697 réponses à ce sujet

[Captain Funky Blimp]

Played all night and noticed the insta-death phenomenon over and over and over and over and over with all kinds of characters, builds, and equipment.

I assure you this is not the result of some sort of indoctrination.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Xaijin wrote...

They aren't working correctly at all on a consistent basis. There's no shield noise or associated FX, the attack literally stats eating in to your health.

The health gate is gone completely in most instances, and this is visually verifiable.

Use a glass cannon build like GI 4/6/6/6/4 against say four gold marauders, it'll be readily and repeatedly verifiable.

We're not making it up.

Should have seen how fast my Destroyer went down ON SILVER with maxed out shields and health... It was stupid...

[JaimasOfRaxis]

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

They aren't working correctly at all on a consistent basis. There's no shield noise or associated FX, the attack literally stats eating in to your health.

The health gate is gone completely in most instances, and this is visually verifiable.

Use a glass cannon build like GI 4/6/6/6/4 against say four gold marauders, it'll be readily and repeatedly verifiable.

We're not making it up.

Should have seen how fast my Destroyer went down ON SILVER with maxed out shields and health... It was stupid...

2 Cannibals = Instant Death.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

They aren't working correctly at all on a consistent basis. There's no shield noise or associated FX, the attack literally stats eating in to your health.

The health gate is gone completely in most instances, and this is visually verifiable.

Use a glass cannon build like GI 4/6/6/6/4 against say four gold marauders, it'll be readily and repeatedly verifiable.

We're not making it up.

Should have seen how fast my Destroyer went down ON SILVER with maxed out shields and health... It was stupid...

2 Cannibals = Instant Death.

More like Marauders now carry around Harriers with Damage + Capacity.

Modifié par Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:28 .

[Xaijin]

What should be done is a completely agnostic off system test, with no associated tools or set ups. Basically as a consumer would have.

[Shep3845]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

A thought that just occurred to me: What if something in the code is causing the gates to only function properly for the unit that hit it in the first place? If multiple enemies are firing on you at once but each gate only applies to one of them, then the rest would be free to cut you down that much quicker.

Has anyone done some testing, preferably with video, against a lone enemy? I really don't want to read 11 pages of 25 replies each if I can help it.

i think this guy is on to something. A lot of these incidents involve multiple shooters in my case.

[AbhijitSM]

Its good to see an explanation and all...but something is off definitely. My squishy classes which i played earlier seem to die a lot more than before now. And yes i can visually see that the shield does not go down to the gate but directly starts affecting my health.

[Xerorei]

What if it's not the gates, what if it's the steady buffing of the enemies?
I can't be the only one noticing enemies hitting me harder with the same builds I ran platinum with just a month ago.

[ParanoidDrone]

Shep3845 wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

A thought that just occurred to me: What if something in the code is causing the gates to only function properly for the unit that hit it in the first place? If multiple enemies are firing on you at once but each gate only applies to one of them, then the rest would be free to cut you down that much quicker.

Has anyone done some testing, preferably with video, against a lone enemy? I really don't want to read 11 pages of 25 replies each if I can help it.

i think this guy is on to something. A lot of these incidents involve multiple shooters in my case.

I ended up reading all the replies anyway and it turns out that I wasn't the first to suggest this, but at the same time none of the developer posts have confirmed or denied this theory.

With this in mind, can someone record a test case of themselves vs. a lone cannon fodder enemy to see if the weirdness persists in that case?  Bonus points for testing multiple difficulties so we can also check if the gate durations seem to hold as well.

Modifié par ParanoidDrone, 13 octobre 2012 - 06:46 .

[koschwarz74]

Its funny that some player acts like everything is right when it is not. It seems some of the "lucky" minority consider the majority being nob. I literally begin to hate these players, BSNers... I have no idea about the nature of this issue but it EXISTS. There is no sense in denying it.
Anyway i appreciate the devs' effort.
I think if they can't find the source of the problem, enemy nerf will be necessary in order to maintain the player base.
Jeez yesterday after the 15th unsuccesful gold game when the team was swiped completely i thought i go back to that miserable battlefield play4free...

