697 réponses à ce sujet

[UpirNoir]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

I realized that fairly quickly, but I went ahead with it anyway FOR SCIENCE and all that jazz.  Here's the link.

[EDIT:  I just realized that I derped hard and forgot to chop off the blankness at the end when splicing it all together.  Oh well.]

I used a Human Male Infiltrator with 0 points in Fitness and no consumables or gear, so I had 500/500 shields/health.  I started a private lobby for Glacier/Reapers/Bronze and killed Cannibals in the first wave until the announcer said there was only one left.  I then stood in the open and let it shoot me to death.

It's late here and I'm too tired to analyze my own data (pitiful, I know), but it's there for others to take a look at.

Upon looking at it a few times it seems like the following to me:

- First test: Shield Gate seems to trigger, Health Gate seems to trigger
- Second test: Shield Gate doesn't trigger (Remember it is supposed to be half a second on bronze), Health Gate can't be said due to the Cannibal's shooting pause
- Third test: Kind of hard to tell due to the firing sequence of the Cannibal, but Shield Gate might be ok, Health Gate doesn't seem to trigger

You can clearly see the differenc in test one and two. Both times the Shield gets broken in the middle of a salvo of the Cannibal: The first time, the rest of the Salvo gets blocked, the second time the rest of the salvo takes away health.

Also, what has been observed and mentioned by others before, I too have noticed that recently I died quite often without any notification in the Kill feed. No "...commited suicide" and no "...was taken down by...". Nothing at all.

Modifié par UpirNoir, 13 octobre 2012 - 03:09 .

[cgj]

GordianKnot42 wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

How do you explain this vid?

If you look closely there is absolutely no period of invulnerability from either health or shield gate and his health is already below half while he has a sliver of shields.

Does that mechanic only protect against one hit kills from massive damage single shot attacks or something?

Wow. Great example.

this video is still being used ? really ? time to wake up
there is absolutely nothing wrong in this video,  and not anything different than before patch/DLC

[PyroByte]

Maybe not the shield gate is at fault but something else. Just had a game in which a scion removed my shields and I got literally sniped by a collector captain. I had full health but he took me down with one shot. I just dropped dead instantly without even a chance to react.

Other weird stuff happening: While in the control tower on firebase dagger my shields got drained by a praetorian from undereneath it.

[sareth_65536]

so wait... Are you saying that a gold marauder has always could take 0 fitness character down by a single burst? I guess this applies to 3-4 fitness too, since the difference is small and I was downed not by the entire burst.
I can't remeber dying like that. Can someone? Is it just my bad memory?


Edit:

PyroByte wrote...
 Just had a game in which a scion removed my shields and I got literally sniped by a collector captain. I had full health but he took me down with one shot. I just dropped dead instantly without even a chance to react.

wow, I thought I'm the only one who had this happening. A bit weird.
And it always a collector captain for some reason. I can't remeber this happening with any other enemy

Modifié par sareth_65536, 13 octobre 2012 - 02:56 .

[DimJinY]

I don't know if it's problems with health/shield gates or not, but something really go wrong. I'm dying a lot more than usual on the same enemy type and the same kit. And main problem that it is happen suddenly in front of one or two troopers, or when I'am already in cover\\round the corner etc.
It looks like all enemy units now use AP mods ans shoot through walls!

Other people have also been saying about mysterious deaths, even during beeing host.

[RNG God]

On gold, before the DLC, medigel usage was a rarity.
After the DLC, I'm using 3-5 per match.
I tend to get killed more by troopers than anything else.
Also, medigel doesn't seem to protect you as much as it did.

Finally, as a Krogan VG, my shields seem to be able to take much more damage than my health despite both having the same values. On gold, I can take 3-4 Prime shots before hitting the shield gate. The next shot takes all of my health and hits health-gate instantly.

[Riot Inducer]

So I've no had any issues with shield gate not working but something's definetly wonky with health gate.

