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Found this opinion of the ending and I 100% agree.


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#326
moater boat

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dreman9999 wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Mike1220 wrote...

...but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories...


Don't you understand that one of the major complaints about the ending is it DISREGARDS everything you did? This analysis is just dumb.

The ending don't disregurad everythin gyou did...That just a complaint from people who don't like destroy. ME has a heavy theme of end vs means like the ending.

It you don't like to brain wash everyone or destory the geth...Just pick control. And don't say it will be a totalisium...It up to your shepard how everything is done. Shepard does not have to be involved with the government of organics.

Did you save the council or not?
Doesn't Matter
Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
Doesn't Matter
Did you save the Rachni queen?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
Doesn't matter
Did you kill Wrex?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
Doesn't matter
Who survived the Suicide mission?
Doesn't matter
Did you keep the collector base?
Doesn't matter

Don't ****** on my boots and tell me it's raining.

The
Decisions
Don't
MATTER!

#327
XqctaX

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Blueprotoss wrote...

redcarpet26 wrote...

Nope. All it did was disappoint. I wanted a possible happy ending for shep, EDI, the Geth, and everyone else who didn't die previously, just like at the end of ME2. Call me stupid or infantile, but it's what I wanted and I didn't get it so it pissed me off. Even dragon age origins had the possiblity of genuine survival (shep-breath scene doesn't count).

To be fair characters will die in ME3 and if you want to reach certain goals then death is unavoidable like Mordin with the Genophage or Legion with the Geth.  Also ME was never about happiness even when the Reapers are coming couldnt be stopped like Skynet in the Terminator series or Winter in the Game of Thrones.

l To be fair the theme of the games was A sense of HOPE. overcomming things by working together.

then they spend every damn second in me3 trying to kill your hope.


Edit NO AND FU*****G NO!   i almost forgot :P
and thanks to op for calling me stupid for not enjoying the ending. as if  "not getting it" is why the ending is bad

Modifié par XqctaX, 12 octobre 2012 - 07:30 .


#328
Humanoid_Typhoon

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Jade8aby88 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I am really tired of hearing that I did not "get" the ending.


+1

Truth, in its purest form.

#329
erc1971

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Mike1220 wrote...

well i guess not everyone can see the big picture. this ending has to be one of, if not the best ending in a any video game. I'm just disappointed that others can't see it like that. Everyone i talk to in real life says they loved it only on the internet do i find the haters but it's my opinion.


We are going to have to disagree.  I find the ME3 ending to be hands down the most disappointing thing ever in the history of entertainment since the dawn of mankind.  The Star Wars prequels are works of art compared to the ME3 ending.

Eric

#330
zqrahll

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The point of the ending is to finish ruining a game series, murdering all previous trust for Bioware.

#331
Verit

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dreman9999 wrote...
2."- wiping out all synthetic life in the entire galaxy to kill the Reapers"
The truth is that no one will hate you for doing that and it's a casualty of war.

Tell that to the synthetics who believed in you.

dreman9999 wrote...
That's up to you're Shepard. You're Shepards AI does not have to do that and can just let all life make desisions on there own.

How would Shepard know what the AI is going to do, he/she is already dead since for some dumb reason Shepard needs to be vaporized to copy his/her memories. And the "Control" ending doesn't leave any doubt over the fact that the Reapers are not going to let life make its own decisions.

dreman9999 wrote...
Then don't pick synthesis.

Yeah I should just pick an ending that fits my Shepard. Oh wait...

dreman9999 wrote...
The only time sacrifice is meaningless is if whatyou sacraficing for is less then you think it is or it dies or falls in ill fate desipite your sacrifice..
Nothing in the epologue points to that. And only sysnthesis has issues with that.

None of the endings have a foundation for a future my Shepard would have wanted. So yes, that makes them meaningless to me.

#332
ninemil

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AlexPorto111 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes...That is exactly the point. Any one that says no just wants a rainbows happy ending.


