697 réponses à ce sujet

[SapientesGladio]

...wot

[Jaison1986]

So.. I might be mistaken, but everything seems to be back to normal, shield gate is back and enemy difficulty seems to be more balanced now.

[Clips7]

Quite simply something something is amiss....before the dlc, i was able to use a N7 slayer full fitness and health + juggernaut shield (only upgrade) and do silver with no problem....now? even with juggernaut shields,shield boost and ammo upgrades, i'm still getting cut to shreds. Something is definitely different.

I appreciate the devs coming in here and responding, but i find it puzzling they can't feel the difference. I always play silver,..before the dlc, everything felt right....it could get tough at times if you got careless, but it felt solid,..now?..even if everybody is playing decently, you can still get waxed...i don't know...maybe they can release another patch to reduce damage taken across all difficulties...because ultimately that seems to be the problem...the rate at which shields and health bars drop.

[Yriss]

Chris Schanche wrote...

As for the main thrust of the thread, I'm certainly planning to dedicate most of my weekend to multiplayer, I gots me some challenges to get, so I'll be keeping an eye out as well for odd behavior. It's certainly true that live play can find issues that testing doesn't, but that said right now I'm still pretty confident in the tests we've run, and I don't see anything that indicates that the behavior is any different then it's always been. I'm very curious to find out what it is that's causing this perception though.

It's interesting that you write about perception.

If you are absoletely SURE that there aren't any crazy corner cases where health/shield gates don't work and it's all in our perception, maybe I can see the following:

- I believe I read that with the new patch + Vanguard fix, more checks are done on the host rather than the client.
- Also with the new patch, the "death" experiece (camera, etc) is "smoother".
- In some of the posts, I believe Eric said that the graphical display of the shield and health bars aren't pinpoint accurate (that's my paraphrasing, sorry for any inaccuracies).

The combination of those factors, plus latency, can make it seem like we're "hugging the ground" more (i.e. dying). Like, the very next split second, we're already dead, whereas before, we could get away with our usual behaviour.

[Bob_Morane_1980]

I play 4 games : Reapers, Geths, Cerberus and Collectors; and now, all work normally. I was able to play my Geth Infiltrator, my Cerberus adept and my Batarian like it was before the DLC. Maybe BioWare find the problem(s).

[reaperteck]

Thank you very much Eric (and Bioware team) for explaining how it works and letting us know it's still working. We really appreciate you posting and letting us know!

[Yriss]

Clips7 wrote...

I appreciate the devs coming in here and responding, but i find it puzzling they can't feel the difference.

Maybe they've had ample time to practice and adjust before the release/patch, as opposed to us.

[SINisterSniper55]

EvanKester wrote...

.

That is not just someone having a bad day. That is not new and more aggressive enemies. That did not happen prior to the DLC.

Yes, you would be cut down quick for standing like an idiot in front of a bunch of Cannibals, but there would be two pronounced breaks in the onslaught, where the damage gates kicked in allowing you to retreat to safety. Those pauses are noticeably either absent, or too short to matter in this video.

They clearly still work against single large hits, like the blasts of an Atlas, but they are doing nothing to basic trooper level fire. This means the game is actually easier the further into a mission you get, not harder.

for anyone wondering, the shield down sound begins at 5 seconds and the health is already at 1 and a  1/4 bars. That is not any time of shield gate.... that is death gate.

[Delta_V2]

SINisterSniper55 wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

.

That is not just someone having a bad day. That is not new and more aggressive enemies. That did not happen prior to the DLC.

Yes, you would be cut down quick for standing like an idiot in front of a bunch of Cannibals, but there would be two pronounced breaks in the onslaught, where the damage gates kicked in allowing you to retreat to safety. Those pauses are noticeably either absent, or too short to matter in this video.

They clearly still work against single large hits, like the blasts of an Atlas, but they are doing nothing to basic trooper level fire. This means the game is actually easier the further into a mission you get, not harder.

for anyone wondering, the shield down sound begins at 5 seconds and the health is already at 1 and a  1/4 bars. That is not any time of shield gate.... that is death gate.

Yeah, it doesn't look like there is a 0.1 second gap anywhere in there.