Yesterday on gold I was on my Turian Sentinel vs Cerberus on FBW. It was an early wave and I was clearing off the landing pad there was one nemesis and one centurion left on the pad. I got hit by the nemesis dropping my shields and then got hit by a couple of potshots from the centurion dropping me to 3 bars of health before I killed him. But before I could get to cover the nemesis shot me again downing me even though I had 3 bars of health and such the shot should have hit the health gate.

I'm not one for complaining about this stuff normally but there was nothing else in this situation that could have hit me and bypassed the health gate so something is really fishy there.

[N7-RedFox]

I'm not convinced the problem is down to shieldgate as much as it is about Enemy ROF increases. Simply put, Primes and Atlas' now have a faster rate of fire and their shots are extra deadly. On a gold match I was solo'ing I managed to get myself knocked down by misjudging my escape route after hacking a device.

The two Primes and their 2 turrets and their 2 drones gunned me down so I pressed medigel to get back up and run. But during the animation where my Turian ghost was getting back on his feet, I was being pelted by prime's cannon fire. To my utter disgust I did not stand up with full health after using gel. I got back up with one tiny bit of red health bar. Which signifies that primes can hurt you during the animation before u are able to move.

Then of course I immediately got shot back down because double cannon fire and 2 drones = 8 potential stunlocks in a row. Now with extra RoF.

[taplonaplo]

I don't see anything in the videos that looked different from what i always had when playing solo. At that range with 3+ troopers it was always an instant death sentence with anything but a kroguard.

[Anagorrax]

CaptainTeabag wrote...

I'm not convinced the problem is down to shieldgate as much as it is about Enemy ROF increases. Simply put, Primes and Atlas' now have a faster rate of fire and their shots are extra deadly. On a gold match I was solo'ing I managed to get myself knocked down by misjudging my escape route after hacking a device.

The two Primes and their 2 turrets and their 2 drones gunned me down so I pressed medigel to get back up and run. But during the animation where my Turian ghost was getting back on his feet, I was being pelted by prime's cannon fire. To my utter disgust I did not stand up with full health after using gel. I got back up with one tiny bit of red health bar. Which signifies that primes can hurt you during the animation before u are able to move.

Then of course I immediately got shot back down because double cannon fire and 2 drones = 8 potential stunlocks in a row. Now with extra RoF.

Bosses I can understand, its the basic mooks who are the ones kicking peoples butts. Sure I get that if you get inh the way of a boss and aren't paying attention you get whacked, its the random mooks that you missed that are somehow dropping people from nowhere.

[Bone3ater]

Eric Fagnan wrote...

We've looked through basically all the code and data changes over the past couple months and we can't find any unintended changes that would account for the game feeling more difficult, other than the obvious ones listed in the patch notes and all the new content. None of the enemy weapons, firing behavior, AI, or damage systems have been changed other than what was listed in the patch notes.

Ouch. I guess my perception was indeed off

Anyway, thank you guys for looking into it so thoroughly.

Edit: Regardless of that, silver still feels like gold. I just can't comprehend how our entire team gets destroyed on silver. I just can't. We were playing regularly all the time, no downtime. Something still feels really, really, really weird and broken. And every friend I asked feels the same way.

Consumable consumption is through the roof, and people are dropping like flies. I still can't comprehend it.

Modifié par Bone3ater, 13 octobre 2012 - 07:13 .

[Chaoswind]

I still think this is related to the dead camara fix (about playing the whole animation)

[sareth_65536]

taplonaplo wrote...

I don't see anything in the videos that looked different from what i always had when playing solo. At that range with 3+ troopers it was always an instant death sentence with anything but a kroguard.

Maybe you will remember. Could 1 marauder take you down by a full single burst from full shields and 1 health bar?

[Riot Inducer]

taplonaplo wrote...

I don't see anything in the videos that looked different from what i always had when playing solo. At that range with 3+ troopers it was always an instant death sentence with anything but a kroguard.

