemandiary
, oct. 11 2012 09:28
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#2
Posté 11 octobre 2012 - 10:27
Sable Rhapsody
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I'm in the minority right there with you. I also preferred DA2 over DA:O. Not so much because of the combat (TBH I thought the combat in DA2 was serviceable at best, though still an improvement over DA:O), but because of the refreshing take on characters and story.
Even in BioWare's more acclaimed RPGs, like KOTOR and BG, the story's pretty bog-standard. Go save world from bad guy, fall in love, and become awesome in the process. DA2 turned this story formula on its ear. You don't always win. You can't fix everyone. You lose the people you love. Thedas is a messy place, and things don't always work out for the best. Talk about a sucker punch of an ending for someone romancing Anders, but I loved it.
DA2's roleplaying restricted the player's ability to change Thedas to a more realistic scope while still allowing me to define who Hawke was, how s/he felt. It let me TRY to achieve peace, TRY to fix Anders, even though I wasn't going to succeed. That's what differentiates IMO the restrictions in DA2 from, say, the autodialogue restrictions in ME3, and makes DA2 the better game for roleplaying the PC. As long as they don't dictate how the protagonist thinks and feels, restrictions on what the PC can achieve actually make the game more interesting.
Even in BioWare's more acclaimed RPGs, like KOTOR and BG, the story's pretty bog-standard. Go save world from bad guy, fall in love, and become awesome in the process. DA2 turned this story formula on its ear. You don't always win. You can't fix everyone. You lose the people you love. Thedas is a messy place, and things don't always work out for the best. Talk about a sucker punch of an ending for someone romancing Anders, but I loved it.
DA2's roleplaying restricted the player's ability to change Thedas to a more realistic scope while still allowing me to define who Hawke was, how s/he felt. It let me TRY to achieve peace, TRY to fix Anders, even though I wasn't going to succeed. That's what differentiates IMO the restrictions in DA2 from, say, the autodialogue restrictions in ME3, and makes DA2 the better game for roleplaying the PC. As long as they don't dictate how the protagonist thinks and feels, restrictions on what the PC can achieve actually make the game more interesting.
#3
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 12:28
LTD
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Best thing about DA II is how I feel no need or pressure to get all constructive when expressing my unconditional hatred of it. It is such raw, pure undistilled nerd rage despise that pouring it out makes liberating, relaxing and therapeutic experience. DA II SUX!!!!! No, seriously, it does. Also, scenery during first 25 mins into the game looks like ****. I don't mean this in slightly vulgar, unconstructive sense. It just literally looks like **** What is the point in setting opening scenes of the game to Ferelden if it takes place in some alternative universe where Ferelden looks like ****, rather than Ferelden or ruined Ferelden.
DA:O did so many things right. Most fondly I'll always remember the fine groundwork it layed. DA:O build awesome, deep world rich in lore and history. It was enjoyable to discover it. While typing this I began wondering if replay of it lets me keep the Codex entries from previous games? Wonder if some gotta catch em all stuff should be pulled.
But yeah please retcon DA II off the franchise. Both (the alleged) good and bad aspects. Memories most people have about it are negative, does no good to see some goddamned Anders all over again.
DA:O did so many things right. Most fondly I'll always remember the fine groundwork it layed. DA:O build awesome, deep world rich in lore and history. It was enjoyable to discover it. While typing this I began wondering if replay of it lets me keep the Codex entries from previous games? Wonder if some gotta catch em all stuff should be pulled.
But yeah please retcon DA II off the franchise. Both (the alleged) good and bad aspects. Memories most people have about it are negative, does no good to see some goddamned Anders all over again.
Modifié par LTD, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:35 .
#4
Guest_FemaleMageFan_*
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 12:31
Guest_FemaleMageFan_*
Guest_FemaleMageFan_*
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I like the way dragon age 2 scrapped that ****ing mage Poking animation seriously I wad about to lose it.
#5
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 12:32
Teddie Sage
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LTD, you are free to express your opinion, but I don't agree with your disgusting behaviour at all.
Modifié par Teddie Sage, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:38 .
#6
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 12:42
Maria Caliban
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I loved the Dragon Age II crafting system. If I end up carrying around stacks of 99 elfroot in my backpack in Dragon Age III, I shall curse the lot of you.
#7
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 01:12
Odd Bet
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Pretty much agree with you.
I really enjoyed DA2's framed narrative and more personal story. It was different from most other RPGs I've played. I hope that they continue taking chances with story structure and content in DA3.
DA2 had a lot of strengths, and I trust BioWare to refine and expand those, while discarding what didn't work.
