191 réponses à ce sujet

[Zaxares]

Dragoons are extremely annoying if you're a kit that can't dodge. Your only hope is to have sufficient health/shields to survive their initial barrage or kill them before they get close to you. (Easy enough on open maps, but quite hard to do in tight places like Glacier or Goddess.

The Geth Bombers are likewise annoying because of their ability to flush you from cover. In fact, I'd say that difficulty has gone up as a whole BECAUSE each of the races (apart from Reapers) now has the ability to effectively flush the squad from cover. The Geth have the Bombers, Cerberus have their old grenades plus the Dragoons who rush in and use AoE attacks, and the Collectors have their Swarms and Abominations. This means that the party has to spend a lot more time on the move, which increases the margin of error when relocating to safer spots, or of letting yourself get flanked.

The game can still be beaten, but it's a few notches higher than what it used to be. However, I imagine we'll reach a new equilibrium eventually once players become familiar with the new tactics and develop new strategies to deal with them.

[Kenadian]

Zaxares wrote...

Dragoons are extremely annoying if you're a kit that can't dodge. Your only hope is to have sufficient health/shields to survive their initial barrage or kill them before they get close to you. (Easy enough on open maps, but quite hard to do in tight places like Glacier or Goddess.

The Geth Bombers are likewise annoying because of their ability to flush you from cover. In fact, I'd say that difficulty has gone up as a whole BECAUSE each of the races (apart from Reapers) now has the ability to effectively flush the squad from cover. The Geth have the Bombers, Cerberus have their old grenades plus the Dragoons who rush in and use AoE attacks, and the Collectors have their Swarms and Abominations. This means that the party has to spend a lot more time on the move, which increases the margin of error when relocating to safer spots, or of letting yourself get flanked.

The game can still be beaten, but it's a few notches higher than what it used to be. However, I imagine we'll reach a new equilibrium eventually once players become familiar with the new tactics and develop new strategies to deal with them.

Only if you're a Turian. Krogans ****ing devour Dragoons.

[Xeraphas]

upinya slayin wrote...

i'm really curious to this statement.

here are the changes
Also, here are some additional changes that were included with the Retaliation DLC or missed in our patch notes.
- Geth Pyros can now stomp players who are downed
- Marauders can now stomp players who are downed
- Atlas now moves faster
- Atlas rocket will add a small damage-over-time effect on players that prevents shield regeneration for a short time
- Geth Prime drone now attacks players
- New map layout for Firebase White and Firebase Glacier
- Wave changes to Geth faction to account for new Geth Bomber enemy
- Wave changes to Cerberus faction to account for the new Dragoon enemy
- Carnage power can now set up Fire Explosion power combos



Ceberus
added dragoons in palce of some pahtoms

to me thats a decrese in difficulty. i'd rather take on 3 dragoons at once then 1 phantom. Phantoms are soo annoying i ususally carry a gun or power just to deal with them. Give me dragoons all day. Nothing else has changed

Atlas moves faster and missile does DOT
a little harder sure, but atlas's were soo slow before its nto a big deal. espaicially compared to a banshee to preatorian who move fast as hell.

The DOT doens't do much other then delay your shield recharge. so yes a little harder but still overall a wash since les pahntoms on the board

Geth
Added bomber took out hunters i believe in the spawn. I notice alot less of them. i could be wrong. geth have always been cheap and annoying but bombers don't do much. they just pull you out of cover and stun you if your close. BW already said they will look into "fixing" the geth. it'll probably get worked out but the bomber doens't make them harder. just makes you move more.

Pyros can stom now
Big deal. troopers stomped you fast as hell anyway. I'd see them stop shooting and run to a downed teammate. letting pyros do it too isn't a big deal.

Reapers
Maurders stomp (also fixed canibal glitch so they can execute)
again it was a glitch that they couldn't execute. they fixed a glitch and allowed 1 more type to execute. giving them 2 types which isn't a big deals ince each faction has 2 types

new map layouts
glacier lost some cover and the room of shame. didn't make it harder. a map is a map. nothing makes it harder or easier. it can only make it cheap. they rmeoved teh cheapness. geth might be cheap and we complain butshouldn't enemies complain about the FBW camping room. If i was a geth trooper i'd be like WTF i can't hit them and if i get close they grab me. this is BS lol

All in all none of it made the game harder IMO. it made it harder to sit in one spot, but the difficulty tiself hans't changed much if at all.

to compat it we got a huge buff ot FEs and CEs more gear bonus's, level 4 ammo, more ammo types, new wepaons, new powerful characters, new support characters, hazard maps etc. its not like BW hasn't equipped us to deal with this. They gave us tools, we need to learn how to use them.

