431 réponses à ce sujet

[Obadiah]

Vigilant111 wrote...
...
Lessons about sacrifice? What do you make of Mordin's death? What do you make of Legion's death? What do you make of Ashley/Kaidan's death?

It makes "sacrifice" a theme of the Mass Effect Trilogy.

[TookYoCookies]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

No.

[Eclipse merc]

Mike1220 wrote...

well i guess not everyone can see the big picture. this ending has to be one of, if not the best ending in a any video game. I'm just disappointed that others can't see it like that. Everyone i talk to in real life says they loved it only on the internet do i find the haters but it's my opinion.

It's the opposite for me, everyone I kow hates it.

[Maxster_]

iakus wrote...

 No.  I play video games to be a hero and feel good about it.  Not to feel guilty over a war crime a glitchy AI makes me commit to avoid galactic annihilation.

Forced sacrifice isn't.

But then maybe I'm just too stupid to "get it"

We all are too stupid.
Let EAWare have their very small fanbase of geniuses like dreman or blueprotoss

[Reth Shepherd]

Vigilant111 wrote...
...
Lessons about sacrifice? What do you make of Mordin's death? What do you make of Legion's death? What do you make of Ashley/Kaidan's death?

Stupid, unnecessary, contrived, and wtf. The Legion I knew from ME2 would NEVER have willingly uploaded Reaper code to the Geth. Remember all of those conversations about how accepting another's path blinded you to alternatives, and that the Geth would make their OWN future? Apparently Legion forgot! (Or was corrupted; first time we met him in 3 he'd already been infected with the Reaper code, after all.) Even aside from that, the Geth are programs. So, given that he'd already uploaded the code...how exactly does "I must go to them" work? Not to mention there was literally no story reason to kill him off. Mordin's death was lead up to and the culmination of his story arc. Legion's felt like someone decided there needed to be sacrifice but couldn't figure out a meaningful way to do it. So they threw in a LOLdead.

[Dark_Caduceus]

Mike1220 wrote...

well i guess not everyone can see the big picture. this ending has to be one of, if not the best ending in a any video game. I'm just disappointed that others can't see it like that. Everyone i talk to in real life says they loved it only on the internet do i find the haters but it's my opinion.

Oh lord. The fact that there's dozens, maybe hundreds of hours of just the ending being critically torn apart on Youtube gives lie to that statement. It's one of the absolute worst endings in any medium I've ever seen.

[Nightwriter]

I am really tired of hearing that I did not "get" the ending.

[dorktainian]

www.youtube.com/watch

www.youtube.com/watch

pretty much explains everything i feel about the lame end to a brilliant franchise.



Spot on Smudboy.

[Jadebaby]

Mike1220 wrote...

A man on Youtube posted this to counter what someone said about the ending being bad.
"Then you completely missed the ending. The point of the
ending is not to make you feel like you won everything, but to make you
understand the meaning of sacrifice. Yeah, decisions in ME1 or ME2 may
not seem like a huge impact in the end, but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories. In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

I 100% agree with him. What do you guys think?

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

There is no "win" ending. You sacrifice your soul to stop the cycles, and I'm sorry but I specifically remember my Shepard saying at the end of ME2... "I'm going to win this war, and I'm not going to sacrifice the soul of our species to do it."

OOPS!

Modifié par Jade8aby88, 12 octobre 2012 - 09:08 .

[Jadebaby]

Nightwriter wrote...

I am really tired of hearing that I did not "get" the ending.

+1

[Daxamite]

The ending felt like the love child of Babylon 5 and battle star galactic a . The e c ending was an improvement but couldn't save the game from the random appearance of the catalyst and its ridiculous logic . 

[Daxamite]

Eclipse merc wrote...

Mike1220 wrote...

well i guess not everyone can see the big picture. this ending has to be one of, if not the best ending in a any video game. I'm just disappointed that others can't see it like that. Everyone i talk to in real life says they loved it only on the internet do i find the haters but it's my opinion.

It's the opposite for me, everyone I kow hates it.

Only one of my friends has played it. We both disliked the original endings. I thought the e c ending was ok, he refuses to bother with it

[Vigilant111]

PhoenixUK wrote...

The ending felt like the love child of Babylon 5 and Battlestar Galactica . The EC ending was an improvement but couldn't save the game from the random appearance of the catalyst and its ridiculous logic . 

Some people actually drew comparison between the endings of BSG and ME3, you know, the "WTF?!" element (amongst other things) which is familiar with both. However, the ending of BSG is still better than ME3's

Modifié par Vigilant111, 12 octobre 2012 - 09:21 .

[Noelemahc]

Grubas wrote...

the payoff to conrad verner storyarch is bigger than to the entire trilogy.
Ending was unsatisfying pre EC and just ok in a classic rpg- videogamey kind of way.
sorry mike

What he said.

What this game needed was a videogamey ending. What it has instead is a pretentious artsy movie ending. It's not a bad ending (in terms of quality, not morality) if taken on its own, but, unfortunately, it quite simply does not fit the hours upon hours of screentime and storylineage that preceded it. For all intents and purposes, it's a non sequitur, which Leviathan DLC managed to turn into an unimportant non sequitur at that (by implying that whatever you pick, the galaxy is still boned, either because the Reapers still live in whichever form, or because the Leviathans will rise again).