Granted, 0.1 seconds isn't much of a window, and might not be very noticable.  Somebody should really try to do a test on Silver, where the gates should be 0.25 seconds, so the gaps in damage should be more noticable.  All I can say is I've played quite a few Silver games since the patch and DLC, and there have been several times where it didn't feel like there was anywhere near 0.25 seconds between getting shield-gated and getting health-gated.  I was willing to chalk up my increased medi-gel use in Gold to the new enemies, but there is no way I should be burning so many consumables in Silver.

EDIT: @ the people talking about the Brute melee.  I can confirm that Brutes have always been able to bring you down to health-gate from full shields.  I don't know why they can, but it has happened to me more times than I care to admit, and it definitely happened before the patch.

Modifié par Delta_V2, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:02 .

[Disciple888]

Gates have changed.

[Zero132132]

Delta_V2 wrote...

SINisterSniper55 wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

.

That is not just someone having a bad day. That is not new and more aggressive enemies. That did not happen prior to the DLC.

Yes, you would be cut down quick for standing like an idiot in front of a bunch of Cannibals, but there would be two pronounced breaks in the onslaught, where the damage gates kicked in allowing you to retreat to safety. Those pauses are noticeably either absent, or too short to matter in this video.

They clearly still work against single large hits, like the blasts of an Atlas, but they are doing nothing to basic trooper level fire. This means the game is actually easier the further into a mission you get, not harder.

for anyone wondering, the shield down sound begins at 5 seconds and the health is already at 1 and a  1/4 bars. That is not any time of shield gate.... that is death gate.

Yeah, it doesn't look like there is a 0.1 second gap anywhere in there.

Granted, 0.1 seconds isn't much of a window, and might not be very noticable.  Somebody should really try to do a test on Silver, where the gates should be 0.25 seconds, so the gaps in damage should be more noticable.  All I can say is I've played quite a few Silver games since the patch and DLC, and there have been several times where it didn't feel like there was anywhere near 0.25 seconds between getting shield-gated and getting health-gated.  I was willing to chalk up my increased medi-gel use in Gold to the new enemies, but there is no way I should be burning so many consumables in Silver.

EDIT: @ the people talking about the Brute melee.  I can confirm that Brutes have always been able to bring you down to health-gate from full shields.  I don't know why they can, but it has happened to me more times than I care to admit, and it definitely happened before the patch.

Are people sure that video is Gold? If it's Platinum, then the gate time is supposedly too short to probably even register. The thing is, it absolutely didn't used to be as short as they claim in the OP. Maybe there was a coding glitch that made the half second apply to all difficulties, and it was fixed, but it's definitely not the same. I just absolutely KNOW that I had enough time to use 'warp' on a turret from cover to not go from full health/shields to dead on my Asari Adept. It's different now, and anyone playing can tell. It's odd that there's no coding change that they've noticed, but something is DEFINITELY different.

With Brutes, their deal is that just touching them from the front does a lot of damage, so when they melee you, a lot of the time, you'll get melee damage, then the touch-front-of-Brute damage, so it bypasses shieldgate.

[sclera]

 I have no idea why people suddenly started whining about the fictional removal of shield gate. I never noticed it, never even considered it until I saw a million threads popping up about it. The only explanation:

http://en.wikipedia....i/Mass_hysteria 

Modifié par sclera, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:26 .

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Not sure if this has been mentioned above... But the reason this is happening is because of lag. By the time you realize your shields are down, your invulnerability is over. THAT is the real issue right there. Meaning this will only ever happen when you are not the host, which is definitely when I saw it happening.

Could it be that there is a confliction with when you register damage and when the shield gate is active? I.E. some bullets that were fired and should have done nothing because of the shield gate lag over and damage you at once because the shield gate time also lagged. Its kinda like some strange overlap occurs. I know that doesn't make much sense, but its the only reasonable explanation I can see for this issue with rapid-fire weapons.

Point being, if you're not the host, any lag AT ALL renders the invulnerability period useless on anything but Bronze.

Modifié par Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:41 .

[Chaoswind]

sareth_65536 wrote...

JSLfromBx wrote...

I know what happened Mr Fragman, please hear me out.

I think the problem is not how the shield gates works nows, the problem is how the gates worked BEFORE the patch.

You say that gold gates only last 0.1 sec and yet everyone who played the game extensively saw the gates in actions and 0.1 s is just too short a time for the human brain to notice, furthermore, I don't remember anyone ever noticing a different behavior betwen the gates on bronze and gold.

