431 réponses à ce sujet

[dreman9999]

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you want that noble death...Pick control.

What's noble about control?

The only person who is sacrificed is Shepard and his/her life as a human. It stops the reaper with out any more deaths then Shepard.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
But you missing the point. That still just means there motivations is not stated. You can at least try to explain to a kid.

But the kid still wouldn't get it and it's pointless to try until the kid learns some SCIENCE!

We, as a galaxy, was that kid.

[drayfish]

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Please, both heros and villain can do that and have done so. 

Examples.

The odyssey has this.

That is complete misrepresentation.  Where does The Odyssey show any example of such a thing?

Indeed, The Odyssey is an example that completely undermines your analysis, as everything that Odysseus learns on his journey contributes to the decisions and actions he must undertake at the end of his journey.  By your definition Mass Effect is the complete opposite as Shepard must apparently sacrifice those beliefs.

Modifié par drayfish, 12 octobre 2012 - 03:50 .

[dreman9999]

CronoDragoon wrote...

The odyssey has this.

The Odyssey has what? Odysseus never sacrifices his morals. And Poseidon never sacrifices himself. I am confused.

What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monsters  and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

Modifié par dreman9999, 12 octobre 2012 - 03:50 .

[JamieCOTC]

Mike1220 wrote...

A man on Youtube posted this to counter what someone said about the ending being bad.
"Then you completely missed the ending. The point of the
ending is not to make you feel like you won everything, but to make you
understand the meaning of sacrifice. Yeah, decisions in ME1 or ME2 may
not seem like a huge impact in the end, but ME3 makes you remember
everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your
victories. In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they
have always been.
You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."

I 100% agree with him. What do you guys think?

I chose synthesis so getting a Shep lives and a happy ending wasn't a big deal.  In fact, I was ready to take my femShep through the gates of hell and have her die.  If you look at the whole game as the ending then yes, I would somewhat agree w/ what you've stated, but the last ten minutes, no. I will concede that it's possible that's what they were going for but it wound up being a botched mess full of plot holes, speculation for the sake of speculation, and all the emotion of a wet paper towel.

[wantedman dan]

Finn the Jakey wrote...

No.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monster to get home and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

Uh, no. They all died either to stupidity or because they made a god mad. Not because Ulysses was like "Yo guys, I want to go home and have sexy time with my wife. Sucks to be ya'll."

[dreman9999]

drayfish wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

Please, both heros and villain can do that and have done so. 

Examples.

The odyssey has this.

That is complete misrepresentation.  Where does The Odyssey show any example of such a thing?

Indeed, The Odyssey is an example that completely undermines your analysis, as everything that Odysseus learns on his journey contributes to the decisions and actions he must undertake at the end of his journey.  By your definition Mass Effect is the complete opposite as Shepard must apparently sacrifice those beliefs.

The main character iUlysses  sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monsters  and is garanteed to live but it told that the men of his crew will not and does it any how.

[hukbum]

dreman9999 wrote...

hukbum wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

If you want that noble death...Pick control.

What's noble about control?

The only person who is sacrificed is Shepard and his/her life as a human. It stops the reaper with out any more deaths then Shepard.

People who lived under a regime of control might disagree with you. You know, it's a really funny thing. Very noble and such ... until you disagree. But yes, you're right, the ending is just about sacrafice ...

[drayfish]

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The odyssey has this.

The Odyssey has what? Odysseus never sacrifices his morals. And Poseidon never sacrifices himself. I am confused.

What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monster to get home and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

This is utterly, completely eggregiously wrong.

Odysseus at no point 'sacrifices' his men.  Frequently they die because they sacrifice their morals and do foolish things in order to try and stay alive - again, a complete contradiction of your analysis.

Modifié par drayfish, 12 octobre 2012 - 03:53 .

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The odyssey has this.

The Odyssey has what? Odysseus never sacrifices his morals. And Poseidon never sacrifices himself. I am confused.

What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monsters  and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

Lol. No, it isn't.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 octobre 2012 - 03:53 .

[dreman9999]

[x

Modifié par dreman9999, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:00 .

[dreman9999]

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The odyssey has this.

The Odyssey has what? Odysseus never sacrifices his morals. And Poseidon never sacrifices himself. I am confused.

What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monsters  and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

Lol. No, it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses

Yes it is.

[drayfish]

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The odyssey has this.

The Odyssey has what? Odysseus never sacrifices his morals. And Poseidon never sacrifices himself. I am confused.

What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monsters  and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

Lol. No, it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses

Yes it is.

The Odyssey is a poem written by Homer that charts the journey of the Greek hero Odysseus.  Ulysses is the later Roman 'adaptation' (for lack of a better term).

[dreman9999]

drayfish wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The odyssey has this.

The Odyssey has what? Odysseus never sacrifices his morals. And Poseidon never sacrifices himself. I am confused.

What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monster to get home and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

This is utterly, completely eggregiously wrong.

Odysseus at no point 'sacrifices' his men.  Frequently they die because they sacrifice their morals and do foolish things in order to try and stay alive - again, a complete contradiction of your analysis.

No.. Ulysses always savethem...But he did sacrific them to the Scylla..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses

Yes it is.

I have no idea why you are calling him Ulysses. The actual Odyssey poem calls him Odysseus, as do any book translations I've read that are in print. The actual name of the epic poem, The Oddysey, comes from his name. Odyssey means "the story of Odysseus."

Ulysses is just what the Romans called him. Has nothing to do with Homer or the Odyssey.

Modifié par CronoDragoon, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:01 .

[dreman9999]

drayfish wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

CronoDragoon wrote...

The odyssey has this.

The Odyssey has what? Odysseus never sacrifices his morals. And Poseidon never sacrifices himself. I am confused.

