697 réponses à ce sujet

[Snicket]

Heldarion wrote...

Just imagine - none of this would occur if players didn't actually have to host the games themselves...

Yeah I am not a fan of player hosted matches. It always seems to be a mess. 

[Reizo Ryuu]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

check this video:

@ 2m50s you can clearly hear the shield breaking and a fraction later he's dead, on gold...before the dlc...and before the patch.

I'm just going to keep quoting myself for everyone that is convinced it wasn't always like this before.

[Anagorrax]

cgj wrote...

vanguard fix merely changed calculation for biotic charge, that is all
non-host always made strafing and dodges less effective

Can you show how this is worked out then? And can you explain the problems post patch/post dlcThat are going on? Or are we all just going mad? You seem to have some idea what is going on, well enlighten us simple minded people who can merely only state that we have noticed a change and not for the better.

Modifié par Anagorrax, 13 octobre 2012 - 10:49 .

[Snicket]

cgj wrote...

i'm pretty sure the poor devs are headbanging the walls right now

snap ou of it people, nothing changed
you posting videos will never be as accurate as devs tests either (not even remotely close) and so far all your vids failed to prove anything

whatever is making you feel that way now, it lies somewhere in the patch note or/and in the DLC's additions

You are like the one person aboard the Titanic screaming at everyone who is climbing into the life boats.

"Aww co'mon guys! Its just a little water! The ship was designed to do this! Now lets go back inside and finish dinner, its frezzing out here." 

[NewStrings]

I, too, have noticed that I'm going down like a stone whenever an enemy so much as breathes on me. Everyone has completely changed their play style! Normally we spread out a bit, each one covering a portion of the arena, snipers falling back, berserkers going forward. Now everybody is clustering together because we're all dying every twenty seconds. I mean, pretty much every game over the last two days has been two people shooting, one person dead, one person reviving... and rotate for the rest of the game.

[Anagorrax]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

check this video:

@ 2m50s you can clearly hear the shield breaking and a fraction later he's dead, on gold...before the dlc...and before the patch.

I'm just going to keep quoting myself for everyone that is convinced it wasn't always like this before.

If you look you'll see his shields are already dead. 
Between 02.47 and 02:50 his shields go down. His Shield is gone at 02:51 and his health is gone by 02:52-02:53.
Given that he was being shot up by at least 2 cannibals and he took no cover after losing his shields this seems normal. The issue is people biging shot down in 1 go. Health and shields going at more or less the same time.

Modifié par Anagorrax, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:00 .

[Reizo Ryuu]

Anagorrax wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

check this video:

@ 2m50s you can clearly hear the shield breaking and a fraction later he's dead, on gold...before the dlc...and before the patch.

I'm just going to keep quoting myself for everyone that is convinced it wasn't always like this before.

If you look you'll see his shields are already dead.

Uhh what? The staff has already stated that the shield indicator is deceiving and a much better indicator is the shield breaking sound.
Also are you ignoring that the cannibals didn't care about his health gate just like the other video people are still using as proof?
Yeah...no, rapid-fire deaths were always in the game, shield/healthgate only protects you from 1 giant hit; if you thought that 0.1 seconds is going to help you against rapid-fire, well then you are delusional.

Modifié par Reizo Ryuu, 13 octobre 2012 - 10:57 .

[cgj]

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

check this video:

@ 2m50s you can clearly hear the shield breaking and a fraction later he's dead, on gold...before the dlc...and before the patch.

I'm just going to keep quoting myself for everyone that is convinced it wasn't always like this before.

If you look you'll see his shields are already dead.

Uhh what? The staff has already stated that the shield indicator is deceiving and a much better indicator is the shield breaking sound.
Also are you ignoring that the cannibals didn't care about his health gate just like the other video people are still using as proof?
Yeah...no, rapid-fire deaths were always in the game, shield/healthgate only protects you from 1 giant hit; if you thought that 0.1 seconds is going to help you against rapid-fire, well then you are delusional.

