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Suggestion for DA:Inquisition #1: False Accusations!


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#1
Fast Jimmy

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So, there are precious few details out about the next Dragon Age game, other than the main character will be, what Bioware calls, an Inquisitor.

While that one little piece of information seems to have spawned LIMITLESS threads about LI possibilities, racial choices for the main character, bemoaning about possibly being forced to play a Chantry-aligned character... I thought I'd try and focus on being an actual Inquisitor for this thread, and seeing what that (could) mean.

An Inquisitor is someone who, plainly put, Inquires. They ask questions. They try and find the truth. Now, in Western European history, the Inquisition is often tied to the dark Spanish Inquisition (queue the Mel Brooks jokes!), its not clear if this is going to be  tied to brutal interrogation via torture, if it would include intricate cases of espionage, bribery and subterfuge, or if the organization could be all just rainbows and sunshine. Let's hope there is the option for both.


That being said, I want to go over a mechanic I'd like to see for DA3 - false accusations.


False Accusations


An old staple of RPGs are quests were you have to solve a mystery. This usually involves talking to a ton of NPCs, finding the right conversation options, finding the obligatory evidence and then talking to some of the same NPCs again until the options comes up that says "It was YOU!!!" Which, while cool, is a mite bit boring... but not for the reasons you might be thinking.

The thing is, when this is done in games (such as Ultima 7, Fallout or DA:O), the game doesn't really require the player to pay attention to all that many of the details, since if you just keep talking to people and follow the clues, you will always get that dialogue option to say "It was you!" which then results in a confession that involves the person turning themselves in or fighting you. But what if the power to imprison someone on suscpicion alone was an option? What if the clues NEVER clearly pointed to one suspect over another, but rather cast shadows of doubt on a number of people? What if, when accused, a person who is falsely accused fights for their life, but the guilty person pleads, saying you have the wrong man? 

What if, essentially, you had no real, concrete way of KNOWING who the right or wrong person was everytime... and you could throw out false accusations which would imprison the wrong person?


Before We Go Crazy


Now... let me take a few steps back... this would NOT involve going up to any and all NPCs and saying "You're under arrest" just by walking up to them on the street. That would be both silly and unwieldly. This would only come into play during set quests/events where you are looking for a guilty party (searching for an apostate, or looking for a Templar informer, or attempting to weed out a Daughter of Flemeth from a group of women, etc., etc.). You would still need to talk to a bunch of NPCs, you'd still need to find plot items which act as evidence, and you'd still need to say "It was YOU!" to accuse someone... but that option would, even after all the information is gained, by an option for anyone who was a suspect.

It would require moral gut checks on the part of the player, having to make the call of who is trustworthy and who is not. It would put into mind the problem of what you think is acceptable evidence, the possibility of conspiracies or having to determine if the tone someone took is guilty or something else. 

It could also have impacts on the story of the game. For instance, during DA2, you search for a serial killer (who winds up killing your mother) and can release a man who you originally think is the killer, but turns out not to be (at least according to him). You can believe him and let him go, or kill him. In the end, DA2 doesn't let you affect the story at all with this choice, but imagine if it could, where sparing the man and letting him go opens up the option of him having more information later on, or killing him could have scared off the real killer into moving into a new area.


Wrong for the Right Reasons

Which leads me to the next aspect I think would be interesting: having GOOD outcomes for accusing/punishing the WRONG person, and BAD outcomes for capturing the RIGHT person.

There are ton of ways this could happen. And it wouldn't happen in EVERY INSTANCE. But long story short - if you capture the wrong person, it doesn't mean that things will be inherently worse. In fact, it could have no impact, or it could even have a good one, where perhaps the criminals in question keep on doing their activities and it results in eliminating future opposition or obstacles. Think gang vs.gang warfare wiping out a rival gang, all because you threw the wrong person in jail and never stopped the gang from gaining power. 

Similarly, if you put the right person in prison for the right crime, this may cause trails to become cold, as associates of the criminal now view you as someone to be avoided and not talked to. While, if no one has seen you arresting any known criminals, they might be more likely to not run away at the mere sight of you. 


Conclusion

These are some pretty basic examples of how this whole mechanic could work, but I am far from a good writer. So I'd leave the details to the professionals. But, that being said, I would like a mechanic that lets us decide who the guilty party is, for better or worse, rather than just keep plugging at clues until the guilty party is pretty much painted on the wall in bright colors. Adding ambiguity to the search could be a very interesting concept, especially for a game that is going to let you play as an Inquisitor, a role that is known for making judgments and imprionments.

Modifié par Fast Jimmy, 12 octobre 2012 - 12:27 .


