431 réponses à ce sujet

[Davik Kang]

humes spork wrote...

It makes sense considering the themes of sacrifice throughout the game, and trilogy at large. The very first game, and trilogy, was billed in no small way on hard decisions and having to make sacrifices -- "many choices lie ahead, none of them easy", if anyone remembers that from the ME1 trailer (as well you ought, it's the trailer that plays in ME1's main screen).

In ME1's sadistic choice, both Kaiden and Ashley are willing to sacrifice themselves for the mission. You have to choose one or the other. In the end, you have to sacrifice either a large portion of the Fifth fleet, or the Destiny Ascension and the Council.

In ME2's suicide mission, your team is willing to lay down their lives for the mission. You have to choose who is in the hot seat, and depending on those choices characters die, all the way down to the Normandy crew if you choose to shore up loose ends before launching the mission. Hell, Kal'Reegar is willing to make the self-sacrifice as well unless Shepard interrupts and forces him to stay in cover.

ME3 is all about self-sacrifice. Mordin (or "not Mordin") sacrifices themselves to cure the genophage, or Shepard either sacrifices the salarian in the hot seat or sacrifices the Krogan race. Legion (or "not Legion") sacrifices themselves to give true sentience to the Geth, and/or Shepard either sacrifices the Geth or the Quarians. Thane, or Kirrahe, sacrifices himself to save the Salarian councilor, and Shepard has the option of sacrificing the VS to take down Udina. Shepard rallies the Turians on Tuchanka to be ready to sacrifice themselves for the mission, and Lt. Victus sacrifices himself to stop the bomb.

Through the entire trilogy Shepard orders people to make the sacrifices, or sacrifices others to achieve the final end (stopping the Reapers). ME3's final choice is Shepard's turn to make the sacrifice, mediated by Shepard's (and by extension, the player's) views organic/synthetic conflict that's existed since ME1 -- and yes, it absolutely has, no matter how much you want to deny it the theme of organic/synthetic conflict extends well beyond the geth.

That's what it is. ME3's final choice is Shepard's turn to follow in the footsteps of Ashley/Kaiden, Kirrahe (potentially), the Council or Fifth fleet casualties, suicide mission casualties, Mordin and Legion (regardless of choice), Thane, Victus, and everyone else.

To hammer the point home, I'll draw a parallel to Star Trek II: the Wrath of Khan. The theme of that film as regards Kirk, is that Kirk has never truly faced death and cheated his way through life to avoid it. Kirk's career is paved with the corpses of red shirts, but he's never had to face death personally, or lost anyone who was truly close to him. Kirk denies the reality of the "no-win" situation, down to cheating on the Kobayahi Maru test (and having colossally missed the point of it in the process).

And in the end, due to Kirk's own impetuousness and hubris (it was Kirk's decision to not follow regulations and raise the Enterprise's shields, which allowed Khan to launch a surprise attack), he's put in that no-win situation he fought his entire career to deny and avoid, and it costs him the life of his closest friend. Despite the fact Khan was already beaten, the Reliant adrift and the Genesis device about to detonate (keeping it out of the wrong hands), the Enterprise was going to be destroyed in the detonation, and Spock sacrifices himself to fix the Enterprise's warp drive ("the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one").

In the end, it was Kirk's turn to face a genuine no-win situation, and through it he finally gained a visceral, first-person perspective of that, the meaning of sacrifice, and the personal stakes involved in major command decisions. And, that relates back to ME3 in the sense that throughout the trilogy, Shepard (and by extension, the player) was complacent giving orders and demanding sacrifices of others without ever truly making a real self-sacrifice, and the trilogy's climax was Shepard's turn.

My faith in humanity is greatly rekindled by posts like this.  Thank you good sir.

[Blueprotoss]

Bob Garbage wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

moater boat wrote...
The
Decisions
Don't
MATTER!

What would count as "mattering" for you?

Having some bearing on the outcome of the game we've put hundreds of hours into, for the purpose of affecting the end result? ME3 happens the way it happens, no matter what your Shepard did, aside from a few very small details. That is about the worst outcome for a ME game possible.

To be fair the outcomes in ME1 and ME2 weren't that great.  Also you don't judge one game alone in series because its just petty and childish.  Its like someone saying that Halo 4 is bad since they poured hundreds of hours by playing Halo: CE hrough Halo: Reach.

