697 réponses à ce sujet

[bclagge]

Fox-snipe wrote...

bclagge wrote...

So IF a real problem actually exists, I suspect that's it's only for a small percentage of those complaining and that the rest are people who can't handle the dynamic of the new units and are suffering from mass hysteria - eager to jump on some explanation as to why they're having a bad day.

Except there are those of us that first started to see strange things happening immediately after the patch and before the DLC.

Everyone keeps blaming Bioware for the DLC/characters making things more difficult but that's a red herring.  None of the lowest of the troops were changed in any faction and its those peons that seem to be giving us grief lately.

The Collectors (Dragoons, Bombers) are powerful, that's true.  But that has little to do with the mysterious deaths we've been seeing.  Admittedly it does muddy the waters, which is unfortunate.

I'm really not trying to stir the pot, so I won't post again without a truly compelling reason, but I have an explanation for that as well.  Confirmation bias.  New update takes place --> People die unexpectedly as they always have ---> Hypothesis formed that the update had ninja-buffs ---> Now any unexpected death is evidence that there was a ninja-buff ---> Refuting evidence is disregarded.

I would honestly bet $50 on that.

[Aaron360]

Well I just had the opportunity to host 3 Gold/Cerberus matches with 3 players I've meshed very well with in the past, we had a discussion about it in the lobby pre-game and all 4 of us commented on the insane amount of consumables used in the past few days. 1st game we used our Biotic gods as we have in the past, 2 Justicars, 1 AA and 1 Fury and planned to handle Cerberus as we have before. The dragoons are nothing when reaved/DC, a bubble is popped, explosions, and reaved again for another explosion, especially with 2 justicar bubbles being used spamming reave, toss in warp and dark channel and AF and BOOM! The problem is not with those nuissance whipping bastards as some have claimed, it's taking shots from mooks that kill you, when in the past you could just walk it off, especially using a Justicar with reave set up for max damage protection and Shield Booster V.

The next 2 games were a mix of Demolishers, Destroyers and Paladins and same thing, the 4 of us used between 3 and 4 medigels each, when in the past, atleast those of us who used destroyers, wouldn't use a single 1. We didn't change playstyles, a few dragoons do not change things(unless they break the line and get inbetween you and a revive fest begins). We never allowed them to get 2 close so they never became a nuissance, but we still went down several times each from either super accurate and buffed guardians/troopers/centurions or the health/shield gates are not functioning, whatever the cause, something is very wrong. My Destroyer maxed for fitness/shields using devastator mode with the 40% boost, plus shield booster V and cyclonic III should not be going down in 2 seconds from anything on gold. I made sure no atlas rockets hit me and ate away at my health. I hate those things but admittedly, the new rockets do keep me more aware so right now they are very manageable.

One of the guys wanted to host a 4th game to see if it changed results for him, so we obliged. We, or should I say, he, still went down more in 1 match than I've seen him die in 3 or 4 games combined in the past, so it's not a lag issue.

The 1 character I am best with lately is my asari vanguard, I'm charging constantly to keep barriers up and tossing nades religiously to keep enemies staggered so those shots don't eat my health instantly. Whatever is going on, I sure would like an explanation

Modifié par Aaron360, 14 octobre 2012 - 02:31 .

[121210Olivia]

Refutes are meaningless when there is overwhelming evidence to prove the contrary-- which, in this case, is players becoming casualties alarmingly faster than they did prior to DLC.

Players are intrinsically aware of (1) their abilities and (2) how much they depend on consumables.
Only an arrogant idiot, or a lying conniving corporate would have the audacity to even attempt refuting the aforementioned.

In some ways, sadly, that is exactly what is happening here. Perhaps try looking at it from this perspective: what is the most effective way of prolonging the life of the new DLC, equipment, gear etc.? Simple. Change the game mechanic so it is more difficult to acquire them. How? Lower the chances of success (i.e., ensure less games payout by killing of player characters due to an overall increase in difficulty).

Evidence suggests this is what is taking place. Don't get me wrong-- I very much like ME3 MP ( I should do, I've played it exclusively for over 700 hours). However, Post DLC the simple fact remains that the game has indeed, become more difficult.

[Fox-snipe]

bclagge wrote...

I'm really not trying to stir the pot, so I won't post again without a truly compelling reason, but I have an explanation for that as well.  Confirmation bias.  New update takes place --> People die unexpectedly as they always have ---> Hypothesis formed that the update had ninja-buffs ---> Now any unexpected death is evidence that there was a ninja-buff ---> Refuting evidence is disregarded.

I would honestly bet $50 on that.

I've always been against those claims/threads, in part because I never had issues with prior patches/DLC, so I'd hope I'm at least not being biased (and I mean truly, "internally" not biased to myself, not just trying to appear as though I can speak with authority).