I really enjoyed DA2's framed narrative and more personal story. It was different from most other RPGs I've played. I hope that they continue taking chances with story structure and content in DA3.
DA2 had a lot of strengths, and I trust BioWare to refine and expand those, while discarding what didn't work.
#8
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 12:23
TCBC_Freak
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The truth is, you are not the minority.
Here on the forums you are a slight (maybe 48%) minority but amongst general DA fans (the people who form the bulk of the fan base but for many reason either don’t come on here, or even avoid it like the plague because it is so characteristic of the internet effect, aka most people go stupid on it) you are in the greater majority. Part of the problem is that the few who hate DA2 are very vocal about it and drowned out the folks that liked it, or at least can admit the good parts.
Every knows what DA2 lacked, strong locations, party customization and it had an ending that was “too forced.” The ending thing is even open for debate as a personal matter. I liked it personally, it felt real to the situation which you cannot and should not always be able to control, but I understand that some people didn’t because it didn’t matter which side you picked (kind of like real life honestly…) the ending was much the same. But over all DA2 was a better game. It had stronger characters who had better stories. It had comparatively more dialog (it was presented differently but there was a higher percentage for the amount of time you played of it. This is a fact, not an opinion, look it up). The combat system (while not perfect) was leaps and bounds ahead of DA:O's shuffle, shuffle, stab, or the staff poke of doom. The crafting system was vastly improved and useful as opposed to an inventory cluttering POS.
The two things it really lacked, the two things that needed fixing that every one knows about are the locations and the party customization. Both of which where the first things that the DA team pointed out when they started talking about DA3 and they said they would fix.
To the few people who hate DA2 (note I said hate, like with a passion, I have no problem with folks that didn‘t like it and are reasonable). Honestly I think they are mostly trolls, not because “any one that thinks different than me is a troll,” but because their arguments against it are simply that it isn’t Origins. That it is a different game. They are un-unified in their grievances, disorganized in their presentation and disagree with each other as often as they do to those of us who, while agreeing that DA2 wasn’t perfect but no game is, liked DA2. Most of them if you ask them, “What is it that you don’t like?” Will point to the ending (which is a taste issue and doesn‘t make the game bad, just not to your liking) and the other two issues I was willing to point out; which will be fixed (if the developers are being honest) which is also not game breaking. After those two they show themselves to be trolls, the extent of their argument is gone and it just becomes about how stupid we are for liking the game. An adult should be able to get over a few issues that are mostly opinion based anyway, and not whine like a baby that it, “Makes the whole game suck, there’s nothing good about this game, I want to burn all copies, blah, blah.”
TL;DR, I know it’s a wall of text but then again you are probably proving my point by not reading it.
Here on the forums you are a slight (maybe 48%) minority but amongst general DA fans (the people who form the bulk of the fan base but for many reason either don’t come on here, or even avoid it like the plague because it is so characteristic of the internet effect, aka most people go stupid on it) you are in the greater majority. Part of the problem is that the few who hate DA2 are very vocal about it and drowned out the folks that liked it, or at least can admit the good parts.
Every knows what DA2 lacked, strong locations, party customization and it had an ending that was “too forced.” The ending thing is even open for debate as a personal matter. I liked it personally, it felt real to the situation which you cannot and should not always be able to control, but I understand that some people didn’t because it didn’t matter which side you picked (kind of like real life honestly…) the ending was much the same. But over all DA2 was a better game. It had stronger characters who had better stories. It had comparatively more dialog (it was presented differently but there was a higher percentage for the amount of time you played of it. This is a fact, not an opinion, look it up). The combat system (while not perfect) was leaps and bounds ahead of DA:O's shuffle, shuffle, stab, or the staff poke of doom. The crafting system was vastly improved and useful as opposed to an inventory cluttering POS.
The two things it really lacked, the two things that needed fixing that every one knows about are the locations and the party customization. Both of which where the first things that the DA team pointed out when they started talking about DA3 and they said they would fix.
To the few people who hate DA2 (note I said hate, like with a passion, I have no problem with folks that didn‘t like it and are reasonable). Honestly I think they are mostly trolls, not because “any one that thinks different than me is a troll,” but because their arguments against it are simply that it isn’t Origins. That it is a different game. They are un-unified in their grievances, disorganized in their presentation and disagree with each other as often as they do to those of us who, while agreeing that DA2 wasn’t perfect but no game is, liked DA2. Most of them if you ask them, “What is it that you don’t like?” Will point to the ending (which is a taste issue and doesn‘t make the game bad, just not to your liking) and the other two issues I was willing to point out; which will be fixed (if the developers are being honest) which is also not game breaking. After those two they show themselves to be trolls, the extent of their argument is gone and it just becomes about how stupid we are for liking the game. An adult should be able to get over a few issues that are mostly opinion based anyway, and not whine like a baby that it, “Makes the whole game suck, there’s nothing good about this game, I want to burn all copies, blah, blah.”