AlanC9 wrote...

You mean, like the way ME1's ending takes no notice of anything that happened before except your P/R score? Or the way getting an NPC killed on the SM gets you 15 seconds of death cutscene, and nothing more? OK, you can screw up the SM so bad that you get Shep kiled, but that takes a ton of work. And if that sort of thing counts then ME3 gets to count the low-EMS paths.

Or are you just talking about lots of cutscenes showing, say, surviving ME2 squadmates fighting, and stuff like that? The ROI's pretty bad on doing those, but I can see why they'd be nice to have.

This works.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:19 .

[Blueprotoss]

RogueBot wrote...

The "sacrifices" were too contrived to have any impact on me emotionally. So, we can destroy the Reapers, but in order to do that, the Geth have to die, too? Why, exactly? We can survive, but only if we kill the Geth? Why exactly do we have to be disintegrated in order to do synthesis? I know they made up "story" reasons for this garbage, but it's still very contrived and bad storytelling.

Also, "sacrifice" is a worn out theme in storytelling IMO, so it resonates even less with me for that reason.

To be fair most of this could be said about every Bioware game and its very odd that some people are upset with more emotion in ME3.

o Ventus wrote...

Devil Mingy wrote...

I have one question, and I send sincere apologies if this was already answered and I missed it.

Let's say you play as a Shepard who killed off the Geth, doesn't see EDI as anything more than a mechanism, and has an EMS of over 3100.

What is the sacrifice in Destroy?

Nothing at all.

If thats the case then nobody would be upset with the death of EDI and the Geth because of the Reaper tech in them.

[hukbum]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Its sad to see that more and more people are disliking the ignorance of some people puttting fingers in their ears to avoid the truth that choices do matter and were far from useless.

Did choice matter?
Yes. Somehow. I don't know.
Does it feel like choice matter?
For me? No. Play 5hours multiplayer and it feels like they were no choice needed at any point. Play 10hours multiplayer and nothing you did 2games before matters. Blue, green, red - everything is the same in the end.

Is this ignorance? Or do I just feel like nothing matters?

If YOU feel like there was choice and it matters, this may work for YOU. You can run arround, calling me an idiot or liar or something else. The truth is, I feel like it doesn't matter. When I replayed ME1 there where so many things, where I've been sitting here thinking "Ah ... what's the point?". I have my 6k bonus from multiplayer. Didn't change anything. Green, red ,blue ... what's the point? Choice didn't matter, or change anything for me anymore. The end is the same.
Choice worked for 2.9 games. In the end - it didn't matter what I've done.

Does this explain why people think "nothing matters" or are you just to ignorant to see it?

[The Spamming Troll]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Bob Garbage wrote...

AlanC9 wrote...

moater boat wrote...
The
Decisions
Don't
MATTER!

What would count as "mattering" for you?

Having some bearing on the outcome of the game we've put hundreds of hours into, for the purpose of affecting the end result? ME3 happens the way it happens, no matter what your Shepard did, aside from a few very small details. That is about the worst outcome for a ME game possible.

To be fair the outcomes in ME1 and ME2 weren't that great.  Also you don't judge one game alone in series because its just petty and childish.  Its like someone saying that Halo 4 is bad since they poured hundreds of hours by playing Halo: CE hrough Halo: Reach.

AlanC9 wrote...

You mean, like the way ME1's ending takes no notice of anything that happened before except your P/R score? Or the way getting an NPC killed on the SM gets you 15 seconds of death cutscene, and nothing more? OK, you can screw up the SM so bad that you get Shep kiled, but that takes a ton of work. And if that sort of thing counts then ME3 gets to count the low-EMS paths.

Or are you just talking about lots of cutscenes showing, say, surviving ME2 squadmates fighting, and stuff like that? The ROI's pretty bad on doing those, but I can see why they'd be nice to have.

This works.

halo was never advertised to show consequences. that analogy is completely weak. but its not like im expecting most of your opinions to be very strong in fact.

im suprised you didnt use "ad homanim" in this response.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:49 .

[Robhuzz]

It's quite impressive how some people can see something that's obviously a load of crap and still see something completely different, and even convince themselves that it's actually beautiful.

[Blueprotoss]

hukbum wrote...

Blueprotoss wrote...

Its sad to see that more and more people are disliking the ignorance of some people puttting fingers in their ears to avoid the truth that choices do matter and were far from useless.