^this

[Anagorrax]

ok to make it clearer why not take the video you listed and the other the shows the guy getting insta-jibbed and isolate the sounds so we can actually hear the sounds.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

One must ask:

If this is an issue that apparently dozens of players are having....

....And the devs say everything is functioning as intended....

....Then what does that imply?

[cgj]

Snicket wrote...

cgj wrote...

i'm pretty sure the poor devs are headbanging the walls right now

snap ou of it people, nothing changed
you posting videos will never be as accurate as devs tests either (not even remotely close) and so far all your vids failed to prove anything

whatever is making you feel that way now, it lies somewhere in the patch note or/and in the DLC's additions

You are like the one person aboard the Titanic screaming at everyone who is climbing into the life boats.

"Aww co'mon guys! Its just a little water! The ship was designed to do this! Now lets go back inside and finish dinner, its frezzing out here." 

no i am not, that would be ignoring the evidence, which is what you people are doing
i acknowledged the problem even if i'm not affected by it, i'm just telling you you're not looking at the right spot and aren't going to find the anwser with shield/health gate

[UpirNoir]

OK I am able to play right now (was able to connect) and here a couple of observations from maybe 10 games played.
The amount of health doesn't really seem to matter, because once your shield breaks, I Krogan feels a squishy as Geth
My Batarian Soldier with 1275 Points of Health and 35% dmg reduction from Blade Armor got oneshot by a Scion after my shield was broken from a different source (Full health to death --> one shot). Isn't that what the health gate is supposed to prevent ?
MY Krogan Sentinel with 40% dmg reduction from Tech Armor, over 1000 health, an additional 20% dmg reduction becaus he was in full rage got killed by a single shot from a nemesis (I had about half health left before)
My N7 Destroyer get killed by a single Assault Trooper in no time after the shields were gone.
All of this happened on silver.
So maybe the gates are not the real issue/only part of it, but the fact that Health gets melted away at an absurdly fast rate....

Edit: Overall, the gates just seemed to be inconsistent. Sometimes they appeared to work, and other times they didn't. And again I observed, that people (including me) died much more and faster than before.

Edit 2: I also again noticed that I (and others) got killed a few times, without any notice in the kill feed. And sometimes my Shields would go down without me seeing anything hit me. The latter is something i noticed after the patch, before the DLC, I did make a thread about that.

Also, my KroSent got killed through/over (?) low cover by Assault troopers. Was that the same before ?

On a side note:
There are few things more annoying than a Shadow whose only strategy is spamming Electric Slash !!

Modifié par UpirNoir, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:39 .

[cgj]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

One must ask:

If this is an issue that apparently dozens of players are having....

....And the devs say everything is functioning as intended....

....Then what does that imply?

that the problem is somewhere else, and since it's a post patch/dlc issue
it probably lies within a combination of different changes the patch and dlc brought to the table

[JaimasOfRaxis]

cgj wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

One must ask:

If this is an issue that apparently dozens of players are having....

....And the devs say everything is functioning as intended....

....Then what does that imply?

that the problem is somewhere else, and since it's a post patch/dlc issue
it probably lies within a combination of different changes the patch and dlc brought to the table

The alternative is that this was an intentional fix and we're simply not being told the full story, but I'd like to think that goodly Eric and Fagnan are above such a noisesome little bit of nonsense. It's neither one's style, to put it simply.

I pray that your explanation, noble cgj, is the correct one, for all our sakes.

[Cyberfrog81]

Pretty sure I've seen what people are talking about. E.g. bronze, shield breaks, but no 0.5s immunity. Death may follow.

On the other hand, I just played a few Gold games against Reapers. Both gates were working normally for me, I'm sure of that.

Modifié par Cyberfrog81, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:38 .

[Nitrocuban]

Hm, after the balance change that unlocked elemental explosions the game got a lot easier on paper.
Maybe BW wanted to adjust that a little ...