I completely agree.


They should've shown EDI fried in the Destroy ending, with a distraught Joker losing it as she goes. Disappointed the EC continued to side-step that aspect of the single-minded, 'finish the fight!' Shepard. Destroy ending is way too politely convenient about the individuals it sacrifices.

Legion was more worthy of survival than anyone Shepard could have been, imo. Just because they aren't the one with a love interest to widow, doesn't make them or the rest of their race any less worthy.

#333
wright1978

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I am really tired of hearing that I did not "get" the ending.


+1

Truth, in its purest form.


Yep it wasn't deep. It was just extremely poor.

#334
humes spork

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It makes sense considering the themes of sacrifice throughout the game, and trilogy at large. The very first game, and trilogy, was billed in no small way on hard decisions and having to make sacrifices -- "many choices lie ahead, none of them easy", if anyone remembers that from the ME1 trailer (as well you ought, it's the trailer that plays in ME1's main screen).

In ME1's sadistic choice, both Kaiden and Ashley are willing to sacrifice themselves for the mission. You have to choose one or the other. In the end, you have to sacrifice either a large portion of the Fifth fleet, or the Destiny Ascension and the Council.

In ME2's suicide mission, your team is willing to lay down their lives for the mission. You have to choose who is in the hot seat, and depending on those choices characters die, all the way down to the Normandy crew if you choose to shore up loose ends before launching the mission. Hell, Kal'Reegar is willing to make the self-sacrifice as well unless Shepard interrupts and forces him to stay in cover.

ME3 is all about self-sacrifice. Mordin (or "not Mordin") sacrifices themselves to cure the genophage, or Shepard either sacrifices the salarian in the hot seat or sacrifices the Krogan race. Legion (or "not Legion") sacrifices themselves to give true sentience to the Geth, and/or Shepard either sacrifices the Geth or the Quarians. Thane, or Kirrahe, sacrifices himself to save the Salarian councilor, and Shepard has the option of sacrificing the VS to take down Udina. Shepard rallies the Turians on Tuchanka to be ready to sacrifice themselves for the mission, and Lt. Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb.

Through the entire trilogy Shepard orders people to make the sacrifices, or sacrifices others to achieve the final end (stopping the Reapers). ME3's final choice is Shepard's turn to make the sacrifice, mediated by Shepard's (and by extension, the player's) views organic/synthetic conflict that's existed since ME1 -- and yes, it absolutely has, no matter how much you want to deny it the theme of organic/synthetic conflict extends well beyond the geth.

That's what it is. ME3's final choice is Shepard's turn to follow in the footsteps of Ashley/Kaiden, Kirrahe (potentially), the Council or Fifth fleet casualties, suicide mission casualties, Mordin and Legion (regardless of choice), Thane, Victus, and everyone else.

To hammer the point home, I'll draw a parallel to Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan. The theme of that film as regards Kirk, is that Kirk has never truly faced death and cheated his way through life to avoid it. Kirk's career is paved with the corpses of red shirts, but he's never had to face death personally, or lost anyone who was truly close to him. Kirk denies the reality of the "no-win" situation, down to cheating on the Kobayahi Maru test (and having colossally missed the point of it in the process).

And in the end, due to Kirk's own impetuousness and hubris (it was Kirk's decision to not follow regulations and raise the Enterprise's shields, which allowed Khan to launch a surprise attack), he's put in that no-win situation he fought his entire career to deny and avoid, and it costs him the life of his closest friend. Despite the fact Khan was already beaten, the Reliant adrift and the Genesis device about to detonate (keeping it out of the wrong hands), the Enterprise was going to be destroyed in the detonation, and Spock sacrifices himself to fix the Enterprise's warp drive ("the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one").