Did choice matter?
Yes. Somehow. I don't know.
Does it feel like choice matter?
For me? No. Play 5hours multiplayer and it feels like they were no choice needed at any point. Play 10hours multiplayer and nothing you did 2games before matters. Blue, green, red - everything is the same in the end.

Is this ignorance? Or do I just feel like nothing matters?

If YOU feel like there was choice and it matters, this may work for YOU. You can run arround, calling me an idiot or liar or something else. The truth is, I feel like it doesn't matter. When I replayed ME1 there where so many things, where I've been sitting here thinking "Ah ... what's the point?". I have my 6k bonus from multiplayer. Didn't change anything. Green, red ,blue ... what's the point? Choice didn't matter, or change anything for me anymore. The end is the same.
Choice worked for 2.9 games. In the end - it didn't matter what I've done.

Does this explain why people think "nothing matters" or are you just to ignorant to see it?

Everyone can have an opinion but whether you choose to agree or disagree is that ME3 didn't remove choice just like what ME1 and ME2.  Its pathetic that you're only focusing on the MP here even when thats anothe choice and you don't need to play the MP to begin with if you don't want to like in most games.  Its also ironic when you say "nothing matters" when you're here, which means that it does "matter".

[Blueprotoss]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

halo was never advertised to show consequences. that analogy is completely weak. but its not like im expecting most of your opinions to be very strong in fact.

Its ironic to here this since Halo does focus on the consequences on the linear story of the Master Chief just like in a lot of video games focus on the main character.  Its also ironic that you're still deflecting facts with opinion.

The Spamming Troll wrote...

im suprised you didnt use "ad homanim" in this response.

I see you aren't a fan of logic like how your name implies that.

[iloveexplosives]

Robhuzz wrote...

It's quite impressive how some people can see something that's obviously a load of crap and still see something completely different, and even convince themselves that it's actually beautiful.

i think that you forget what a opinion is because you say it is crap does not make you right no matter how many people agree with you

Modifié par iloveexplosives, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:03 .

[Blueprotoss]

Robhuzz wrote...

It's quite impressive how some people can see something that's obviously a load of crap and still see something completely different, and even convince themselves that it's actually beautiful.

The Internt is full of hate and like in real life most of the hate is actually BS.

iloveexplosives wrote...

i think that you forget what a opinion is because you say it is crap does not make you right no matter howmany people agree with you

Agreed because there is always to sides to a coin and sadly hate like that is nothing new to the Internet.

Modifié par Blueprotoss, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:05 .

[iloveexplosives]

Robhuzz wrote...

It's quite impressive how some people can see something that's obviously a load of crap and still see something completely different, and even convince themselves that it's actually beautiful.

now this is crap (kidding just my opinion)

[hukbum]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Everyone can have an opinion but whether you choose to agree or disagree is that ME3 didn't remove choice just like what ME1 and ME2.  Its pathetic that you're only focusing on the MP here even when thats anothe choice and you don't need to play the MP to begin with if you don't want to like in most games.  Its also ironic when you say "nothing matters" when you're here, which means that it does "matter".

So, MP did change the ending? Because, yes I choose to play to see if it changes something. It didn't. It just underlines the feeling that nothing matters. Again, it FEELs like nothing matters. It didn't change anything. Red, green, blue, refuse.

You're like the guy running around here screaming "but it's about sacrafice! CAN'T YOU SEE IT?".
Nope, I can't. Because I'm stuck in lala-land with the blueboy, trying to figure out what the hell he's talking about.

You're just screaming "BUT CHOICE DID MATTER! CAN'T YOU SEE IT?"
Nope, I can't. Because they're never designed to change anything in the end. During the game, yes. In the end, no. And this is supposed to be Sheps last journey, so the end is/was important for me somehow. The end didn't work, 'cause I'm stuck lala-land. This leaves an empty feeling about "choice" and "matter".

So tell me, did choice matter or change something for me in the end?
Or are you just not capable to see where a diffrent opinion might come from? Because you're calling me pathetic, and saying it is "ironic" that I'm here.

[Humanoid_Typhoon]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...

Seival wrote...

Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
If you suggested Anderson, he will be human consul in ME2. And there is nothing bad in returning to military life in ME3.

Did you save the Rachni queen?
If you killed the queen in ME1, then you will not see Asari saved by Rachni in ME2, or the same queen in ME3.

Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
If you didn't save Shiala and colonists, you will not see them in ME2, and will not take them as war asset in ME3.

Did you kill Wrex?
If you killed Wrex in ME1, then you will never see him again.

Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
If you saved Ashley in ME1, you will never see Kaiden (again and vice versa).

Who survived the Suicide mission?
If someone died in suicide mission, you will not see her/him again. You can see "Legion backup", but it's not the Legion.

Did you keep the collector base?
If you kept Collector base, then EMS requirement for Control is reduced. If you destroyed Collector base, then EMS requirement for Destroy is reduced.


...The decisions matter. And don't even try to convince me otherwise.


...The endings are fine. L2respect the writers' work.

Everything you pointed out didn't actually change anything except whether or not they were there or not, in which case someone else replaces them and has almost all of the same dialogue, and EMS means nothing, so don't try and act like that counts.


Also FYI, killing someone generally means you won't see them again.

Its sad to see that more and more people are disliking the ignorance of some people puttting fingers in their ears to avoid the truth that choices do matter and were far from useless.  Btw choice was always in the player's hands even when all of them were written by Bioware.

Ignorance is one thing, but blatant denial is a completely different matter, literally everything you pointed out ended up changing like one or two lines of dialogue and literally every example you gave was simply replaced by a carbon copy that filled the exact same role, killed the rachni queen? Here have a new one. Killed Wrex? Here a Wreav. Killed the counsil? Here have a carbon copy with nearly the exact same lines. Someone died in the suicide mission? Well, they didn't matter anyway lets pretend they didn't exist. Tali died? Shes got a replacement. Legion died? He has a replacement. Grunt died? Replacement.

It isn't a consequence if whatever you thought you changed happens anyway in nearly the exact same way.

Modifié par Humanoid_Typhoon, 13 octobre 2012 - 07:33 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

This is Shepard's last journey. They scream "It's about sacrifice!" But what if I don't want it to be about sacrifice? If it's all about sacrifice, then I don't have a choice so choice doesn't matter then.

They could change the ending dialog to something very simple:

Kid: wake up.
S: I'm awake who the hell are you, and where the hell am I?
Kid: You've reached the end of the game. I'm the Catalyst, and this is the Citadel. I know nothing makes any sense. Don't hate me. I didn't write this.
S: I need to use the crucible to destroy the reapers. Can you tell me how?
K: Yeah. Do you have a candy bar?
S: I would have if Harbinger didn't hit me with that beam and melt it.
K: I told him not to do that. I'll kill him for that. It's be eons since I had one. (you know that big reaper "swimming" by? it explodes) Well, you tried anyway.
S: So what is all this crap?
K: That one over there in blue? You can control the reapers, but you electrocute yourself and die. The one in the middle? You and everyone join the reapers just by you a swan dive into a green death beam and dying. The one on the right you shoot a plasma conduit and destroy the reapers, the tube explodes, and you have a good chance of dying.
S: Beautiful. This is just beautiful. What are my chances of living?
K: (Checks EMS) Well you did a pretty good job playing the game so if you shoot the tube I'd estimate your odds at about 99.9999% chance of taking a breath under a pile of rubble.
S: That's it? That's my best chance?
K: Hey, don't blame me, that's the best ending they wrote for it. If you don't like any of them you can tell me to shove it, you'll give your best speech of the game, but you'll condemn the galaxy to death by slushy. So are you ready?
S: Ready.

(ramps go up)

Casey wanted to keep the conversation "high level". Well this is about as high level as it gets. It explains nothing.

Modifié par sH0tgUn jUliA, 13 octobre 2012 - 07:39 .

[Davik Kang]

Humanoid_Typhoon wrote...
Ignorance is one thing, but blatant denial is a completely different matter, literally everything you pointed out ended up changing like one or two lines of dialogue and literally every example you gave was simply replaced by a carbon copy that filled the exact same role, killed the rachni queen? Here have a new one. Killed Wrex? Here a Wreav. Killed the counsil? Here have a carbon copy with nearly the exact same lines. Someone died in the suicide mission? Well, they didn't matter anyway lets pretend they didn't exist. Tali died? Shes got a replacement. Legion died? He has a replacement. Grunt died? Replacement.

It isn't a consequence if whatever you thought you changed happens anyway in nearly the exact same way.