[Anagorrax]

cgj wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

Reizo Ryuu wrote...

check this video:

@ 2m50s you can clearly hear the shield breaking and a fraction later he's dead, on gold...before the dlc...and before the patch.

I'm just going to keep quoting myself for everyone that is convinced it wasn't always like this before.

If you look you'll see his shields are already dead.

Uhh what? The staff has already stated that the shield indicator is deceiving and a much better indicator is the shield breaking sound.
Also are you ignoring that the cannibals didn't care about his health gate just like the other video people are still using as proof?
Yeah...no, rapid-fire deaths were always in the game, shield/healthgate only protects you from 1 giant hit; if you thought that 0.1 seconds is going to help you against rapid-fire, well then you are delusional.

^this

Ok I've listened to this about 20 times now and I cannot hear this shield break sound over the guy talking. Can you find a better example? Also I don't understand why you are getting your pants in a knot, 4 seconds seems to match the time it took for me to be taken out vs reapers on gold.

The animation my not be an exact representation of shields going down but there is a difference between someone hosting a game and losing your shields and having time time to try and dive for cover (yes I know he was a turian) and  another self hosted game and both health and shields dissapearing at the same time. Maybe its down to the performance of the machine its played on and sure its not a huge difference but there is a percieved difference and that is what people are seeing in those videos.

Personally I'm now more inclined to believe there is a host/player laag issue that has in someway been exacerbated by the recent patch/dlc and is causing people to get smashed before they really have the time to react as they used to.

EDIT. Just to clarify The Video Reizo Ryuu linked www.youtube.com/watch

and the video linked earlier in the thread 


Going purely on the Animations of Health and shields dropping there is roughly a 2.5 second percieved difference. I suspect the Sentinal may may well have had his tech armour specced for damage resistance which may also explane the disparity.

Modifié par Anagorrax, 13 octobre 2012 - 11:27 .

[JaimasOfRaxis]

The new "you die instantly if your health is exposed" mechanic is blatantly obvious to anyone who either:

* Played Vorcha
* Played Krogans
* Played Batarians
* Played Turians

These guys were the most durable of the set. You played them specifically BECAUSE of this durability; a Kroguard, Kroldier, or Krosent, kitted out, could survive anything gold and beyond could throw at them, and the combination of your high shield+health and DR meant you reliably survived many battlefield situations. Batarians were no less durable after buffs, and Vorcha were entirely centered around the mechanic of regenerating health based on how quickly you dropped enemies.

Nowadays, DR is borderline-meaningless for health. The second your shields are down, any enemy - a Marauder, a cannibal or two, a Geth Trooper, an uppity Cerberus Trooper - all can kill you in only 1 or 2 bursts the second your health is vulnerable, DR and sheer HP level notwithstanding. We're at the point where I've stopped seeing defensive builds entirely, because it doesn't reliably add enough survivability to overshadow the myriad benefits of going for raw offense.

On the plus side, this has caused variation of tactics. On the downside, it means that Fitness, on many skill trees, just got made a whole lot worse, and group survivability has nosedived.

This is a major issue. The entire reason to play durable races is halfway to becoming a moot point now, since Health increasingly does not matter. Whilst we do not know the cause yet, the commonalities players are reporting, even with variance for platform, are all-too-similar.

Something, clearly, is wrong.

[UpirNoir]

Anagorrax wrote...

Personally I'm now more inclined to believe there is a host/player laag issue that has in someway been exacerbated by the recent patch/dlc and is causing people to get smashed before they really have the time to react as they used to.

The thing is, people observe the appearant change on host as well. There are a lot videos showing the same things on host.

[Trogdorx]

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

cgj wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

One must ask:

If this is an issue that apparently dozens of players are having....

....And the devs say everything is functioning as intended....