In the end, it was Kirk's turn to face a genuine no-win situation, and through it he finally gained a visceral, first-person perspective of that, the meaning of sacrifice, and the personal stakes involved in major command decisions. And, that relates back to ME3 in the sense that throughout the trilogy, Shepard (and by extension, the player) was complacent giving orders and demanding sacrifices of others without ever truly making a real self-sacrifice, and the trilogy's climax was Shepard's turn.

#335
Killer3000ad

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Mike1220 wrote...

A man on Youtube posted this to counter what someone said about the ending being bad.
"Then you completely missed the ending. The point of the
ending is not to make you feel like you won everything, but to make you
understand the meaning of sacrifice. Yeah, decisions in ME1 or ME2 may
not seem like a huge impact in the end, but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories. In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

I 100% agree with him. What do you guys think?




The only thing the ending made me feel like was puking in disgust.

#336
Seival

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moater boat wrote...

Did you save the council or not?
Doesn't Matter
Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
Doesn't Matter
Did you save the Rachni queen?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
Doesn't matter
Did you kill Wrex?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
Doesn't matter
Who survived the Suicide mission?
Doesn't matter
Did you keep the collector base?
Doesn't matter

Did you save the council or not?
If you didn't save them, they will be dead, so you will not see the same council in ME2 or ME3.

Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
If you suggested Anderson, he will be human consul in ME2. And there is nothing bad in returning to military life in ME3.

Did you save the Rachni queen?
If you killed the queen in ME1, then you will not see Asari saved by Rachni in ME2, or the same queen in ME3.

Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
If you didn't save Shiala and colonists, you will not see them in ME2, and will not take them as war asset in ME3.

Did you kill Wrex?
If you killed Wrex in ME1, then you will never see him again.

Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
If you saved Ashley in ME1, you will never see Kaiden again (and vice versa).

Who survived the Suicide mission?
If someone died in suicide mission, you will not see her/him again. You can see "Legion backup", but it's not the Legion.

Did you keep the collector base?
If you kept Collector base, then EMS requirement for Control is reduced. If you destroyed Collector base, then EMS requirement for Destroy is reduced.


...The decisions matter. And don't even try to convince me otherwise.


...The endings are fine. L2respect the writers' work.

Modifié par Seival, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:52 .


#337
Humanoid_Typhoon

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Seival wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Did you save the council or not?
Doesn't Matter
Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
Doesn't Matter
Did you save the Rachni queen?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
Doesn't matter
Did you kill Wrex?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
Doesn't matter
Who survived the Suicide mission?
Doesn't matter
Did you keep the collector base?
Doesn't matter

Did you save the council or not?
If you didn't save them, they will be dead, so you will not see the same council in ME2 or ME3.

Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
If you suggested Anderson, he will be human consul in ME2. And there is nothing bad in returning to military life in ME3.

Did you save the Rachni queen?
If you killed the queen in ME1, then you will not see Asari saved by Rachni in ME2, or the same queen in ME3.

Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
If you didn't save Shiala and colonists, you will not see them in ME2, and will not take them as war asset in ME3.

Did you kill Wrex?
If you killed Wrex in ME1, then you will never see him again.

Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
If you saved Ashley in ME1, you will never see Kaiden (again and vice versa).

Who survived the Suicide mission?
If someone died in suicide mission, you will not see her/him again. You can see "Legion backup", but it's not the Legion.

Did you keep the collector base?
If you kept Collector base, then EMS requirement for Control is reduced. If you destroyed Collector base, then EMS requirement for Destroy is reduced.


...The decisions matter. And don't even try to convince me otherwise.


...The endings are fine. L2respect the writers' work.

Everything you pointed out didn't actually change anything except whether or not they were there or not, in which case someone else replaces them and has almost all of the same dialogue, and EMS means nothing, so don't try and act like that counts.


Also FYI, killing someone generally means you won't see them again.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:53 .


#338
DoomsdayDevice

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What do you think?


The ending is the most genius ending in the history of gaming because IT.