It's not that I'm claiming there were hidden buffs, I just think the patch may have inadvertently broken something.  No conspiracy, no foul play/"OMGZ MONIES," something just feels off.  The fact it's such a minor thing as the gates, health, etc. makes this whole thing aggrivating, as does the intermittency of it all.

It's like the stupid missing semi-colon in program code that kicks out the random syntax error, thus you wind up resorting to recoding an entire block of code.  Whether the actual cause is determined & fixed, or Bioware determines things truely are working as-is (or things were actually broken pre-patch), I hope some form of conclusion can be drawn.

It would be really interesting to see if (non-Volus) players have been using more consumables in the past two weeks against Reapers.  One would think that'd be true if a "problem" does exist, and I can say for certain there are streams of matches where my use is way higher than ordinary, but seeing the statistics would at least soften the blow somewhat. 

Maybe check Cerberus as well; I honestly believe the Dragoon hasn't made that much of a difference.

[JaimasOfRaxis]

An interesting corollary is that the apparent change to health has made Pyros considerably more dangerous.

[Reizo Ryuu]

UpirNoir wrote...

There you go
The first test, everything seems fine, but the second is interesting, because there is clearly no .5 second break between shield getting broken and health taking damage

No, on these games I played today I  was not hosting

Edit: Ninja'd

Seems to be working just fine to me, at the second test he gets hit 4 times after the shield breaks, but only the 4th hit actually does any damage, same thing happens at the third test when he reaches healthgate: the cannibal manages to hit him 3 times at health gate and it does no damage.

I think you are underestimating how fast 500ms actually is.

Modifié par Reizo Ryuu, 14 octobre 2012 - 03:35 .

[Urbynwyldcat]

I love retaliation, but since the dlc I have, on multiple occasions, lost my full shields and health instantly and reduced to tapping A until revived. By instantly I mean that 1 second I'm running along, a split second later I'm down with no intervening attack ever having took place. Is this what everyone is talking about with these 'health gates' ?

[KiraTsukasa]

If it's not shield/health gate, there is SOMETHING going on. I'm not the best player in the world, but I could handle silver without going down too many times before the patch/DLC, but now I'm dropping left and right against all factions. I'm going to be very disappointed if I'm stuck in bronze forever because even silver is a nightmare.

[PsychoXR-20]

Here's one more anecdote to add to what I am sure is a very large collection.

I was playing Reaper gold as a Turian Ghost. I had probably about half shields and very low health. I was hit by a Brute and died. Now, if shield gate were indeed working properly I should have gone invulnerable when my shields broke, then again when my health was low on health, all in all .2 seconds. While .2 seems like a very small number it is most certainly noticeable, but I was taken down from half shields to dead instantly. Even if I were hit multiple times with low damage from the Brute, and even if the UI is a bit deceiving, I should not have died in that situation.

There is most definitely something up, because I am dying much faster (even in silver) now than I was (in gold) before the patch.

EDIT: I should add I was not the host and there was some noticeable lag during the match.

Modifié par PsychoXR-20, 14 octobre 2012 - 04:31 .

[Aaron360]

PsychoXR-20 wrote...

Here's one more anecdote to add to what I am sure is a very large collection.

I was playing Reaper gold as a Turian Ghost. I had probably about half shields and very low health. I was hit by a Brute and died. Now, if shield gate were indeed working properly I should have gone invulnerable when my shields broke, then again when my health was low on health, all in all .2 seconds. While .2 seems like a very small number it is most certainly noticeable, but I was taken down from half shields to dead instantly. Even if I were hit multiple times with low damage from the Brute, and even if the UI is a bit deceiving, I should not have died in that situation.

There is most definitely something up, because I am dying much faster (even in silver) now than I was (in gold) before the patch.

The same happened to me lastnight, but I was using my Paladin(I was host and playing Gold). No other enemies on the side of the map with me, just the brute, he swiped at me and I died, no stagger, just death. Anyone who says this happened pre-last weeks DLC is dillusional and why they think most of the community is simply imagining this, is beyond me Pay attention to these reports Bioware, find out what it is and let us know. Just by doing that you'll put our minds at ease knowing it's being worked on. Right now, no faction is any fun for me on gold/platinum as it was before. I'm just waiting for the next time I drop from a single hit, which happends far too frequently.

Modifié par Aaron360, 14 octobre 2012 - 04:27 .

[Delta_V2]

PsychoXR-20 wrote...

Here's one more anecdote to add to what I am sure is a very large collection.

I was playing Reaper gold as a Turian Ghost. I had probably about half shields and very low health. I was hit by a Brute and died. Now, if shield gate were indeed working properly I should have gone invulnerable when my shields broke, then again when my health was low on health, all in all .2 seconds. While .2 seems like a very small number it is most certainly noticeable, but I was taken down from half shields to dead instantly. Even if I were hit multiple times with low damage from the Brute, and even if the UI is a bit deceiving, I should not have died in that situation.