TL;DR, I know it’s a wall of text but then again you are probably proving my point by not reading it.
#9
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 01:28
RedWulfi
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Get rid of mage staves completely...
Seriously its as if the magic comes from the staff and not the mage. If you unequip your staff you run up to the mob and start punching it. What? Cos you can't use magic without a staff?
Seriously its as if the magic comes from the staff and not the mage. If you unequip your staff you run up to the mob and start punching it. What? Cos you can't use magic without a staff?
#10
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 01:43
fchopin
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Mixed salad some of everything is not the way, we want the French salad.
#11
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 02:06
Rawgrim
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AndersIsLush wrote...
Get rid of mage staves completely...
Seriously its as if the magic comes from the staff and not the mage. If you unequip your staff you run up to the mob and start punching it. What? Cos you can't use magic without a staff?
You can`t unequip the weapons in DA2. If you do, the character is still holding a weapon, and using it. Aparantly the Maker makes it so that nobody in Krikwall should ever be unarmed, and magically gives them a weapon.
#12
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 03:16
InfinitePaths
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TCBC_Freak wrote...
The truth is, you are not the minority.
Here on the forums you are a slight (maybe 48%) minority but amongst general DA fans (the people who form the bulk of the fan base but for many reason either don’t come on here, or even avoid it like the plague because it is so characteristic of the internet effect, aka most people go stupid on it) you are in the greater majority. Part of the problem is that the few who hate DA2 are very vocal about it and drowned out the folks that liked it, or at least can admit the good parts.
Every knows what DA2 lacked, strong locations, party customization and it had an ending that was “too forced.” The ending thing is even open for debate as a personal matter. I liked it personally, it felt real to the situation which you cannot and should not always be able to control, but I understand that some people didn’t because it didn’t matter which side you picked (kind of like real life honestly…) the ending was much the same. But over all DA2 was a better game. It had stronger characters who had better stories. It had comparatively more dialog (it was presented differently but there was a higher percentage for the amount of time you played of it. This is a fact, not an opinion, look it up). The combat system (while not perfect) was leaps and bounds ahead of DA:O's shuffle, shuffle, stab, or the staff poke of doom. The crafting system was vastly improved and useful as opposed to an inventory cluttering POS.
The two things it really lacked, the two things that needed fixing that every one knows about are the locations and the party customization. Both of which where the first things that the DA team pointed out when they started talking about DA3 and they said they would fix.
To the few people who hate DA2 (note I said hate, like with a passion, I have no problem with folks that didn‘t like it and are reasonable). Honestly I think they are mostly trolls, not because “any one that thinks different than me is a troll,” but because their arguments against it are simply that it isn’t Origins. That it is a different game. They are un-unified in their grievances, disorganized in their presentation and disagree with each other as often as they do to those of us who, while agreeing that DA2 wasn’t perfect but no game is, liked DA2. Most of them if you ask them, “What is it that you don’t like?” Will point to the ending (which is a taste issue and doesn‘t make the game bad, just not to your liking) and the other two issues I was willing to point out; which will be fixed (if the developers are being honest) which is also not game breaking. After those two they show themselves to be trolls, the extent of their argument is gone and it just becomes about how stupid we are for liking the game. An adult should be able to get over a few issues that are mostly opinion based anyway, and not whine like a baby that it, “Makes the whole game suck, there’s nothing good about this game, I want to burn all copies, blah, blah.”
TL;DR, I know it’s a wall of text but then again you are probably proving my point by not reading it.
Nicely said,Dragon age 2 had stronger charathers and better combat trees and crafting.DAO had a feeling of countless choices like your choices really matter,bigger world and more content.This was only a short version, I can write a 2 page list about what sucked in DA2/DAO and what rocked in DAO/DA2.I think mending those 2 games togeather is a great idea.
#13
Posté 12 octobre 2012 - 04:03
kingjezza
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Absolutely pointless thread as the people who dislike DA2 and are vocal about it have already been labeled trolls who just wanted DAO2 blah blah!
http://www.pcgamer.c...r-poll-results/
Obviously just more noisy trolls while the huge majority who have lost the ability to communicate spend their time in the "I love Bioware" cave sitting silently waiting to appear and banish the tiny minority of trolls causing trouble.