To be fair, the points you're making aren't really relevant to what they're saying.  This will go round in circles if things don't change.  If you don't think it matters whether Wrex died or not, then ok.  Personally I think it matters quite a lot whether my squadmate died.  The fact that the Krogans become united under someone else is necessary for the ME2 story.  It's practical.  You want a radically different world based on each big choice made in the ME series, but how could this possibly be achieved?  What are the alternatives to what we got?

There was a thread here asking about alternatives but very few players actually came up with viable alternatives.  There are some good ones, admittedly, but the choices you are citing would involve making multiple versions of ME3 for each player's set of choices, meaning the game for each player would have been tiny, because the overall amount of content would still have to have been the same.

[DrGunjah]

Davik Kang wrote...
To be fair, the points you're making aren't really relevant to what they're saying.  This will go round in circles if things don't change.  If you don't think it matters whether Wrex died or not, then ok.  Personally I think it matters quite a lot whether my squadmate died.  The fact that the Krogans become united under someone else is necessary for the ME2 story.  It's practical.  You want a radically different world based on each big choice made in the ME series, but how could this possibly be achieved?  What are the alternatives to what we got?

What makes choices interesting are the consequences.
No consequences means that your choices are pointless.
Of course, if you kill wrex, he is dead - that's the short-term consequence.
Though much more interesting is the long-term consequence, especially in a trilogy that allows you to import your old savegames...

[iloveexplosives]

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

This is Shepard's last journey. They scream "It's about sacrifice!" But what if I don't want it to be about sacrifice? If it's all about sacrifice, then I don't have a choice so choice doesn't matter then.

They could change the ending dialog to something very simple:

Kid: wake up.
S: I'm awake who the hell are you, and where the hell am I?
Kid: You've reached the end of the game. I'm the Catalyst, and this is the Citadel. I know nothing makes any sense. Don't hate me. I didn't write this.
S: I need to use the crucible to destroy the reapers. Can you tell me how?
K: Yeah. Do you have a candy bar?
S: I would have if Harbinger didn't hit me with that beam and melt it.
K: I told him not to do that. I'll kill him for that. It's be eons since I had one. (you know that big reaper "swimming" by? it explodes) Well, you tried anyway.
S: So what is all this crap?
K: That one over there in blue? You can control the reapers, but you electrocute yourself and die. The one in the middle? You and everyone join the reapers just by you a swan dive into a green death beam and dying. The one on the right you shoot a plasma conduit and destroy the reapers, the tube explodes, and you have a good chance of dying.
S: Beautiful. This is just beautiful. What are my chances of living?
K: (Checks EMS) Well you did a pretty good job playing the game so if you shoot the tube I'd estimate your odds at about 99.9999% chance of taking a breath under a pile of rubble.
S: That's it? That's my best chance?
K: Hey, don't blame me, that's the best ending they wrote for it. If you don't like any of them you can tell me to shove it, you'll give your best speech of the game, but you'll condemn the galaxy to death by slushy. So are you ready?
S: Ready.

(ramps go up)

Casey wanted to keep the conversation "high level". Well this is about as high level as it gets. It explains nothing.

ya know a lot of people like to dumb down the endings rediculusly to justify thier hatred of it and ask why others cant see it like they do. im gonna use this logic on s few other things to see how exacty this works:

Football(USA)
-22 men in tight pants jumping and grabing each other and runing after a ball(sounds a little homosexual)
note i have nothing agenst them personely
-people act like thier team winning or loising is a excuse to riot after super bowl
Football(soccer in USA)
-everyone runs around for 2-3 hours no one scores and millions of fans insist that you dont understand 
- after World Cup everyone acts like they have the right to riot if their team won or lost(kinda like USA and football)

Twilight( movie that seems to be popular everyware)
-kinda like soccer and football except they have better actors 
-screws up mytholagy essential to main caricters backstory(vampires)
-ignores that main chars. are in a abusive relationship(t Bella and Edward's relationship meets all fifteen criteria set by the National Domestic Violence Hotline for being in an abusive relationship)

note that this was intended to show how redicules this type of argument and logic is and was not intended to offend any specific person or persons the quote above was intended as only a example.

[Atherus]

Blueprotoss wrote...

Hindsight is 20/20 and I would to hear you say its easy to create the last arc of a trilogy with over 65,000 without DLC being involved.  You should look at the facts rather then using a strawman even when you created a glass house that was easily demolished.