There is most definitely something up, because I am dying much faster (even in silver) now than I was (in gold) before the patch.

EDIT: I should add I was not the host and there was some noticeable lag during the match.

Brutes aren't the best enemies to go off of, since their charge has always been weird like that.  It has always been able to take me from full shileds straight to health-gate, even on Silver, for as long as I've been playing.  So if you were at half shields and low health, it wouldn't suprise me that it could kill you.

[STedy]

Hint of explanation for the brute earllier in this thread.

Eric Fagnan wrote...

EvanKester wrote...

Brutes have always hit through shield gate, since their melee swipe can actually hit multiple times. There's nothing new about that.

I would have to double check when I'm back in the office but I believe Brutes do hit multiple times or else they wouldn't be much of a threat.

Thanks Chris and Eric for taking the time to answers ppl here, for my part it's realy appreciated.

Modifié par STedy, 14 octobre 2012 - 05:44 .

[drmoose00]

UpirNoir wrote...

Edit 2: I also again noticed that I (and others) got killed a few times, without any notice in the kill feed. And sometimes my Shields would go down without me seeing anything hit me. The latter is something i noticed after the patch, before the DLC, I did make a thread about  !!

Weird i have noticed the former as well...not sure it means anything, but...

On another note, as someone else noted, some, including devs, are saying everything is working as intended....if that is the case, then i have to admit to myself it is prob time to move on, becuase as intended is not really as much fun anymore...

[Royvios]

Delta_V2 wrote...

PsychoXR-20 wrote...

Here's one more anecdote to add to what I am sure is a very large collection.

I was playing Reaper gold as a Turian Ghost. I had probably about half shields and very low health. I was hit by a Brute and died. Now, if shield gate were indeed working properly I should have gone invulnerable when my shields broke, then again when my health was low on health, all in all .2 seconds. While .2 seems like a very small number it is most certainly noticeable, but I was taken down from half shields to dead instantly. Even if I were hit multiple times with low damage from the Brute, and even if the UI is a bit deceiving, I should not have died in that situation.

There is most definitely something up, because I am dying much faster (even in silver) now than I was (in gold) before the patch.

EDIT: I should add I was not the host and there was some noticeable lag during the match.

Brutes aren't the best enemies to go off of, since their charge has always been weird like that.  It has always been able to take me from full shileds straight to health-gate, even on Silver, for as long as I've been playing.  So if you were at half shields and low health, it wouldn't suprise me that it could kill you.

Aren't a Brute's melee swipes actually two or three consecutive hits in one animation? That would definitely be a valid explanation.

[the slynx]

Hm. Played a match where everything felt normal. The next one, I seemed to be going down very quickly under any sort of enemy fire. I still think that there's a disconnect between the damage the player is actually taking and the damage they're being shown. I know many people are having this problem as host (as the devs keep pointing out), but I still wonder if there isn't a lag factor in there in other cases. Regardless, I've played this game a fair deal and I think I can usually predict how damage will affect my characters - but not recently. I really noticed this on my Batarian soldier.

BioWare, please look at the telemetry data for non-Collector enemies (and non-Volus players) over a few weeks before the DLC and a few days after. Have the rates of players going down and the rates of durability consumable use increased in those days? I know you guys aren't seeing anything to suggest a change in your tests, but something feels wrong to a lot of players. Maybe the game is just that much harder with Dragoons and functional Geth Drones, and the telemetry data suggests we're over-reacting - or maybe consumable use is disproportionately high and there's something your tests aren't catching.

[Captain Funky Blimp]

Oh sweet Jesus please fix it.

[VirDeBello]

Thanks for clarity on the issue and for not feeding the noobs. Fact of the matter is 5$ wireless routers and Walmart internet doesn't cut it anymore. I know I'm not contributing but neither are the people that say "I'm dying alot, fix it Bioware!" How about saying your platform and whether you were host or not for starters.

[koschwarz74]

after patch and dlc i played and noticed the quick deaths. i checked BSN and i read about same issues. i commented about it and followed these threads. watching linked videos, i watched closely this issue in my yesterday evening games. it's definitely looks like this: shield gate may work but after the shield gone, health drop like it wasn't there at all, in a blink of an eye. devs should investigate in that directon. i'm more and more confinced the issue is in there somewhere.

[dumdum2]

Had a Praetorian shoot his laser beam at me and one of my friends in a gold match. We both had full shields and health and died instantly from the first beam, usually it only takes away the shields but this time we both died as soon as the beam hit us.