Modifié par DoomsdayDevice, 12 octobre 2012 - 08:54 .


#339
Sauron001

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Seival wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Did you save the council or not?
Doesn't Matter
Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
Doesn't Matter
Did you save the Rachni queen?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
Doesn't matter
Did you kill Wrex?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
Doesn't matter
Who survived the Suicide mission?
Doesn't matter
Did you keep the collector base?
Doesn't matter

Did you save the council or not?
If you didn't save them, they will be dead, so you will not see the same council in ME2 or ME3.

Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
If you suggested Anderson, he will be human consul in ME2. And there is nothing bad in returning to military life in ME3.

Did you save the Rachni queen?
If you killed the queen in ME1, then you will not see Asari saved by Rachni in ME2, or the same queen in ME3.

Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
If you didn't save Shiala and colonists, you will not see them in ME2, and will not take them as war asset in ME3.

Did you kill Wrex?
If you killed Wrex in ME1, then you will never see him again.

Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
If you saved Ashley in ME1, you will never see Kaiden (again and vice versa).

Who survived the Suicide mission?
If someone died in suicide mission, you will not see her/him again. You can see "Legion backup", but it's not the Legion.

Did you keep the collector base?
If you kept Collector base, then EMS requirement for Control is reduced. If you destroyed Collector base, then EMS requirement for Destroy is reduced.


...The decisions matter. And don't even try to convince me otherwise.


...The endings are fine. L2respect the writers' work.


None of those decisions affected the outcome.....only some of the choices in ME2 really made a difference and Wrex thats about it.

Endings are fine if Indoctrination otherwise No Shepard would not listen to a Starchild who is in the form of a  kid Shepard is having nightmares off.

#340
o Ventus

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Mike1220 wrote...

this ending has to be one of, if not the best ending in a any video game. I'm just disappointed that others can't see it like that.


It's weird how people are disagreeing with you.

#341
lordmorbus

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NO! 

#342
Bob Garbage

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It is not the ending that sucks. It is that we were forced, for the most part, into Bioware/EA's story of Shepard rather than playing a game were we had formed our own. The amount of auto-dialogue and plots that turn out one way no matter what you do is, for anyone who had been playing the series for years, a let down. It it the exact opposite to what any real Mass Effect fan wanted and is truly confusing for me to be honest. The game is decent and I hope they keep releasing SP DLC, I enjoy the gameplay enough that I'll buy it and not ****, but there's no getting around the fact that the core fans were not considered when writing the story to ME3, they clearly wanted it to be dumbed down and accessible to people who could not for the life of them put down Halo 3 long enough 6 years ago to try the first Mass Effect.

Modifié par Bob Garbage, 12 octobre 2012 - 09:04 .


#343
AlanC9

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moater boat wrote...
The
Decisions
Don't
MATTER!


What would count as "mattering" for you?

#344
Jadebaby

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Mike1220 wrote...

A man on Youtube posted this to counter what someone said about the ending being bad.
"Then you completely missed the ending. The point of the
ending is not to make you feel like you won everything, but to make you
understand the meaning of sacrifice. Yeah, decisions in ME1 or ME2 may
not seem like a huge impact in the end, but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories. In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

I 100% agree with him. What do you guys think?


Image IPB

#345
Seival

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Sauron001 wrote...

Seival wrote...

moater boat wrote...

Did you save the council or not?
Doesn't Matter
Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
Doesn't Matter
Did you save the Rachni queen?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
Doesn't matter
Did you kill Wrex?
Doesn't matter
Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
Doesn't matter
Who survived the Suicide mission?
Doesn't matter
Did you keep the collector base?
Doesn't matter

Did you save the council or not?
If you didn't save them, they will be dead, so you will not see the same council in ME2 or ME3.

Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
If you suggested Anderson, he will be human consul in ME2. And there is nothing bad in returning to military life in ME3.