Several reasons.   Yes they have fewer phantoms percent per spawn BUT, there is apparently alot more enemies in total in general, so the actual number of phantom reduction does not have much of an apparent effect.  This is especially true on the objective waves, and the last 3 waves in all difficulties even bronze.  Bronze while some games are still fairly fast and easy, can sometimes easily feel more like a silver match with the number of enemies spamminga at you.

Geth bombers may have replaced some hunters but again the total number of enemies sure as heck appear to be higher, perhaps much higher than before.  So this cumulative effect maybe minimal.  Bombers also from games have low cooldowns.  Sure players have none, but grenade powers have limited number, bombers don't.  So they should have longer cool downs.  I have seem them even on bronze drop one volly of grenades and as soon as you move away they drop another volley.  Bombers are small and fast as well, so they are hard as hell to hit.  This is more so because in most maps it is often hard to tell them from the back ground initially.  (Same colors and texture patterns as that of most maps)/

Scions are probably worse at grenade spam.  They have more grenades in each volley and also have no apparent cool down penalty.  This so called weak spot on the back does not appear to make a huge difference either in games I have played.

The Glacier changes makes little sense to me.  I for one rarely used that room and not it looks weird to see the room but have it sealed up.  If people want to hole up in there more power to them because there is no backway out if you get in trouble.

Pyros are still cheap.  There is no change to their range beyond their animation.  They move as agile as a ballet dancer and yet are too heavy to grab?  And now they have instant kill?  They don't need instant kill.  The flames are their instant kill as it does not take long in the flame wave to die, about the same time as a instant kill I'd say.  Depending on your character level and the level of the game.  But it is still pretty good.

One of the new drones, I think it is the prime drone, has a machine gun rate of fire attack.  Thats a bit excessive, but it also has a killer stun move more powerful and destructive to a player than that of any other unit. and the geth in general were already bad for this type of cheap attack.  I'd have to agree with what one poster said about this to remove it

The stomp move is no big deal, my only complaint about them is, they were supposed to only be more frequent for gold and platinum, but this is not the case. all levels were increased in time and rate of the stomp effect, when it should not have effected the lower levels.

[joker_jack]

ErrorTagUnknown wrote...

iheartbob wrote...

upinya slayin wrote...

i'm really curious to this statement.

here are the changes
Also, here are some additional changes that were included with the Retaliation DLC or missed in our patch notes.
- Geth Pyros can now stomp players who are downed
- Marauders can now stomp players who are downed
- Atlas now moves faster
- Atlas rocket will add a small damage-over-time effect on players that prevents shield regeneration for a short time
- Geth Prime drone now attacks players
- New map layout for Firebase White and Firebase Glacier
- Wave changes to Geth faction to account for new Geth Bomber enemy
- Wave changes to Cerberus faction to account for the new Dragoon enemy
- Carnage power can now set up Fire Explosion power combos



Ceberus
added dragoons in palce of some pahtoms

to me thats a decrese in difficulty. i'd rather take on 3 dragoons at once then 1 phantom. Phantoms are soo annoying i ususally carry a gun or power just to deal with them. Give me dragoons all day. Nothing else has changed

Atlas moves faster and missile does DOT
a little harder sure, but atlas's were soo slow before its nto a big deal. espaicially compared to a banshee to preatorian who move fast as hell.

The DOT doens't do much other then delay your shield recharge. so yes a little harder but still overall a wash since les pahntoms on the board

Geth
Added bomber took out hunters i believe in the spawn. I notice alot less of them. i could be wrong. geth have always been cheap and annoying but bombers don't do much. they just pull you out of cover and stun you if your close. BW already said they will look into "fixing" the geth. it'll probably get worked out but the bomber doens't make them harder. just makes you move more.