....Then what does that imply?

that the problem is somewhere else, and since it's a post patch/dlc issue
it probably lies within a combination of different changes the patch and dlc brought to the table

The alternative is that this was an intentional fix and we're simply not being told the full story, but I'd like to think that goodly Eric and Fagnan are above such a noisesome little bit of nonsense. It's neither one's style, to put it simply.

I pray that your explanation, noble cgj, is the correct one, for all our sakes.

They've already stated they aren't messing with us.

But they've also stated that they can't find a problem. I've had many instances just in the last few hours where my shield has been up, maybe at 25% or something, and then all of a sudden I'll take a ton of damage with no shield gate pause and I'll just go down.

[Anagorrax]

UpirNoir wrote...

Anagorrax wrote...

Personally I'm now more inclined to believe there is a host/player laag issue that has in someway been exacerbated by the recent patch/dlc and is causing people to get smashed before they really have the time to react as they used to.

The thing is, people observe the appearant change on host as well. There are a lot videos showing the same things on host.

Perhaps, and I'm not dismissing the issue but I've hosted gold with my kroguard with no gear and get taken down fast. I'll try again in the best shield gear I've got and see what happens but I think so far running straight in to a group of mobs on gold is gonna get you whacked in seconds if you aren't using appropriate gear/spec. I've mostly played silver since the patch and been "instakilled " plenty of timed when I shouldn't have but thats been with another hosting the game.

[cgj]

Trogdorx wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

cgj wrote...

JaimasOfRaxis wrote...

One must ask:

If this is an issue that apparently dozens of players are having....

....And the devs say everything is functioning as intended....

....Then what does that imply?

that the problem is somewhere else, and since it's a post patch/dlc issue
it probably lies within a combination of different changes the patch and dlc brought to the table

The alternative is that this was an intentional fix and we're simply not being told the full story, but I'd like to think that goodly Eric and Fagnan are above such a noisesome little bit of nonsense. It's neither one's style, to put it simply.

I pray that your explanation, noble cgj, is the correct one, for all our sakes.

They've already stated they aren't messing with us.

But they've also stated that they can't find a problem. I've had many instances just in the last few hours where my shield has been up, maybe at 25% or something, and then all of a sudden I'll take a ton of damage with no shield gate pause and I'll just go down.

just sink in your mind that there is NO pause even Bronze is 0.5s


gold is 0.1s .......... 100ms, that is something a human being playing a game cannot measure, even if you were not playing a game and were fully focused on measuring, you couldn't grasp the duration of 0.1s

+ there are many factors you didn't say in your post , like was the shield gate on cooldown, what character were you, what dificulty ecetera

[FormingWhale]

I find myself dying more often to lower class enemies than I use to but can't say I've noticed a shield/health gate change. I think its just that they come at you more aggressively and it's catching us by surprise. Only thing bugging me is the countless deaths from apparently nothing as the kill feed doesn't register me being downed by anything

[elooocin]

UpirNoir wrote...

MP-Ryan wrote...

I do hope the devs are continuing to investigate. I've died with a freaking Kroguard lately, and that's just unacceptable. In all seriousness, though, enemies with fully-automatic weapons are mysteriously downing all of us at unprecedented rates, and the only thing that seems to make sense is that health and shield gates are not working properly in some circumstances.

My suspicion is that the gates work just fine for single shot weapons (Nemesis, Ravager etc) but with rapidfire mooks something is just off

I agree.  Anything with rapid fire takes so many down instantly these days.

[Beever_Boy]

Something has changed. I'm not whining about it being more difficult, I actually am kind of enjoying it. But, the enemies are definitely more aggressive, and possibly more accurate. The proof was shown to me today, as I haven't been insta-killed once all day. I've been caught numerous times, but EVERY time it happened, I was killed by other enemies before instant death took effect. I know people claim the game is harder after every patch/dlc, but something IS different, because that has NEVER happened to me before this frequently (being saved from death by being taken down).