431 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Noelemahc wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

One of the worst problems with the ending is you don't get to call the Catalyst on its shit. People come up with all kinds of excuses for it: "Oh, it's a computer, you're not supposed to try to argue with it." "It's amoral, there's no point debating." "It's just telling it like it is, stop trying to treat it like a person."

Malarkey, all of it, I say. Humans have been arguing with computers about human values in science fiction since time immemorial. I did not get through this epic space saga just to shrug and accept the computer's bullsh*t rules just because it's a computer.

The worst part of it, you can just quote EDI's numerous monologues on human nature that she gives if you take the full-Paragon route through her doubts, and they ALL form a workable critique of how much the ending sucks.

Starting with "Moral decisions cannot be made in a vacuum. I should discuss this with my crewmates, to learn their opinions" as the biggest WTF directed at the RGB options themselves.

Or, you know, quote Iron Savior lyrics at it, they all fit nicely too.

"Iron, Iron Savior, look what you have done!
Can't you see, your assessment might be wrong?
Iron, Iron Savior, robot of the law,
End this ill-fated, devastating war!"

There's so much things that COULD HAVE BEEN done about that final dialogue instead of Shepard playing the role of the doubting customer and the Starchild pretending to be a telemarketer.

"Destroy sucks. Can I switch you off instead?" - "But wait, there's more! Two more whole options, in fact! Totally different!"

Go look it up on YouTube. That's EXACTLY how the dialogue goes in the EC. Shepard is playing "Princess or the Tiger" with three doors, one of which contains a Yahg, another - a Krogan in a fit of bloodrage, and the third - an Ardat-Yakshi in heat.

Wow I completely forgot EDI said that.

Its depressing that their ending could contradict their own writing that hard.

[Knightly_BW]

Hah I was thinking that myself the other day, why it should be "Destroy" option? Let's say if your vacum cleaner goes out of control because of malfunction you don't go all berserk on it, you just unplug it.

By the way removing third dialogue option and giving two stupid options or two same options even more unforgivable than ending conflicts... at least there are different writers involved (still a bad work on Editor's part).

You get either "Yes, go ahead and get all reaper on me, Legion" or "DIE!!!"
You can even disagree with EDI for claiming a robotic body with reaper code. All you can say is "test it" or "yay!"

I don't know others but as soon as I heard reaper code, memories of Collecter ship data flashed before my eyes. That damn red collecter hologram with sirens.

As I said I am not that into Sci Fi and not very techy guy, however to me it sounds like if Geth and EDI didn't destroyed along with Reapers, they will come back in another form due to fail safe program in those codes.

[Headcount]

No.

[Mathias]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

No I don't agree with that comment. With the exception of Ultima IX, I don't think there's been a video game franchise that had such a cataclysmic fall from grace as Mass Effect.


Stricly speaking, the ending to Mass Effect 3 is one of the finest examples of how much you can ruin an entire franchise in 10 minutes. Even though ME3 had some issues before the ending, the entire trilogy was superb and some even called it "The Star Wars" of our generation. But all that came to an abrupt halt towards the end. It went from the best to the absolute worst, and it's one of the most glorious and spectacular literary suicides, i think a gaming franchise has ever endured.

Nowadays whenever gamers think of really bad video game endings, ME3 is one of the first that comes to mind.

Sorry, no one thinks ME3 is a bad game because of the ending. And you have yet to say why the ending is  not a bout sacrifice.

Wow, that's hardcore denial if i've ever seen it.

Also i don't recall saying i would attempt to explain why the ending is not about sacrifice, nor did the OP ask us to.

To be fair the denial would be coming from you since ME3 being good or bad is opinion just like any other video game.  Also its bad to resort to ad hominems.

That's not denial. I only spoke the truth since the controversy surrounding the ending was well known and out of control. I also never mentioned ME3 being a good or bad game in my post.

It was a pretty good shooter, with a poorly written story.

[Cigarette Smoking Man]

Themes are of secondary importance in a character driven narrative.

Mass Effect was never about the themes. That they are or were there was done as layer to enrich a story. What Mass Effect is is a narrative where characters, their situations, and their interactions are central. You are given agency in many situations with Shepard, and while theme might be a cute way of discussing something, the context is always put into characters and situation.

That some argue satisfaction because of abstract things to think about, that's just hipster/college psyche major students who picked the major just to sit at coffee houses and talk about **** that makes them think they're smart crap. The Reaper threat isn't coming in being all "synthetics always rebelling against organics"; it's because they are killing the hell out of entire races, and have done so for lord knows how long, and want to liquidate your entire existence. That they turn people into horrible shock troops. That they can manipulate and change you just by proximity.

It's all given a personal context and a very personal reason to attack the problem.

As someone with a degree in lit, it's easy to smell bull**** coming from a mile away.

[galland]

PhoenixUK wrote...