#2
Sandy

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I have to say that I loved this aspect in KOTOR. The whole trial thing that happened on Manaan as well as the police-work you could do on Dantooine were great. I loved having to question people, make decisions and trusting/not trusting characters and report back to someone, ultimately deciding someone's fate. If Bioware could bring that back then I would be very happy.

A good long arena-type fighter challenge and a mystery having to get solved through detective work have always been things that I loved about Bioware games, but those two elements have been lacking or absent in recent games.

#3
Gileadan

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You mean a bit like the quest "Vizima Confidential" in Witcher 1? While there was one definite proof that told you who did it, it was easily missed (I did during my first playthrough) and you could accuse anyone of the suspects, and your journal would then state that the person you accused was the guilty one, no matter whether that was true or not. And it even had an autopsy side-quest attached to it. Ah, detective work. :)

#4
TCBC_Freak

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sandellniklas wrote...

I have to say that I loved this aspect in KOTOR. The whole trial thing that happened on Manaan as well as the police-work you could do on Dantooine were great. I loved having to question people, make decisions and trusting/not trusting characters and report back to someone, ultimately deciding someone's fate. If Bioware could bring that back then I would be very happy.

A good long arena-type fighter challenge and a mystery having to get solved through detective work have always been things that I loved about Bioware games, but those two elements have been lacking or absent in recent games.


That part in KotOR on Manaan is one of the bits I liked the most. I'd love to see more of that type of thing.

#5
deatharmonic

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I'd definitely be up for this, sounds like a much more interesting way to do things.

#6
Fast Jimmy

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Gileadan wrote...

You mean a bit like the quest "Vizima Confidential" in Witcher 1? While there was one definite proof that told you who did it, it was easily missed (I did during my first playthrough) and you could accuse anyone of the suspects, and your journal would then state that the person you accused was the guilty one, no matter whether that was true or not. And it even had an autopsy side-quest attached to it. Ah, detective work. :)


I have not played the Witcher, but yes, this would be a perfect example. Although it would be nice of the game, later on, gave you an indication that you had picked the wrong suspect, to twist the knife on the player a little. :) But maybe that's just my sadomassochistic gaming tendencies coming out. 

These are also great ways to give experience for players who don't want to go the route of 'kill everything every five minutes' gameplay that has come to dominate RPGs the last few years. 

#7
brushyourteeth

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I like this idea. However...

... this would NOT involve going up to any and all NPCs and saying "You're under arrest" just by walking up to them on the street.


Why not....?  Image IPB


Kidding! I think this is brilliant. My only stipulation is that there would be a long path and a short path to this quest's conclusion, for those of us who are completionists and have to do everything *just right* and those (like my husband) who would rather just bash some skulls and get the quest over with, even if it means missing out on some cool content.

#8
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*

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Jimmy I just love the idea! Image IPB

This is something that is optional in some way and players who only like to do the main story can skip this while the 'explorers' who want to do every single thing available can do it.

Things like this have been done in several games I played and I for one loved it. For me RPG are a package that contains different kinds of things that can be done.

An example that comes to mind is one from a jRPG, FFX-2. There have been problems with the robots that guard the highway and Yuna, Page and Ricku have to reconstruct the events that lead to it. Depending on your choices you have a different outcome of who is the one responsible for it.

Implementing your suggestion could also give more background about Thedas while doing given quests.
Make it happen BW!

#9
Fast Jimmy

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brushyourteeth wrote...

I like this idea. However...

... this would NOT involve going up to any and all NPCs and saying "You're under arrest" just by walking up to them on the street.


Why not....?  Image IPB

What was I thinking? LOL All NPCs will be subject to our Quincy's whims!



Kidding! I think this is brilliant. My only stipulation is that there would be a long path and a short path to this quest's conclusion, for those of us who are completionists and have to do everything *just right* and those (like my husband) who would rather just bash some skulls and get the quest over with, even if it means missing out on some cool content.


I agree. Giving th ability to accuse anyone, right off the gate may lead to meta-gaming once a player knows the exact circumstances... but maybe having the ability to be hamfisted about it and start bashing skulls in questioning, instead of prodding through dialogue and investigation?

#10
brushyourteeth

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

brushyourteeth wrote...

I like this idea. However...


... this would NOT involve going up to any and all NPCs and saying "You're under arrest" just by walking up to them on the street.


Why not....?  Image IPB

What was I thinking? LOL All NPCs will be subject to our Quincy's whims!


YESS!!!!  Image IPB

I agree. Giving th ability to accuse anyone, right off the gate may lead to meta-gaming once a player knows the exact circumstances... but maybe having the ability to be hamfisted about it and start bashing skulls in questioning, instead of prodding through dialogue and investigation?