What?The main character is Ulysses and he sacrifices his men...Who he time and time agein saved, to get home.
He is literly told to get home he has to get through a pass filled with sea monsters  and is garanteed to live but it told hthe men of his crew will not and does it any how.

Lol. No, it isn't.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses

Yes it is.

The Odyssey is a poem written by Homer that charts the journey of the Greek hero Odysseus.  Ulysses is the later Roman 'adaptation' (for lack of a better term).

That still means we are both right about his name.

[Ticonderoga117]

dreman9999 wrote...
No.. Ulysses always savethem...But he did sacrific them to the Scylla..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla

Hug Scylla's crag—sail on past her—top speed! Better by far to lose six men and keep your ship than lose your entire crew

That's not sacrificing them, especially since doing otherwise would get them all killed.

Modifié par Ticonderoga117, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:03 .

[dreman9999]

CronoDragoon wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses

Yes it is.

I have no idea why you are calling him Ulysses. The actual Odyssey poem calls him Odysseus, as do any book translations I've read that are in print. The actual name of the epic poem, The Oddysey, comes from his name. Odyssey means "the story of Odysseus."

But is many versions he is called Ulysses. The link says that.

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...
That still means we are both right about his name.

It means you have no clue why it's called the Odyssey. You can't call the poem the Odyssey and the main character Ulysses, the reason for which I've stated above.

[drayfish]

dreman9999 wrote...

No.. Ulysses always savethem...But he did sacrific them to the Scylla..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla

This is absurd.  Odysseus does not sacrifice his men.  He is forced to sail past two monsters and one of them attacks his people.  You somehow equating this with Odysseus offering them up as sacrifices is mind-boggling.

Have you actually read the book?  Because you seem to be completely misunderstanding what you are reading on Wikipaedia.

Modifié par drayfish, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:04 .

[dreman9999]

Ticonderoga117 wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...
No.. Ulysses always savethem...But he did sacrific them to the Scylla..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla

Hug Scylla's crag—sail on past her—top speed! Better by far to lose six men and keep your ship than lose your entire crew

That's not sacrficing them, especially since doing otherwise would get them all killed.

That is sacrificing them. He was told he would lose 6 men and did it any way. That him sacrificing so the ship can go on.

[dreman9999]

drayfish wrote...

dreman9999 wrote...

No.. Ulysses always savethem...But he did sacrific them to the Scylla..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scylla

This is absurd.  Odysseus does not sacrifice his men.  He is forced to sail past two monsters and one of them attacks his people.  You somehow equating this with Odysseus offering them up as sacrifices is mind-boggling.

Have you actually read the book?  Because you seem to be completely misunderstanding what you are reading on Wikipaedia.

I'm sorry...Did Circe not tell him he would lose 6 men going that route?And yes I read it.

Modifié par dreman9999, 12 octobre 2012 - 04:05 .

[CronoDragoon]

dreman9999 wrote...
But is many versions he is called Ulysses. The link says that.

Are you referring to the Literature and Film list, which plains lists as the first thing:

Odysseus, the legendary Greek king of Ithaca and hero of the Odyssey

The Joyce novel isn't the Odyssey. Neither are any works of art listed there. He's called Odysseus in the Odyssey, and if you took a Homer class and called him Ulysses, you would be immediately corrected.

[Ratimir]

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]Ratimir wrote...

[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

[quote]Ratimir wrote...

No
[quote]dreman9999 wrote...

Yes...That is exactly the point. Any one that says no just wants a rainbows happy ending.[/quote]

No

[/quote]So Shepard did not sacrific his/her life or the geth in the ending?
[/quote]

Sacrifice is spelt with an E. Please take five seconds to check for obvious typos before posting.

We were asked if we agreed with the statement quoted in the original post. I do not.

Specifically:

"The point of the ending is not to make you feel like you won everything, but to make you understand the meaning of sacrifice."
- Shepard is given no choice for survival. If the sacrifice is forced on us, then it is meaningless.

"Yeah, decisions in ME1 or ME2 may not seem like a huge impact in the end, but ME3 makes you remember everything that you did, your experience, your struggles, your victories."
- Decisions in ME1, or ME2, or the vast majority of ME3 seem to have no impact in the end. It makes me remember everything I did only to wonder why it was thrown out the window.

"In the end, you save the galaxy and let all beings be as they have always been."
- In the end you commit your choice of three war crimes and irrevocably change entire species.

"You pick how you want to live and be remembered by."
- You pick how you want to die and nobody will ever know.

Please, enlighten me: how does disagreeing with this in any way imply that I "just wants a rainbows happy ending"?
[/quote]Let's look up the meaning of Sacrifice.

http://www.thefreedi...y.com/sacrifice
1.a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
b. A victim offered in this way.
2.a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.Something so forfeited.
3.a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value. 
b.Something so relinquished.
c. A loss so sustained.

Choice is not required.[/quote]
I never said there was no sacrifice, I said that without choice the sacrifice is meaningless.
[quote]
Also, your Shepard has a choice....He can refuse or let someone else get Sacrificed or come with him.[/quote]
Refusal also kills Shepard. And who is this 'someone else'?

[/quote]The sacrific is not less if you have no choice. The fact that you have not choice but to do itor else everyone dies make the choice of how to do it difficult.
It does not make it meaning less...It just make it so you don't like doing it...That's what makes it a hard choice.
[/quote]

Sacrifice is spelt with an E. We just covered this. "...you have not choice...". "Itor" is not a word. 
"...makeS the choice...". Meaningless does not have a space in it. "...makeS it so...".

No, what makes it difficult is that the only choices we are given are war crimes or surrender. What makes it meaningless is that every choice is a loss for Shepard and at least a partial victory for the enemy.