I agree, the gates were never supposed to offer protection from rapid fire enemies. On gold anything will less than 600rpm rate of fire will just go around the gates as it will active reducing damage from one shot but expiring before the next shot hits. Anything 600rpm or above will have 1-2 shots nullfied but the rest of the burst will still do damage.

The thing gates are supposed to help with is high damage low rate of fire attacks like the nemesis, which is why I posted my experience with them as they are something that should be easily observable as being affected by the gates.

[Chaoswind]

Riot Inducer wrote...

taplonaplo wrote...

I don't see anything in the videos that looked different from what i always had when playing solo. At that range with 3+ troopers it was always an instant death sentence with anything but a kroguard.

I agree, the gates were never supposed to offer protection from rapid fire enemies. On gold anything will less than 600rpm rate of fire will just go around the gates as it will active reducing damage from one shot but expiring before the next shot hits. Anything 600rpm or above will have 1-2 shots nullfied but the rest of the burst will still do damage.

The thing gates are supposed to help with is high damage low rate of fire attacks like the nemesis, which is why I posted my experience with them as they are something that should be easily observable as being affected by the gates.

Then maybe is the enemy accuracy that got buffed, because YES marauders have always been killers, but by using old techniques like strafing you hardly ever got a full burst on your belly.


en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafing_%28gaming%29




What is player is doing feels like impossible right now, so something must have changed

www.youtube.com/watch

[Trogdorx]

Call me crazy but does anyone else remember a 'gate cooldown' effect before the patch? I don't.. From what I remember every time your shield went down, you had that invulnerability pause. But maybe I'm misremembering, it gets harder to recall what was with each passing day. I haven't gotten my kroguard back up to level 20 yet, but I know I used to tank 2 geth primes and some mooks for a good long time on gold pre-patch. I don't know if this will still be possible now that the bomber exists, but I'll try to get some tanking situations where no bombers are involved and see if I can still tank the other units as well as I used to.

But.. maybe we're looking at this the wrong way. Maybe we should be less concerned with whether or not there's a bug and just look at success/failure statistics. I think most players will agree that for some reason, they're dying more easily now, which means something should be done to either increase the health/shield of all players, or reduce enemy damage on all difficulties, or something.

Edit: Is it possible that before the patch, it was doing something like using the shield gate durations from easier difficulties on all difficulties? .1 seconds seems a little shorter than I remember on Gold..

Modifié par Trogdorx, 13 octobre 2012 - 04:16 .

[Relix28]

This supposed health/shield gate issue reminds me of the "broken" Phoenix Fitness tree. Everyone on the forums was convinced that the fitness tree was not working. Emperical testing showed otherwise.

I would like to thank Eric and the rest of the mp team for taking the time and looking into the supposed issue.

[LuckyBullet95]

E71 wrote...

Is there even a point to 0.01 seconds? I mean, come on...

The gate is there to prevent one shot kills from occuring from EVERY enemy.

[GordianKnot42]

cgj wrote...

GordianKnot42 wrote...

ZombieGambit wrote...

How do you explain this vid?

If you look closely there is absolutely no period of invulnerability from either health or shield gate and his health is already below half while he has a sliver of shields.

Does that mechanic only protect against one hit kills from massive damage single shot attacks or something?

Wow. Great example.

this video is still being used ? really ? time to wake up
there is absolutely nothing wrong in this video,  and not anything different than before patch/DLC

Im a little late to the discussion but you don't have to be rude about it.

I just started researching this after seeing my extraction rates go from like 90% drop to more like 60%. And that's only after using all my medkits and ops kits, which I never had to do before. (This is on Silver.) Something is clearly different.

(Aapologies for any typos. My phone text box won't show me what I'm writing...)