The minority AKA the huge majority of people outside of this forum.
http://www.pcgamer.c...r-poll-results/
Obviously just more noisy trolls while the huge majority who have lost the ability to communicate spend their time in the "I love Bioware" cave sitting silently waiting to appear and banish the tiny minority of trolls causing trouble.
The minority AKA the huge majority of people outside of this forum.
#14
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 09:16
Shadow Fox
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Great more ****ing and general ****ry from DAO and 2 fanboys.
#15
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 11:47
POETICDRINK
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Dragon Age II hack and slash gameplay was awful. It's the reason many of the fans were in an uproar. The only thing I liked about Dragon Age II was some of the characters like Varric, the Saarebas, Fenris, and a couple others. The game was too fast paced and reminded me of that game Dynasty Warriors.
#16
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 01:02
Fallstar
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kingjezza wrote...
Absolutely pointless thread as the people who dislike DA2 and are vocal about it have already been labeled trolls who just wanted DAO2 blah blah!
http://www.pcgamer.c...r-poll-results/
That was an interesting graph. In before "The PC gamer audience is just a vocal minority".
People who go on about vocal minorities in relation to DA2 are sprouting rubbish. There are those who defend the game just as vigourously as those who oppose it.
Also, people seem to assume that just because there are more people who preferred DAO on these boards, that the opposite must somehow be true for people not on these boards. What even? From which twisted reality do some of these people derive their logic?
How do you know that it is just a vocal minority who preferred DAO? I mean, people always go on and on about how most people who preferred DA2 don't say anything about it. Yet it somehow doesnt enter their heads that the exact same thing applies to those who preferred DAO. The BSN doesn't have some sort of screening process where only those who preferred DAO are allowed to post. It is a sample slice of those who are passionate about DA - regardless of which game they preferred.
#17
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 01:33
SpEcIaLRyAn
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In a way I actually prefer Origins slow combat. Its alot easier for me to issues commands since enemies don't destroy me right away. If they were to mix the combat from Origins and DA2 than I would be a very happy guy. You know just make DA2 combat a bit slower and its fine.
#18
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 02:14
Blessed Silence
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I do have to agree that the runes were pretty bland. I had so many left over and only used very specific ones.
Have to disagree on the combat though. Ugh, in DA2 it was too much "anime"ish, jumping all around and not tactic orientated, at least to me. Mobs falling from thin air, and the Tactic menus were still not well done to help. I enjoyed the slow pace of DA:O better, but I guess I'm not so much a twitch gamer.
I found the skills in DA2 lacking, at least in the sense I had to take a bunch of crap skills to get the ones I wanted. Well DA:O had that too I guess. I would rather see a non attached, branching system in tiers, kind of like what EverQuest2's AA system is. A good example is from here: http://www.beetny.com/eq2aa/ If you check, such as Assassin on the left side, then Assassin tab at the top, the skills are not linked, but in Tiers. You need 10 points in the first tier to open the second, etc. That system helps, I think, in picking what you want and less skills you don't.
The story in DA2 was great until Act3. Then it hit a brick wall with a cheap ending. It still felt like GvE though, except they had names as Mages vs Templars. And don't even get me started on Meredith *sigh*
I just hope that BioWare does what so many devs have promised that they look at what people say and pay attention to it while they tweak DA3. That's all I really want, because fans can be quite vocal
Have to disagree on the combat though. Ugh, in DA2 it was too much "anime"ish, jumping all around and not tactic orientated, at least to me. Mobs falling from thin air, and the Tactic menus were still not well done to help. I enjoyed the slow pace of DA:O better, but I guess I'm not so much a twitch gamer.
I found the skills in DA2 lacking, at least in the sense I had to take a bunch of crap skills to get the ones I wanted. Well DA:O had that too I guess. I would rather see a non attached, branching system in tiers, kind of like what EverQuest2's AA system is. A good example is from here: http://www.beetny.com/eq2aa/ If you check, such as Assassin on the left side, then Assassin tab at the top, the skills are not linked, but in Tiers. You need 10 points in the first tier to open the second, etc. That system helps, I think, in picking what you want and less skills you don't.
The story in DA2 was great until Act3. Then it hit a brick wall with a cheap ending. It still felt like GvE though, except they had names as Mages vs Templars. And don't even get me started on Meredith *sigh*
I just hope that BioWare does what so many devs have promised that they look at what people say and pay attention to it while they tweak DA3. That's all I really want, because fans can be quite vocal
#19
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 02:18
Blessed Silence
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AndersIsLush wrote...