Did you save the Rachni queen?
If you killed the queen in ME1, then you will not see Asari saved by Rachni in ME2, or the same queen in ME3.

Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
If you didn't save Shiala and colonists, you will not see them in ME2, and will not take them as war asset in ME3.

Did you kill Wrex?
If you killed Wrex in ME1, then you will never see him again.

Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
If you saved Ashley in ME1, you will never see Kaiden (again and vice versa).

Who survived the Suicide mission?
If someone died in suicide mission, you will not see her/him again. You can see "Legion backup", but it's not the Legion.

Did you keep the collector base?
If you kept Collector base, then EMS requirement for Control is reduced. If you destroyed Collector base, then EMS requirement for Destroy is reduced.


...The decisions matter. And don't even try to convince me otherwise.


...The endings are fine. L2respect the writers' work.


None of those decisions affected the outcome.....only some of the choices in ME2 really made a difference and Wrex thats about it.

Endings are fine if Indoctrination otherwise No Shepard would not listen to a Starchild who is in the form of a  kid Shepard is having nightmares off.

The main thing which affects the outcome is your Shepard's personality... And that was intended by the writers.

A mind-control was attempted and failed during the conversation with TIM... And that was intended by the writers.

There is no "Starchild", there is the Catalyst's vision. Conversation with the Catalyst is mental, but indoctrination wasn't involved in that conversation. The Catalyst has no reasons to lie, because it could just left Shepard to die to avoid any risk. Instead, the Catalyst admitted its mistakes and offered Shepard to find the new solution together... And that was intended by the writers.

There are three ways to stop the Reapers (Control, Synthesis, Destory), and one way to lose (Refusal)... And that was intended by the writers.

The entire ending concept is really deep, instructive, and philosophical. As any true sci-fi story ending concept should be... And that was intended by the writers.



...The endings are fine. And for some people the ending concept is even perfect.
...Yes, there are some people who dislike the endings, but it's just their own opinion.

Modifié par Seival, 12 octobre 2012 - 09:20 .


#346
Bob Garbage

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AlanC9 wrote...

moater boat wrote...
The
Decisions
Don't
MATTER!


What would count as "mattering" for you?


Having some bearing on the outcome of the game we've put hundreds of hours into, for the purpose of affecting the end result? ME3 happens the way it happens, no matter what your Shepard did, aside from a few very small details. That is about the worst outcome for a ME game possible.

#347
LeinadSemrig

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humes spork wrote...

It makes sense considering the themes of sacrifice throughout the game, and trilogy at large. The very first game, and trilogy, was billed in no small way on hard decisions and having to make sacrifices -- "many choices lie ahead, none of them easy", if anyone remembers that from the ME1 trailer (as well you ought, it's the trailer that plays in ME1's main screen).

In ME1's sadistic choice, both Kaiden and Ashley are willing to sacrifice themselves for the mission. You have to choose one or the other. In the end, you have to sacrifice either a large portion of the Fifth fleet, or the Destiny Ascension and the Council.

In ME2's suicide mission, your team is willing to lay down their lives for the mission. You have to choose who is in the hot seat, and depending on those choices characters die, all the way down to the Normandy crew if you choose to shore up loose ends before launching the mission. Hell, Kal'Reegar is willing to make the self-sacrifice as well unless Shepard interrupts and forces him to stay in cover.

ME3 is all about self-sacrifice. Mordin (or "not Mordin") sacrifices themselves to cure the genophage, or Shepard either sacrifices the salarian in the hot seat or sacrifices the Krogan race. Legion (or "not Legion") sacrifices themselves to give true sentience to the Geth, and/or Shepard either sacrifices the Geth or the Quarians. Thane, or Kirrahe, sacrifices himself to save the Salarian councilor, and Shepard has the option of sacrificing the VS to take down Udina. Shepard rallies the Turians on Tuchanka to be ready to sacrifice themselves for the mission, and Lt. Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb.