The sad part is that the leadup to the ending (aka every part of the plot that was written by the time the Beta leaked) is pretty solid, if a tad linear, and it all leads up to an entirely different conclusion than what the game ultimately culminates in. Up until Thessia, the theme of the game was "victory through impossible odds". After that it's suddenly "you can't fight fate, mud monkey, accept your station and don't try to rise above it". Give me back the Beta ending, where Javik is the Catalyst (which in it is simply code for "last person alive who the Crucible's controls would actually accept as the controller") and the colour picker is done by a dialogue battle with him to convince him whether he should press the Red button or the Blue button. At least that one was consistent with the previous two games.

[Knightly_BW]

I was partly okay with ending. After EC I think it is good.

Maybe it is because there are other things in game which makes me more uncomfortable than endings. Like whole EDI situation (you can't disagree with it about possesing a body including reaper code) or Geth and Reaper Code. Timing of events (we are touring the galaxy while Reapers are hitting heavily Earth. Earth should be all rubble long before Thessia fall). Diminishing returns for earlier games' choices (which I understand but still don't like).

I never expected Catalyst to be reasonable. Its a machine after all and wheter you like it or not, it is a perfect example of "Might makes it right". You either play by its rules and make a choice or let them continue their cycle.

As we've seen on geth situation during Legion loyalty mission, I think machines no matter how advanced they are, stuck at taking big decisions. Catalyst let Shepard make that decision as it is the only indivudal impress them since their exsitence (due building a human reaper. Reapers designed after apex race, Leviathan. Building a human reaper means a drastic change on their views). They aren't impressed with human race, just Shepard. All other humans, even TIM, just another organic to toy with.

People see destroy ending as a genocide which can be one of their problem with ending. For me it is partly a punishment long delayed (both EDI (killed 18(iirc) humans as Rogue VI, Geth stand on their metal butts and watch heretics slaughter many organics. If you don't let Legion have Reaper Code he doesn't hesitate to attack first nearby organic, namely Shepard. Also EDI feels utterly sorry for that incident). Also you can't kill something which ain't alive in the first place. No matter how much your horny pilot wants to bang that robot chick, both EDI and Geth are machines, lying, decieving and without moral values machines(also in EDI's case with cameltoe >.>).

Probably this is the main reason why I am very comfortable with endings, especially with Destroy.

[ReLoveNo]

i c the whole picture...
Harbringer & Reaper : "Shepard YOU WILL FAIL"...!!!that word had made me burn like hell...really want to defeat the reapers...and then what???!!!!
all i can see is a work of waste, all of our decision had gone to waste, and shepard had died in vain.
thats what i c...

[Nightwriter]

Asperius wrote...

I never expected Catalyst to be reasonable. Its a machine after all and wheter you like it or not, it is a perfect example of "Might makes it right". You either play by its rules and make a choice or let them continue their cycle.

No.

One of the worst problems with the ending is you don't get to call the Catalyst on its shit. People come up with all kinds of excuses for it: "Oh, it's a computer, you're not supposed to try to argue with it." "It's amoral, there's no point debating." "It's just telling it like it is, stop trying to treat it like a person."

Malarkey, all of it, I say. Humans have been arguing with computers about human values in science fiction since time immemorial. I did not get through this epic space saga just to shrug and accept the computer's bullsh*t rules just because it's a computer.

When you encounter an unreasonable intelligence, the response is not to stay silent and let its unreasonableness stand. Especially when so much is at stake.

Besides, the Catalyst is just a machine "in as much as you are just an animal."

[Armass81]

Personally I was expecting Shepard to die with ME3s end, so I wasnt enraged by it like some others.

[Knightly_BW]

Nightwriter wrote...

Asperius wrote...

I never expected Catalyst to be reasonable. Its a machine after all and wheter you like it or not, it is a perfect example of "Might makes it right". You either play by its rules and make a choice or let them continue their cycle.

No.

One of the worst problems with the ending is you don't get to call the Catalyst on its shit. People come up with all kinds of excuses for it: "Oh, it's a computer, you're not supposed to try to argue with it." "It's amoral, there's no point debating." "It's just telling it like it is, stop trying to treat it like a person."

Malarkey, all of it, I say. Humans have been arguing with computers about human values in science fiction since time immemorial. I did not get through this epic space saga just to shrug and accept the computer's bullsh*t rules just because it's a computer.

When you encounter an unreasonable intelligence, the response is not to stay silent and let its unreasonableness stand. Especially when so much is at stake.

Besides, the Catalyst is just a machine "in as much as you are just an animal."

It is more being all god like, doing what it wishes than being a machine. Let's say you disagree with it, what can you do? Yeah you can talk as much as you want but that ain't any different than talking to a wall. If it decides you are useless it can kill you out right. As you said with so much at stake, it seems more reasonable to me to play by its rules.

Is it a bad plot? Probably.