Get rid of mage staves completely...
Seriously its as if the magic comes from the staff and not the mage. If you unequip your staff you run up to the mob and start punching it. What? Cos you can't use magic without a staff?
Not to really go off topic, but that's what annoyed me in Harry Potter. No wand = no magic.
Need to watch Merlin more. He used wands (tools) then words (verbal) then just hand gestures. Magic comes from the person not the item (in most cases).
Of course, that also reminds me how I disliked archery in DA:O, especially with bows. I shot a few in my lifetime and you don't have to lean forward when you release the arrow. How does that help anyway? Doesn't make the arrow go any faster!
#20
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 03:39
Androme
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I'm trying as hard as I can, and I can't for one second come to think of anything in DA2 that was better than anything in DA:O, it's just.. argh.. There's NOTHING TO DO in DA2 than just kill 30 bandits while swinging a huge 30 meters sword around and do random quests while not being in control of what's happening around you, it's just so much worse compared to DAO.
inb4 any1 gets butthurt; everything i wrote above: IN MAII OPINNIONNNN!111!1!11
inb4 any1 gets butthurt; everything i wrote above: IN MAII OPINNIONNNN!111!1!11
Modifié par Androme, 13 octobre 2012 - 03:39 .
#22
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 03:54
ianvillan
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When Bioware made DA2 they supposedly took all the best bits of Origins and made them better.
Now how can you have a new game that will have the best of Origins and the best of DA2 when bioware believes that anything from Origins that wasn't in DA2 was not any good.
Me and some other fans on this forum have asked Bioware what they consider good features of Origins that they would consider including in the next game but we are told they cant announce anything, yet they will happily say which features of DA2 they will bring back (which is a lot).
I just dont know why Bioware can't release a blog saying which features of Origins that they enjoyed.
Now how can you have a new game that will have the best of Origins and the best of DA2 when bioware believes that anything from Origins that wasn't in DA2 was not any good.
Me and some other fans on this forum have asked Bioware what they consider good features of Origins that they would consider including in the next game but we are told they cant announce anything, yet they will happily say which features of DA2 they will bring back (which is a lot).
I just dont know why Bioware can't release a blog saying which features of Origins that they enjoyed.
#23
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 04:10
Feanor_II
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Usually DA:O's combat is much more appreciated by PC players, and DA2's by console users....... That's because each one is designed and optimized for it's best system.Cavemandiary wrote...
The Good
Combat dynamics are leaps and bounds better in DA2. I just finished DA2 and decided to play Awakening (which I hadn't previously) and it felt like a drag. DA:O combat is slow and clumbsy. In fact, the fast interactive combat of DA2 is probably one of it's best features.
As PC player I foun DA2's combat confusing, boring and stressing.
#24
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 04:54
kingjezza
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I'll second that.
The combat was the main reason I switched DA2 off and never finished it. I'm playing Origins at the moment and my rogue doesn't feel in the least bit slow to me. I also like the fact that I actually have to position my rogues if I want to back stab. Rogues just feel a whole lot more real in Origins compared to the magic awesome button rogues of DA2 which are verging on mage like for some of their skills. Plus back flips and spin kicking bottles into a fight, please just stop.
The combat was the main reason I switched DA2 off and never finished it. I'm playing Origins at the moment and my rogue doesn't feel in the least bit slow to me. I also like the fact that I actually have to position my rogues if I want to back stab. Rogues just feel a whole lot more real in Origins compared to the magic awesome button rogues of DA2 which are verging on mage like for some of their skills. Plus back flips and spin kicking bottles into a fight, please just stop.
#25
Posté 13 octobre 2012 - 05:06
kingjezza
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ianvillan wrote...
When Bioware made DA2 they supposedly took all the best bits of Origins and made them better.
Now how can you have a new game that will have the best of Origins and the best of DA2 when bioware believes that anything from Origins that wasn't in DA2 was not any good.
Me and some other fans on this forum have asked Bioware what they consider good features of Origins that they would consider including in the next game but we are told they cant announce anything, yet they will happily say which features of DA2 they will bring back (which is a lot).
I suspect you'll be waiting a long time for those answers, just like when Mike Laidlaw stated some things were removed from Origins because they were outright broken but would never actually say what was so broken it needed full on removal.
To tell the truth, Laidlaw always came across as somebody who never actually liked much about Origins. When they talk about the best bits of both, what they really mean is an improved version of DA2.
But fair enough, it's their game so they can take any direction they wish.