Sorry, but because of my bad english, I don´t really know what you wanted to tell me.
65,000 what?
What strawman? That they worked on the ending very late they said themself in one of their interviews, don´t know what one it was, but it was one of those you could see, when you had their iphone app. Seen it on youtube later on.

And well, every game of them that I played at least worked like that in some way. So it really shocked me when after the scene I thought was the endingsequence and I would see how my decisions in the series would give me one of their 16 advertised endings, this thing popped up right into my face talked about red green blue and should choose.

And the only thing I said is in short  "they could have done that better, because they did so often in the past".

And what glass house? And who demolished it?

would be very kind of you to enlighten me, and that´s in no way ironic or sarcastic or whatever, I just really want to understand what you wanted to tell me 

[Davik Kang]

DrGunjah wrote...

Davik Kang wrote...
To be fair, the points you're making aren't really relevant to what they're saying.  This will go round in circles if things don't change.  If you don't think it matters whether Wrex died or not, then ok.  Personally I think it matters quite a lot whether my squadmate died.  The fact that the Krogans become united under someone else is necessary for the ME2 story.  It's practical.  You want a radically different world based on each big choice made in the ME series, but how could this possibly be achieved?  What are the alternatives to what we got?

What makes choices interesting are the consequences.
No consequences means that your choices are pointless.
Of course, if you kill wrex, he is dead - that's the short-term consequence.
Though much more interesting is the long-term consequence, especially in a trilogy that allows you to import your old savegames...

Dude it's kind of obvious that I already know this from my post that you quoted.  At the end, which you even quoted yourself, I said: what are the alternatives?  How can you have all these decisions making drastic consequences without reducing the sequels to tiny sub-stories?  There can only be so much game on the discs.  They aren't going to make 300 hours of content for your game.  If every choice makes the game radically different, then every possible version becomes shorter and shorter.  Is this viable?  Is this what you want?

Modifié par Davik Kang, 13 octobre 2012 - 09:15 .

[sH0tgUn jUliA]

iloveexplosives wrote...

sH0tgUn jUliA wrote...

This is Shepard's last journey. They scream "It's about sacrifice!" But what if I don't want it to be about sacrifice? If it's all about sacrifice, then I don't have a choice so choice doesn't matter then.

They could change the ending dialog to something very simple:

Kid: wake up.
S: I'm awake who the hell are you, and where the hell am I?
Kid: You've reached the end of the game. I'm the Catalyst, and this is the Citadel. I know nothing makes any sense. Don't hate me. I didn't write this.
S: I need to use the crucible to destroy the reapers. Can you tell me how?
K: Yeah. Do you have a candy bar?
S: I would have if Harbinger didn't hit me with that beam and melt it.
K: I told him not to do that. I'll kill him for that. It's be eons since I had one. (you know that big reaper "swimming" by? it explodes) Well, you tried anyway.
S: So what is all this crap?
K: That one over there in blue? You can control the reapers, but you electrocute yourself and die. The one in the middle? You and everyone join the reapers just by you a swan dive into a green death beam and dying. The one on the right you shoot a plasma conduit and destroy the reapers, the tube explodes, and you have a good chance of dying.
S: Beautiful. This is just beautiful. What are my chances of living?
K: (Checks EMS) Well you did a pretty good job playing the game so if you shoot the tube I'd estimate your odds at about 99.9999% chance of taking a breath under a pile of rubble.
S: That's it? That's my best chance?
K: Hey, don't blame me, that's the best ending they wrote for it. If you don't like any of them you can tell me to shove it, you'll give your best speech of the game, but you'll condemn the galaxy to death by slushy. So are you ready?
S: Ready.

(ramps go up)

Casey wanted to keep the conversation "high level". Well this is about as high level as it gets. It explains nothing.

ya know a lot of people like to dumb down the endings rediculusly to justify thier hatred of it and ask why others cant see it like they do. im gonna use this logic on s few other things to see how exacty this works:

Football(USA)
-22 men in tight pants jumping and grabing each other and runing after a ball(sounds a little homosexual)
note i have nothing agenst them personely
-people act like thier team winning or loising is a excuse to riot after super bowl
Football(soccer in USA)
-everyone runs around for 2-3 hours no one scores and millions of fans insist that you dont understand 
- after World Cup everyone acts like they have the right to riot if their team won or lost(kinda like USA and football)

Twilight( movie that seems to be popular everyware)
-kinda like soccer and football except they have better actors 
-screws up mytholagy essential to main caricters backstory(vampires)
-ignores that main chars. are in a abusive relationship(t Bella and Edward's relationship meets all fifteen criteria set by the National Domestic Violence Hotline for being in an abusive relationship)

note that this was intended to show how redicules this type of argument and logic is and was not intended to offend any specific person or persons the quote above was intended as only a example.

