431 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Mr Massakka wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes...That is exactly the point. Any one that says no just wants a rainbows happy ending.

No...

I just wanted an ending that's not 1-out-of-3 pre-defined and introduced by a ghost child with flawed logic. I don't really care how sad it is.

Then you point is that it's not about what the ending means.It's just about what you want.... The problem is...BW started ME's advertizement on this notion..



You were never promised a happy ending.

I don't see where you are coming from exactly.

I said my problems are...
- the ending doesn't reflect anything that you have done in the trilogy
- you get a pre-defined ending that everyone gets, only with different details
- it's introduced by a ghost child with flawed reasoning

That it's sad and full of sacrifice is actually the only thing I liked about it.

The ending does reflect the themes of the series.

The themes are :
Morality of ends vs means

The morality of advancement

The morality of control vs freedom

And the issues of organic vs synthetic.
The ending covered all of that.
The fact that you have to choose is ends vs means
Synthesis is an issue of advancement and control vs freedom
The catalyst, reaper and destory are organic vs synthetic issues and means vs ends

Control is ends vs means and the morality of advancement.

Added the catalyst is just a machine doing waht it's programed to do. The creaters made it flawed.

[hukbum]

dreman9999 wrote...

Your issue is wih Shepards fate. You can let beings be as they want in control but the means you die as a human. You can live in destory, but that means sacrificing a race in high ems. That gernerally means the theme in the end is sacrific..

If you read "or" for "and", you may be right

[Fades56]

dreman9999 wrote...

Fades56 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

A youtube user wrote...

In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

Not in the game I've played ...  maybe he's got a diffrent copy?


Edit: Fixed the quote.

So in the end of ME3, everyone died or did not rebuild the galexy and live happy because of Shepards sacrific?

Your kind of implying Shep had a way out, no sacrifice in the end just choosing the way you want to die, DAO had an Ok version of how a hero could sacrifice themselves for the betterment of everyone else, this only gives you different choices as to how you want to die.

Don'tbring DAO into this. We don't even know the results of the actions of the ending yet. For all we know it just means living long enoughto have something worse happen. It just a happy ending for now.

K just meant they actually implemented a better use of choosing a Hero's sacrifice, letting someone else take the sacrifice or making a deal with a witch, kind of challenges your morals there and you know what gonna happen, here I know that Shep lives in HIgh Ems destroy, buit really was that made clear that you live by anything before you make the choice, nope just that you manage to finally get rid of the reapers by shooting through our own allies, but yeah just all suicide from the choices we are given and how you want to die, just my opinion.

[dreman9999]

blueumi wrote...

AlexPorto111 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes...That is exactly the point. Any one that says no just wants a rainbows happy ending.

I completely agree.

shep has died in mass effect 2 and before mass effect 3 i thought the hero would die

the ending makes no sense and is both an insult and disrespectful to gaming as a medium 
remember casey hudson had the gaul to say  to video gamey way to insult games and those people who enjoy them for what they are

when i see a movie I watch for a different reason then why I play video games they are not one and the same which is why movies about games most of the time suck and why movie based games are so bad to play

That's not a proper argument for Shepard not to die in the ended of ME or make a hard sacrific.

[Mike1220]

@Bester76 I accept your apology. I meant no disrespect to others who hate the endings I was just stating my opinion. To the person who said video games should always be about winning the in end I strongly disagree. Just cause it's not a movie doesn't mean it can't end like one. I kinda get bored of all the endings where everything is well and good without any sort of collateral damage.

[dreman9999]

Fades56 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fades56 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

A youtube user wrote...

In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

Not in the game I've played ...  maybe he's got a diffrent copy?


Edit: Fixed the quote.

So in the end of ME3, everyone died or did not rebuild the galexy and live happy because of Shepards sacrific?

Your kind of implying Shep had a way out, no sacrifice in the end just choosing the way you want to die, DAO had an Ok version of how a hero could sacrifice themselves for the betterment of everyone else, this only gives you different choices as to how you want to die.

Don'tbring DAO into this. We don't even know the results of the actions of the ending yet. For all we know it just means living long enoughto have something worse happen. It just a happy ending for now.

K just meant they actually implemented a better use of choosing a Hero's sacrifice, letting someone else take the sacrifice or making a deal with a witch, kind of challenges your morals there and you know what gonna happen, here I know that Shep lives in HIgh Ems destroy, buit really was that made clear that you live by anything before you make the choice, nope just that you manage to finally get rid of the reapers by shooting through our own allies, but yeah just all suicide from the choices we are given and how you want to die, just my opinion.

Destroy high ems destroy has all synthetic life make the sacrific while your Shepard lives. And it matter not if it was made clear.

[palician]

[quote]Bester76 wrote...

[quote]Mike1220 wrote...

The salient point, is that people understand the endings - we just don't like them. If you do, great.