Pyros can stom now
Big deal. troopers stomped you fast as hell anyway. I'd see them stop shooting and run to a downed teammate. letting pyros do it too isn't a big deal.

Reapers
Maurders stomp (also fixed canibal glitch so they can execute)
again it was a glitch that they couldn't execute. they fixed a glitch and allowed 1 more type to execute. giving them 2 types which isn't a big deals ince each faction has 2 types

new map layouts
glacier lost some cover and the room of shame. didn't make it harder. a map is a map. nothing makes it harder or easier. it can only make it cheap. they rmeoved teh cheapness. geth might be cheap and we complain butshouldn't enemies complain about the FBW camping room. If i was a geth trooper i'd be like WTF i can't hit them and if i get close they grab me. this is BS lol

All in all none of it made the game harder IMO. it made it harder to sit in one spot, but the difficulty tiself hans't changed much if at all.

to compat it we got a huge buff ot FEs and CEs more gear bonus's, level 4 ammo, more ammo types, new wepaons, new powerful characters, new support characters, hazard maps etc. its not like BW hasn't equipped us to deal with this. They gave us tools, we need to learn how to use them.

Your entire post is a perfect example of why?

exxxactly.   it IS harder.   not a lot.   Collectors are definitely harder than the other enemies.

it was a lot harder4 for a lot of people at first as we were getting used to all the changes.   i've noticed over the course of this week, it's suddenly become a lot easier.  just adapting.   new challenges are always harder than old challenges.

One thing with that statement is, many player won't be able to adapt. Many are former fbwgg players. That bomber and the new white layout forced them out to other maps and so far they're not adpting. I've noticed there is a new movment of farming on rio though, However there is good amount of teamwork needed for this and I've seen it go south quick with players thinking it will be fbwgg.

[Fawx9]

upinya slayin wrote...

Fawx9 wrote...

Congradulations you just helped to point out why it's so much more difficult now to gear yourself(other than PSP).

The store is top heavy and bloated with all the new items constantly being added. Finding something you like has become much harder than it was before. With BW constantly increasing enemy difficulty but not buffing common/uncommon mods new and casual players are going to start hitting steeper and steeper walls.

With difficulties being buffed more players are forced back down into silver, their credit accumulation will be decreased and will take even longer to progress even if you ignore the item influx.

The store needs to change to make things more accesible. If people are going to be forced down difficulties then they should still be able to progress at a reasonable rate. AKA what they were before the changes and influx of items skewing rng. 

the game was meant to work your way up. not to be able to jump into gold as an N7 1

what you are feeling is sense of entitlement. thats what you are basing everything in a mindset of i should be able to have what i want becuase i rbought teh game

how is it fair to people who worked their way up form bronze from day 1. that put in over 600 hours. that took teh time to learn the game and the ins and outs. We earned these wepoans. I didn't get given a harrier X becuas ei asked for it. I worked my ass off to gte it and had fun in teh process. I met a bunch of cool people to play with and got really good. In no way Do i think i'm an elite top ranked player but i know that I dind't feel entitled to anyhting.

No its not entitlement, its simply stats,  the odds have swayed way too far away from what they originally were to obtain the standard rare gear.

Someone did a comparison last night, theres been about a 400% increase in items that are in the store(including with the new bloody rare ammo). That means any new/returning player is going to take 400% as long to get the gear than a player that started and played at the beginning.

With the current store implmentation and new DLC that timeline is only going to grow. How in the hell is that fair or reasonable.

I agree with the people that have been saying there needs to be a change. I like the idea that dumps the oldest rare weapons into the verteran pack pool each time a new DLC is released.

[corporal doody]

SimulatedSnowman wrote...

I think a lot of it is just trying to get used to new stuff, and some of it is possible shield/healthgate issues. Maybe I'm imagining stuff, but it seems like I'm getting downed a lot more than usual.

TRUTH

[Mafia_Steve]

I think I know what it is....

I just completed a Silver match against the Reapers, and I've noticed two things:

*There are more, stronger enemies. On extraction, we had 3 brutes and a Banshee on top of us at one time. I don't recall that being the case on silver, before.

*Second, they seem to spawn a lot closer to you. This means that those grunts are closer, and therefore more accurate, whereas in the past, they were farther away, allowing you to pick them off.