My theory is this:  BEFORE the patch, the gates were actually buged, bronze, silver and gold, all setting had a gates lasting 0.5 sec of invulnerability and that's the way we played the game for 6 month. Apparently someone fixed it the the changed somehow sneaked past your own internal documentation of changes.

It explain everything very clearly ,that's why your data say the gates are working fine while every player tell you something changed drastically, well going from 0;5 sec of invulnerability to 0.1 sec certainly makes a tons of different versus ennemies with auto weapon.

If anyone else feel my theory is correct, please do quote me to bring it to Mr Fragman attention, I am sure he has means of testing the old buid of the game on an internal server. And then we can get the final word on this.

1000x this

is what I thought as well

Dead camara is fixed = Shield gating was fixed to the real values it should had

can we get the half a second delay back? I settle for 0.25

[Kristen Schanche]

I've been playing all evening with a number of people, and I'm just not feeling the difference. I'll still be keeping an eye on it, and I will try to run some more tests when I get back into the office on Monday. But we havn't changed anything, there hasn't been a stealth hotfix, and Eric and I have been pretty through in testing the shield and health gate timers.

I spent part of my afternoon going through and stepping back patches one at a time and running time checks, and the gates are giving their expected duration every time. I'm not closed to the idea that there could be an edge case here or certain conditions that cause this, but so far we havn't found it. And I would hope it goes without saying that we have no reason to lie about this. If there's an issue here and we find it, we'll be up front about it.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Chris Schanche wrote...

I've been playing all evening with a number of people, and I'm just not feeling the difference. I'll still be keeping an eye on it, and I will try to run some more tests when I get back into the office on Monday. But we havn't changed anything, there hasn't been a stealth hotfix, and Eric and I have been pretty through in testing the shield and health gate timers.

I spent part of my afternoon going through and stepping back patches one at a time and running time checks, and the gates are giving their expected duration every time. I'm not closed to the idea that there could be an edge case here or certain conditions that cause this, but so far we havn't found it. And I would hope it goes without saying that we have no reason to lie about this. If there's an issue here and we find it, we'll be up front about it.

Are you playing with perfect connections though? Thats the issue. Any sort of lag renders the invulnerability useless.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Thank you for the updates. We will continue look into things on our end as well!

[Kristen Schanche]

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

I've been playing all evening with a number of people, and I'm just not feeling the difference. I'll still be keeping an eye on it, and I will try to run some more tests when I get back into the office on Monday. But we havn't changed anything, there hasn't been a stealth hotfix, and Eric and I have been pretty through in testing the shield and health gate timers.

I spent part of my afternoon going through and stepping back patches one at a time and running time checks, and the gates are giving their expected duration every time. I'm not closed to the idea that there could be an edge case here or certain conditions that cause this, but so far we havn't found it. And I would hope it goes without saying that we have no reason to lie about this. If there's an issue here and we find it, we'll be up front about it.

Are you playing with perfect connections though? Thats the issue. Any sort of lag renders the invulnerability useless.

A very large number of the callouts both in this thread and on the forums are claiming these issues with Host as well.  I'm using my home connection to play at the moment though, standard cable package, so not overly remarkable in either direction.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

I've been playing all evening with a number of people, and I'm just not feeling the difference. I'll still be keeping an eye on it, and I will try to run some more tests when I get back into the office on Monday. But we havn't changed anything, there hasn't been a stealth hotfix, and Eric and I have been pretty through in testing the shield and health gate timers.

I spent part of my afternoon going through and stepping back patches one at a time and running time checks, and the gates are giving their expected duration every time. I'm not closed to the idea that there could be an edge case here or certain conditions that cause this, but so far we havn't found it. And I would hope it goes without saying that we have no reason to lie about this. If there's an issue here and we find it, we'll be up front about it.

Are you playing with perfect connections though? Thats the issue. Any sort of lag renders the invulnerability useless.

A very large number of the callouts both in this thread and on the forums are claiming these issues with Host as well.  I'm using my home connection to play at the moment though, standard cable package, so not overly remarkable in either direction.

I defenitely noticed the Shield gate when I was the host. When I wasn't, though, it was almost like it didn't exist. I just had a few friends today in my game (It was their first time playing in over a month) and right off the bat they got pretty ticked at how fast they died on Silver.

Also, I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. More or less I'm looking for clarification.

