697 réponses à ce sujet

[Trogdorx]

Relix28 wrote...

This supposed health/shield gate issue reminds me of the "broken" Phoenix Fitness tree. Everyone on the forums was convinced that the fitness tree was not working. Emperical testing showed otherwise.

I would like to thank Eric and the rest of the mp team for taking the time and looking into the supposed issue.

That's great, but I just played a silver with my kroguard, and there were several instances where, well after 4 seconds since my shield last went down, I just died near-instantly with no perceptible 'pause' in the damage at all.

Edit: And now that the round is over I can see that I was made host after the original host left.

Modifié par Trogdorx, 13 octobre 2012 - 04:51 .

[UpirNoir]

STedy wrote...

UpirNoir wrote...

ParanoidDrone wrote...

I realized that fairly quickly, but I went ahead with it anyway FOR SCIENCE and all that jazz.  Here's the link.

[EDIT:  I just realized that I derped hard and forgot to chop off the blankness at the end when splicing it all together.  Oh well.]

I used a Human Male Infiltrator with 0 points in Fitness and no consumables or gear, so I had 500/500 shields/health.  I started a private lobby for Glacier/Reapers/Bronze and killed Cannibals in the first wave until the announcer said there was only one left.  I then stood in the open and let it shoot me to death.

It's late here and I'm too tired to analyze my own data (pitiful, I know), but it's there for others to take a look at.

Upon looking at it a few times it seems like the following to me:

- First test: Shield Gate seems to trigger, Health Gate seems to trigger
- Second test: Shield Gate doesn't trigger (Remember it is supposed to be half a second on bronze), Health Gate can't be said due to the Cannibal's shooting pause
- Third test: Kind of hard to tell due to the firing sequence of the Cannibal, but Shield Gate might be ok, Health Gate doesn't seem to trigger

You can clearly see the differenc in test one and two. Both times the Shield gets broken in the middle of a salvo of the Cannibal: The first time, the rest of the Salvo gets blocked, the second time the rest of the salvo takes away health.

Also, what has been observed and mentioned by others before, I too have noticed that recently I died quite often without any notification in the Kill feed. No "...commited suicide" and no "...was taken down by...". Nothing at all.

Agreed for the 1st and 3rd test but on the second test sg get it, 1 bullet is ignore and the las one do health damage. Even if it feel like less than 0.5 sec there are clearly 1 bullet ignored so the gate had kick in.

That bullet is not ignored it misses (so it seems to me). But even if it hits, the gate is supposed to be .5 seconds on bronze, and that clearly is not the case.

[TheLastAwakening]

I was just playing bronze and I think I figured it out. Nothing changed, it's just the stunlock.

Yes, stunlock...I took a hit by a Scion on bronze which killed my shields and was stun locked, a collector trooper finished me off. My advice: take cover.

Modifié par TheLastAwakening, 13 octobre 2012 - 04:54 .

[Schneemann]

I'd say the problem aren't the gates, but the current AI or interpolation decreasing the timeframe to react by an noticeable amount and thus causing unexpected deaths.

[Kristen Schanche]

There's a lot of conflicting information in this thread, some people seem to think it's health gate only, some both, some that there isn't an issue and some that there is. We're still keeping an eye on all cases as we play this weekend, but as I've said before, I ran checks against this without this patch, then without the previous patch, then without the patch before that, and the gate timer was the same across the board.

We're not dismissing these concerns, but Eric spent a lot of time going through everything we changed in this patch that could have touched this and couldn't find anything, and I still can't see any evidence that these gates don't work the way they do before the patch.

[jakenou]

In a silver PUG last night, we all rage died in wave 10. I was the last to give up after using 1 medi, 1 ops pack, then 1 more medi (in quick successive order) on my Fury in a row. I wish I got a better look at what was happening with health and shield gates, but it just felt like I shouldn't have been going down like that. It happened with only a few Reaper mooks around me and 2 other teammates. We were doing that thing where one goes down, the other revives, that person goes down, etc... It seemed like we were all revived (but apparently the others went down again quickly) so I did the Fury quick escape, both zig-zagging and teleporting through walls and other barriers - I looked to be completely in the clear and I had cover all around me, but my my health was dropping out so I popped an ops pack and continued to quickly evade - still no one around me, yet I went down dead very quickly after the ops pack (on Condor - I was in the extraction area with the mako and some boxes around me providing good cover). Popped another medi, had a quick look around - no one in sight, and started to make a dash as far as possible to another side of the map. I didn't even make it 2 feet away before I went down again. Apparently a Marauder got me from some magical place.

I know this isn't entirely unusual, but it just seemed very... unbalanced to have popped so many survival consumables in such a short amount of time to still go down anyway. Even more so with things like this happening more often lately, and the fact that the other teammates were also dropping like flies (whereas everyone was playing really well the whole match).

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

@TheLastAwakening: Take cover. What wonderful advice, simp.

I play Gold and Plat. The new challenges convinced me to promote the classes and rebuild.