Eclipse merc wrote...

Mike1220 wrote...

well i guess not everyone can see the big picture. this ending has to be one of, if not the best ending in a any video game. I'm just disappointed that others can't see it like that. Everyone i talk to in real life says they loved it only on the internet do i find the haters but it's my opinion.

It's the opposite for me, everyone I kow hates it.

Only one of my friends has played it. We both disliked the original endings. I thought the e c ending was ok, he refuses to bother with it


First successful refuse Ive heard of!

[ziyon conqueror]

No. I wanted to believe that Shepard could survive and Reapers die ONLY.

[GreyLycanTrope]

nope.avi

[High Kicks]

nah, brah.

[Blueprotoss]

grey_wind wrote...

Forget videogaming. It's one of the most spectacular literary suicides in any fictional medium. Ever.

I highly doubt this especially with a video game entitled ET or Superman 64 to name two examples.  If ME3 is really that bad then ME1 and ME2 would also share the same fate as ME3.

Maxster_ wrote...

ME3 is story about crushing defeat, abandoning all hope, and unconditional surrender to a insane entity's whim.
Ending is not about sacrifice, it is about necessity, appeal to insanity, and trying to end this nightmare with less horrific consequences.

Incosistent and very badly written.

To be fair if ME3 is incosistent then ME1 and ME2 would also be inconsistent.  ME was never about crushing defeat, abandoning all hope, and unconditional surrender to a insane entity's whim but I see how you're trying to create a strawman based on your personal disatifaction.

Vigilant111 wrote...

Oh, OP, how condescending of you, "BIG picture", if it is THAT big, people would have picked it up

Now responding to your original post: Yeah well, so is real life, but we are not playing real life in ME3 are we?

Lessons about sacrifice? What do you make of Mordin's death? What do you make of Legion's death? What do you make of Ashley/Kaidan's death?

Apparently a bunch of people didn't see the big picture since ME1 based on Eden Prime and Virmire or ME2 based on Horizon or with the Suicide Mission.  Ironically all 3 of those deaths are sacrafices.

Nightwriter wrote...

Yeah, after Shepard died fifty gajillion fans rushed to their computers to claim they totally saw it coming from ten thousand miles away. 

I'm just sayin'. Not all of you could have seen it coming. 

Just sayin'.

I mean. Especially in a game that has consistently been about options... you really expected they would force unprecedented mandatory death on the player? All fifty gajillion of you? 

Skeptical Nightwriter is skeptical. 
Skeptical Nightwriter thinks maybe some people would just like to appear clever. [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/bandit.png[/smilie]

Its odd to hear that someone didn't expect Shepard dieing at the end ME3 because its like not expecting Neo to die at the end of Matrix Revolutions, Bill in Kill Bill Vol 2, the terminator in every Terminator movie, or John Coffey in the Green Mile.  There's no need for a small group of keyboard warriors to get their underwear in a knot when something doesn't go their way just like what naturally happens in llife.

A Bethesda Fan wrote...

I disagree 2000%

If thats really the case then you should be mad at every Bioware and Bethesda game based on the amount of sacrafices that occur in their respective series.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 12 octobre 2012 - 03:36 .

[clarkusdarkus]

Gonna have to give you a big fat NO on that one

[dsl08002]

NO

NO

[M0keys]

Like we needed to know what sacrifice was like when we saw Mordin and Legion make the most heroic sacrifices in the entire trilogy.

[dreman9999]

M0keys wrote...

Like we needed to know what sacrifice was like when we saw Mordin and Legion make the most heroic sacrifices in the entire trilogy.

One thing to see it...Another thing to do it.

[Blueprotoss]

Mdoggy1214 wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

To be fair the denial would be coming from you since ME3 being good or bad is opinion just like any other video game.  Also its bad to resort to ad hominems.

That's not denial. I only spoke the truth since the controversy surrounding the ending was well known and out of control. I also never mentioned ME3 being a good or bad game in my post.

It was a pretty good shooter, with a poorly written story.

How is that denial when I'm not even using ad hominems and I'm not criticize ME3 for the faults of ME1 or ME2.

Its "easy" to say that its bad writing based on your dislike of ME3 but you shouldn't forget that ME3 was shaped by ME1 and ME2.  If you want to play the blame game then you'll have to be mad at ME1, ME2, and ME3.

[dreman9999]

Nightwriter wrote...

Noelemahc wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

One of the worst problems with the ending is you don't get to call the Catalyst on its shit. People come up with all kinds of excuses for it: "Oh, it's a computer, you're not supposed to try to argue with it." "It's amoral, there's no point debating." "It's just telling it like it is, stop trying to treat it like a person."

Malarkey, all of it, I say. Humans have been arguing with computers about human values in science fiction since time immemorial. I did not get through this epic space saga just to shrug and accept the computer's bullsh*t rules just because it's a computer.