Modifié par Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:55 .

[Fox-snipe]

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Are you playing with perfect connections though? Thats the issue. Any sort of lag renders the invulnerability useless.

Test labs can simulate latency.  Not perfect to what you'd see in the real world but close enough.

Going back to your previous post about lag being the primary cause, that doesn't explain videos like this where the player is hosting a solo match.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Doctor Derp wrote...

Fox-snipe wrote...

Doctor Derp wrote...

Now I'm having trouble understanding the idea behind the health gate. If enemies are going to do that much excess damage, what's the point of one character having more health than another? Even if the health gate is working properly both a krogan and a volus will walk out of a no-shield situation with the same result: Down to it's final health bar. The only way there would be a difference is if enemies weren't doing the amount of damage they currently are, or if there were multiple health gates, one per certain amount of health. Which from my understanding there is only one.

Health gate is (was) the "equalizer" we had against the enemies (we both had Shield gate, though it functioned a bit differently).  Reason probably being enemies are more powerful and more numerous but we can't simply be dying all the time, that defeats the point of playing the game.

The differences in health (and shields) is what determines what each character is capable of doing before needing to stop and find cover for shields to recharge.  A Krogan is near the top so they can continue fighting for a longer period of time before needing to stop and take a breather.  Volus & Geth (less shields due to Hunter Mode and very little health) cannot do as much before needing to hide.

This primarily works in our favor against foot soldiers who need to weaken us before we go down.  Bosses are pretty much capable of downing us quickly due to high damage, though they still need to break each gate (unless the peons do their jobs and weaken us first).  This isn't counting sync-kills.

The gates also allowed enemies to be buffed and become more powerful yet still providing us a means to survive the onslaught and fight back (provided we were fighting smart).

You are correct. But the problem is this "extra health" some characters get is very quickly destroyed and is impossible to be regenerated other than bloodlust, ops packs, and the round ending heal. So because of the crazy damage enemies are doing, both a krogan and volus will hit the same health gate and will be relying on that rather than the health points themselves. So either there's supposed more health gates based on the amount of health you have, each with a very brief period of invulnurability, (which would both limit the high damage single attacks and the rapid fire weaker attacks while allowing bulkier classes to regen more health) or there's absolutely no point to health not completely regenerating like shields. (Other than "lore").

Just a thought.

This. If it weren't for the shield boosts, Fitness would be a fool's gambit.

[parico]

Chris Schanche wrote...

I've been playing all evening with a number of people, and I'm just not feeling the difference. I'll still be keeping an eye on it, and I will try to run some more tests when I get back into the office on Monday. But we havn't changed anything, there hasn't been a stealth hotfix, and Eric and I have been pretty through in testing the shield and health gate timers.

I spent part of my afternoon going through and stepping back patches one at a time and running time checks, and the gates are giving their expected duration every time. I'm not closed to the idea that there could be an edge case here or certain conditions that cause this, but so far we havn't found it. And I would hope it goes without saying that we have no reason to lie about this. If there's an issue here and we find it, we'll be up front about it.

Somethings different about the game.   I was just one shot killed by a ravager on gold with full shields and health on the London map with a cyclonic 4 equipped.  I was host so lag wasn't the problem our entire team was dropping quickly.   Good to see you guys are working on it.  With all the threads about it hopefully the problem will be found and fixed soon.   

[Loscakes]

It may be the gates, it may not, but something is up. We did not suddenly become bad overnight.

[ParanoidDrone]

A thought that just occurred to me: What if something in the code is causing the gates to only function properly for the unit that hit it in the first place? If multiple enemies are firing on you at once but each gate only applies to one of them, then the rest would be free to cut you down that much quicker.

Has anyone done some testing, preferably with video, against a lone enemy? I really don't want to read 11 pages of 25 replies each if I can help it.

[Xaijin]

They aren't working correctly at all on a consistent basis. There's no shield gate noise or associated FX, the attack literally starts eating in to your health.

The health gate is gone completely in most instances, and this is visually verifiable.

Use a glass cannon build like GI 4/6/6/6/4 against say four gold marauders, it'll be readily and repeatedly verifiable.

We're not making it up.

While getting my solo medal on giant platinum with turian sent and all three krogans, it happened over and over and over.

I even reintsalled just to make sure.

Something is rotten in Gatemark.

Modifié par Xaijin, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:20 .