[/quote]
This

[dreman9999]

wymm666 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

wymm666 wrote...

AlexPorto111 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes...That is exactly the point. Any one that says no just wants a rainbows happy ending.

I completely agree.

Sure, why not, convince youselves all that a stupendously bad ending was actually actually done with those exact intentions. Why not. But on the flip side, why not a good ending for the sake of you know, CHOICE?

The orgianl ending have it problem but the new ending make this clear as day. The issue peoplehave with the ending is that they don't want to comrimise...In the end no mater what you choose at Hihg ems, outside of refuse, the races of the galexy sevive and rebuild...Which was your goal. The issue here is what you gave up for their servival. That makes it a bitter sweet ending. It has sad parts, it has happier parts. 

And you choice does matter on the issue of the fate of the galexy, you issue here is the fate of Shepard.

No, when something like this happens, the "people" arent the ones with the problems. I was fully expecting that Shep would die in the end, but the lack of a alternative is mind boggling. Considering the numbers of plot holes, the complete lack of a possiblity that would ensure shep lives on, albeit a rainbow ending, is mind boggling.

But you do have an alternative. Shepard lives in high ems destroy. You can't discount that.

[dreman9999]

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Your issue is wih Shepards fate. You can let beings be as they want in control but the means you die as a human. You can live in destory, but that means sacrificing a race in high ems. That gernerally means the theme in the end is sacrific..

If you read "or" for "and", you may be right

Your point? Your not being clear.

[palician]

drayfish wrote...

Mike1220 wrot...

@drayfish thanks. I respect the people who don't like it but Im just voicing my opinion and wanted to see if anyone thought like I did and not be bashed for it lol

 My only issue is when people presume that those who hate the ending 'did not understand it' or 'wanted ice cream and ponies'.

This

[dreman9999]

drayfish wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Yes...That is exactly the point. Any one that says no just wants a rainbows happy ending.

This is a ludicrously unhelpful and unjustified oversimplification.  If you have to proffer such a cartoonish vision of opinions contrary to your own it does not suggest much for your own analysis.

Personally, I was revolted by the ending on an emotional, intellectual and ideological basis, but I am genuinely glad to hear that you enjoyed it OP.

But that's basilcy it. Most people just want Shepard to live and kill the reapers with no comprimises. You can't denie that people who hate the ending just want this.

Modifié par dreman9999, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:40 .

[dreman9999]

drayfish wrote...

Mike1220 wrot...

@drayfish thanks. I respect the people who don't like it but Im just voicing my opinion and wanted to see if anyone thought like I did and not be bashed for it lol

 My only issue is when people presume that those who hate the ending 'did not understand it' or 'wanted ice cream and ponies'.

But the people who say this miss the fact that if the ending was done with any other way it would basicly be ice cream and ponies. The entire point of the ending was to bring the player to moral conflict over the choice. We are not sappost to like the choices we are given.
That's inherite will all hard choices.

Modifié par dreman9999, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:40 .

[hukbum]

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

If you read "or" for "and", you may be right

Your point? Your not being clear.

This:

hukbum wrote...

A youtube user wrote...

In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

Not in the game I've played ...  maybe he's got a diffrent copy?

And this was me being a bit nit-picky from the start. Sorry if it sounded serious, it was never ment to be

Modifié par hukbum, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:45 .

[CaIIisto]

Mike1220 wrote...

@Bester76 I accept your apology. I meant no disrespect to others who hate the endings I was just stating my opinion. To the person who said video games should always be about winning the in end I strongly disagree. Just cause it's not a movie doesn't mean it can't end like one. I kinda get bored of all the endings where everything is well and good without any sort of collateral damage.

Well this is the thing I guess - ME3 was supposedly a game of many outcomes - I don't have a problem with all the bases being covered. Your actions throughout the game should, IMO, have determined a fate that could be anything across the range. You could have the total fail ending, you could have the hollow victory ending, you could have the sacrificial ending, you could have the heroic victory ending.

[Fades56]

dreman9999 wrote...

Fades56 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Fades56 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

A youtube user wrote...

In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

Not in the game I've played ...  maybe he's got a diffrent copy?


Edit: Fixed the quote.

So in the end of ME3, everyone died or did not rebuild the galexy and live happy because of Shepards sacrific?

Your kind of implying Shep had a way out, no sacrifice in the end just choosing the way you want to die, DAO had an Ok version of how a hero could sacrifice themselves for the betterment of everyone else, this only gives you different choices as to how you want to die.

Don'tbring DAO into this. We don't even know the results of the actions of the ending yet. For all we know it just means living long enoughto have something worse happen. It just a happy ending for now.