The worst part of it, you can just quote EDI's numerous monologues on human nature that she gives if you take the full-Paragon route through her doubts, and they ALL form a workable critique of how much the ending sucks.

Starting with "Moral decisions cannot be made in a vacuum. I should discuss this with my crewmates, to learn their opinions" as the biggest WTF directed at the RGB options themselves.

Or, you know, quote Iron Savior lyrics at it, they all fit nicely too.

"Iron, Iron Savior, look what you have done!
Can't you see, your assessment might be wrong?
Iron, Iron Savior, robot of the law,
End this ill-fated, devastating war!"

There's so much things that COULD HAVE BEEN done about that final dialogue instead of Shepard playing the role of the doubting customer and the Starchild pretending to be a telemarketer.

"Destroy sucks. Can I switch you off instead?" - "But wait, there's more! Two more whole options, in fact! Totally different!"

Go look it up on YouTube. That's EXACTLY how the dialogue goes in the EC. Shepard is playing "Princess or the Tiger" with three doors, one of which contains a Yahg, another - a Krogan in a fit of bloodrage, and the third - an Ardat-Yakshi in heat.

Wow I completely forgot EDI said that.

Its depressing that their ending could contradict their own writing that hard.

Nightwriter wrote...

One of the worst problems with the ending is you don't get to call the Catalyst on its shit. People come up with all kinds of excuses for it: "Oh, it's a computer, you're not supposed to try to argue with it." "It's amoral, there's no point debating." "It's just telling it like it is, stop trying to treat it like a person."

Malarkey, all of it, I say. Humans have been arguing with computers about human values in science fiction since time immemorial. I did not get through this epic space saga just to shrug and accept the computer's bullsh*t rules just because it's a computer. 

@Nightwriter The issue here is not that it a computer....The issue here its a shackled AI...The make the difference because it will blindly do what they are told.

Noelemahc wrote...
The worst part of it, you can just quote EDI's numerous monologues on human nature that she gives if you take the full-Paragon route through her doubts, and they ALL form a workable critique of how much the ending sucks.

Starting with "Moral decisions cannot be made in a vacuum. I should discuss this with my crewmates, to learn their opinions" as the biggest WTF directed at the RGB options themselves.

The thing here is that  you have no choice but to make the desicion on your own and you're no fully doing this in a vacuum. The factyou don't like any of the choices on hand means you considering what oher may feel about the choices on hand.
All the choice are made so you don't like them...But they all still lead to the servival andrestoraion of the races and galexy.

[moater boat]

Mike1220 wrote...

...but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories...

Don't you understand that one of the major complaints about the ending is it DISREGARDS everything you did? This analysis is just dumb.

[dreman9999]

Asperius wrote...

Hah I was thinking that myself the other day, why it should be "Destroy" option? Let's say if your vacum cleaner goes out of control because of malfunction you don't go all berserk on it, you just unplug it.

By the way removing third dialogue option and giving two stupid options or two same options even more unforgivable than ending conflicts... at least there are different writers involved (still a bad work on Editor's part).

You get either "Yes, go ahead and get all reaper on me, Legion" or "DIE!!!"
You can even disagree with EDI for claiming a robotic body with reaper code. All you can say is "test it" or "yay!"

I don't know others but as soon as I heard reaper code, memories of Collecter ship data flashed before my eyes. That damn red collecter hologram with sirens.

As I said I am not that into Sci Fi and not very techy guy, however to me it sounds like if Geth and EDI didn't destroyed along with Reapers, they will come back in another form due to fail safe program in those codes.

If a persons memories are gone...That person is technily dead. Edi and the geths memories are gone. If you retore them, the race will be alive agien but the indivisuals they were will be gone.

[dreman9999]

moater boat wrote...

Mike1220 wrote...

...but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories...

Don't you understand that one of the major complaints about the ending is it DISREGARDS everything you did? This analysis is just dumb.

The ending don't disregurad everythin gyou did...That just a complaint from people who don't like destroy. ME has a heavy theme of end vs means like the ending.

It you don't like to brain wash everyone or destory the geth...Just pick control. And don't say it will be a totalisium...It up to your shepard how everything is done. Shepard does not have to be involved with the government of organics.

[AchesOfDoom]

25% I agree

[string3r]

I understood exactly what the ending meant, and I'm all for that.

The problem was that it was horribly executed.

[Ar7emis]

decisions in ME1 or ME2 may
not seem like a huge impact in the end, but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories

And reminds me of how they all culminated into a big ball of bathos... All for nothing, if you will.

“[The presence of the Rachni] has huge consequences in Mass Effect 3. Even just in the final battle with the Reapers.”

Bull. ****.

Modifié par Ar7emis, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:01 .

[Dubozz]

No.

[Allasae]

No.