[Clivemax69]

There have definitely been instances where I die a lot quicker than I normally would. I usually have enough time after the initial recognition that I'm getting shot at to attempt a dodge, but I've died before I can even hit the space bar. The problem is that it hasn't been consistent. In the same game I had both the presence of shield gate and going down before I hit the space bar. A lot of people have good ideas here, but I haven't encountered any sort of consistency to form a proper hypothesis on the situation.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

koschwarz74 wrote...

Its funny that some player acts like everything is right when it is not. It seems some of the "lucky" minority consider the majority being nob. I literally begin to hate these players, BSNers... I have no idea about the nature of this issue but it EXISTS. There is no sense in denying it.
Anyway i appreciate the devs' effort.
I think if they can't find the source of the problem, enemy nerf will be necessary in order to maintain the player base.
Jeez yesterday after the 15th unsuccesful gold game when the team was swiped completely i thought i go back to that miserable battlefield play4free...

Its like asking peole to understand something they haven't been through, they can't.

Oh, wait, but this is a video game. In that case its just pure ignorance. Since they haven't experienced it, it can't possibly be true. Very narrow view of the world...

[koschwarz74]

and one more thing: i think this issue came up with the patch, the new type of enemies and the pretty hard new collector faction just made ir even worse.

[Clips7]

It's too many folks complaining for it not to be an issue..Silver is substantially harder now. Leaning out of cover on minor enemies will suck your health in a heartbeat. Some folks are saying it's lag, but i don't think it is...confronting lesser enemies on Silver is a stiff challenge right now. Full health and shields and enemies are ripping right through it.

[Fox-snipe]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

Shep3845 wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

A thought that just occurred to me: What if something in the code is causing the gates to only function properly for the unit that hit it in the first place? If multiple enemies are firing on you at once but each gate only applies to one of them, then the rest would be free to cut you down that much quicker.

Has anyone done some testing, preferably with video, against a lone enemy? I really don't want to read 11 pages of 25 replies each if I can help it.

i think this guy is on to something. A lot of these incidents involve multiple shooters in my case.

I ended up reading all the replies anyway and it turns out that I wasn't the first to suggest this, but at the same time none of the developer posts have confirmed or denied this theory.

With this in mind, can someone record a test case of themselves vs. a lone cannon fodder enemy to see if the weirdness persists in that case?  Bonus points for testing multiple difficulties so we can also check if the gate durations seem to hold as well.

UpirNoir made a video that has two Cannibals but he's only shot at by one when he breaches Shieldgate.  The second Cannibal doesn't even start attacking until he's practically dead.  Not exactly what you're asking about but pretty close.  The two gates should be functioning in the same way.

[Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd]

Fox-snipe wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

Shep3845 wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

A thought that just occurred to me: What if something in the code is causing the gates to only function properly for the unit that hit it in the first place? If multiple enemies are firing on you at once but each gate only applies to one of them, then the rest would be free to cut you down that much quicker.

Has anyone done some testing, preferably with video, against a lone enemy? I really don't want to read 11 pages of 25 replies each if I can help it.

i think this guy is on to something. A lot of these incidents involve multiple shooters in my case.

I ended up reading all the replies anyway and it turns out that I wasn't the first to suggest this, but at the same time none of the developer posts have confirmed or denied this theory.

With this in mind, can someone record a test case of themselves vs. a lone cannon fodder enemy to see if the weirdness persists in that case?  Bonus points for testing multiple difficulties so we can also check if the gate durations seem to hold as well.

UpirNoir made a video that has two Cannibals but he's only shot at by one when he breaches Shieldgate.  The second Cannibal doesn't even start attacking until he's practically dead.  Not exactly what you're asking about but pretty close.  The two gates should be functioning in the same way.

Now make it so they're both firing at him with his shield up...