K just meant they actually implemented a better use of choosing a Hero's sacrifice, letting someone else take the sacrifice or making a deal with a witch, kind of challenges your morals there and you know what gonna happen, here I know that Shep lives in HIgh Ems destroy, buit really was that made clear that you live by anything before you make the choice, nope just that you manage to finally get rid of the reapers by shooting through our own allies, but yeah just all suicide from the choices we are given and how you want to die, just my opinion.

Destroy high ems destroy has all synthetic life make the sacrific while your Shepard lives. And it matter not if it was made clear.

It kind of does, otherwise they are all death, death, and death with a chance of surviving, and the so called sacrifice of synthetic life just seems empty if you destroyed the geth on Rannoch or if they can be rebuilt all be rebuilt.

[Mystiq6]

They keep saying Sacrifice was the point all along, and I can argue that they did a poor job of reflecting that theme in the game. So many people say that the primary theme of the game is overcoming impossible odds through teamwork. Shepard's anticlimactic finale was at the bottom of my possible outcomes list.

With all the war assets I collected, I was expecting a massive final battle. Yeah, a video game ending but hey, this is a video game. It didn't have to be typical. I just wanted an ending. I still don't think we got one. Instead, I was handed a pity victory.

Modifié par Mystiq6, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:47 .

[MrFob]

OP, I am happy that the ending works for you.
As for myself, I don't have such a big problem with sacrifice or with the fact that you cannot ouright win. Here are my main problems with it:
1. The ending is disconnected from the story: It introduces a new character that introduces a theme that was already dealt with in the story and that has been solved.
2. The catalyst is either a completely illogical character or it is badly implemented and not explained well enough: The catalysts actions and it's motivations don't match. It want's to have a new solution for it's problem and claims that this solution is it's sole purpose and the reason it omitted genocide over and over for billions of years, however, it also offers you the destroy option which will just destroy it without solving anything. Also, at further review, the two other solutions are not solutions at all either (I discussed this multiple times already in many threads).
3. Shepards actions and the consequences don't match up: Whatever you decide, Shepard is forced to do something rather horrible (or at least something morally ambiguous). However, the proper consequences (which should than reflect the moral ambiguity) don't match. Instead, we suddenly and (for me) unexpectedly we get happy ending epilogues that never deal with the obvious potential downsides. This is sending a very disturbing message in my opinion.
4. Shepards character changes dramatically in these last minutes: Yes, Shepard has been through a lot, s/he is wounded and bleeding but the way Shep acts in this last, most pivotal, most important conversation - during the climax of the story! - implies that s/he had a breakdown just before the most vital decision s/he will ever make. It may be somewhat understandable, maybe even realistic but it sure as hell doesn't fit into a scifi epic (which is what ME always claimed to be and was until that moment).

So no, this is not a monument to sacrifice. In my opinion, it is a monument to someone not thinking things through on many many levels.

Modifié par MrFob, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:51 .

[PrimeOfValor]

Mike1220 wrote...

A man on Youtube posted this to counter what someone said about the ending being bad.
"Then you completely missed the ending. The point of the
ending is not to make you feel like you won everything, but to make you
understand the meaning of sacrifice. Yeah, decisions in ME1 or ME2 may
not seem like a huge impact in the end, but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories. In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

I 100% agree with him. What do you guys think?

Before or after EC?

[C9316]

At this point I think we the players understood 'sacrifice' pretty damn well; we didn't need genocide, totalitarianism, or whatever synthesis is presented in such a way that made nearly everything you did pointless.

[SNascimento]

That is more or less what I think. But instead of sacrificing, I would use a broader term: death. ME3 original endings are about the finality of death and its uncertainty. But also about that it's not everything over when you are gone, something in the lines of "what you do in life echoes in eternity".
.
EC kills a lot of it. That why I think it should have never existed.

[crimzontearz]

No and we were promised an array of VERY DIFFERENT endings and that our choices would matter in OUR story. That is what I paid for but never was given

[squee365]

Woop woop.

Long live the BSN hate patrol.

[Mcfly616]

Well I love the Extended Cut endings. But I do not agree with the OP because I definitely did feel as if I had "Won" lol (no matter what choice I made)


Though one of the points you made does explain why many people hate on the endings: there is sacrifice no matter how you slice it. Some people live in LaLa Land where there is no such thing as sacrifice lol

[darthoptimus003]

sorry didnt spend money on a bs deep meaning i spent money to be entertained
and i wasnt thanks to the ending

[dreman9999]

C9316 wrote...

At this point I think we the players understood 'sacrifice' pretty damn well; we didn't need genocide, totalitarianism, or whatever synthesis is presented in such a way that made nearly everything you did pointless.

The thing here is no matter the sacrific the player saw.....It would not fully reflect on the lesson untill the player had to do it thems selve. It's one thing to see but it's another to do.

The ending puts you at a point of doing the sacrific....Of the pc life or morality.

It still in the question of what the pleay is willing to do to stop an unstopable force and the ending put the player in the extremes of that question.