As I am not that much of a Sci Fi fan, it seems okay to me. Tho' seeing that brat all game long is annoying as hell. I, for one, at least prefer Catalyst to take form of someone I cared, like one of the dead friends... Ashley, Mordin, Thane, Anderson. Even without any talk, his appearance makes me wanna shoot that damn thing.

[Nightwriter]

Armass81 wrote...

Personally I was expecting Shepard to die with ME3s end, so I wasnt enraged by it like some others.

Yeah, after Shepard died fifty gajillion fans rushed to their computers to claim they totally saw it coming from ten thousand miles away.

I'm just sayin'. Not all of you could have seen it coming.

Just sayin'.

I mean. Especially in a game that has consistently been about options... you really expected they would force unprecedented mandatory death on the player? All fifty gajillion of you? 

Skeptical Nightwriter is skeptical.

Skeptical Nightwriter thinks maybe some people would just like to appear clever.

[Massa FX]

I 100% disagree w/OP and YouTube person.

... and if I wanted the happy ending without sacrifices, I don't deserve to roleplay Commander Shepard. Sacrifice isn't the issue, as the majority has said over and over again.

If Shep dies or lives... not the issue.

[EnvyTB075]

MGS3 did it better, that is a fact and is undeniable.

But thats not the actual issue, but people like you run with it despite being so incredibly wrong.

[Noelemahc]

Nightwriter wrote...

One of the worst problems with the ending is you don't get to call the Catalyst on its shit. People come up with all kinds of excuses for it: "Oh, it's a computer, you're not supposed to try to argue with it." "It's amoral, there's no point debating." "It's just telling it like it is, stop trying to treat it like a person."

Malarkey, all of it, I say. Humans have been arguing with computers about human values in science fiction since time immemorial. I did not get through this epic space saga just to shrug and accept the computer's bullsh*t rules just because it's a computer.

The worst part of it, you can just quote EDI's numerous monologues on human nature that she gives if you take the full-Paragon route through her doubts, and they ALL form a workable critique of how much the ending sucks.

Starting with "Moral decisions cannot be made in a vacuum. I should discuss this with my crewmates, to learn their opinions" as the biggest WTF directed at the RGB options themselves.

Or, you know, quote Iron Savior lyrics at it, they all fit nicely too.

"Iron, Iron Savior, look what you have done!
Can't you see, your assessment might be wrong?
Iron, Iron Savior, robot of the law,
End this ill-fated, devastating war!"

There's so much things that COULD HAVE BEEN done about that final dialogue instead of Shepard playing the role of the doubting customer and the Starchild pretending to be a telemarketer.

"Destroy sucks. Can I switch you off instead?" - "But wait, there's more! Two more whole options, in fact! Totally different!"

Go look it up on YouTube. That's EXACTLY how the dialogue goes in the EC. Shepard is playing "Princess or the Tiger" with three doors, one of which contains a Yahg, another - a Krogan in a fit of bloodrage, and the third - an Ardat-Yakshi in heat.

[Nightwriter]

Asperius wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Asperius wrote...

I never expected Catalyst to be reasonable. Its a machine after all and wheter you like it or not, it is a perfect example of "Might makes it right". You either play by its rules and make a choice or let them continue their cycle.

No.

One of the worst problems with the ending is you don't get to call the Catalyst on its shit. People come up with all kinds of excuses for it: "Oh, it's a computer, you're not supposed to try to argue with it." "It's amoral, there's no point debating." "It's just telling it like it is, stop trying to treat it like a person."

Malarkey, all of it, I say. Humans have been arguing with computers about human values in science fiction since time immemorial. I did not get through this epic space saga just to shrug and accept the computer's bullsh*t rules just because it's a computer.

When you encounter an unreasonable intelligence, the response is not to stay silent and let its unreasonableness stand. Especially when so much is at stake.

Besides, the Catalyst is just a machine "in as much as you are just an animal."

It is more being all god like, doing what it wishes than being a machine. Let's say you disagree with it, what can you do? Yeah you can talk as much as you want but that ain't any different than talking to a wall. If it decides you are useless it can kill you out right. As you said with so much at stake, it seems more reasonable to me to play by its rules.

Is it a bad plot? Probably.

As I am not that much of a Sci Fi fan, it seems okay to me. Tho' seeing that brat all game long is annoying as hell. I, for one, at least prefer Catalyst to take form of someone I cared, like one of the dead friends... Ashley, Mordin, Thane, Anderson. Even without any talk, his appearance makes me wanna shoot that damn thing.

Calling it a god just tries to push it further into "musn't talk back to it" territory, I think. BioWare was probably trying to present it in a goddish light, but imo it failed.

I think the "what would it accomplish?" argument is baseless because it assumes futility without even trying. There is no evidence whatsoever to suggest that the Catalyst would be unable to engage in argument. In the EC Shepard questions the Catalyst, discusses the situation with it, even presents a few arguments and receives responses/counters. It's established that this thing can be debated with; we just aren't given the power to direct that debate to the most important matters.

Though arguably, its "if fire burns, is at war?" counterargument does not give one any great excess of hope for its faculty for intelligent debate...

Also: completely agree about preferring it to take the form of a dead friend.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 12 octobre 2012 - 10:26 .