First match I ever played after the patch was a Platinum Giant Cerberus. Went to the ladder that is left on the extraction, saw an Assault Trooper coming up and I had my GI, he just took one look at me and I died in like 0.1 second (I was hosting) before I even had a chance to react or even shoot my weapon. Before the patch I almost never used more than 1-2 medigels per gold/platinum match, but now I am using up a lot more of them (I never wait to be revived). The case with the Assault Trooper can not be explained by anything in the opening post except that the shield/health gate was just not working, Trooper killed me straight out in one burst with his Hornet, no invulnerability whatsoever.

EDIT: Have to mention that the Assault Trooper was the first enemy of the first wave in the match, so there could have been nothing in the game that would have canceled my invulnerability window,

Modifié par dumdum2, 14 octobre 2012 - 06:49 .

[wotmaniac]

I think the collectors are the problem. They seem to ignore damage reduction\\or have insane dmg. I've noticed that I die insanely fast from even a bit of a collector trooper on silver. A burst from his rifle (wish we had this Collecter rifle instead of the crap we have) drops a Destroyer's shields like bam. and 2 secs later you're dead. Either his rof is so fast gates are rendered useless, or they just ignore them.
Also Slayer has immunity frames when melee attacking. Collectors seemingly ignored this and a captain dropped me while I was meleeing another.

[AngryBobH]

wotmaniac wrote...

I think the collectors are the problem. They seem to ignore damage reductionor have insane dmg. I've noticed that I die insanely fast from even a bit of a collector trooper on silver. A burst from his rifle (wish we had this Collecter rifle instead of the crap we have) drops a Destroyer's shields like bam. and 2 secs later you're dead. Either his rof is so fast gates are rendered useless, or they just ignore them.
Also Slayer has immunity frames when melee attacking. Collectors seemingly ignored this and a captain dropped me while I was meleeing another.

There might be something to that. I just witnessed several collector shots from multiple enemies(scion included) that passed right through walls and thick low cover. I wish I had that recorded. Either they are using AP/drill ammo XX or there is a glitch there.

It seems to me that other enemies are shooting through cover from across the map with 100% accuracy just not as much as the Collectors.

My take on the health/shield gate issue is the gate reset timer was bugged and now its not. I used to be able to go down to shield gate, take cover, and then start shooting as soon as a sliver of shields came back. Next hit (in less than 4 seconds) would hit shield gate again. This was true for me 90% of the time. I figured the 10% was a glitch. It seems that the 10% was what was intended. This was most notable with an AR user, since you have to be out of cover a lot to do any real damage.

Gate timer combined with enemy cover penetration would make the gates seem broken.

[RecoonHoodie]

Me and my friends play alot this game, however we mostly played and still play reapers and cerberus mostly, so last night we decided to go a little bit for the blood pack challenge and got ourselfs a vorcha. Yeah yeah, the bastards that can survive a freaking nuclear explosion. We were going down a LOT. I feel there are some issues, IMO the shield gate is working fine, however there is something wrong with the health gates.

[hellgate49698]

Something is happening as far as why enemies are taking down exposed players much quicker then before.

However I don't think it's a shield gate issue as much as multiple enemies firing at your character at the same time.

So why is this happening? Stomping is the answer. All the enemy facations are now program to home in on fallen characters to go for the kill, even if they are in the middle of fighting someone else.

Because of this, even if you revive right away, your character is now being targeted by all the enemies on the field. Which then all shoot at your character at the same time... resulting in instant death and healthing being chewed up like it doesn't exist.

That's got to be the answer. Before, enemies weren't program to stomp on characters that quickly, hence the enemies were futher away, but now they're right next to you to try for finishing them. They also couldn't do as much damage to your characters, because the second you went down, enemies priority change to hunting down the other players.

However, now because of the stomp machanic their objective is to kill down players as quickly as possible, hence the lack of health bar when you try to revive.

[capn233]

Thank you for the information Bioware team.

[Princess Rolf]

Chris Schanche wrote...

Deaths by suicide generally occur when the thing that killed a player was generated by a source that's no longer available. An example of this would be an Atlas fires a rocket, before the rocket connects with the player, the Atlas is destroyed. The rocket then connects and scores a kill. That can trigger a 'suicide' death in the ticker.

As for the main thrust of the thread, I'm certainly planning to dedicate most of my weekend to multiplayer, I gots me some challenges to get, so I'll be keeping an eye out as well for odd behavior. It's certainly true that live play can find issues that testing doesn't, but that said right now I'm still pretty confident in the tests we've run, and I don't see anything that indicates that the behavior is any different then it's always been. I'm very curious to find out what it is that's causing this perception though.

Then I´ve become a worse player, since the patch/DLC. Haven´t dide this much since the Demo. :/ Usually I us maybe one Revive/Gold run, but now I use 4 or 5.... Hmmmmm.... Nothing´s changed.... Right...