Through the entire trilogy Shepard orders people to make the sacrifices, or sacrifices others to achieve the final end (stopping the Reapers). ME3's final choice is Shepard's turn to make the sacrifice, mediated by Shepard's (and by extension, the player's) views organic/synthetic conflict that's existed since ME1 -- and yes, it absolutely has, no matter how much you want to deny it the theme of organic/synthetic conflict extends well beyond the geth.

That's what it is. ME3's final choice is Shepard's turn to follow in the footsteps of Ashley/Kaiden, Kirrahe (potentially), the Council or Fifth fleet casualties, suicide mission casualties, Mordin and Legion (regardless of choice), Thane, Victus, and everyone else.

To hammer the point home, I'll draw a parallel to Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan. The theme of that film as regards Kirk, is that Kirk has never truly faced death and cheated his way through life to avoid it. Kirk's career is paved with the corpses of red shirts, but he's never had to face death personally, or lost anyone who was truly close to him. Kirk denies the reality of the "no-win" situation, down to cheating on the Kobayahi Maru test (and having colossally missed the point of it in the process).

And in the end, due to Kirk's own impetuousness and hubris (it was Kirk's decision to not follow regulations and raise the Enterprise's shields, which allowed Khan to launch a surprise attack), he's put in that no-win situation he fought his entire career to deny and avoid, and it costs him the life of his closest friend. Despite the fact Khan was already beaten, the Reliant adrift and the Genesis device about to detonate (keeping it out of the wrong hands), the Enterprise was going to be destroyed in the detonation, and Spock sacrifices himself to fix the Enterprise's warp drive ("the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one").

In the end, it was Kirk's turn to face a genuine no-win situation, and through it he finally gained a visceral, first-person perspective of that, the meaning of sacrifice, and the personal stakes involved in major command decisions. And, that relates back to ME3 in the sense that throughout the trilogy, Shepard (and by extension, the player) was complacent giving orders and demanding sacrifices of others without ever truly making a real self-sacrifice, and the trilogy's climax was Shepard's turn.


I like you're point, but I disagree that the premise of all 3 games was sacrifice.  I think the real theme was Choice.  You got to choose, and your choices had deep impacts on the universe. Although many choices did involve sacrifice, the fact that you were given the choice is what mattered.  That is why I fell in love with Mass Effect in the first place.  It was immersive and rewarding with the sheer ammount of control you were given.  I was not a player in a game, I was Commander Shepard; Alliance Navy, Council Spectre, and I would succeed where all others had failed.

  Although Sacrifice did exist in all three titles the prevailing emotion through the series was hope.  Hope that somehow you could bring Saren to justice, hope that you could head off the reaper invasion, and hope that you could somehow find a way to defeat the reapers.  While it was understood that sacrifice would be necessary to achieve these goals, the sacrifice always felt like it had meaning and the reasons the sacrifice was necessary was always well explained.

When you create a trilogy like this, the emotion that the game instills in it's player and the theme that was presented at the beggining are vital to continuing the narrative. The last entry in the series felt to me like a jarring departure from what ME had come to mean to me.  I liked the game, but it was obvious from even the demo that Bioware was changing direction.  In order to support the "Action" template they were gunning for, they stripped away alot of the dialogue and decision making I had come to love.  The dialogue wheel seemed bare and empty, most of the time I only had two choices and the exposition dialogue was largely reduced.  People still talked alot, but they were conversations in which I had limited input.  Instead of being in control, I was being taken along for the ride.  This would not have bothered me in any other game series, but in ME I had come to expect a certain degree of player-generated input.

As far as the emotion of Hope goes, ME3 was so dark and depressing that hope was the only emotion I could draw from to stay invested.  I played the whole game with a sense of desperation, wanting to see how it would be possible for me to succeed against such impossible power.  I was totally immersed by ME1 and 2, but the dream sequences and the haunted Shepard in ME3 felt alien to me.  My reactions in the first two games were similar to the ones Shepard exhibited and when Shepard did not show a reaction, I subconsciously ascribed my personnal reaction to my character.  I was Shepard, but ME3 changed Shepard into someone I did not recognize and had difficulty empathizing with.