Sorry my humor is so 1970s and 80s. I used to see skits like that on the tele all the time. Probably isn't considered funny anymore, and is most likely considered offensive now by some people so I'll just leave and go about my business for the day.

[jakal66]

Some endings people seem to want are even childish to a degree, and yes some others would be impossible to add in just one game.I still believe a lotta people here wanted and eding like COD MW3....to feel they actually defeated the bad guy in classic way...

To add something, we never had that many choices in the first place...you were given the illusion of those choices but the braches were very few actually.

I think people would have been happier had they shown a sequence with the assests really affecting the outcome and of course most people would have enjoyed a "shep lives"( a clear one, not the one you get with high ems) ending...

I do believe this though,and may I add I am not so pissed at the ending well, perhaps just at destroy for being the one without real closusre thanks to the shep lives final sequence or easter egg or whatever, when you make endings too difficult to undestand in the first go you might have bad consequences...

I agree with sacrifice but they should have given just two options...paragon: he sacrifices himself for the galaxy sort of like control or synthesis but with a different twist perhaps...and renegade he survives but at a high cost, that's what I thought was gonna be the approach...boy was I wrong...hahahaha

Modifié par jakal66, 13 octobre 2012 - 09:27 .

[jakal66]

dp sory:o

Modifié par jakal66, 13 octobre 2012 - 09:26 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Blueprotoss wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

halo was never advertised to show consequences. that analogy is completely weak. but its not like im expecting most of your opinions to be very strong in fact.

Its ironic to here this since Halo does focus on the consequences on the linear story of the Master Chief just like in a lot of video games focus on the main character.  Its also ironic that you're still deflecting facts with opinion.

The Spamming Troll wrote...

im suprised you didnt use "ad homanim" in this response.

I see you aren't a fan of logic like how your name implies that.

are you telling me i should be uploading my halo save file into halo4?

......i bet alot of your posts look exactly like this. i mean, what im saying couldnt be any simpler to understand, and easily agreed with. but your all like "your not using logic" and "opinons =/= fact." for real, what the heck are you talking about?!

im just gonna bash my head into my desk instead.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 13 octobre 2012 - 09:52 .

[moater boat]

Seival wrote...

moater boat wrote...

snip

Did you save the council or not?
If you didn't save them, they will be dead, so you will not see the same council in ME2 or ME3.

Did you suggest Udina or Anderson?
If you suggested Anderson, he will be human consul in ME2. And there is nothing bad in returning to military life in ME3.

Did you save the Rachni queen?
If you killed the queen in ME1, then you will not see Asari saved by Rachni in ME2, or the same queen in ME3.

Did you save Feros or wipe them out?
If you didn't save Shiala and colonists, you will not see them in ME2, and will not take them as war asset in ME3.

Did you kill Wrex?
If you killed Wrex in ME1, then you will never see him again.

Did you save Ashley or Kaiden?
If you saved Ashley in ME1, you will never see Kaiden again (and vice versa).

Who survived the Suicide mission?
If someone died in suicide mission, you will not see her/him again. You can see "Legion backup", but it's not the Legion.

Did you keep the collector base?
If you kept Collector base, then EMS requirement for Control is reduced. If you destroyed Collector base, then EMS requirement for Destroy is reduced.


...The decisions matter. And don't even try to convince me otherwise.


...The endings are fine. L2respect the writers' work.

Don't even try and convince you otherwise? Afraid of being proven wrong?

I'm sorry, but I expect consequences larger than "You don't see them again" If that is good enough for you, well fine, but some of us expect major decisions to have major consequences. What's a major consequence? Well here is good rule of thumb, if playing multiplayer for an hour has a greater effect than the decision in question, then it isn't a major consequence. The fact of the matter is that these decisions have a negligible impact on the outcome of the war. I respect writers' work if it is good. This is NOT good writing.