Bronze and Silver are far more affected by the enemy changes and the AI improvements than Gold or Plat... on Plat you expect a couple times a game of getting roflstomped by a mob and having to gel a couple times to get out of the fray, or even gel & rocket. This can happen on Gold too, especially if you stray to far from the team.

I just played a Bronze match with my lvl 9 Havoc Trooper.... I usually would have gone silver but I wanted to spam his fake charge/nova situation, so I felt bronze would be relaxing and fun. Wave 8, surrounded by a Geth Prime, two Pyro's and a bomber, NO ESCAPE. ON BRONZE.

I am not a rook... look at the manifest. This is garbage, pure and simple. I like my challenge on Gold and Plat, and really it seems mostly the same. Bronze and Silver, on the other hand, the enemies are significantly OP, especially the muthertrucking Scion with his variety of OHK/2HK implements. I expect major nerfs to the enemy for Bronze and Silver, or the devs will basically be kissing off any new players.... Bronze seems to be about like Hardcore Difficulty from the SP, damn near Insanity..... how is this a good introduction to MP?

@Chris: so, from the coding side nothing has changed.... did anyone actually test the game in the various difficulties as you all have said you have done in the past? The Collectors are OP... nothing more to say really... and the Bronze and Silver difficulties with the new AI changes and added new enemies, are broken. Yep, they are actually way too hard.... which makes no sense. I play Gold and Plat anyway, and still do except when I am leveling. Before the patch/DLC, I could often walk into a silver lobby with a level 1 player and score 1st or second on the leaderboard and use maybe 1 ops pack. Silver now is a consumable fest, like gold and plat.... which is silly, as the payoff at the end is nowhere worth the consumables spent.

Modifié par Qui-Gon Glenn, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:10 .

[Skullheart]

Just did a video

The shields gate "exists". But instead of takig no damage, our health takes all the damage instead of the shields. Just watch the video.

Gold shield/health gate test.

Modifié par Skullheart, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:23 .

[RobertM525]

Does Bioware have any statistics for deaths per match? If so, have they changed at all?

(BTW, FWIW, I haven't really noticed myself dying much more since the patch.)

[WRCousCous]

I think BW testers are legit. The 'difficulty hike' is a combination of returning, rusty players (been in some AWFUL pugs) and new additions to the geth and cerb factions. Other minor, NOTED changes (no grab pyros, etc.) as well. The two major contributors? Bombers and the "we'll stomp your face in a heartbeat" from all factions.

All of this is subjective, except from testing by BW. My comments too; however, try a non-pug against reapers. Other than the increased stomp frequency, it does't FEEL different.

[MrScottBear]

Could it be related to more of the burden being on the host when it comes to character location and damage/death? There have been numerous times where I wonder how in the hell I just died as I suddenly jump a few feet backwards as my corpse falls. I assume shots missed because I was running when in actuality they hit me because my the host had me listed in another location?

[Kenadian]

WRCousCous wrote...

I think BW testers are legit. The 'difficulty hike' is a combination of returning, rusty players (been in some AWFUL pugs) and new additions to the geth and cerb factions. Other minor, NOTED changes (no grab pyros, etc.) as well. The two major contributors? Bombers and the "we'll stomp your face in a heartbeat" from all factions.

All of this is subjective, except from testing by BW. My comments too; however, try a non-pug against reapers. Other than the increased stomp frequency, it does't FEEL different.

I was playing a match on Glacier Gold Cerb some time ago. An Atlas was the only enemy left. My shields had been taken down and I had 4 bars of health left. A single lascannon shot killed me. No health gate.

[UpirNoir]

Chris Schanche wrote...

There's a lot of conflicting information in this thread, some people seem to think it's health gate only, some both, some that there isn't an issue and some that there is. We're still keeping an eye on all cases as we play this weekend, but as I've said before, I ran checks against this without this patch, then without the previous patch, then without the patch before that, and the gate timer was the same across the board.

We're not dismissing these concerns, but Eric spent a lot of time going through everything we changed in this patch that could have touched this and couldn't find anything, and I still can't see any evidence that these gates don't work the way they do before the patch.

We greatly appreciate your continued effort on this matter. Maybe the gates are not the issue (as your research suggests) but something different. Do the rapidfire mooks maybe hit more accurate now than before ?

[Kenadian]

UpirNoir wrote...

Chris Schanche wrote...

There's a lot of conflicting information in this thread, some people seem to think it's health gate only, some both, some that there isn't an issue and some that there is. We're still keeping an eye on all cases as we play this weekend, but as I've said before, I ran checks against this without this patch, then without the previous patch, then without the patch before that, and the gate timer was the same across the board.

We're not dismissing these concerns, but Eric spent a lot of time going through everything we changed in this patch that could have touched this and couldn't find anything, and I still can't see any evidence that these gates don't work the way they do before the patch.

We greatly appreciate your continued effort on this matter. Maybe the gates are not the issue (as your research suggests) but something different. Do the rapidfire mooks maybe hit more accurate now than before ?

Or is it perhaps that rapid fire mooks somehow are getting around the gates?

[Fox-snipe]

ParanoidDrone wrote...