BTW, it might be that the enemies do more damage now. My N7 Demolisher (no fitness points) died on wave one (again, this is silver) by a single Cannibal. The first burst took out my shield, then second burst laid me out.

[koschwarz74]

No worries it happened with my krogan sentinel. fitness full shield, tech armor full damage reduction. i was just staring dumb muttering "wtf?"

[Xaijin]

The only real and drastic change is the broken gating.

The minor shift is Collectors negate powers and actually fight for area dominance, which no other enemy does. Whether that was intended or not, it does work awesomely.

[dandman313]

parico wrote...

They did give us tools but somethings off with health and shields. I've had full heath and shields just drop instantly. A single Cannibal ,Cerberus Trooper or Geth trooper can kill you on gold much quicker than before. Atlases now do damage over time banshees warp balls are dropping entire teams when they didn't before. My builds and equipment are the same yet I am dying more easily. Either they nerfed our shields of buffed the enemies damage or rates of fire. Considering the many threads about it somethings off.

I agree.  It also seems that my bullets do less damage to enemies especially since I play on Gold.

[rka001]

The whole difficulty discussion is ONLY valid for the shield/healthgate changes.

The intentional changes are just fine by me, but the aforementioned bug really make this game harder in some situations (f.e. multi revive situation).

Therefore, you elitist jerks can save your elitist yada yada, as this bug has been (unintentionally) confirmed. You are basically playing with much less survivability.

Until this has not been fixed, the discussions about extra enemies, additional dots etc are totally point- and useless.

[BerzerkGene]

Dragoons don't replace phantoms, they replace engineers. their attacks also absolutely wreck your shields, they move quickly and have a crapton of armour and will probably stomp you within 2 seconds if they down you.
and Cerberus troops who can execute: Trooper, Centurian, Dragoon, Atlas, Phantom.

Geth bombers replace pyros.
The geth who can stun/stagger: Hunter, Bomber(stun with tazer), Bomber(Stagger with grenades), Prime(stun with cannon), Combat drone(which primes spam the crap out of, to potentially be four of them at once.).
The real problems with the bomber is that it is tiny, but its tougher than a pyro(no weakspot/head), has infinite grenades, an erratic flying pattern and it is completely silent.
Pyros stomping i don't have a big issue with, but it does mean if you're flamed, you're basically out for the round.

Reapers are a bit harder with stomping, but the shield/healthgate issue can make a marauder take out all your shields and a bar of health with one shot on gold. And then theres my issue with banshees instakills, while less magnet hands, if you rez yourself with medigel and a banshee charges right on top of you, she instantly kills you, there is no delay between her appearance and her attack.

Collectors...well. The multiple possessions don't help and they're naturally the toughest faction through just their health levels. Scions are...terrible, they can grab and make phantoms look like bad and weak snipers.
Praetorians are actually harder than banshees, at least banshees can be slowed down, a praetorian constantly zooms at you.

Harder? Hell yes. Gold went from a regular occurance for me, difficult, but challenging. To almost bloody impossible.
Platinium went from Insanity difficulty x4 to Insanity difficulty x8.
Sometimes i now lose on silver with a good team. from before where i was a killing machine that could not be stopped.

[Anders028]

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoons don't replace phantoms, they replace engineers. their attacks also absolutely wreck your shields, they move quickly and have a crapton of armour and will probably stomp you within 2 seconds if they down you.
and Cerberus troops who can execute: Trooper, Centurian, Dragoon, Atlas, Phantom.

Dragoons replaced a huge chunk of the Guardians in the waves.

[BerzerkGene]

Anders028 wrote...

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoons don't replace phantoms, they replace engineers. their attacks also absolutely wreck your shields, they move quickly and have a crapton of armour and will probably stomp you within 2 seconds if they down you.
and Cerberus troops who can execute: Trooper, Centurian, Dragoon, Atlas, Phantom.

Dragoons replaced a huge chunk of the Guardians in the waves.

Well thats even worse, Guardians are easy and slow. Dragoons are fast, tough and pretty powerful.

[MaxShine]

objective waves are harder

[78stonewobble]

*lol* Well silver is actually even easier these days. When you end up with one guy using 4-5-6 rockets. Another using 3-4 and me using 3. Don't know about the last guy.