[ParanoidDrone]

Fox-snipe wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

Shep3845 wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

A thought that just occurred to me: What if something in the code is causing the gates to only function properly for the unit that hit it in the first place? If multiple enemies are firing on you at once but each gate only applies to one of them, then the rest would be free to cut you down that much quicker.

Has anyone done some testing, preferably with video, against a lone enemy? I really don't want to read 11 pages of 25 replies each if I can help it.

i think this guy is on to something. A lot of these incidents involve multiple shooters in my case.

I ended up reading all the replies anyway and it turns out that I wasn't the first to suggest this, but at the same time none of the developer posts have confirmed or denied this theory.

With this in mind, can someone record a test case of themselves vs. a lone cannon fodder enemy to see if the weirdness persists in that case?  Bonus points for testing multiple difficulties so we can also check if the gate durations seem to hold as well.

UpirNoir made a video that has two Cannibals but he's only shot at by one when he breaches Shieldgate.  The second Cannibal doesn't even start attacking until he's practically dead.  Not exactly what you're asking about but pretty close.  The two gates should be functioning in the same way.

Thank you for the link.  It certainly debunks my theory as the sole cause, although it may or may not still apply in the case of multiple enemies firing at once.

The problem right now is determining a possible cause that satisfies the three video cases I've seen:
-Cannibal swarm
-(Mostly) lone Cannibal
-Brute

In all cases there was no evident shield gating in effect, and in the two Cannibal cases there was no evident health gate either.  The Brute hit the health gate properly.  We know that with a few exceptions, once a character hits shield/health gate, the rest of the damage from that specific source should be negated and the character should be briefly immune to further damage, with the time decreasing as one increases the difficulty.

For a simple proof of concept (or disproval, in this case), perhaps we should be testing on Bronze?  That's where we would find the longest durations of invincibility, which would help the most for the purposes of simply testing whether or not the gates are functioning properly in the first place.

I must be tired, I don't usually run off at the mouth like this.

[Fox-snipe]

The only possible issue I see with testing on Bronze (in terms of a single enemy) is an enemy isn't going to do as much damage.  Gold Cannibals for example do just shy of double the damage (see here).  This will slow the time it takes to get someone to their gates and it might not be as useful an observation.  Not that it can't/shouldn't still be done if only as another data point to initially consider.

I think a more useful test, if only to confirm the actual gating mechanics are working correctly, is to increase the period of invulnerability for Gold to something more easily measured (0.5-1.0s) and see what happens.  Doubt we'll get that pushed to public games, and it's possible Bioware has already perform such a test (one would think they wouldn't really need to since they have raw access to the game data and can grab the metrics live).  Still, would be interesting to see what would happen "in the wild."

Would probably just raise more questions though.

Modifié par Fox-snipe, 13 octobre 2012 - 07:32 .

[Moonwish]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Mabari Owns High Dragon The 2nd wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

I've been playing all evening with a number of people, and I'm just not feeling the difference. I'll still be keeping an eye on it, and I will try to run some more tests when I get back into the office on Monday. But we havn't changed anything, there hasn't been a stealth hotfix, and Eric and I have been pretty through in testing the shield and health gate timers.

I spent part of my afternoon going through and stepping back patches one at a time and running time checks, and the gates are giving their expected duration every time. I'm not closed to the idea that there could be an edge case here or certain conditions that cause this, but so far we havn't found it. And I would hope it goes without saying that we have no reason to lie about this. If there's an issue here and we find it, we'll be up front about it.

Are you playing with perfect connections though? Thats the issue. Any sort of lag renders the invulnerability useless.

A very large number of the callouts both in this thread and on the forums are claiming these issues with Host as well.  I'm using my home connection to play at the moment though, standard cable package, so not overly remarkable in either direction.

Do you play with the same game version? I mean there is a collectors edition, a simple, a digital version. Aren't there a "developer" version of the game, which you use even at home? Can you try simply downloading the commercial version of the game, or installing it from a commercial Dvd?

[ParanoidDrone]

Fox-snipe wrote...