Then the ending.  I was expecting multiple etremely different endings.  Ones where my choices from the previous titles had profound effects on the galaxy and I owuld get to see these play out.  When the star child presented me with my 3 options I was a little taken aback.  Especially since (Pre-EC and Post-EC) the logic it used felt flawed and the explanations for why the machine would work the way it did were not up to the level I had come to expect from the series.  I was expecting an epic finale, not "would you rather die from Blue electricution, Green disinegration, or maybe die from a Red explosion."  The effects on the galaxy at large were not lost on me, but what I found myself asking was "Why?  What did I do wrong?"  I expected Shepards sacrifice would be a choice, not that the only choice would be the method by which I died.

In the end, I had to take destroy since it was the only ending that didn't look like a huge mistake to me.  Creating a Super-AI, even one imprinted with Shepard's conscious, felt incredibly dangerous as we had just been presented with the "absolute truth" that AI's will always turn on their masters.  I remember thinking how ridiculous this self-defeating arguemnt seemed.  Then synthesis which I immediately rejected as a form of Eugenics.  Poorly explained, it seemed to me that I was being told that the only way for peace was for everyone to be the same.  I could go on, but I'm being too long-winded.

It seems to me that your Star-trek analogy is flawed.  If Wrath of Kahn had been the last movie in the series then maybe I would agree with you.  However, The producers actually approached Leonard Nimoy as they were filming the final scenes in the engine room and asked him point blank to put his hand on McCoy and say "something"  I can't find the exact quote right now but you can find in Nimoy's "I am Spock."  They told him they wanted him to give them an out, something they could work with to re-nig on the sacrifice.  Nimoy hmself came up with the "remember"  line without fully understanding what they were asking for.

This was not truly a "No-Win Scenario"  Spock sacrificed himself, but the Enterprise "won" and although Kirk lost his closest friend, he cheated death again, coming out on top.  I think your analogy would be stronger if you compared Spock to Shepard instead of Kirk.  To call Shepards decisions complacent seems wrong, as it is obvious he keenly feels the sacrifices of each and every soldier he was forced to send to their deaths. Forcing the player to deal with the sacrifice of Shpeard was handled poorly in my mind since I didn't really see the need for him to die in any of the endings as they were presented.  Heck if you had high enough war assets, the game almost made it look like you could have won convenitonally in the atack on earth Star Wars-esque cutscene.

#348
AlanC9

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Bob Garbage wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...
What would count as "mattering" for you?


Having some bearing on the outcome of the game we've put hundreds of hours into, for the purpose of affecting the end result? ME3 happens the way it happens, no matter what your Shepard did, aside from a few very small details. That is about the worst outcome for a ME game possible.


You mean, like the way ME1's ending takes no notice of anything that happened before except your P/R score? Or the way getting an NPC killed on the SM gets you 15 seconds of death cutscene, and nothing more? OK, you can screw up the SM so bad that you get Shep kiled, but that takes a ton of work. And if that sort of thing counts then ME3 gets to count the low-EMS paths.

Or are you just talking about lots of cutscenes showing, say, surviving ME2 squadmates fighting, and stuff like that? The ROI's pretty bad on doing those, but I can see why they'd be nice to have.

#349
3DandBeyond

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Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Jade8aby88 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

I am really tired of hearing that I did not "get" the ending.


+1

Truth, in its purest form.


The problem is someone wanted them to believe the endings are intellectual and they want to believe that so it proves they are smart.  We aren't because we don't get it.  However, I think a great many of us get the ending far more than others think because we see it as pseudo-intellectual.

#350
wunsleh

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Adding my.......no