It's just... I kinda take pride in using a bare minimum of rockets (except for a certain portion of lazyness).

[stjabr]

Ashen Earth wrote...

That we can now carry up to 8 Cobra Missiles into a single game, instantly revive an entire squad of downed allies with one medigel, and tech combo without killing the enemy (every class in the game can do it with an ammo power now) is a testament to the fact that people will whine about any and everything.

8 Cobra Missiles requires a specific Gear, as does reviving your entire squad (a different gear, which also has limits on radius), tech combos on "every class" requires ammo consumables on most - not to mention those 8 missiles and all the extra medigel we're using are also consumables.

If these were innate abilities, and we all had infinite consumables, then yes, you'd be correct. But people are struggling to maintain even just medigels or just rockets as it is without taking 8 in at a time. And don't try to argue this with "buy JEPs" because the money we do get at the moment would be nice to spend on at least a small chance of getting new gear/characters/weapons.

Ashen Earth wrote...

The game is now easier than it ever has been. It's hard to think back to a time when shield gate was 100%, bosses didn't take headshot damage, and half a dozen weapon mods/power evolutions were broken.

Back when shield gate was 100% it was easier to stop the game turning into an all out brawl, giving us more time to take out the enemies before they closed in. We also had working shield/health gates of our own, Pyro's could still be grabbed, and if we did go down, only a few enemies could finish us off.

I see what you're getting at, because some of the changes on paper look like they should in theory have made some things easier, but playing the game proves otherwise. Guardians and bombers now appear on Wave 2 of Silver games for example - a minor point, sure, but proof that more difficult (and aggressive in that they close in on you as quickly as they can, bringing the fight with them) enemies appear sooner than they used to.

BerzerkGene wrote...

Dragoons don't replace phantoms, they replace engineers. their attacks also absolutely wreck your shields, they move quickly and have a crapton of armour and will probably stomp you within 2 seconds if they down you.
And Cerberus troops who can execute: Trooper, Centurian, Dragoon, Atlas, Phantom.

Geth bombers replace pyros. The geth who can stun/stagger: Hunter, Bomber(stun with tazer), Bomber(Stagger with grenades), Prime(stun with cannon), Combat drone(which primes spam the crap out of, to potentially be four of them at once.). The real problems with the bomber is that it is tiny, but its tougher than a pyro(no weakspot/head), has infinite grenades, an erratic flying pattern and it is completely silent. Pyros stomping i don't have a big issue with, but it does mean if you're flamed, you're basically out for the round.

Reapers are a bit harder with stomping, but the shield/healthgate issue can make a marauder take out all your shields and a bar of health with one shot on gold. And then theres my issue with banshees instakills, while
less magnet hands, if you rez yourself with medigel and a banshee charges right on top of you, she instantly kills you, there is no delay between her appearance and her attack.

Collectors...well. The multiple possessions don't help and they're naturally the toughest faction through just their health levels. Scions are...terrible, they can grab and make phantoms look like bad and weak snipers. Praetorians are actually harder than banshees, at least banshees can be slowed down, a praetorian constantly zooms at you.

Harder? Hell yes. Gold went from a regular occurance for me, difficult, but challenging. To almost bloody  impossible. Platinium went from Insanity difficulty x4 to Insanity difficulty x8. Sometimes i now lose on silver with a good team. from before where i was a killing machine that could not be stopped.

Totally agree. Have you also noticed Scions stagger with their cannon, which means even on Silver if you get hit once, there's a good chance you'll be going down, as shots seem to be timed perfectly to prevent any (repeated attempt) to get into cover, or dodge, or move. Their cluster grenades have also twice wiped out my entire squad in one hit on Silver hack objectives.

Also, not sure if lag or just a personal issue, but Geth Bombers seem to have an inconsistent ability to  evade/ignore powers. Even when they're staying still I've had plenty of time Overload has supposedly hit, but done absolutely nothing to them whatsoever. Anyone else noticed this?

Stomping is too aggressive now, I would  have thought limiting stomping ability to just the grunts would be balanced enough, possibly one other unit too. Giving Dragoons the ability to stomp just exacerbates the problem with them, very disappointed with that decision!

Modifié par stjabr, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:28 .