OMG... imagine threatening or interrogating someone into a confession, then finding out later you made a mistake and screwed yourself over in the process?  Image IPB

Like if Leandra had only died if you'd killed Gascard right off the bat, but working with him would save her. Only more complicated (I think that's what you're hoping for - and I'd love that too).

#11
Fast Jimmy

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^

Exactly! The more complicated the better! That's what I'm going for.

#12
Wulfram

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I accuse Reverend Mother Green in the Circle with the Rage Demon!

Sounds interesting. I certainly agree that RPGs representations of investigations tends to be rather weak and simplistic.

Might be cool if they included a couple of (randomly selected) variants on the mystery and who ultimately proved guilty, so that the interest survived replays better.

There might also be occasions when the guilty party is actually fairly sympathetic, and you'd rather frame someone else. For a horribly cliched example, better the rapist Chevalier be punished rather than the elf he drove to blood magic?

Modifié par Wulfram, 12 octobre 2012 - 02:19 .


#13
Guest_Nizaris1_*

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Inquisitor : "It was YOU!"
The Accused ; "Me?!"
inquisitor : "Yes, YOU!"
The Accused : "Why me?!"
Inquisitor : "I don't know, but it is YOU!"

I think this kind of game will lost it's surprise after we know the truth, i mean, let say we accused the wrong person, then the one who is guilty will continue doing his/her evil work, then we know we are wrong, next time we play we accuse the right person.

I like it like Emerich case in DA2, up to today i don't know d'Puis is guilty or not. I kill him every time though

#14
Guest_sjpelkessjpeler_*

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DA2 tried to do a thing like that with convincing the templar in the hanged man to arrest a person by making him look bad. The attempt was there but it just did not feel like it took some effort. Making it more complicated and having more different outcomes would be great.

#15
brushyourteeth

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Wulfram wrote...

There might also be occasions when the guilty party is actually fairly sympathetic, and you'd rather frame someone else. For a horribly cliched example, better the rapist Chevalier be punished rather than the elf he drove to blood magic?


Yeah! Like the viddithari elves in Act 2, who killed their sister's rapist because the guard wouldn't do anything to help them.

#16
eroeru

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Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Exactly! The more complicated the better! That's what I'm going for.


This is what I want.

Modifié par eroeru, 12 octobre 2012 - 02:39 .


#17
Fast Jimmy

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eroeru wrote...

Fast Jimmy wrote...

^

Exactly! The more complicated the better! That's what I'm going for.


This is what I want.


Yep. If it ain't broke, then you haven't tried hard enough. 

#18
Sylvius the Mad

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sandellniklas wrote...

I have to say that I loved this aspect in KOTOR. The whole trial thing that happened on Manaan as well as the police-work you could do on Dantooine were great.

As soon as I read the post, I immediately thought of Dantoonie.

In that one, the evidence did point clearly to one party, but you had to be pretty persistent to get there.  Along the way, you could levy accusations at either party and have those accusations stick.

I like Jimmy's suggestion, and since BioWare has done this sort of thing before I'm comfortable asking for it.

#19
RandomSyhn

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The title itself supports the possibility of these mechanics, questioning witnesses and suspects, also possibly intentionally accusing innocents, or simply the wrong suspecet, especially if they interfere with what you need or want to do. Moral ambiguity can be fun. I would love some intrigue in this game possibly political dealings as well. This is Orlais we're discussing and Orlais has a reputation for being a political minefield in fancy dress.

#20
Foolsfolly

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I love this idea. Good one, OP.

#21
Quicksilver26

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i'm with you bring on the whodunit it sounds like fun!

(btw OP that was a lot of words just to say you want a mystery with consciences) 

Modifié par Quicksilver26, 12 octobre 2012 - 06:02 .


#22
Ditch17

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Sounds like a great idea!

I've always liked these sorts of things, and I felt some of the quests in DA2 didn't quite measure up to some of those in DA:O and other Bioware games (not that I've played all that many though).

I also don't see it being that difficult to implement; they already have choices in the games, e.g. to kill Kester or to take him into custody, the only thing they need to add is more possibilities.

I think its most enjoyable when you can choose different ways to complete the quest; perhaps when you choose a suspect, you could then decide on how to deal with them.

For instance, you could execute them outright, which would have consequences, depending on if they're innocent or guilty; you could imprison them, which would then give you the option of releasing them later if your investigation turns up new evidence, or maybe you could then torture them whilst in prison? Perhaps when you select a suspect you can instead send someone to watch them, track their movements until they reveal something incriminating?

Modifié par Ditch17, 13 octobre 2012 - 12:53 .


#23
Blessed Silence

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Great ideas, 5 stars from me!

I would want a "Whoopse" option if I screwed up ... but the idea of accusing someone and getting the repercssions later sounds intriguing, indeed!