The only possible issue I see with testing on Bronze (in terms of a single enemy) is an enemy isn't going to do as much damage.  Gold Cannibals for example do just shy of double the damage (see here).  This will slow the time it takes to get someone to their gates and it might not be as useful an observation.  Not that it can't/shouldn't still be done if only as another data point to initially consider.

I think a more useful test, if only to confirm the actual gating mechanics are working correctly, is to increase the period of invulnerability for Gold to something more easily measured (0.5-1.0s) and see what happens.  Doubt we'll get that pushed to public games, and it's possible Bioware has already perform such a test (one would think they wouldn't really need to since they have raw access to the game data and can grab the metrics live).  Still, would be interesting to see what would happen "in the wild."

Would probably just raise more questions though.

I realized that fairly quickly, but I went ahead with it anyway FOR SCIENCE and all that jazz.  Here's the link.

[EDIT:  I just realized that I derped hard and forgot to chop off the blankness at the end when splicing it all together.  Oh well.]

I used a Human Male Infiltrator with 0 points in Fitness and no consumables or gear, so I had 500/500 shields/health.  I started a private lobby for Glacier/Reapers/Bronze and killed Cannibals in the first wave until the announcer said there was only one left.  I then stood in the open and let it shoot me to death.

It's late here and I'm too tired to analyze my own data (pitiful, I know), but it's there for others to take a look at.

Modifié par ParanoidDrone, 13 octobre 2012 - 08:15 .

[Uh Cold]

The shield gates are not working, I can confirm this in gold and platinum playing many games and having many situations I've literally never dealt with before.
Turrets instant downing when looking out of cover for 1 second is the most frustrating one.

I know the games mechanics from a lot of play time and I can honestly say something is wrong with the shield / health gate since the dlc was released.

[Xeonzs]

This whole topic explains to me why I feel that silver is much more difficult now and same for gold, gold used to be my standard for PUGs but I went back to silver.

[spudspot]

Hey Eric and Chris, thanks for the clarification!

I'm still sceptical about everything working properly - or as it has always been. One reason is that it was already stated by Eric that our player shieldgates work based on time and that quick bursts won't do it.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

Our shield and health gates are duration based, so a quick burst wouldn't do it. We would have to have really slow bursts, which wouldn't really work for those enemies.

This is from the balance change thread on July 4. I just wonder how a 0.1s (Gold) delay on shields and health fits that description of a quick burst not taking you down. Note that most enemy units with automatic fire have a burst duration that is longer than those 0.1 seconds. This explains the video with the three cannibals taking down that poor Ghost in less than a second as well.

That practically means that two enemies shooting you at the same time will take many classes down to healthgate - if not below that - within their burst duration. (Which can be seen in the abovementioned video)

I just can't believe it has always been that way, to be precise that the gate duration was always so small. I mean on Platinum both gates will effectively reduce the number of shots that do damage to you by two. They offer no chance to walk away or get out of a sticky situation. It is pretty much the same on Gold. Take a Marauder for example, his RoF is 600rpm so the gap between two shots will be 0.1s. 

Modifié par spudspot, 13 octobre 2012 - 09:21 .

[Aaron360]

While I won't belittle comments from the developers themselves saying as of right now they haven't found anything wrong, there's just 2 many of us dropping like flies from mooks when, for the last 7 months, that did not happen. I have almost 700 hrs of playtime and this only started with last weeks dlc, it is NOT in my head, myself and everyone around me dropping almost instantly is not our imagination. And like Uh Cold said above me, turrets were a pain in the ass before, but now? They are laughably unbalanced. After hearing others saying even silver was tougher, I took my lvl 20 destroyer and ran a few solo rds, I don't think I ever went down using him when soling silver, but now his health and shields are depleted as if I didn't have devastator mode enabled and was some squishy asari. In the past, silver was fun and very stress free, especially after gold/platinum runs, but something is definitely wrong when I have to use a few consumables.

[aeryk117]

Could it be that shield/health gate are fine, but the AI's ability to focus fire has been improved?