[UpirNoir]

cgj wrote...

this video is still being used ? really ? time to wake up
there is absolutely nothing wrong in this video,  and not anything different than before patch/DLC

I just seems inconsistent. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. And look at the Bronze test video. The first test seems fine but the second test, there doesn't seem to be a shieldgate trigger. On bronze it is supposed to be .5 seconds. You are not going to tell me there is half a second between the shield braking and the health being reduced are you ?

Maybe I am seeing ghosts and the issue is something else. But people are dying faster than before and simple mooks take you out in no time whatsoever now.

Modifié par UpirNoir, 13 octobre 2012 - 04:29 .

[MattLeft99]

I played a silver match vs. Cerberus, yesterday, and what was noticeable was the number of times (4) I got blasted out of nowhere by an Assault Trooper's grenade suddenly blowing up at my feet. I'm an experienced player, and we all know how grenades work, how the indicator looks, how to avoid them (except those annoying times when you run 30 feet to avoid one, and SUPRISE! you just ran right on top of it!). Yesterday seemed different. Maybe I was distracted, but is it possible some of the problem is stealth grenades? The red blinky indicator not showing up? All you see visually is your character dropping and the kill-feed saying who killed you, but not with what.

Dunno, will pay attention a bit more today.

[Big Bad]

For what it's worth, I definitely noticed something being off when playing on Thursday, but last night, on gold at least, it seemed more-or-less normal again. Not sure what to make of that.

[Reizo Ryuu]

check this video:

@ 2m50s you can clearly hear the shield breaking and a fraction later he's dead, on gold...before the dlc...and before the patch.

[STedy]

UpirNoir wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

I realized that fairly quickly, but I went ahead with it anyway FOR SCIENCE and all that jazz.  Here's the link.

[EDIT:  I just realized that I derped hard and forgot to chop off the blankness at the end when splicing it all together.  Oh well.]

I used a Human Male Infiltrator with 0 points in Fitness and no consumables or gear, so I had 500/500 shields/health.  I started a private lobby for Glacier/Reapers/Bronze and killed Cannibals in the first wave until the announcer said there was only one left.  I then stood in the open and let it shoot me to death.

It's late here and I'm too tired to analyze my own data (pitiful, I know), but it's there for others to take a look at.

Upon looking at it a few times it seems like the following to me:

- First test: Shield Gate seems to trigger, Health Gate seems to trigger
- Second test: Shield Gate doesn't trigger (Remember it is supposed to be half a second on bronze), Health Gate can't be said due to the Cannibal's shooting pause
- Third test: Kind of hard to tell due to the firing sequence of the Cannibal, but Shield Gate might be ok, Health Gate doesn't seem to trigger

You can clearly see the differenc in test one and two. Both times the Shield gets broken in the middle of a salvo of the Cannibal: The first time, the rest of the Salvo gets blocked, the second time the rest of the salvo takes away health.

Also, what has been observed and mentioned by others before, I too have noticed that recently I died quite often without any notification in the Kill feed. No "...commited suicide" and no "...was taken down by...". Nothing at all.

Agreed for the 1st and 3rd test but on the second test sg get it, 1 bullet is ignore and the las one do health damage. Even if it feel like less than 0.5 sec there are clearly 1 bullet ignored so the gate had kick in.

[taplonaplo]

Trogdorx wrote...
Call me crazy but does anyone else remember a 'gate cooldown' effect before the patch? I don't.. From what I remember every time your shield went down, you had that invulnerability pause. But maybe I'm misremembering, it gets harder to recall what was with each passing day. I haven't gotten my kroguard back up to level 20 yet, but I know I used to tank 2 geth primes and some mooks for a good long time on gold pre-patch. I don't know if this will still be possible now that the bomber exists, but I'll try to get some tanking situations where no bombers are involved and see if I can still tank the other units as well as I used to.

The gate cooldown was always there, i popped Adrenalin Rush countless times before the 3rd ravager shot and die regardless.

Forgive me if i'm mistaken, but if it really is the DLC, can't someone who suffers from the issue just uninstall it and make a comparison vid?