I realized that fairly quickly, but I went ahead with it anyway FOR SCIENCE and all that jazz.  Here's the link.

[EDIT:  I just realized that I derped hard and forgot to chop off the blankness at the end when splicing it all together.  Oh well.]

I used a Human Male Infiltrator with 0 points in Fitness and no consumables or gear, so I had 500/500 shields/health.  I started a private lobby for Glacier/Reapers/Bronze and killed Cannibals in the first wave until the announcer said there was only one left.  I then stood in the open and let it shoot me to death.

It's late here and I'm too tired to analyze my own data (pitiful, I know), but it's there for others to take a look at.

On your second attempt it seems pretty clear that Shieldgate didn't work so well.  Unfortunately the Cannibal kept pausing when you hit Healthgate instead of continuing to fire, so I'm not sure we can come to a conclusion in terms of Health.

Damn Cannibal sabotaging our SCIENCE!

[Skullheart]

Video just uploaded to youtube.

You can see that I died while the "shield gate" was still active. My shields took no damage, instead of having the 0.1 sec of inmortality my health took all the damage.

And the health gate was nonexistent.

Link.

I died in less than 0.1 secs, instead of 0.2 or more.

Modifié par Skullheart, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:29 .

[TheKillerAngel]

http://youtu.be/UjbevInT9QA?t=5m35s

The gate does exist but I'm not sure if it's being consistently applied. I get taken down to shield gate at 5:36 but die instantly at 5:58.

[Qui-Gon Glenn]

WRCousCous wrote...
The 'difficulty hike' is a combination of returning, rusty players (been in some AWFUL pugs) and new additions to the geth and cerb factions. Other minor, NOTED changes (no grab pyros, etc.) as well. The two major contributors? Bombers and the "we'll stomp your face in a heartbeat" from all factions.

All of this is subjective, except from testing by BW. My comments too; however, try a non-pug against reapers. Other than the increased stomp frequency, it does't FEEL different.

I never stopped playing, and my friends didn't either. We play together, before and after. I will value my own and their opinion far more than most.

Yes, reapers are the least different... no new enemy to completely reevaluate your tactics. You failed to mention the Collectors tho, CousCous.

Returning rusty players do not affect my solo matches. The difference is as apparent, or moreso, in a solo run. Glad you think the Bioware testers are legit... I put my faith in peddroemlz.

[Khranitel]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

check this video:

@ 2m50s you can clearly hear the shield breaking and a fraction later he's dead, on gold...before the dlc...and before the patch.

Now I understand why you keep claiming that everything is OK in virtually every topic about gates problem. Because you're just slow.
That "fraction" lasts about 0,8 - 0,9 seconds. Compare this with Glacier Gold Reapers test video.
But you wouldn't do this, don't you?

Another fresh video:
www.youtube.com/watch
22:48. Wam Bam Thank you Mom!

[The Big Palooka]

MrScottBear wrote...

Could it be related to more of the burden being on the host when it comes to character location and damage/death? There have been numerous times where I wonder how in the hell I just died as I suddenly jump a few feet backwards as my corpse falls. I assume shots missed because I was running when in actuality they hit me because my the host had me listed in another location?

This, seriously.  How exactly was the Vanguard glitch fixed?  Was it something specific to the Biotic Charge power or was the host/client interaction changed in general?  How was the kill-cam fixed?  Could either of these changes be responsible for changing our potential reaction time between taking damage and death?

Modifié par The Big Palooka, 13 octobre 2012 - 05:39 .

[Kenadian]

Skullheart wrote...

Video just uploaded to youtube.

You can see that I died while the "shield gate" was still active. My shields took no damage, instead of having the 0.1 sec of inmortality my health took all the damage.

And the health gate was nonexistent.

Link.

I died in less than 0.1 secs, instead of 0.2 or more.

To be honest, test should have been done with a single Trooper left.

[Skullheart]

A single trooper burst couldn't prove that the 0.1 seconds of inmortality is there. I needed at least 2 trooper to sustain damage over time.

[MP-Ryan]

Kenadian wrote...

Or is it perhaps that rapid fire mooks somehow are getting around the gates?

This is my bet. I'm not dying to bosses, I'm getting beaten down by troopers, cannibals, mauraders etc.  As a kroguard.

SOMETHING has changed since the patch/DLC which is resulting in many more player deaths than pre-patch.  Maybe it's not the gates, but there is no question that experienced players are noticing this too.

[alec1109]

Skullheart wrote...

Video just uploaded to youtube.

You can see that I died while the "shield gate" was still active. My shields took no damage, instead of having the 0.1 sec of inmortality my health took all the damage.

And the health gate was nonexistent.

Link.

I died in less than 0.1 secs, instead of 0.2 or more.

nice video, exactly what I am having.

[Eric Fagnan]

EvanKester wrote...

Brutes have always hit through shield gate, since their melee swipe can actually hit multiple times. There's nothing new about that.

I would have to double check when I'm back in the office but I believe Brutes do hit multiple times or else they wouldn't be much of a threat.